Album Rating: 5.0

Probably one of the best reviews I've ever read. And I definitely agree with you; "Eyesore", as well as the album itself, is a fuckin masterpiece.

Album Rating: 4.5 | Sound Off

that is the tumbleweed of devastation and victory

Album Rating: 3.0

"explain the "obscure" vs. "obtuse" distinction here, beyond the pseudo-clever rhyming paranomasia"



this i can agree w/

"explain the "obscure" vs. "obtuse" distinction here, beyond the pseudo-clever rhyming paranomasia"

this i can agree w/

aesthetic is a fine word to use

"aesthetic" has a few accepted meanings

1. the classical meaning, as anything that is directly sensible (available to the senses). aisthesis
2. the related but specialized Kantian meaning in the first Critique, as anything that appears in the dimensions of space and time. i.e. "The Transcendental Aesthetic"
3. having to do with a particular musical or artistic style in terms of its sound or appearance -- this meaning was first introduced by Alexander Baumgarten in the 18th century and expanded by Kant in his third Critique and Hegel in his lectures on art
4. have a certain "look," as in fashion. i.e., "the punk aesthetic." 20th century

lyrics do not have to do with any one of these definitions, unless you're talking about the sound of the words chosen

3. is the way he's using it. read again. he's not saying the lyrics have an aesthetic, he's saying the album does. he's saying public strain has much of the sonic youth aesthetic. maybe the conjunction he uses is confusing but the word 'aesthetic' is fine.

Album Rating: 5.0

hey mj what do you think of this record?

Album Rating: 4.5

god forbid, talking about the actual album?

haven't heard it yet

will listen

and Knott- it's fine if he's saying the album has a certain aesthetic, in the third sense of the term i mentioned. still, in that sentence i quoted he says that the record would recall "the Sonic Youth aesthetic if Sonic Youth kept their lyrics obscured instead of obtuse." if lyrics are wholly extra-aesthetic (apart from the sound of the words), how would Sonic Youth's lyrics or anyone's lyrics for that matter have any impact on the album's aesthetic?

it's not off-topic to discuss the writing in the review or the concepts it invokes

i'm pretty sure it's fine to discuss either the album under review or the review itself in the comment thread

Album Rating: 5.0

Are you sayin we have business, there, MJ?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQONUxMpWfw





for what it's worth, i'm using definition #3. however, part of what i consider the sonic youth "aesthetic" is that their lyrics are often indecipherable nonsense- "obtuse." this gives their music an alienating quality, as if the band doesn't want its audience to focus on the lyrics so much as take in the tone of the record.



on this album, one can't understand many of the lyrics because they are obscured by feedback and fuzz what have you, thus alienating its audience in what i believed to be a similar way.



now if you'll excuse me http://www.holymoly.com/sites/holymoly.com/files/imce/Death_by_face_melting.jpg

in that case you're talking about the vocals, not the lyrics. lyrics are the words chosen, not the intonation or articulation of those words (the vocals). the lyrics have no impact on the album's aesthetic

in other words, it doesn't matter what words were chosen. they could have just been "fuck, shit, piss" sung repeatedly for all that the listener might care. what matters is that the vocals are either sung or mixed in such a way that the words are vague or indistinct. they might be slurred, whispered, mumbled, or even coughed out. and this is what produces the audial "aesthetic." not the lyrics

just a basic category mistake

admit defeat, fix it, and be done

Album Rating: 5.0

ill actually disagree with you here and not just to be contrarian. i would say the lyrics of an album go quite a ways in giving a record a certain quality. ill use sonic youth again here: when the band sings something like "we're gonna kill the california girls" with a melody reminiscent of sunnier pop songs, they give off an ironic, bitter aesthetic because they're referencing a 60s cliche (california girls) and rejecting it.



i think women do something similar here, only instead of using lyrics to sneer at the cliche, they cover up the lyrics almost completely and add dissonances, thus obscuring what could be, with more pleasing production, a pop album.



after this, we're just splitting hairs

there is such a thing as "aesthetic irony," such as when Prokofiev uses an obviously exaggerated military march in his 1932 soundtrack to Lieutenant Kije, or when Bartok parodies the militarism of Shostakovich's "Leningrad" Symphony in the fourth movement of his Concerto for Orchestra. in this case, it is the ironic use of sound

however, there is no such thing as "an aesthetic of irony," or "an ironic aesthetic." that is to say, there is no specific sound or look that conveys the concept of irony in itself

and besides, you're confused in the example you give of Sonic Youth ironically using dark lyrics in a "sunnier pop song." the aesthetic component would be the musical arrangement and the way that the lyrics are vocalized. the conceptual component, which is analytically distinct, would be the meaning of the words sung. the ironic effect is produced by the juxtaposition of these two components, in which such a dark message sung with such a bright delivery seems to be at odds with itself

also, you'll see that this is not directly aesthetic. i.e., as i wrote above "or fantasia arising from synaesthetic associations of the words' meaning with the sound"

this is one of those cases which are the most embarrassing to read and difficult to explain, where you can tell that the writer sort of understands what he's trying to say, and knows a word that kind of seems to make sense but not really. the writer probably read it used properly in a couple different contexts and thought that the word could be appropriately transposed into a new context, for his own purposes

Album Rating: 5.0

im not gonna change it but good discussion

Album Rating: 4.0

I think I'm like Tennessee Williams. I wait for the click, but it doesn't kick in.



I'll try again today, though. Maybe a rainy day is the catalyst I need to appreciate this.

Album Rating: 5.0

fingers crossed

Album Rating: 4.0

Just finished. My beef was probs all unwarranted, considering car speakers and Women aren't too friendly with one another. Headphones, though...Penal Colony--->Bells sounded fantastic. Eyesore, too. I'm in, but can't pin a rating down yet. Wish there was a 4.2 option.