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[QUOTE=] i believe that HIM is about gothic imagery and love[/QUOTE]
You realize that HIM is not gothic, they've even said that before, but they are your favorite band, so I guess you already knew that.
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only heard one song 'Vampire Heart', it was nothin special. not terrible, but definately not that good
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and if you cant agree to at least that then you are taking the goth image to seriously.
And what bullshit logic are you trying to justify this statement with?
Bear in mind, I can guarantee I know a hell of a lot more about goth music than you do, and I'm not saying that as a boast, but as a fact.
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Ok drunken viking, i have a dvd called Love Metal Archives vol. 1 and they have an interview with Ville Valo and he clearly says that he's goth and they have a gothic atmosphere. mebe they recently stated that their not goth so where did you hear that?
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Ok drunken viking, i have a dvd called Love Metal Archives vol. 1 and they have an interview with Ville Valo and he clearly says that he's goth and they have a gothic atmosphere. mebe they recently stated that their not goth so where did you hear that?
First of all, simply because an artist calls themselves something doesn't make it true. Secondly, I would like (from anybody, though I'm expecting an answer from Steerpike) a verified definition of the word "goth" and/or "goth metal".
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Tom79, actually i'm not Canadian, although i went to the blues fest in Ottawa, Canada a few years ago and saw the Tragically Hip. Which are a pretty good band except the singer's strong Canadian excent lol.
Ah I see. Though I never thought of having a Canadian accent :p
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steerpike, i was saying that if your not paying attention to the instrumentals, lyrics, etc. then you are looking to much into the image. I get a feeling that people when they hear the word goth they freak out and think thats some kind of devilworshping or something. Some people don't fully understand. you might know more about goth music then i do probably cause your older and listen to more of a variety.
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Secondly, I would like (from anybody, though I'm expecting an answer from Steerpike) a verified definition of the word "goth" and/or "goth metal".
Settle in.
Goth was originally the name of a cluster of Germanic tribes in the ancient world. The Vandals, the Visigoths, etc. They, of course, were responsible for the destruction of Rome. As a result, Goth became a colloqualism among the Roman empire's citizens for anything that was crude, uncouth, and barbaric.
Later on, in the Middle Ages, people in central Europe began creating a very airy, majestic architectural style based on the Byzantine concept that God was pure light. But when the Renaissance came about, there was a shift to more logical, practical aesthetics, particularly in architecture, and the former style became crassly named Gothic posthumously. It was viewed as deceptive, gauche, and and wasteful.
The Gothic cathedrals, churches, and other structures slowly became abandoned in many regions. They became derelict and mysterious. They were forboding relics from a bygone era that dwarfed and humbled anyone in their presence. And as the Romantic movement gained strength in the artistic world, these locations offered what the Romantics what they were looking for: something that is more than meets the eye.
Thusly inspired, Horace Walpole proceeded to write "The Castle of Otranto", the first Gothic novel, which was also named posthumously. The tradition continued. The Gothic artists and writers were obsessed with mystery and Romanticism. They created supernatural forces of evil, ancient locations, and virtuous heroes. It was all heavily idealized and laden with a struggle of good vs. evil, Byronic heroes, pure maidens, and so on an so forth.
To be continued...
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Part 2...
Fast forward a couple hundred years to the England and the post-punk scene. In particular, there was a club called The Batcave in which every day was Halloween. It was the original stomping grounds of The Cure, Bauhaus, and Siouxsie and the Banshees. The most common story is that a reporter saw a Bauhaus gig with their spooky make-up and their black-clad fans and referred to it as "New Age gothic dance music." The phrase gothic stuck, and was eventually shortened to Goth. The bands all used icy textures, themes and motifs of darkness and mystery, and focused their lyrics on introspection.
Quite a convoluted story, eh?
But the point is that the Goth counterculture is an extension of Romantic philosophy. They tend to focus more on the darker and more mysterious aspect of life and the human condition. And if you think about life long enough, you're going to think of death eventually.
As for Gothic music, it likes to explore the dark side and is usually very introspective. They tend to dabble in supernatural and spooky themes as allegory and metaphor. And because it's something that interests them. Metal bands such as Lunatica, After Forever, and even Nightwish contain Gothic themes in their music.
Goths focus on personal truths, maintaining a connection with the wild, exploring the emotional spectrum, and embracing the power of revolution and individuality.
HIM are a faux-goth in that they talk a lot about love and tragedy and wear lots of black, but they haven't embraced the real philosophy of Goth culture. Ville Valo is just an incredibly pretentious, frustrated poet who sees himself as darker-than-thou.
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Nicely said, and nothing less than I expected.
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Nice definition of goth. I also agree with HIM being Faux-goth because if they really sung about the deeper meanings of goth and its culture all the time then that would get annoying and boring.
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if they really sung about the deeper meanings of goth and its culture all the time then that would get annoying and boring.
And they're whiny cliches aren't already?
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NO^
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Sure they are. At least singing about true gothic history would be, well, interesting.
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Take a look at Nightwish's lyrics and tell me that's boring and bland.
If you don't understand the true philosophy behind Goth culture, then you should educate yourself instead of pretending.
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I guess it wouldn't be all that bad, but hearing it all the time would get old sometimes - and that's when i just turn on some other music.
Im actually somewhat of a fan of Nightwish. I bought some of their songs and by far my favorites are Nemo, Live To Tell the tale, and Whish I Had An angel. The only thing i dont really like about Nightwish is that opera crap - i can only take so much of it.
i like what HIM sings about and that's one of the reasons their my fav band, so don't try to convince me otherwise.
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The only thing i dont really like about Nightwish is that opera crap
Oh Jesus, I can practically hear your approaching death.
i like what HIM sings about and that's one of the reasons their my fav band, so don't try to convince me otherwise.
That wasn't what I was saying at all. What I'm saying is that you can't just write off an entire philosophy and artistic style just because you don't get it.
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quote: "That wasn't what I was saying at all. What I'm saying is that you can't just write off an entire philosophy and artistic style just because you don't get it."
umm okThis Message Edited On 06.06.06
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I've noticed that your attitude toward different styles could use a lot of improvement. "That opera crap" for example. That quote alone in the R&M forums would get you a deluge of flames from people who both like and dislike Nightwish, simply because it's a small-minded and immature thing to say.
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Ok but i didnt say that in the R&M forums and if they were talking about Nightwish and i said that then they would of fucked me in the hiney! lol now that was an imature thing to say!
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