Album Rating: 2.5

Pretty much why I 2.5d this instead of 2ing it was because even though its their worst by a longshot it still isnt that bad. I like the more Electro-Industrial tinges they put on tracks like Keigaku No Yoku. Would be interesting as fuck if they made a whole album like it.

Album Rating: 2.0

Weirdly I actually love Botch, Dillinger, and Converge but I still don't like TMOAB. I also like some dumb immature thrash like Destroyer 666 and Sarcofago's debut because of the riffs, but TMOAB doesn't have too many of those. I don't think characterising it as raw is right either since it's largely inspired by platinum-selling nu-metal albums, not gritty demos; it's extremely chaotic and angry, but it's not raw. As I recall it mostly sounds like Slipknot, with equally bad chugs and lyrics, but maybe I should listen to it again. Nu-metal was a cancer on a lot of DEG's career honestly, including on TIW. On the rare occasions where they cast off the chugs and embraced riffs they showed just how much potential they really had.



@Alexis That's the first time I've ever heard TMOAB described as "tasteful". Definitely an interesting take. I get finding Bungle's debut and even FNM annoying but do you feel the same way about California? I would say it was more tasteful, but you probably don't use that word the same as I would.

Album Rating: 2.5

Eh California is pretty boring imo.



MOAB might not be Black Metal demo quality raw but its definitely not as clean sounding as DSS. The chugging on it I just find has a bit more of a gritty filthy Metalcore vibe to it. When you have chugging put inro a super polished more prog-esque album it just feels more tasteless like its filler rather than trying to do whats best for the sound.

Album Rating: 2.0

The best metalcore doesn't rely that heavily on chugs though. Most metallic hardcore is actually pretty riff-based, it just makes heavy use of breakdowns in a way that honestly isn't that far off Slayer at times. Chugs are never an adequate substitute for riffs, whatever the genre.



There's definitely an awful trend of lame deathcore chugfests trying to describe themselves as "progressive metal" (or any kind of metal whatsoever, for that matter) in recent years, but I don't think giving those albums kvlt production would save them or even improve them. They're just plain bad. As for DSS, it's a good album that got influenced by that sort of thing unfortunately; DEG have always followed trends to some extent (glam, nu-metal, etc) and that was one of the worse ones.

Album Rating: 2.5

I dont disagree at all. I hate chugging and most of my Metalcore is shreddy melodic/metallic stuff from the 90s and early 2000s. I just feel that MOAB is able to pull itself off without sounding overbearing.



I should also reiterate that I havent heard MOAB in years. When it comes to DEG I tend not tolisten to whats outside of my top faves (Uroboros, Kisou, Gauze, Arche, and Withering to Death) and nothing else. My opinions on MOAB might not be the same as they were when I was in 12th grade.

Album Rating: 2.0

TMOAB is definitely not AS bad as some examples (see pretty much any deathcore record), but it's not really good.



As for whether it's worse than TIW, I would still put them on about the same level but I can see why people would prefer TMOAB to TIW. TIW is just such a mess in most respects, especially production wise.

Album Rating: 2.5

*Any Deathcore album post-2005



There was a time during the 90s and early 2000s when Deathcore wasnt actually too bad.

Album Rating: 2.0

The Red Chord's debut was alright. Didn't most deathcore come out after 2005 though? That would be covered by "pretty much any".

Album Rating: 2.5

Deathcore had its beginning in the 90s actually and there was more than just The Red Chord during the early 2000s. Granted I would still rather just Death Metal or Metalcore but there were bands that could mix the two and still sound pretty good.



2005 and onwards only covers most because thats when the trendy stuff came out. No reason to throw the early stuff under the bus because of the saturation of bad stuff later on.

Album Rating: 2.0

It had its beginnings in the 1990s but it wasn't clearly defined then. The difference mostly comes from the change in metalcore itself; I already said that metallic hardcore wasn't really that chuggy, so mixing that with DM would create a less chuggy result. Metalcore embraced chugs and bad vocals hard around the time Killswitch Engage got big, so mixing that with DM resulted in the disaster we have today.

Album Rating: 2.5

I dont think that because Deathcore had changed that it means we should ignore the early stuff and say any Deathcore is bad when really Deathcore got its bad rep through its later bands.

Album Rating: 2.0

Those later bands make up the great majority of the genre's work though. It would be reasonable to say early deathcore wasn't as bad because metalcore was generally better before KSE turned up (not that good metalcore ever died out), but it's still accurate to say most deathcore is bad.

Album Rating: 2.5

Cmon 90s Deathcore is one of the most unfairly forgotten about things in core. No need to help make it even more forgotten.

Album Rating: 2.0

True, but it's largely forgotten because it's a tiny minority of its genre. Kind of like how zeuhl music is a pretty ignored kind of progressive rock.



Anyway, I'll probably listen to Gauze again sometime.

Album Rating: 2.5

Gauze is a beauty and was the big grower out of DEGs discog for me. Not that I ever disliked but it wasnt one of my favorites at first.

Album Rating: 2.0

Interesting that you love Kisou so much. Gauze is pretty popular among some people here but you're the first person I've seen 5 that album I think.

Album Rating: 2.5

Kisou has actually always been right behind Uroboros ever since I first heard it. Its just one of their weirdest albums. Its their most Industrial tinged album, has some of Kyos darkest lyrics, and I like hpw the slow songs create this sadness in between the harder tracks that even then are pretty dark typically. Not to say that there arent other dark albums they have but this one just feels the most oppressive. Its just their most emotional and experimental listen to me and I think its sadly underrated.

Album Rating: 3.0

@Alexis I agree that Kisou is one of their weirdest albums and I think the turning point for the band going forward from there. The fact you called it industrial tinged is making me want to go revisit it cause I like a lot of industrial music (and by that I mean stuff like Throbbing Gristle/Psychic TV, Godflesh, and especially the modern NYC industrial/noise scene such as Prurient) myself and I never looked at it being as such up to now. Very austere & obtuse at times but underrated yes. Probably my favorite album as far as ballads.

Album Rating: 2.5

Its sound mirrors 90s Industrial Rock far more than it does of the first wave stuff. But its definitely much stranger in sound than its most of its Western counterparts.

Album Rating: 3.0

I can get down w/90s industrial rock up to certain point too. I’m reminded that Kisou was when they got compared to Marilyn Manson and Kyo responded in an interview by saying something to the extent of “We don’t care about Marilyn Manson and honestly we hate the music.” lol.