...Aaron Turner also wishes they’d stopped after those albums (spoiler; he really doesn’t like what came after them, especially Wavering Radiant):

https://machinemusic.net/2019/05/29/albums-of-the-decade-aaron-turner-talks-wavering-radiant-and-the-demise-of-isis/

Album Rating: 5.0

oh lordt but those are such good albums, even if they're not the immense pillars that Oceeanic/Panop are

I’d have to agree with him on this one. I definitely don’t think they’re bad albums, but you only have to listen to his vocals and the guitar tones to realise something wasn’t quite right.

Album Rating: 5.0

The guitar tones and vocals are absolutely perfect on those albums

I think the distorted tones sound thin on the last two albums (especially ITAOT, which I think has weak production and mixing full stop) and he clearly wasn’t comfortable performing the clean vocals (by his own admission). Pretty much everything he says in that interview, I felt and still agree with. When you compare the tones they achieved on Oceanic, Panopticon (and Celestial, for that matter), I just think ITAOT and Wavering Radiant are pale imitations.

Album Rating: 5.0

The production on WR is god tier, one of, if not THE best in the genre. Even in terms of the overall tone it is a completely different album from the first 3. Maybe Aaron wasn't in on it 100% but it doesn't take away the fact that both ITAOT and WR are freaking phenomenal, calling them imitations is just wrong, they're so different from the earlier stuff.. it's not easy to stand out when being compared to Oceanic and Panop which are two of the best albums ever made

“Maybe Aaron wasn't in on it 100%”
Have you actually read the interview?
“calling them imitations is just wrong”
Forget I’m calling them pale imitations for one second, are you saying Aaron Turner is wrong, too? The guy who was heavily involved in writing them? This is subjective, but I hear a large gulf in quality between their last two albums and the ones that preceded them. I have no issues with them being different, that’s not an argument; Oceanic was very different to Celestial, but I still think they’re both great albums.

Album Rating: 5.0

you’re stickin true to your name. I get not vibing with the tones, but what makes them imitations lol

Album Rating: 4.5

"Forget I’m calling them pale imitations for one second, are you saying Aaron Turner is wrong, too?" He was part of a collective of people that were making an album. He mentioned in the interview there parts of the recording process for WR he just kept his mouth shut about, because he didn't agree with it. It doesn't mean he was right or wrong. Just that he had a differing opinion to his bandmates about where that album was going. He basically said by that point they were all kind of phoning it in as a band - they knew how to write for the style, but Aaron was more about finding the emotion and catharsis in the music, rather than trying to perfect it.

Album Rating: 5.0

You're calling them imitations with bad tones and bad production, that's all very wrong. Sure, they're not as good as Oceanic or Panop, but WR can still be considered a Post Metal classic because it's still really fucking good, same with ITAOT

Album Rating: 5.0

WR is awesome agreed

“You're calling them imitations with bad tones and bad production, that's all very wrong”

You do realise how ridiculous that comment is coming from someone who said those albums had ‘perfect guitar tones and vocals’, right? Calling an opinion about something subjective ‘wrong’ is silly at the best of times, but especially when you’re making extremely hyperbolic claims yourself.

@FadedSun: I’m aware that they were a collective, but you’d have to be extremely naive to think he wasn’t the creative force behind that band. From what I recall, Oceanic and Panopticon were almost entirely written by him. I’m not using his words to justify my opinion; I felt that the last two albums were pretty average at the time they were released and that interview confirmed a lot of things I’d wondered about the writing process. You only had to watch them live at that point to see how uncomfortable Aaron sounded and looked on stage performing clean vocals.

Album Rating: 5.0

“From what I recall, Oceanic and Panopticon were almost entirely written by him.”



citation needed

Album Rating: 4.5

"The process of writing and recording the record unfolded very naturally. After we all settled in Los Angeles in September we started working on ideas for songs and sounds as individulals, in pairs or as a whole group until we were able to shape the ideas into songs that we were all happy with and could stand behind."



call me naive but this doesn't sound like a solo job

It was from an interview in rock sound, after Oceanic had been released and where he talked about playing new tracks (from Panopticon live). I could be wrong about Panopticon, but I’m almost certain he said he’d written most of the riffs/arrangements for Celestial and Oceanic. Another good litmus test for that band; what have the other members done since? I remember stuff like Windmills by the ocean; it was super generic and forgettable.
Having very similar opinions to someone who was actually there and has had time to let the dust settle to give an honest appraisal: not acceptable
Saying those albums had perfect guitar tones and vocals: ...

Album Rating: 5.0

WYou do realise how ridiculous that comment is coming from someone who said those albums had ‘perfect guitar tones and vocals’, right? Calling an opinion about something subjective ‘wrong’ is silly at the best of times, but especially when you’re making extremely hyperbolic claims yourself."



Bro it's not ridiculous, you're just wrong.. jeez. Having bad production and being an imitation isn't something subjective. w/e

It very much is subjective. Do you genuinely think the quality of an album or its production is worked out by some equation?

Album Rating: 5.0

WR has my fav production of any metal record. ITAOT struggles on that front but I still love it.

Album Rating: 5.0

'...Aaron Turner also wishes they’d stopped after those albums (spoiler; he really doesn’t like what came after them, especially Wavering Radiant)'



Im in good company then.

I was a huge Isis fan when all those early records dropped and still adore every one of them but Absence really felt watered down and flat in comparison. I think 'Dulciniea' is the perfect example. The climax/very end section finishes so fast after that build up theyd probably hammer that riff for another 40 seconds before. Its a dope song with something missing which is how i feel about much of the last 2 records

Although WR is clearly a great album I just have never been able to get into it to the point it annoys me as Im always thinking this time itll click. Theres a pre and Post Panopticon Isis for me at least.

Album Rating: 5.0

production quality is a subjective thing? even the most kvlt black metal fans acknowledge that BM production is bad on purpose, the overall quality is not a subjective thing