Album Rating: 4.0

@Superb fair enough but dude, wouldn't Musical Box alone make the most derivative prog album ever a 3? haha

Album Rating: 4.5

Totally agree with you about VDGG, Friday. That furious keyboard all around, the dark atmosphere...I could see Hammill singing on it too (with a theatrical manner).

Hogweed is definitely in the style of Vand Der Graaf Generator.
That's a very interesting observation, I didn't notice that before but you're definitely right, damn! The bookends are still there though ;)

"@Jamie 'cause you know i've got this funny thing, I only like the prog that's actually progressive. and selling england or foxtrot ain't. they're cute prog albums, you bet, well-composed, mostly classy, melodic and all, and I do like listening to them, but i don't see a lot to respect in them."

There's lots of moments on those albums that are more progressive than everything between this albums bookends so I don't buy that ;)

Album Rating: 4.5

Selling and Foxtrot are as prog as they can get.

Album Rating: 4.5

Except maybe for ''Time Table'' and ''More Fool Me''

Album Rating: 4.0

^ right on though I dig Time Table with all its medieval musings. More Fool Me is kinda meh

There's "Willow Farm" and "Apocalypse in 9/8", and also "Watcher of the Sky" and "The Battle of Epping Forest" have some nice ideas but overall I can't help but think that the rest of their 1972-1973 output was just perfecting and polishing of the known formula.

That's not to say they're bad records, far from it, but I can't honestly say Genesis were pushing the boundaries of rock music, or even prog, at the time.

At least with Selling England... I am willing to cooperate, to some extent - it feels derivative to me, but I admit I can not think of direct predecessors of some songs, but Foxtrot? "Time Table" and "Can Utility" are variations on Nursery ballads, "Get 'Em Out" is "The Return of the Giant" played like "Harrold", and Side 2 (minus the two parts of "Supper" I mentioned before) is just an appendix to Trespass (a rather underrated album).

Album Rating: 4.0

I mean I sort of get where you're getting these ideas, altertide, but I think you're oversimplifying these songs. Like Can Utility isn't even a ballad it's like a mini epic. Get 'Em Out is as rocking as Roundabout but with Gabriel's signature storytelling. I think they were taking big strides. Before their sound was mostly acoustic whereas Foxtrot rocks hard. Genesis never tried something nearly as massive as Supper's Ready. So how about Dancing with the Moonlit Knight and Firth of the Fifth? I'll be happy if you at least admit those rule.

@altertide: The way you look at music is the complete opposite of how I do (well at least to how I do now that I'm older). If one album pushed the boundaries but was far from perfect and then the next album perfected that boundary pushing sound, it's obviously a no brainer as to which one I'd say is the better album.

Album Rating: 4.5

the water tasted strangely sweet :D

Album Rating: 4.5

''Get 'Em Out is as rocking as Roundabout but with Gabriel's signature storytelling.''



You really have a good sense of observation, Friday!

Album Rating: 4.0

hehe I try. Maybe a bit too analytical for my own good.

Album Rating: 4.5

Behind him the voice called again

He turned and saw her, in a cloak of mist alone

Album Rating: 2.5

@Friday13th



Well I gave it a 5.5/10, I just rounded it down.



I really like the Fountain of Salmacis and Return of the Giant Hogweed, though.

Album Rating: 4.5

@Friday, at the contrary, that advantages you to write great reviews. I have yet many left to read from you btw ;)

Album Rating: 4.0

Thanks, I do enjoy writing reviews. Wish I had more time to do it. I'm sure if I just stopped commenting so much I could make more time haha

Sorry for tl;dr, I don't usually read posts that long myself so no pressure.

@Friday Simplifying music is what one has to do to analyse it properly. I mean let's take the example of "Hogweed" that you pointed out before - technically there are guitars in the song (not something common in pre-1976 VdGG), and the performance Gabriel gives is english-eccentric rather than filled with pathos and serious like that of Hammill's. So if we wanted to go into details we'd have to say that "Hogweed" and VdGG are different things, but come on, we can all hear there's a significant similarity.

It's great to know the little details in artists' music, but IMO it's important to look from a broader perspective sometimes - because in the end it's all that remains. I mean, I've listened to Genesis a lot a couple of years ago, I knew every note, every texture and every lyric. And you know what? I barely remember any of these details now. Memory is a bitch and that's why I listen to stuff 2, max 3 times now (there are some exceptions ofc but few).

So I don't think I'm oversimplifying things. Genesis played music that was detailed, layered and enjoyable, but exciting, pushing-forward? Rarely. In the Court of the Crimson King? Started the whole prog movement, helped in forming heavy metal, long free-form improvisation, sophisticated classical-influenced composition and pathos. H to He...? Bridged prog, avant-garde, blues, jazz, classical in a rock form that didn't even use rock instruments and also pioneered a "gothic", dark aesthetic. Tastes change, I barely listen to prog nowadays, but these records I will regard highly because of their innovation and because I can easily name their merits. Genesis? Foxtrot? I don't think so.

"Firth of Fifth" is nice, yeah, I prefer "Aisle" to "Dancing" though.

@Jamie But that forward-pushing album is exciting to me, and the perfected one stinks with boredom, seriously.

Album Rating: 4.0

I do agree King Crimson and VDGG are more innovative than Genesis. I guess we just differ in the severity of the criticisms. Like VDGG is a great band but I don't listen to them as much as King Crimson and Genesis because I widely prefer the songwriting of the latter two. I think most agree that Genesis has some of the best songwriting, which I guess is fine if you don't care enough for that part. I know some people are totally turned off by Yes and Jon Anderson's hippie lyrics and I can't really argue besides the music overshadows that for me.

Album Rating: 4.5

And imagine if Gabriel would have stayed with Genesis much more longer. I'm pretty sure that his contribution for the band goes beyond to simply the lyrics, since he proved to be a great songwriter as well, when we take a look at his nearly perfect solo career. The same goes with Hackett and his own skills for the songwriting. What a waste these two departures were. Genesis, up to Duke, remained nonetheless the best band ever in my book.