Album Rating: 2.0

@aubergine They're 40+ years old and having problems with management, live shows, etc. If they put out a bad album but were touring without a hitch it would be a different story.



They could come back from this, but it's unlikely, especially since they seem to have forgotten how to write a good riff like those on Vinushka. Others have already mentioned that management setting a short deadline is part of the reason this album is bad in the first place.

Album Rating: 4.0

@auberginedreams:



"Band put out three masterpieces in a row and one album I don’t like, time to call it a day."



lol, for real. And whoever thinks this is worse than St. Anger is smoking some loud shit.

Album Rating: 3.5

Given the right circumstances, I’d say they’ve got one more good album in them.

Album Rating: 2.0

@Nitro I never said it was WORSE than Saint Anger. It's not Brokencyde. I didn't even rate it 1.



@Uzumaki Probably, but given the problems with management, production, etc, I don't think they have the right circumstances.

Album Rating: 4.5

Idk how many of you guys speak Japanese or live in Japan but Japanese fans seem to generally like this album a lot and the stylistic shift was talked about in Japanese radio and magazine interviews for years leading up to this album. I prefer the more complex arrangements of Uroboros and DSS too but the streamlined style wasn’t a result of being rushed and I don’t know how that rumor started here. Kaoru said in an interview that they cut it close to the deadline this time but he also said in the same interview that the changes after DSS were to make the albums translate to live performances better. I have a magazine that has a 70 page feature on DEG where Kyo says that they made more music than they needed and have several left over songs that they cut because they were too much like Arche and they may or may not release them in the future. They had like one trainwreck of a live performance in Europe because they lost the backing/click tracks that they use live. But idk where the stuff about bad management and rushed albums is coming from besides just not liking this album which is fine but I’ve only heard that stuff in this thread. The strict management is a Japanese music industry thing, it’s not like something that all of a sudden happened here.

Album Rating: 3.0

I don’t know about pressure or deadlines or any of that kinda shit, what I do know is this is a very generic album by diru standards.

Album Rating: 3.0

Values of madness is one of the worst songs they’ve ever made

Album Rating: 2.0

@Aubergine I don't dislike this because it's streamlined; if it was an album of short songs with good riffs/atmosphere I'd accept it. Behind a Vacant Image is pretty streamlined, but it's a lot better than anything on this album.

Album Rating: 2.5 | Sound Off

@aubergine holy fuck we... don't... care...

Album Rating: 4.0

*refreshes on phone constantly* Guys, this thread is cancelled.

@Jas: Save being an asshole to people who deserve it.

Alright...so:

"Idk how many of you guys speak Japanese or live in Japan but Japanese fans seem to generally like this album a lot and the stylistic shift was talked about in Japanese radio and magazine interviews for years leading up to this album. "

I don't see why this is relevant, it's positive reception elsewhere isn't going to stop the site feeling sour over this. I think their non Uro-Arche stuff can be very overlooked...but not this.

"the streamlined style wasn’t a result of being rushed and I don’t know how that rumor started here."

That was never stated. Isn't lack of time = basic album = bad, means it being rushed has resulted in poorer songwriting and production than it should have had.

" Kaoru said in an interview that they cut it close to the deadline this time but he also said in the same interview that the changes after DSS were to make the albums translate to live performances better. "

This interview has been talked about here before.

"They had like one trainwreck of a live performance in Europe because they lost the backing/click tracks that they use live."

I was at that show and it wasn't just that. Kaoru's guitar malfunctioned and flat out didn't work, they had problems a lot that tour with equipment and sound.

"But idk where the stuff about bad management and rushed albums is coming from besides just not liking this album which is fine but I’ve only heard that stuff in this thread. The strict management is a Japanese music industry thing, it’s not like something that all of a sudden happened here."

All because it's common doesn't mean it's not bad. Also, you supported the claim that the album was rushed by "Kaoru said in an interview that they cut it close to the deadline this time" and Shinya has said it as well. Dropping Tue and replacing him with Dan Lancaster/Brian Gardner was a horrendous trade-off, and the band is getting zero rest. I will give that I'd have to research all their previous tours and do some stats to determine how severe their schedule is compared to previous years but the rough EU tour, the change of producers and the milking of the band being more evident than ever by the fact they released 8 live DVD's and 2 singles in 2 years with one album right after that...it's not good.

This isn't the end for them, they'll keep making money and Japan will especially eat them up because they still do so many shows there of high quality to keep people satisfied (having all of their crew there and not all of them overseas explains a lot). It's just that at least for me the combination of attending that one disaster show, disliking this album and putting Dan/Brian on board has been a massive fall from grace for me, and the fact that Kyo is getting gradually more worn by the day means that the band is on borrowed time quality wise. I really hope they have more inspired ideas the next time, but after 20 years of material and Kyo being so invested in Sukekiyo the odds are against them for myself.

Album Rating: 2.0

@Calc I agree. I never thought this was "the end" for them financially; washed up legacy bands can keep touring for decades (see X Japan etc). I just don't expect any good material in future.



@Nitro Doesn't work like that I'm afraid.

"I just don't expect any good material in future."

I think that's too far, but it's not looking great at the moment. They always drastically change so they could pull it out the bag.

Album Rating: 2.5 | Sound Off

cal you can't tell me not to be an asshole and then elaborate for me that's not science

Album Rating: 2.0

@Calc It's possible, but I don't expect them to return to form. Many bands stop producing good material after a certain point in their careers as they lose inspiration, and I don't think DEG is an exception to that. It's happened to so many formerly great bands like Deep Purple, Metallica, X Japan, and so on. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions; Iron Maiden still release high quality albums, and I'm going to the King Crimson 50th anniversary tour and I have high expectations. But such longevity of quality is rare.

Album Rating: 3.0

I have to agree with Irony. I honestly can't see them pulling out another Uro, DSS or Arche. They might make another solid record, but in terms of pushing the envelope they're done. Nothing wrong with that, but it depends what you look for in the band.

Album Rating: 4.0

@irony: lol, but sarcasm does. The thread needs to lighten up a bit.

Album Rating: 4.5

I just don’t understand this idea that they are washed up. I don’t care if people don’t like this album, because while I enjoy it a lot it is easy to see the faults with it. It’s not their best by a long shot, I just find it fun enough to listen to that I don’t really care. But even if it’s a 1/5 album it’s still just one album after 3 in a row that everyone here loves. I just don’t follow the logic unless people here also didn’t like DSS or Arche. If they released 3 in a row that sucked then I’d understand. They change their sound pretty drastically on every release though so if you don’t like this one I wouldn’t worry too much because the next one won’t sound like it. A lot of people hate Marrow and love Uroboros for example and that was only one year later. Kyo even said they may release some left over songs that are in the Arche style, they just didn’t want to put them on the album because it would be repeating themselves. I don’t mean to sound like I’m jumping in to defend this album because I really don’t care if people like it less than me, it’s more the idea that the band won’t make another “good” album again that confuses me if that makes sense.

Album Rating: 4.5

Tbh though I don’t really see why people don’t like newer Metallica either. I mean St. Anger, Load etc. were horrendous but they went back to making thrasy stuff again. I’m not the biggest Metallica fan though.