Album Rating: 5.0

In a pure capitalist system you're still trying to work your way toward your ideal life, you're just doing it either from an advantaged or disadvantaged position that has everything to do with the childhood you were given by your parents. If anything, Socialism is the more practical system, because being born into an advantageous financial situation doesn't give you the same kind of default advantage (or at least as much of one) over a large portion of the population in your attempt propagate your genes.



Capitalism is simply not morally justifiable. Unfortunately, it perpetuates itself, and we've got about fifty years of negative progress to undue. So yeah, obviously immediately switching to a socialist system would be disastrous, because we simply don't have a healthy enough population to support it, but making reforms and working toward it is something you should whole-heartedly support if you're interested in the continued survival and advancement of our species and not solely focused on attaining creature comforts that won't bring you the contentment you seek anyway.



tl;dr capitalism is lazy. Gotta get up and BEEEEEEE somebodddyyyyy

Album Rating: 5.0

We are one of many species intelligent enough to realize that looking out for each other and promoting group success is the way to evolve, but we're the only species that has the capacity to literally change the world and expand our known universe with that knowledge.



So let's do that.

Album Rating: 3.5

I gotta try this sometime. Anything with a 4.5 average always looks appealing.

Album Rating: 5.0

@Mongi you won't regret it!

It's awesome, Mongi. Definitely check it.

Album Rating: 4.0

Well define rich people and define well off? The rich get raped in taxes in the us, it is only the sleazy fucks who buy off the government for tax breaks, so they both win.





Captilasism puts up with relatively minor amounts of suffering, knowing the massive amounts of suffering that communism and socialism have caused historically. If you honestly think Tax increases doesn't hinder private enterprise you are wrong.





Your assumption that people will act altruistically is historically rare, and this is still assuming further that even given peoples good intentions, the government won't become the corrupt forrce you now see capitalists as (similar to Animal Farm if you've read it)



Capitalism is quite morally justifiable, what is not morally justifiable is forcin people at gun loin to pay for what you believe is ideal. Nor is it morally justifiable to discount the last century of history, the only century in which your failed system has ever even existed



Capitalism is not lazy, it is supported by people who just wantto do a reasonable amount of work to support themselves and not have to pay for every person- regardless of how lazy they are -because they have KIDS!





It needs to be voluntary or someone will take it over for the benefit of a few, history has shown this as far as I've seen. Work to fix the problems you need with charity, people have a right to no go to jail if they don't want to or can't pay for someone else

Album Rating: 5.0

@LambsBread I will address each paragraph in sequential order, then I'm gonna get some sleep. I'll check up on your response in the morning. And thank you for the reasoned and calm nature of your response, by the way! Discourse is always a positive thing, even if it's contentious. :-] Also, in retrospect, my first post rambled a bit. I'm gonna knock that shit off for this one. This is going to be concise, but long enough to properly address the arguments being made.



1. I didn't explicitly define well off (the former debater in me is kicking myself for that), but for the purpose of this discussion, when I say well off I mean anyone for whom material wealth is not a hard-and-fast hindrance to becoming your ideal self (within the limitations that Earth's finite resources allow). That applies to many people who aren't 'rich', myself and likely many of the people who will read this included.



Saying that people are 'raped' by taxes is an affront to the people who have experienced legitimate hardship, and it's a notion perpetuated by rich people, who, because they are the ideal in a capitalist system, have tremendous influence over the population. People look up to the rich because they want to attain that level of success, when by it's very nature, and I'm sure you would admit this, capitalism can't support everyone being rich (no system can).



But, and if you focus on any part of this particular argument I'd like it to be this, being rich is having EXCESS wealth (all caps is obnoxious but I really need to highlight that point). It's being able to afford things you don't need without making sacrifices in other areas. I'm gonna tie this in with another point in a minute.



2. A. Again, saying 'minor amounts of suffering' is dismissive, and an affront to the not insignificant percentage of the population who are not well off (keeping in mind my previous definition of well off). You know what's a minor amount of suffering? Daddy Warbucks not buying another boat. Or hell, for a less extreme example, me not going out and buying a new TV because I pay a little bit more in taxes than I used to and can't afford it. That's minor. Not being able to afford an education, living in crime-ridden areas, having parents who work two jobs and can't raise you with the same level of involvement that a well off family can, that's what real disadvantage is. That's being fucked by the system. Well off people and their descendent's have an incomprehensibly large advantage over the poor. Again, I'm gonna tie all this together here in a minute.

