Believe it or not, people really care for averages on this site and base their opinion off of it.

I couldn’t care less about an average if I like an album *cough*this one*cough*. But I do really like and actually care about the discussions and perspectives from others.

agree hard necro

Album Rating: 4.0

I think there are a couple ways in which it is rational to have your rating influenced by reviews and rating averages. Suppose on your first listen of an album, you are inclined to rate it a middling 2.5. Suppose as well that if you continued to a third listen, it would grow on you and you'd rate it a 4. Of course, you don't know that it will grow on you. So you don't know whether it is worth giving the album additional listens.



It seems clear to me that your decision about whether to give it further listens can be rationally influenced by other people's ratings. Suppose the album sits at a 2.7 average after 100+ rates and has a damning review. Those facts plus your tepid first listen make the expected value of further listens really low. So you can rationally decide to not give the album a second spin. But if the average is 4.2 with positive reviews you could rationally decide that the expected value of further listens is high enough to make further listens worth your while. So you could rationally end up being swayed to reach a third listen.



That means that other people's ratings could rationally determine whether you end up sticking with a 2.5 or end up with a 4.

Album Rating: 4.0

This means that in a community where people are acting rationally and people's ratings would change over multiple listens, the rating averages that ultimately emerge will be influenced by whether early ratings and reviews are predominantly positive or negative.

Album Rating: 4.0

nightbringer with the hard hitting arguments here

eeeehhh i kinda see what you're saying but at the same time it relies on some hidden assumptions that i disagree with

Album Rating: 3.5 | Sound Off

Just posted a new Gojira ranked list, whaleybois

Album Rating: 4.0

Fair enough, Park! It's worth noting that my above case is not a situation where you rate an album a 4, you then read a negative review, and you conclude "this dude is right, album sucks time to drop this to a 2.5". My case is just a case where other people's opinions affect the expected value of further listens. I *do* actually think that there are some cases it which it is rational to be directly influenced by the arguments of a review but making the case for that requires much more controversial assumptions!

yea i was only thinking in the direction of your example, from meh to maybe it gets better

Album Rating: 4.0

Right-ho. Is it that you doubt that people ever go from middling to positive judgements about an album? Or is it that you doubt that other people's opinions should affect whether you give an album further listens or not?

> Or is it that you doubt that other people's opinions should affect whether you give an album further listens or not

i wouldnt say it shouldn't have an effect, but the way you framed it seems to me to assume some sort of universality of taste and of value/meaning/quality

maybe i am reading a bit too much into your exact phrasing (the hammering of "rational" this "rational" that in a discussion about art is kind of weird to me ngl) but it seems kind of like you might believe just because a ton of people really find meaning and value in one thing that means anyone who considers themselves """rational""" should try it a bunch until they conform?

now im not advocating for ignoring other opinions altogether, but i think if your own taste is developed enough and you're confident in it then whatever you instinctively feel is way more likely to be accurate for you

i will give you a concrete example: there is an album called "misleading evil" released in 2017 by a band called hazzerd. it's currently sitting at 4.2 avg out of 20 ratings, although two of the accounts that rated it are very obviously the same person but let's ignore that. it's a thrash metal album by an obscure thrash metal revival band. now u may not know this but ive heard more or less everything interesting that genre has to offer, it used to be my bread and butter back in the day. just because some people here on sput who are less knowledgeable or easier to please really like it, does not really sway my own feelings that it's an extremely derivative, stale, generic, uninspired album with nothing remotely interesting to offer. i'm not gonna listen to that band ever again, because i am quite confident in my informed assertion that they have nothing interesting for me

Album Rating: 4.0

Right, I understand those concerns. I don't think that other people liking something means that you should give indefinitely many more listens in the hope that it will eventually click. Just that, sometimes, other people liking something can give you reason to have some finite amount of additional listens. At some point, the fact that you still don't like it will outweigh the fact that others do, and it will cease to be worth your while to give further listens. And this can happen quite quickly. The point is, so long as there is a scenario in which other people's opinions give you reason to give, say, just one more listen, and that listen changes your rating, you have a scenario where other people's opinions have affected your ultimate rating. I emphasis that this is rational just to emphasise that this isn't some mere weak-willed peer pressure. It's a result of rationally weighing what's worth further time investment.

Album Rating: 4.0

Didn't see your second post and now I'm heading out to celebrate my three year wedding anniversary! Good to discuss though :]

sure... i hope no one was arguing against that lol

>Believe it or not, people really care for averages on this site and base their opinion off of it.

this however is sadly true

sick m8 have a good one

Album Rating: 3.5 | Sound Off

Understandable, have a nice day

Album Rating: 3.5

I like how Nightbringer is framing his arguments with rationality, but his arguments could also apply to non-rational ratings (well, non-rational in the way he explains rationality).



I don't think all users are sure of their tastes, and sometimes others' opinions can be a great map to see what is good and what's not. That's how I hesitantly step out of my comfort zone and try out new things, based on albums that others say are good about genres I'm not familiar with. This implies a work from my part, checking reviews, seeing ratings from users I think are well-read, etc.



Closer to the truth is I check albums based on how much I recognise their covers from over-exposure, if I remember them having a good rep on Sput years ago (And memory can be distorting), if I like their album cover I'm more patient (and vice versa), and then, if there's a huge difference between my rating and the avg. I could (and I'm probably sure I have done it in the past) settle for an ''in between'' number, so that I'm not targeted by the elitist users in the community.



Take into account the communal feeling and ''hype-trains'' and there you have it, ''irrational'' ratings based more on feeling connected to the rest and sharing some popular opinions (nothing bad with that per se), and average scores gain immense importance. It's even easier to be hasty when there's so much music coming out and there's no time to invest in everything. Some are filtered out this way.



Are those acts rational? In their own context, I think they are. I'm not justifying anything, this approach doesn't fit me very much, but I can see all those things happening.

information is always good, it's how you choose to use it that can help or hinder

Album Rating: 3.5

well, information is information, it's either good or bad based on what you need. Information is not tha same as knowledge.