The Deftones were watching the concert and left minutes before the attack.

"Sometimes I wonder whether having some REALLY good PoliSci/SoSci/History education would help people better assess these situations (because I sure did and I thought it was invaluable for recognizing complex issues and assessing them adequately)."

I'm contemplating taking a degree in those spheres just because it's so fascinating, it feels like you have to plead ignorance all the time in these discussions.

"As for the Hitchens/DAwkins thing, I'm also pretty sure one of them was a pretty big sexist. "

Dawkins get's called a sexist because he said that the Rebecca Watson "elevatorgate" thing was not a real problem. But that's a total sidebar and I don't think we really should discuss this here.

That's crazy Storm, just minutes? Damn. Fuck.

I do worry about the vilification and mistrust of muslim people as a whole. I work in a team with three muslims and I'd hate for them to feel persecuted in any way, they aren't associated to this stuff.

I remember last year my parents saying 'there should be a TV show where muslims come out and denounce terrorism and say how much they love the west'. I just replied 'would you have made Irish people make a show to do the same because of the IRA?' I mean how offensive to imagine the people I work with having to do that! But if you don't know any muslim people you get the bogeyman factor.

There is a growing mistrust though, and rational thought is starting to get sidelined.

"I'm contemplating taking a degree in those spheres just because it's so fascinating, it feels like you have to plead ignorance all the time in these discussions."
I was considering that but I didn't because of the financial implications. I do, however, try to read up on it frequently enough.

"Dawkins get's called a sexist because he said that the Rebecca Watson "elevatorgate" thing was not a real problem. But that's a total sidebar and I don't think we really should discuss this here."

That was actually not the issue at hand. What I read about were reports of generally sexist conduct - although I'm not sure whether it was Dawkins. Might have been Hitchens, may also have been someone else from this high cadre of very vocal atheists.

"I remember last year my parents saying 'there should be a TV show where muslims come out and denounce terrorism and say how much they love the west'.I just replied 'would you have made Irish people make a show to do the same because of the IRA?' There is a growing mistrust though, and rational thought is starting to get sidelined."

That's fucking ridiculous. It should go without saying that the majority of muslims have jack shit do with any of this.

@rad pretty sure he meant hitchens ~0:35 https://youtu.be/TQas34criFo

Wolf, I'm just saying for a lot of people they just think 'those muslims sure are too quiet, should be up in arms protesting in the streets day and night to make sure they're not associated with this'. There's a disconnect, especially generationally

"That was actually not the issue at hand. What I read about were reports of generally sexist conduct - although I'm not sure whether it was Dawkins. Might have been Hitchens, may also have been someone else from this high cadre of very vocal atheists."
Have you heard about the Tim Hunt case? It's semi-related; https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-timothy-hunt-witch-hunt/

"That was actually not the issue at hand. What I read about were reports of generally sexist conduct - although I'm not sure whether it was Dawkins. Might have been Hitchens, may also have been someone else from this high cadre of very vocal atheists. "

Everyone is sexist these days according to the internet. That Tim Hunt case is disgusting. Everyone in his department, including women came forward to defend him and nobody cared, because the Internet blew it's collective load on a quote without context.

"Wolf, I'm just saying for a lot of people they just think 'those muslims sure are too quiet, should be up in arms protesting in the streets day and night to make sure they're not associated with this'. There's a disconnect, especially generationally"
I'm well aware of that and I think that's utter bullshit, what I said with "goes without saying" wasn't directed at you - just a general statement.


"Have you heard about the Tim Hunt case? It's semi-related; https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-timothy-hunt-witch-hunt/"

Somewhat, have not delved too deep into it. Although I'd be very careful about discrediting reports in that regard based on other cases. I mean, sexism is still about almost everywhere and thinking science would be immune to it by way of its educational standards and such would be idiotic.


"Everyone is sexist these days according to the internet. That Tim Hunt case is disgusting. Everyone in his department, including women came forward to defend him and nobody cared, because the Internet blew it's collective load on a quote without context."
Again, I'm careful when it comes to these subjects and again - sexism pervades society. Yeah, what happened to Tim Hunt is terrible and I don't think anyone denies that but that shouldn't be used as an argument to nullify the issues there are.

It's like those dipshits that attempt to justify (or minimize the magnitude of) police brutality with specific cases where police officers get attacked.

Yeah obviously it doesn't equate to sexism being non existent, but it does show that the whole conversation has been poisoned and labels like "sexist" get easily thrown out there without any consideration whatsoever.

I don't think the conversation has been "poisoned", yeah there are idiots that abuse terms they don't understand and misrepresent ideologies that they probably don't understand, either. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have conversations about these issues. Such points too easily become something to shut people down (actually quite similar to people who attack muslims in general for the shit that radicals do).

"Again, I highly doubt that. What I think is likely going to happen is a bunch of misdirected security measures "at home""

you hit the nail on the head. this is what sarkozy is already peddling

[Our foreign policy must reflect the fact that we are at war. Our internal security policy as well.

I fear for the Muslims in Europe, a lot if my family live there too. things could get ugly

Sarkozy, don't you mean Hollande? Or does Sarkozy hold some type of relevant position regarding inner security?

Where are you from, Key? And parts of your family live in France?

he'll be running for candidacy I think, not totally sure. this is perfect bait for him and La Pen I imagine

I'm from Canada but I have plenty of family scattered across Europe, none in France though thankfully

I agree that the politicians will use this to increase the power of the police and secret service, backed by the scared masses, like they did in america after the 11th. That is terrible =(.

People have been subjagated into believing what is right and wrong when it comes to speaking out against and singling out something for what it is. Speak out against it and be branded an 'ist'
Islam no matter how it's presented is an ideology of barbarism and control. Fuck it off people. Don't be afraid.

It's always ordinary, innocent people that get targeted in these situations, and it's sickening.

I hope for our sake that yesterday's attacks don't lead to an even greater wave of Islamophobia, but unfortunately it seems inevitable. Scary times.

"People have been subjagated into believing what is right and wrong when it comes to speaking out against and singling out something for what it is. Speak out against it and be branded an 'ist'
Islam no matter how it's presented is an ideology of barbarism and control. Fuck it off people. Don't be afraid."
That is the fucking dumbest thing you've ever said on this site. I did not take you for someone who's drinking Nigel Farage kool aid but oh well. Also this type of "hurr durr politically correct moral police is oppressing the masses" and whatnot is prototypical populist/extremist rhetoric.


"I agree that the politicians will use this to increase the power of the police and secret service, backed by the scared masses, like they did in america after the 11th. That is terrible =(."
It wasn't just America, it was also in Europe (and Canada). France and the U.K. being prime examples. Germany also changed a few things.