Album Rating: 5.0

3. This is where your argument really falls apart. You're arguing against people being altruistic, but for capitalism to be morally justifiable people HAVE to be altruistic, otherwise you get what happened in the Industrial Revolution in the US (the closest we've ever been to pure laissez-faire capitalism), where the majority of people lived in hardship, and toiled for a few incredibly rich people and organizations.



The problem is, in a Capitalistic system, the people who are willing to exploit others for their own gain have an edge. In free market Capitalism, the ultimate goal is to attain wealth efficiently, and being willing to subjugate other people makes that goal easier to attain. I talked about rich people being the ideal that many people, even the poor, look up to in a capitalist system, and that point becomes even more relevant when you realize that the ideal people look up to is morally corrupt. Again, the system perpetuates itself, and what it perpetuates is moral corruption as an ideal (or at the very least, as a means to attaining that ideal). There are plenty of incredibly rich people who've worked within the system that agree. George Soros, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc.



4. I've already addressed part of this in the previous argument, but I'll hit the parts I didn't.



You claim that forcing people 'at gunpoint' to pay into a system that I believe is ideal is immoral. That argument works if I'm wrong, and the system I advocate for is immoral, but if I'm right (I think I am), and a political system that actively promotes opportunity-equality is in fact the best system for the positive advancement of our species, then it falls apart.



Everyone is a part of a society with rules and regulations they have to abide by. That's just a necessary byproduct of human nature. The fact that we're communal creatures necessitates some form of forced order between our interactions. Just because I disagree with the amount of funding our military receives doesn't mean I can say 'fuck it, not paying taxes this year.' We're all a part of something greater than ourselves, it's what that greater thing is that matters. I advocate for a system that eschews ruthlessness and evil as a means to success, and instead promotes sharing resources and believing in our combined potential.

Album Rating: 5.0

You also point out that the system I support has only even been attempted in the last hundred years, which is actually an argument in my favor. For the vast majority of recorded history, enormous power and wealth disparity has existed. It's going to take time for the effects of that long stretch of time to wear off. The systems you talked about that had failed spectacularly were often attempts at complete, immediate conversion, which is unrealistic if not impossible. Becoming a more equitable world is going to be a long process, it's something we're going to have to work toward, but it's a worthwhile pursuit.

Album Rating: 5.0

5. Capitalism is lazy and so is this argument. "People should just work harder" is a bullshit line spouted by people who don't know what it's like to be born into a society that's actively working against them, or people who emerged from that disadvantaged position because of either luck or especially good genetics to become part of that privileged group. Certainly, I can at least sympathize with the latter group more, but plugging your ears and yelling 'WORK HARDER DAMMIT' as if that's all it takes for people to reach their full potential is a wholly ignorant and unproductive enterprise.



Earlier I brought up the point about societies being key to human advancement, and this is where that argument becomes damming. To reach your potential, you need to work within a society that can build you up. It's narcissistic to believe that you've nothing to gain from the efforts of thousands of years of humans working to accrue knowledge or the cooperation of other humans. One man could not have reached the moon. He couldn't have. It would never, ever, in a trillion years, have happened. One man could not have been responsible for modern medicine. One man could never have - anyway, you get the point.



So now that it's been established that you have to work within a society to achieve your potential (and who wouldn't agree that self-actualization should be everyone's goal), it follows that the social structures that exist should provide that opportunity for everyone. Right now they don't. This is the linchpin of my argument, and if you or anyone else responds I'd really like to see you/them address it (without ignoring the myriad arguments I made to build it up).



6. This is basically the same argument you made in fourth paragraph, and I addressed it in my fourth point of response.



To wrap things up, I'll say that I've been lucky enough to meet and interact with some amazing human beings, and it's because of that I know that our species has the potential to do things we can't even imagine now. I won't be there for all of it, but I'm going to spend all the time I have left working to help make our society conducive to reaching that potential.

Album Rating: 4.2

sup guys

Album Rating: 5.0

I just spent well over two hours working on an 1300 word political essay for the comment section of a review of an indie band.



Oh well, I can probably use some of it for an assignment later.

Album Rating: 5.0

Row my fellow Joey how's the weather down under??

Album Rating: 3.0

why'd you pop off on him so hard LMAOOOOOOO

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elevating internet discourse is what I live for

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BODYBAGGED

Album Rating: 5.0

oh and also all that promoting our advancement as a species bullshit

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dude yes, feature

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i'm afraid i'm unfamiliar with that lingo :[

Album Rating: 4.2

lol that was a pretty crazy discussion you two had there

sup skeamesy it's hot as fuck down here right now, how bout you