The artist in the ambulance is better tbh

butthurt about Fripp's tourney [2]

Album Rating: 5.0

the songwriting is so neutered on artist though. structurally it's much more dynamic here, with fewer than half of the songs bearing traditional verse-chorus form. artist is full of verse-chorus form. plus there are more riffs here.

one of my biggest problems with artist is how corporate it feels in comparison to this. the production is disgustingly slick and thrice is a lot more generic there.

This is best thrice

Although i havent heard anything after vheissu

And agree with danielito

Album Rating: 4.0

artist is so much more mature than this tho. this sounds sometimes a bit too juvenile for me but then again they did a lot of other things better on this than on artist

Album Rating: 4.0

Listen to Vol 1 and 2 of The Alchemy Index Mort it's amazing. Water is perfect.

Album Rating: 5.0

yeah alch 1&2 is my 2nd fav thrice. artist really isn't more mature than this in any way except kensrue's vocals. "maturity" is a pretty dumb concept when talking about thrice anyways, they've always been miles more mature than their peers.

Album Rating: 4.0

""maturity" is a pretty dumb concept when talking about thrice anyways, they've always been miles more mature than their peers"



dunno how that makes it a dumb concept

Album Rating: 4.0

[2]

Album Rating: 5.0

comparatively they aren't more mature on any album than any other (besides identity crisis). and no, changing their style is not maturity.

Album Rating: 4.0

If they do it well it's certainly maturity though. If OKC and Kid A isn't maturity than idk what is. That aside, Vheissu is definitely a pretty mature album.

"Listen to Vol 1 and 2 of The Alchemy Index Mort it's amazing. Water is perfect."

Agreed. Water is the best thing they've probably ever done. I enjoy old school thrice just as much as the next guy but Water was top-tier, and incredibly entrancing.

Album Rating: 5.0

vheissu isn't more mature than this. they're on the same level of maturity. there are major stylistic differences, as thrice progressed sonically, but there's zero maturity difference.

Album Rating: 4.0

Speak for yourself then

Album Rating: 5.0

okay, change my mind. How is Vheissu more mature?

Album Rating: 4.0

I say speak for yourself because to me when an artist can change styles and do it fucking well, then I see that as a significant step up in maturity. If it's forcefully done and done poorly then it's a step downward but not with Thrice. The Earth Will Shake is miles above anything on this record in terms of songwriting, lyrics, vocals, guitar work and well just everything. Something with Atlantic, minus the guitar work since it's not guitar driven. Red Sky is also another one in that aspect. As a whole it's just a style change that's done masterfully which is how I see it which is why I see it as more mature. But I'm clearly not gonna change your mind since you don't see how changing your style as mature even though OKC and Kid A are clear examples of that.

Album Rating: 5.0

I don't understand why you're conflating stylistic changes with maturity. they're different, sure, and one was made chronologically after another, but idk why that has anything to do with maturity.



the one point I will cede is that Kensrue's voice matured - however even while his voice wasn't at peak strength, he knew how to use it really well.



Kensrue's lyrics have always been fantastic, to the point that I'd argue most of the songs here rival The Earth Will Shake easily. take the poetic beauty and enjambment of So Strange I Remember You, or the perspective and use of allegory in Deadbolt. Easily on par with (if not better than) The Earth Will Shake.



How are you defining songwriting? It's a really vague term and I will claim ignorance as to what exactly it means. I usually use it to describe how songs are structured - in that regard, again, IoS is equal or better than Vheissu. Kill Me Quickly, A Subtle Dagger, So Strange I Remember You, all of them boast structures more complex than the admittedly quite accomplished sidewinder repeat structure of Earth Will Shake.



Your guitar work point is kind of dumb. The riffs here are miles riffier than on Vheissu. Vheissu is more atmospheric, which is cool and all, but at least in terms of technical skill required IoS destroys Vheissu.

I think maturity in this context needs to be defined better as you seem to all be on different wavelengths

Album Rating: 4.0

But dude you have a huge bias towards this album considering it's your favorite album so your point about how my point is dumb is wrong of you to say. Besides I favor a balance of riffs and atmosphere which is why The Earth Will Shake and Red Sky over anything on here. It's not dumb, it's just an opinion.

Quite the debate, here.