Album Rating: 3.0

bathory aint secondwave

Album Rating: 5.0

yeah i also am [retty sure bathory is 1st wave. darkthrone and mayhem are 2nd

3rd wave agreed

Album Rating: 5.0

yeah but pretty much every other band I noted was (except for maybe mayhemic truth)





and there aren't really many memorable first wave bands to begin with, honestly

Album Rating: 3.5

i wish there had been a death of bm but it wasnt to be

Album Rating: 5.0

BM is generally not as consistent as DM as a genre. and more often than not, DM has much better rhythm sections.

"and there aren't really many memorable first wave bands to begin with, honestly"

beherit, mortuary drape, Sadistik Exekution, Sabbat, Master's Hammer, Goatlord, tormentor, hellhammer, morbid, sarcofago, bathory, venom, celtic frost, destruction, bulldozer and sodom

Album Rating: 5.0

Can't say I care for all of these bands and I dare say, apart from Venom, Celtic Frost and Bathory I don't think these bands were super influential in BM.

Album Rating: 5.0

i thought the first wave was with bands like Mercyful Fate, Venom and Hellhammer?

Album Rating: 4.5

"DM has much better rhythm sections."

Obviously, Black Metal drummers often go out of their way to make their drumming simplistic and stripped down

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-didbLT-QLyg/U7xZTUIav9I/AAAAAAAAKCE/hA6l4_cUZQw/s
1600/mayhem020.jpg

mayhem 1988

hey look a blasphemy and Sadistik Exekution shirt


The influence 1st wave had on the entire world is much more dynamic than you think, these bands were from all over the world and influenced specific scenes, sarcofago had influence in brazil and other styles of BM, Mortuary Drape had influence on the Italian scene, etc etc.

Album Rating: 5.0

I don't really care for the ratio behind it - there is definitely room for BM to have a rhythm section that doesn't sound like a Frenchcore beat.



"mayhem 1988



hey look a blasphemy and Sadistik Exekution shirt"

Red herring, I was talking about how influential these bands were or are in the long run.



Edit: Idk, in my listening experience of black metal (starting around 2006/07) I have not seen these influences extend as obviously as compared to 2nd wave - at least if we're being BM specific. If we're including extended influence - yeah duh no shit.

Album Rating: 5.0

were venom really bm tho? and i would say mercyful fate might count as bm. There was definite black metal esque leanings in their work

blasphemy is still influential today yah

as are the others, 1st wave styled bm is still being made today

people still listen to their records, i'd say that's pretty relevant

Album Rating: 5.0

Venom is more like first wave of thrash , but they count venom among first wave BM, maybe because of their stage "image".

Album Rating: 5.0

"blasphemy is still influential today yah



as are the others, 1st wave styled bm is still being made today



people still listen to their records, i'd say that's pretty relevant"



I'm aware of that. Never saying it wasn't. Just questioning whether it was AS influential as 2nd wave for the general sound and mindset of BM as it is today.



For example, I've not seen these influences as strongly in a lot of German BM.

"Just questioning whether it was AS influential as 2nd wave for the general sound and mindset of BM as it is today."

well no probably not but it can be argued the only reason norway was so influential was because of all the bullshit that happened in the scene, norwegian 2nd wave isn't even that great of a scene yet they get the most praise and are the most popular. just because they aren't as influential as the most popular scene in BM doesn't mean these bands weren't important.

Venom were most certainly black metal. A lot of first wave was the thrash/heavy metal sound that was darker and highly influenced by the satanic/occult imagery you mentioned. Just because it doesn't sound like BM of today doesn't mean that it isn't BM.

Album Rating: 5.0

"well no probably not but it can be argued the only reason norway was so influential was because of all the bullshit that happened in the scene, norwegian 2nd wave isn't even that great of a scene yet they get the most praise and are the most popular. just because they aren't as influential as the most popular scene in BM doesn't mean these bands weren't important."



Maybe so, maybe not. I think you are right that all the shit that happened in the scene somewhat plays into but I also think different aesthetic had to do with it. There is definitely a difference between first way riffs and some early Darkthrone or Mayhem riffs.



I never said they weren't important, I just said I don't think they were as influential and I personally don't necessarily care for a lot of these bands because they bore me.

"There is definitely a difference between first way riffs and some early Darkthrone or Mayhem riffs."

Well yeah particularly since Darkthrone were a death metal band in their early days.

You don't have to like the first wave bands as much (your loss) but to deny their influence is wrong. I'm paraphrasing but in interviews Fenriz has stated that he wanted to recreate and pay tribute to the sound of Bathory with Darkthrone's version of black metal. He states that was his primary goal. That is just one example, but considering how much influence Darkthrone had in the development of the second wave, I think it speaks for itself regarding first wave influence.