Album Rating: 3.5

Wouldn’t necessarily disagree this is overproduced but that term is so vague and I think often is used in place of other more fitting descriptors, facilitates better discussion if people are a bit more specific

Album Rating: 4.0

"unlike the most recent National album, this ain't for a lack of substance, but fuck me if I'm not tempted to rejam in full until individual tracks grow a little"



that's the thing, the songwriting/lyrics/vocals are JUST good enough to keep me coming back so maybe this'll break through



"Wouldn’t necessarily disagree this is overproduced but that term is so vague and I think often is used in place of other more fitting descriptors, facilitates better discussion if people are a bit more specific"



idk, I think "the production is so busy and layered that nothing has room to breathe and the impact of each instrument is lost" is almost the textbook definition of overproduced. I get that people often use that to describe a hyper-compressed sound but I think the meaning is clear

Album Rating: 3.5

But that’s more of a songwriting issue is it not? If it’s too busy and layered

Album Rating: 4.0

it can be a songwriting issue but I don't think it is in this case. The issue isn't that the songwriting isn't appealing -- I like the textures in themselves, but I hate what they're doing to the dynamics of the album.



It's all in how the layers are put together. in Black Mile, they made this great wall of sound that allowed for big impacts. As an even better but less well-known example, The Receiving End of Sirens' first album was unbelievably good at making dense arrangements clear and dynamic — the right layers came to the forefront at the right time. And maybe you could make the case that MO is intentionally going for a sound with less dynamic range, to which I say, what a waste of Hull's talents both as a singer and a songwriter

Album Rating: 3.5

Interesting. So what specifically was done to give Black Mile that wall of sound that’s missing here? Cause I would think a wall of sound would have less dynamic range as it’s all kind of blending together, but maybe I’m unclear on what these terms mean

Album Rating: 4.0

Honestly, I think I am in love with the first half of this album and just can't find any reason to really continue after Telepath (or Annie for that matter). Album starts to drag and coalesce into a grey blob after the first half. Like the back half is still good ... it is just really repetitive and samey and I don't feel an absolute need for it after listening to the front half.

"It's all in how the layers are put together."
that's still more on the songwriting, or the organization of the parts, rather than the general sound and tone of everything, which is more what I think of when talking production.

Album Rating: 4.0

"So what specifically was done to give Black Mile that wall of sound that’s missing here?"



if I knew I'd probably be producing records and not writing in a music forum lel



but in all seriousness I think there were moments when everything was a big wall of sound but it had more...punch? Like, the dynamic range was wider, and the wall of sound showed up more at the higher end and it gave more impact to things like The Silence



and I know I'm saying a lot of negative things but let's be real the most disappointing albums are the hoped-for 5s that end up being 3.5s -- and I hear all the 'second half' complaints but also I'm kind of a sucker for Let It Storm

Album Rating: 3.5

@ noler It depends, because the way the layers are put together depends equally on what those layers actually consist of (songwriting) and how they’re mixed/panned and what not (production)

well the mixing and panning and what not is immaculate

that's very much not the issue with this record

if this album was produced the same way as Black Mile, the compositions would still be a slog

at least it wouldn't have failed before it started

If black mile had the production value of this, with the exact same compositions (such as the dynamics which lead up to the silence, which is also a song-writing and not production feature), it would be even better than it is.

production value maybe, over produced slog sound no

it's a slog because of the song-writing

like look at the singles. there's a ton of great sounds, but the guitar lines, the vocal melodies, and the repetitive nature of the tracks are all so so carried by the good sound

Album Rating: 4.0

man I just spent all this time ranting and on second listen this hit way different

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304071408/http://www.venetowest.com/musing/overpro.html

I like this article. Personally, I agree that there is no such thing as over-production. It's a matter of whether the production style is appropriate or not.

Album Rating: 4.0

" I agree that there is no such thing as over-production. It's a matter of whether the production style is appropriate or not."



subjectively, if the production style is inappropriate and it's too polished/dense to the listener's taste, it's overproduced. you could apply the mixing/production of any classic album, copy/paste it onto a different album and it would sound like garbage