Album Rating: 3.5
its common knowledge that hip-hop is not pop music
Is it?
The metaphor is just one of hip-hops main aspects that Kanye dodged on 808s and yet, people continue to claim 808s is modern hip-hop
Who fucking cares? This isn't relevant to a critical review even slightly.
when in reality it is club pop
No it isnt.
I told you to 'study up' only on the assumption that you do not regard hip-hop to be more than expressive music
And I said this where? When? You're imagining things, then arguing against them.
hip-hop is a culture that has been around for years and it shapes the lifestyles of millions of people on this planet.
Okay?
And PunkItUp, I reviewed it as a hip-hop album because one its under hip-hop on this site and two, if it is considered something it is simply not by so many people, perhaps a different opinion is in order.
But you reviewed it based on a classification you deem to be false and thus focused yourself on determining said classification to be invalid. This isn't the way to approach a critical review. Make mention of your frustrations for sure but genre discrepancies aren't sufficient enough to be the entire thesis of a review.
You don't think this is hip-hop. You are entitled. But you don't need to
a) shove that down people's throats
b) toss out some pretentious bullshit about metaphors
c) talk down to people
d) write an entire review based around itThis Message Edited On 12.03.08
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Its not my idea, hip-hop is regarded everywhere as a culture, an extension from a simple recording into the real world. Hip-hop is considered to be life by some people.
yeah i know but good lord man it can be a few other things, too.
even rock music has changed
i don't like a lot of it these days. or country. but if you make something good i'll say it based on what it is, not what i think its not
this album isn't crap. on so many levels This Message Edited On 12.03.08
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Who are you to decide the thesis of a critical review? You can go about a review any way you like so long as it pertains to the album at hand. And genre problems aren't my only concern with the album, I mentioned other things such as the childish lyrics and Kanye's assumption that he can sing, and Kanye wasting a slew of decent beats with the Auto-Tune (which I consider to be lying to yourself and your fans, if you can't freaking sing then don't sing). I have several more problems with this album than simple 'genre discrepancy'.
And when you consider something to be a part of another's lifestyle, it should actually cater to that lifestyle. And I also stated that I told you to 'study up' based on an assumption that you didn't care for the genres meaning at all, just its music, which you also exemplify in saying you don't believe that this album is club pop. If it isn't, then what is it? It is certainly not hip-hop.
And that metaphor thing is not pretentious bullshit, the metaphor is essential in writing rap lyrics.
This Message Edited On 12.03.08
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meh don't worry about it dude. reviewing is fun at sputnikmusic =]
i'ma give you a "Yes" vote of encouragement 
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Album Rating: 3.5
And when you consider something to be a part of another's lifestyle, it should actually cater to that lifestyle. And I also stated that I told you to 'study up' based on an assumption that you didn't care for the genres meaning at all, just its music, which you also exemplify in saying you don't believe that this album is club pop. If it isn't, then what is it? It is certainly not hip-hop.
Seriously, what the fuck are you taking about? Because I don't think this is "club pop" that automatically means I don't care about a genres meaning? And because it's not one, it's the other? I'm done trying to talk to you now.
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If it isn't pop, then what is it? And earlier in this thread, you showed apathy for the general consensus and their decision to consider this album hip-hop. Nobody who actually cares about the genre would go so far as to consider a pop album hip-hop, thats like saying Britney Spears' new album is hip-hop because she's dabbled in the genre before.
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Album Rating: 3.5
If it isn't pop, then what is it?
I never said it wasn't pop. It is pop. I said it wasn't club pop.
And earlier in this thread, you showed apathy for the general consensus and their decision to consider this album hip-hop.
What?
Nobody who actually cares about the genre would go so far as to consider a pop album hip-hop
They can overlap. Stop being so up your own ass.
thats like saying Britney Spears' new album is hip-hop because she's dabbled in the genre before.
No it isn't. This Message Edited On 12.03.08
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Album Rating: 3.5
He must face the fact that if one cannot already sing, filling the unexperienced void with artificial effects is lying to your musical self.
The point is that he's experimenting with the use of voice effects on the album. The use of auto-tune by no means discounts the vocals, he isn't trying to display singing talent, but experiment with how he can make his voice sound and fit with the music, using it like a synthesiser. Or at least that's the way I see it.
