Ramon I’m not talking about collier AT ALL I’ve literally never heard a single track of his and I’m not interested in hearing any. I’m simply defending a sentiment that I also share about a lot of music that I feel sacrifices focus on things like emotional resonance and good songwriting in favour of superficial technical spectacle. If people feel that way about collier then that’s how they feel, you said yourself that you don’t even like him that much so who gives a shit. You’re not gonna win anyone over by bashing them over the head with claims that it’s not all he does and sweeping generalizations about people who criticize this type of music.

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i'm not trying to bash anyone over the head haha, there was a page in this thread describing his music as soulless, vapid, worthless, etc, with attempts at justifications beyond just "i don't vibe with it", so i gave a response. had the negative responses been nothing more than "yea i find him pretentious" then i wouldn't have an issue. i posted examples for the curious and made some criticisms. if you wanna deem it a tirade with some malicious or egotistical end goal, more power to you. i'm not sure how you attempt to make a criticism of a culture or widespread mentality without a few sweeping generalisations as a start point but i'm fine to elaborate further if you are still bothered to continue this convo.

i'm also not sure if you mean anything by it but the convo did feel quite cordial when i wasn't going on "tirades" or "bashing people over the head", feel free to assume i'm not actually out to get you or anyone else in this thread

Album Rating: 1.5

I am half way through this currently so far and this is so boring. The experimentation here sounds so uninspired.

okokokokoko
Soooooo
To conclude, Sleep Token sucks, Collier sucks, we rule

I don’t think you’re actually out to get anyone or any of that other shit I just think it was a bit much, apologies if my language seemed uncharitable

But those ARE justification, not attempts at justifications. soulless, vapid, or worthless are all subjective critiques. Providing examples you find to be the contrary doesn’t change that.

Album Rating: 0.5

if I found a sleep token member in the wild I would do unspeakable terrible things

You might want to check in at the psych ward then

thank you for taking to that well, it's appreciated. and that's understandable, i do waffle.

i agree that soulless, vapid, and worthless are all subjective and valid critiques, though i specifically noted "with attempts at justifications beyond just "i don't vibe with it"", and addressed those critiques (having mastery over music theory but not applying it adequately, having an uncreative output irrespective of the constant experiments with different sounds and genres, only outputting technical works, etc). as i mentioned before, "had the negative responses been nothing more than "yea i find him pretentious" then i wouldn't have an issue."

as soon as someone pairs their subjective take with some kind of objective rationalisation, there's room for pretty specific critique and discussion. i didn't want to continue the argumentation with venin in the last page as i felt it was already treaded-over ground, but i did agree with their subjective assertions, as i do agree with a fair few subjective assertions made about collier and the topic at hand in multiple other spots throughout this convo.

which is also why i'm fine to bat for him even if i don't enjoy a lot of his output.

should also add there's a very good chance at this stage we might just have a different perspective on this, and i've appreciated your insight, as well as the insight of MoM/porc/dedes/venin/etc.

feet soakin

Album Rating: 1.5

had my first epsom salt bath the other day, good stuff that epsom

meat chokin

Album Rating: 3.5

all our gods have abandoned us clears

Also cleared Eden, so, relevant

Album Rating: 3.5

you aren't wrong actually

memento mori is a genuinely gut wrenching song

Album Rating: 2.0

3 songs in and uhh

Yeah I hate the shoehorned heavy chugs and how rather homogeneous the vocals can be but I cannot deny there are some tasty drum fills about this record

Diamonds in the trees bro

hi everyone waht a great evenign to be in the sleep token thread on sputnikmusic.com