First of all, there is no religion in the Bible, only us and the Lord. Religion is a completely man made construct. And the original word used in those verses is "Na'ar" which can mean any of the following:
1. young
2. youth
3. lad
4. girl
5. trainee
6. apprentice
7. acolyte
8. employee
9. junior
10. inexperienced

The Bible says, "I delight not in the death of the wicked, says the Lord, but that he return from his evil way and live,"
God did not want to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah nor to cause the flood, but the inhabitants broke the law and refused to repent, even after the opportunity was given to them. In the same way, would you question the decision of a judge who sentences criminals to death or imprisonment? First thing you have to realize, is that this life is a gift, not a reward or obligation. We live in a world not created by us, but for us. God gave us life, freedom, and an entire world to inhabit, and you question his actions? We live by HIS rules, not the arbitrary ones you live by.

"Despite being members of the faith, time after time I have seen that your common christian will only have a surface level understanding of the book and an educated atheist can trump them at bible knowledge any day of the week."

And yet, they still do not believe and are condemned for it. Knowledge of the Bible is not the measure of a "Christian" (I use this lightly, refer to 1st statement), knowledge of Christ is. There is nothing dubious about the origins of the Bible, only if you want there to be.

"If you are going to base a criticism of his entire philosophy on a single miscomprehension of said text (if it indeed is, the bible is incredibly vague at times) it does not necessarily mean his views are completely misinformed. Regardless, the bible is full of such ridiculous instances where it seems to condone all kinds of ridiculous violence. This is but one example"

Even if the Bible is vague, there was nothing vague about the verse quoted. It clearly spoke of, for lack of a better term, barbarians, not the Jews. The Bible says in Matthew, that you shall know them by their fruits (actions). What pro-social thing has this man done, that makes you defend him so adamantly?

"If you want to test the bible against the world you really aren't trying hard enough if you return back to it."

So, wait. Whatever I test hard enough will eventually be proven false? That is completely illogical. Every contradiction and problem I've had with the Bible and God, has always been solved, and reaffirmed my beliefs. You are saying that the Bible is false, I respect your beliefs, though I will tell you now, you are dead wrong.

"So open minded my brain leaked out my head, right? There is absolutely nothing open-minded about subscribing to a set of religious ideals then condemning any other form of belief on the matter. Nothing at all."

First of all, I condemned his lack of beliefs, not the other way around. Judaism (I'll use names of religions for expediency, and to represent a mind set), was the first "religion", all others are either based off of it, or formulated from thin air. I take it you are a believer in evolution and the Big Bang (these are assumptions, feel free to correct me), these basically propose that everything around us is an accident. If I showed you a watch, would you believe that it came from nothing, on its own, only to fulfill a single purpose? No, you would say that it must have been made by someone. So how can one say that, and then live in a universe INFINITELY more complex than that watch, and think that it is all an accident? That is truly close minded.

(Edit)
I can't post another comment for some reason (much to everyone's chagrin I'm sure...ha ha) I'm open to finishing this debate elsewhere if you are agreeable, I enjoyed it.This Message Edited On 05.06.09

The Bible says, "I delight not in the death of the wicked, says the Lord, but that he return from his evil way and live,"
God did not want to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah nor to cause the flood, but the inhabitants broke the law and refused to repent, even after the opportunity was given to them. In the same way, would you question the decision of a judge who sentences criminals to death or imprisonment? First thing you have to realize, is that this life is a gift, not a reward or obligation. We live in a world not created by us, but for us. God gave us life, freedom, and an entire world to inhabit, and you question his actions? We live by HIS rules, not the arbitrary ones you live by.

Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

Author's Note: Both of these verses refer not to homosexuals but to heterosexuals who took part in the baal fertility rituals in order to guarantee good crops and healthy flocks. No hint at sexual orientation or homosexuality is even implied. The word abomination in Leviticus was used for anything that was considered to be religiously unclean or associated with idol worship.

And yet, they still do not believe and are condemned for it. Knowledge of the Bible is not the measure of a "Christian" (I use this lightly, refer to 1st statement), knowledge of Christ is. There is nothing dubious about the origins of the Bible, only if you want there to be.

Even if the Bible is vague, there was nothing vague about the verse quoted. It clearly spoke of, for lack of a better term, barbarians, not the Jews. The Bible says in Matthew, that you shall know them by their fruits (actions). What pro-social thing has this man done, that makes you defend him so adamantly?

