Album Rating: 5.0

Conceptually, sure it's similar. Structurally, maybe but how many albums follow this basic kind of structure? By that standard, every other album ever made is derivative. Musically? Wtf no. So much no

There is so much wrong with that post [altertide's that is]. It's not even about a difference of opinion, some of it is just factually wrong.

"Thought I oughta bare my naked feelings,
Thought I oughta tear the curtain down."

I've said it before but this really does some up the difference between this and The Wall in terms of how much more personal this is. The curtain being a metaphorical one representing the fictional story that concealed his emotions somewhat on The Wall.

How do you know the curtain is about emotions being concealed on The Wall? Did Waters said so in an interview or what? I didn't say The Wall was complete 100% truth, it's obvious it wasn't (for example Pink in nazi uniform? ordering to shoot the audience? I don't think Waters ever did that). But the themes involved, the loss of father due to war, the relationship with women, mother problem, disgust with PF arena shows, I don't think that's all just pulled out of thin air.

But all right, let's assume you're right about that quote. How does it automatically make The Final Cut more sincere? For me it looks like he admits that he didn't open his heart on The Wall, but he doesn't seem to do it on The Final Cut either, especially with songs like "Paranoid Eyes", "Two Suns in the Sunset" etc. which are in no way related to Waters. (though t/t is of course very personal).

Now I don't say your interpretation is wrong for sure, but how do you know it's 100% true? If you do, then please tell me how. And if you don't, then don't say I'm "factually" wrong, but admit that it's a matter of opinion.

Album Rating: 4.2

The Wall is an album about fictional events based on real themes



The Final Cut is about real events based on real themes



The majority of songs on this are super personal and relating to either Waters or his father (t/t, Gunner's Dream, Hero's Return, Post War Dream, Fletcher Memorial Home) and even the ones that aren't are extrapolations of those themes and still very sincere (like Paranoid Eyes).

That's my interpretation, or rather I'm using it as a metaphor to show the obvious difference between this and The Wall.

That part of my post was unrelated to me saying parts of your post are wrong where I was more referring to stuff like this; "same atmospheric style with obligatory guitar solos in every second song".

But yeah it isn't my opinion that Waters was hiding behind a fictional story on The Wall, that is simply how it is. The Final Cut is stripped back to raw emotion, for better or worse depending on your opinion of the album.

Firstly, when I was saying "obligatory guitar solos in every second song" I was using a hyperbole, however, now that I think of it, of the 9 songs (I'm excluding intro and interludes), 4 have guitar solos and 2 have sax solos, so I wasn't far from truth at all. But my main point was that The Final Cut is, if not a copy of The Wall, then at best a combination of PF previous styles (I hope we're not disagreeing here). I'd describe it as "The Wall meets Animals" myself. Hence the word "derivative".

Secondly, I consider music most personal when it's a confession rather than an expression of opinion. So while I'd agree that TFC is more sincere I'd say TW is still more personal.

Big thanks for discussing things instead of just saying "you're stupid", that's rare here.

(btw I prefer The Final Cut to The Wall)

"(btw I prefer The Final Cut to The Wall)"

and you gave this a 2.5? damn, man. do you like any pink floyd album? or just not that big on the double disc concept album approach?

Yeah I like most PF albums, this one too. "When the Tigers Broke Free", "The Fletcher Memorial Home" and "Two Suns in the Sunset" are some of my favorite tracks of theirs.

And I love concept albums (though I do dislike rock operas). The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, Into the Electric Castle and The Fragile (all double disc concept albums) are all great.

By that logic a lot of Floyd's albums are derivative. Floyd (like most artists) have continually taken influence from previous releases.

I find it hard to understand how a fictional concept album can be considered more personal than an album where he pours out his soul and reveals himself at his most emotional and vulnerable.

You must agree that this is the most emotional release Waters has ever put out.

And likewise, I'd much rather engage in an in depth discussion than resort to petty insults.

"By that logic a lot of Floyd's albums are derivative." That's right.

On The Wall Waters says: "look, here's this guy who has problems with women, hates playing concerts, lost his father etc. I put him in a storyline and added a couple of things to make it more interesting but really at the core it's about me".

On The Final Cut he says: "look, it's me this time, but I'm not gonna talk about my personal demons, fears and problems, but about how I think war is bad". I agree, it's very emotional, but it's a protest album, not a confession. Save for the t/t I can't find *one* place on it where he "pours out his soul and reveals himself at his most emotional and vulnerable". It's more about critizing and changing the world than expressing his very own regrets etc.

I consider personal and emotional two different things: the first is about how much specific information about yourself you give to the listener, especially the embarassing stuff that you regret, and the second is about how engaged and sincere you end up sounding.

This may seem oxymoronic at first, but listen to Peter Hammill's studio version of "A Way Out": it's terrifyingly personal, being about the suicide of his brother, but on the other hand the arrangements and performance are so cliche that it's not emotional at all.

Album Rating: 3.0

Whether or not they are two different things doesn't mean that both can't be conveyed at the same time.



Pink Floyd's work in general has always been personal and emotional, and that includes The Final Cut.

Like on their 1967-1973 albums?

This was meant to be a further exploration of the themes presented on The Wall but presented in a more intimate way. So it is derivative in that sense but I don't see that as negative as it is exactly what it was meant to be.

On here he tackles themes that are deeply personal to him in an extremely intimate way and to me that's what makes this far more personal and emotional than The Wall. These themes were his personal demons at the time and he made this album for himself personally.

Album Rating: 3.0

"Like on their 1967-1973 albums?"



PATGOD and their most psychedelic work being the exception I suppose. Anything with a major Waters influence has always been personal/emotional.

Let's leave it at that then.

Album Rating: 5.0

underrated af

Album Rating: 5.0

you know what, fuck it this is a classick

Album Rating: 4.2

my man

Album Rating: 5.0

8 it bro