Album Rating: 3.0

Dissapointing album, way too same-y and long.

Album Rating: 3.5

MrMarketingDirector you should check out the title track of the album. It is a bit longer and more epic but still has some of the dark qualities that Paradise Lost has. Also check out "When All is Lost."



I like the album and think it's pulled off...to an extent. A lot of the tracks are pretty standard Symphony X though, so it isn't like the second coming of the band.

Idnuf's avatar fits perfectly with the title track's rhythm LOL

Album Rating: 3.5

Best album of theirs other than V I think.

Parts of this are so awesome, but the entire album is way too long and I actually got bored listening to the same chug chug chug guitar sounds over and over.

I love the title track, and certain other moments, but this is way too long (particularly with the Special Edition)

Still listening before I give it a score, but I agree with the complaints that it sounds pretty much the same throughout. On the flip side, I really like how this album is continuing the path laid out by Paradise Lost, which I thought was a fantastic album.

And I agree with the reviewer that they are not progressive anymore, although just in the music itself (whether or not a band changes their music from album to album has no bearing on the genre of music)

Btw solid review, pos'd

I know it's stupid to keep responding but all those points in your last post can be responded to.

1. Real artists' group refers to a phenomena in all areas of art essentially, where different artists get together and exchange work in order to receive criticism. It is notoriously harsh for new members to whichever group because they're not accustomed to having something they poured their heart and soul into ruthlessly ripped apart.

2. This is just bad logic. The best player played against the person who used to be the best. Once they bettered the best they became the best. That's why sports stars plateau and eventually fall because someone else comes along, and becomes better than them by playing against them.

3. I suppose I should give you the benefit of the doubt, but statements like this are almost always not genuine. In almost every case, it is a bad attempt at appearing tolerant by saying that everybody's beliefs are equal. If you didn't believe that your beliefs were superior, why would you hold them? For example, a Christian cannot say that they hold everyone's beliefs on God in similar esteem because those with other beliefs are going to hell. I look at a situation and think it over, figuring out the most reasonable thing to believe about it. I cannot say that my stance regarding America's involvement in Afghanistan is just as valid as someone who says "fuck them terrorists, bomb the shit of 'em!"

4. The best criticism (from a serious artists point of view (I totally get that this review wasn't supposed to be a comprehensive piece of work but I'll offer my criticism to try and help you)) is unconditional. Criticism without apology may seem condescending or whatever but I purposely made it that way so there would be no ambiguity in what I said. This is also the purpose for the "list of reasons they're an idiot". It removes me, the critic, from the equation so it can be as objective as possible. The professional approach to criticism is removing self from the situation and looking at everything through a lens of cold inhumanity. Maybe it doesn't appeal to you on an emotional level but is intellectually superior to any other approach. I don't want to lie to you and tell you that it's a good review but this should be done because I don't think that it's a good review, and from an objective stance it certainly isn't. Sorry.

Yeah all my posts are long as hell but I feel it necessary.

Album Rating: 2.5 | Sound Off

Who knew a prog record would get a retarded argument like what's gone on in this two pages.

Album Rating: 3.5

Although I don't want to argue anymore, I will comment on what you said.



I am a professional musician and composer and I am very familiar with criticism from being in a group of very highly capable individuals. Even at the utmost elite level of an art, criticism doesn't have to be degrading. For instance, "Here are the things that were wrong..." versus, "You may wish to consider the following ways to improve..." You can make the same point and not be so egotistical. And if the only way you know how to give advice is to be condescending then maybe you should restructure how you address people. I've been in the music industry for a long time and there is nothing worse than a bad attitude. It's not necessary to be so cynical about everything. I wish you would please stop addressing me as if I have no experience in the music world and no knowledge base to go off of. Just because I am "new" here doesn't mean I've never gotten criticism before. I handle it just fine when I am not treated like a moron.



In your sports scenario it makes no sense to have someone bettering the best if the only way to truly better yourself is to play against a better player. Enough said.



I don't always hold my beliefs forever. I hold them until something else presents itself that I feel is more logical.



As hard as you may try, any "art" will never be totally objective. 100% guaranteed. And I understand it isn't good or perfect or even as well-written as most of my other reviews, but I didn't realize that putting reviews up on Sputnik was only for the very best reviewers and for the most professional writers. This is just for fun for me - it is a hobby. But just for you, I'll make sure that I do not submit another review until it would be ready to hold up against the very best music reviews ever written. Yes, I'm bitter. I'm also done replying to your comments. And trust me that if you ever do get the balls to post a second review I will make sure to rip it to shreds without any regard for your feelings to give you the kind of criticism so crave. Thanks again for reading my review and addressing things you didn't like.

Album Rating: 3.5

I do agree that this argument is retarded though. There should be a place on this site where two worked up guys can duke it out without it being in public.

Album Rating: 4.0

Just actually finished listening to the album entirely, there's some really good shit on here (Electric Messiah, title track) but it does get pretty samey. But since this is my second Symphony X album (The first was The Divine Wings of Tragedy which fucking rocked) the sameness hasn't gotten to me since it still sounds awesome.

@ProgressiveTheory: Thanks for the recommendation, checked out the track and liked it. Aaaand agreeing with your review. Will listen to more (and rate) as time allows.

In your sports scenario it makes no sense to have someone bettering the best if the only way to truly better yourself is to play against a better player.

Does anyone else get a sort of Dreamtheater-SystematicChaos vibe from this album? An originally prog metal band trying to get heavier

Alright man I wasn't really arguing or getting mad but okay. With attempting that whole scathing last paragraph you try to make it seem as if I'm unrelentingly following you everywhere and shaming you. I posted a list of criticisms and that was it. From that one post you tried to extrapolate my entire personality and you try to attack me for being condescending when you have no clue who I am in the real world. Sorry, just because I posted some criticism, it doesn't mean I go around stomping babies. I don't get off from "ripping it to shreds".

All your responses have operated under the assumption that I am some holier than thou person going around criticizing everyone when you really haven't an idea of my personality. That's why I seemed condescending to you in my responses, because I don't usually take well to someone arguing against a version of me that doesn't exist. You made a fantastic strawman and tried to beat it up but I'm not impressed. If you were such a veteran of the music industry like is implied in your last response then this review would not exist. Sorry if I'm not a sweet-talker who prefaces criticism with kind words to lessen the impact.

Also your logic with the sports analogy is still completely off since you defeated yourself in your last response.

I'll actually stop now. This could go on forever since you keep on ignoring what I'm actually saying and respond with "ur a meany". I am not the embodiment of elitism like you try to make me out to be, I'm just a person. I don't require people post professional reviews, and I'm not an arbiter of good writing. Look back to my first post, I just posted a list of criticisms. Now look at your last post and what you think of me. You drew quite a lot about me and how much of an asshole I am from nothing. If you want to be stubborn and fight the idea that you may not be perfect, then fine, but I won't be there to witness it any longer.

I think he's gotta have the last word. Ten bucks says if OP replies, frogman will too

Iconoclast is a solid album, it's nothing new though and builds on their Paradise Lost sound, the band essentially just brought everything up a notch, solos, melodies, Russell Allen sounds much more invigorated on this one. Musically there some mind blowing instrumental sections that we know from Symphony X, but sonically it does not break much new ground.

Album Rating: 3.0

There should be a place on this site where two worked up guys can duke it out without it being in public.