First of all, I condemned his lack of beliefs, not the other way around. Judaism (I'll use names of religions for expediency, and to represent a mind set), was the first "religion", all others are either based off of it, or formulated from thin air. I take it you are a believer in evolution and the Big Bang (these are assumptions, feel free to correct me), these bascially propose that everything around us is an accident. If I showed you a watch, would you believe that it came from nothing, on its own, only to fulfill a single purpose? No, you would say that it must have been made by someone. So how can one say that, and then live in a universe INFINITELY more complex than that watch, and think that it is all an accident? That is truly close minded.

"They do not believe because when you look at it, it is silly. It is very silly. I am sorry, I don't mean to offend but every Christian I have ever met has told me I am going to hell simply for not believing. I believe if there is a God, who will hide all evidence of himself and expect people to still believe in him simply because they will suffer eternally if they don't is not a god I should be expected to believe in. Pascals wager in full effect, yo."

So called "silly", is entirely subjective. If you believe that to be true, I feel sorry for you. The simple truth is that if you don't believe, you're on the highway to hell, no mincing of words necessary. But telling someone in that manner, is not the proper way to evangalize, as it will push the person farther away. And God does not hide his existence from anyone. There is a great quote that says, "If seeing was believing, would you want your eyes?". The evidence is all around you, you just have to want to see it. The existence of God is just as overtly apparent to me, as it isn't to you. We have been given free choice. God does not require you to have faith, if you want to find him, you have to do it of your own volition. Nobody said that you are expected to believe in God. This is what sets us apart from animals, we can choose how we live, whether theistically or otherwise. People have been screaming for years to remove God from schools, courts, and so on. And you're suprised that it is hard to find God? Just look at the history of America, up until about the 80s, we were the primary force in the world. We set the example for the rest. Now look, as libralism has spread, we are in an economic crisis, and have possibly the worst government to handle it. The line between Communism and Democracy has been blurred beyond recognition.

Crap. Double posted... So, how 'bout those Knicks?This Message Edited On 05.06.09

epic thread up in hurr

First off, I believe you mean "condone", and I will work of off that assumption. First off, things done "In the name of the Lord", are some of the worst atrocities around (suicide bombers anyone?). Don't confuse doing things in God, with things done "In the name of the Lord", as if that gives you permission to do anything you want. Do you really think that two men (or women) should share a bed in a romantic sense? What is natural about that? It is not violent in the least, it is justice. In my previous statement I asked if you would demonize a judge for upholding the law, I'll ask the same thing here. The wages of sin is death, be it spirtually or physically. It is a complete and utter perversion, nothing else. If you have read the Bible, you would know that this is part of the Old Testament. We live under the New Covenent, where Jesus has atoned for our sins. The consequences of our actions are not so much physical now, as spiritual. Morality is black and white, you can't be kinda right and kinda wrong, just as you can't be kinda wet or kinda dry.

"...people were so naive back then and all kinds of subjective bias came into explaining the world around them. I don't believe anything as such, I am more of a solipsist who believes certain things shade towards a truth disqualifying what is most definitely false(???). I believe the universe in a scientific manner is much more beautiful and complex then anything religion has to explain it with."

Einstein himself said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.". Just as one helps the other, the other helps it. Some need scientific evidence to push them over the edge, I am not one of them. You think people were naive then? Look around you, most everyone I know jumped on the "Global Warming" bandwagon as soon as Mr. Gore showed us his glorified powerpoint presentation. And before you call me misinformed or unknowledgable on the subject, know that I have researched it extensively and also have taken several college enviornmental science classes and given presentations on this subject. And isn't there just as much "subjective bias" on the other side of the fence? One last question... As a "solipsist", how are you able to have this debate with me? How do you know that this is real? Your self-proclaimed philosophy prohibits believing in anything outside yourself, does it not?
This Message Edited On 05.06.09

Album Rating: 5.0

Pretty good review but I don't see how there are any pop hooks at all on this album. Marilyn Manson is hugely underrated and I think most people don't actually understand or appreciate the complexity of his albums and the number of layers and meanings present in his lyrics. It's easy to dismiss him as just another artist but there is so much more to him than one might think.

Album Rating: 5.0

Amazing album.

This review needs work. The chanting at the beginning is ''We hate love, we love hate." Not to mention I feel this review, while positive, kind of demonizes the album in a negative way. The Downward Spiral is an equally dark album, but I wouldnt go so far as to use words like ''suicidal.''

Album Rating: 4.5

Not as good as NIN but I agree with this review, this albums a classic. It's well written too.