Good review, I wondered who would be the first to write a negative review for this.
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didn't this guys mama die? i might give this a 5 just based on that alone. thats pretty hip hop even if she didn't get shot while riding shotgun in her boy's caddy
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Album Rating: 3.5
his mom died and his fiancee left him
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Album Rating: 3.5
Iai - Hope you weren't referring to me... I have studied pop music before and I will continue to do so academically (school, but independantly as well) for a long time . But I suck at arguing anyway.This Message Edited On 12.03.08
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too much study spoils the soul!
in the arts, at least
just shake the booty, guys. its in the hips, not in the books!
its in the groin, not in the brain
too much study spoils the soul!
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Album Rating: 4.0 | Sound Off
chris what happened you used to be so much fun
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1) Did you really think that Kanye West was trying to mask his singing (in)ability with autotuner as opposed to just using the technology for its sound?
2) Did you really say that hip hop is "more than music" and use that statement to support your review?
3) Did you really just sat that hip hop is not pop, as if they are mutually exclusive? And then say that "Weezy's lyrics are hardly enough to save the song"?
4) Spelling and grammar errors. You have some pretty awkward sentences in places.
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I think if Kanye actually could hold a tune, he would not bother with an effect like the Auto-Tune - he probably switched to singing on this album to put emphasis on the fact that he is dedicating this album to his lost loves and wanted something more emotionally charged than just rhyming. And yes I hold the belief that hip-hop is far more than music and any rapper will tell you the same, even Kanye. And hip-hop and pop can be intertwined to an extent before it is full-on pop music such as this album.
iare I'm more fun in person : P.
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His intent was to create an album of tracks with only autotune and 808s. It had little to do with masking his singing.
That's great about hip hop being a culture and I see that as being valid but what does that have to do with your review? You are reviewing hip hop MUSIC. You are not reviewing culture.
Can you define the point where hip hop becomes pop more clearly? 98% of rap follows pop structuring and with the rise of hooks in rap... sometimes the line is indistinguishable. You said Wayne's involvement in the track here was not even enough to save it, thereby praising his performances. Isn't Wayne such a polarizing figure because of how pop-oriented (and untalented, perhaps) he is? What makes Kanye more at fault than Wayne in your eyes?
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But why would he even use the auto-tuning if he actually could sing? The man must know that he's a cheesy inexperienced singer - but when you have a flaw, in my opinion masking it is just the same as spraying Lysol on dog shit and hoping the smell goes away instead of cleaning it up. He may have wanted auto-tune, but if he could sing he wouldn't - he should have stuck to what he's good at rather than what he's bad at.
And when you review a hip-hop album, you decide how much it relates to the culture that surrounds the album which wouldn't exist without that culture in the first place. As I said hip-hop is more than music, which makes every aspect of it bigger than most people think it is - rap is a lifestyle, when you judge a rap album you judge its adherence to the lifestyle. It can go astray and be different, but to consider something like this hip-hop is just wrong. You have to understand that rap is not like other forms of music, at all.
Also, a lot of the rap that you may be comparing this to (I say that because you mention 98 percent of rap follows pop structures and hooks are popular now) is mainstream club rap, which isn't as hip-hop as some people like to think it is. 808s itself is more hip-hop than stuff like Lil' Jon and T.I., acts that exist purely to sustain the club-banger business since 808s is trying to convey an idea. But still, when it comes to the music its bubblegum.
And I don't think Weezy is hugely talented or anything, but his guest spots in the past have always at least made the song slightly easier to listen to because of his amazing flow...which was foiled by the auto-tune on this record and he resorted to the 'Hot Revolver, Lollipop' tip he's been on lately. He's not any better than Kanye, but he is very different than him, which should have been clear on that track. But he's pretty much cloning Kanye.
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love the review man, great work.
don't see why everyone is getting all excited over such a boring album.
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Album Rating: 4.5 | Sound Off
You wouldn't.
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loool
i just prefer Kanye rapping than Kanye auto-tuning, that's all.
Though I don't understand the hate around "Robo Cop", probably my favorite song here.
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