Album Rating: 4.0

gave it a re-listen through their bandcamp and it's actually better than i remembered. I really wish there was more American Folk metal. this guy, Velnias, and Agalloch are kind of it.

The two are connected for me, if one is bad I don't care about the other.

Both are subject to personal preference.

@ruf: Listen to Windfaerer.

Album Rating: 4.0

I want to add that the bluegrass parts are just as good as, if not better than, the black metal songs.



@Wolf will do.

Album Rating: 4.0

well that's just an extremely limiting approach to music



holy shit someone finally agrees with me :]



didn't see this edit earlier:

Also, anti establishment doesn't mean there can't be any (regional) patriotism vibes on this - I wasn't referring to a "fuck yeah America" type patriotism but more to one specifically about Kentucky. It would fit with the history of U.S. states trying to set themselves apart from other states and somesuch. Not saying this is necessarily the case here but one thing doesn't logically rule out the other.

Album Rating: 4.0

the skit on Black Soot is so fucking great, i love it. i studied that era of history pretty extensively in high school so i love the focus on striking. it really is a fascinating aspect of america's history.

Album Rating: 4.0

:']



see i think it's a riveting stage of american history that runs the emotional spectrum so i don't get why someone would make the argument that it's a dumb thing to make a black metal record about, especially compared to some of the exceptionally dumb shit that black metal records initially were about

Album Rating: 4.0

i just like story driven albums a lot. Caladan Brood and Blind Guardian are both great bands because of that imo.

Album Rating: 4.0

oooh haven't heard that first one, will check

Album Rating: 4.0

they're an atmo-BM band about my fav fantasy series, the Malazan Book of the Fallen. fantastic stuff.



honestly unions and strikes are just very romantic to me. it was my favorite part of that play Billy Elliot lol

"idk why you're insistent on this point when it's clear you haven't listened or studied the album enough to make an educated argument about what it's actually about"

That wasn't specifically in relation to this album but generally about being "anti-establishment". You can be anti-federal establishment, anti-global establishment or just generally anti-establishment. That can make a difference, I elaborated as to why. I didn't say that it specifically applies to this album. In light of that, your attempt at discrediting what I said misses my point entirely.

"well that's just an extremely limiting approach to music"
Why? And even if, so what?

Album Rating: 4.0

because you should keep an open mind to every element of something, not just write off one aspect because you don't like another



and you're right about the meaning of anti-establishment, but. i did not miss your point, you apparently missed mine way back when when i addressed that i doubt this has patriot vibes



i never addressed the nationalist claim



however, in light of this album, if you had actually listened to it once, you'd never be making the argument in the first place, regardless of the scope of the meaning of anti-establishment

"because you should keep an open mind to every element of something, not just write off one aspect because you don't like another"
And why SHOULD I do that? Plus, they are both connected for me. If you have a topic that COULD be interesting but gets ruined by the execution I don't care. If your topic is balls I don't see how the execution could make it better.

"and you're right about the meaning of anti-establishment, but. i did not miss your point, you apparently missed mine way back when when i addressed that i doubt this has patriot vibes"
How does making a general argument about the meaning of anti-establishment and what you can deduce from that miss the point of this not having any patriotic vibes? The two are not connected.

"however, in light of this album, if you had actually listened to it once, you'd never be making the argument in the first place, regardless of the scope of the meaning of anti-establishment"
Dude, I was already well past that point. Also: I did, I just don't care to delve in to the lyrics on first listens - I don't even do that if I'm really digging what's going on.

Album Rating: 4.0

if you did, then you must have heard the various coal miner and pro union sound clips scattered about the record, clearly presenting a strong anti government message. they're palatable on even a single listen. there's even like a solid 4 minute section where people are screaming strike. it's right at the surface



keeping an open mind isn't something that really needs to be argued for, but regardless that original thread stemmed from the idea that the history of coal mining couldnt provide an appropriate thematic or emotional backdrop for a black metal album, which it absolutely can, especially compared to much of the other source material black metal has had. this whole silly argument has stemmed from you making sweeping generalizations about the album that you clearly can't justify, and then nitpicking my semantics

"u did, then you must have heard the various coal miner and pro union sound clips scattered about the record, clearly presenting a strong anti government message. they're palatable on even a single listen. there's even like a solid 4 minute section where people are screaming strike. it's right at the surface"
I will repeat again what I've said before, you can be patriotic/nationalist and anti-government so yeah I didn't deduce much from them - not that I paid much attention, I probably skipped quite a few since I don't care much for such implementations.

"keeping an open mind isn't something that really needs to be argued for,"
I never said I had anything against keeping an open mind. I just said that if either a) the topic is bad, I won't care for the execution or b) if the exeuction is bad then I don't specifically care about the topic in that instance as they are both inseparable for me.

"but regardless that original thread stemmed from the idea that the history of coal mining couldnt provide an appropriate thematic or emotional backdrop for a black metal album"
Correct.

"which it absolutely can, especially compared to much of the other source material black metal has had."
Not gonna argue that anymore although I don't see how it specifically makes for "better" source material than that of more "traditional" BM?

"this whole silly argument has stemmed from you making sweeping generalizations about the album that you clearly can't justify, and then nitpicking my semantics"
So? I already admitted I was wrong and tried not dig deeper and maybe steer the conversation into a different direction.

Album Rating: 4.0

i'm not making an objective argument about what makes a good topic. more that black metal has had a long history with a lot of poor topics, and as i'm sure you're aware, has its roots somewhat in nationalism (until the majority of its practitioners did away with that nonsense), so to say that coal mining is a bad topic is a bit disengenuous. my argument is that there is nothing about coal mining that makes it an inherently bad choice for a black metal album, and further that the experiences of the people involved in its industry provide as reasonable a topic and emotional backbone for a black metal album as any other

No arguments here.

Although I wonder what specifically you are referring to here with roots in nationalism. Which bands specifically are we talking about? Which wave?

Also: Interesting to know Lunn's an anarchist. There are probably interesting conversations one could have with him over one of his beers with one of his records in the background.

Album Rating: 4.0

Mostly 2nd wave. off the top of my head, Mayhem, Burzum, Nokturnal Mortuum (on earlier releases), that era had a lot of it.



Yeah I'd love to visit his brewery someday, luckily I am somewhat close to it. Thinking of combining a show in MN with a stop at his place

Alright, I see what you're getting although I don't know to which degree nationalism found its way into the lyrics there (at least for Burzum and Mayhem which AFAIK didn't deal with that). I never liked bands like Nokturnal Mortum or Graveland.

I'd probably couple it with a visit in Chicago or something like that, just no idea whe I'll have the finances and the opportunity to do so.

Album Rating: 4.0

Yeah I feel you there. It's nice to be near specifically him, but getting to places that have decent shows are a drain financially, almost no one comes through my area. I was beyond lucky that Deafheaven made its way through there.



I could be wrong, but didn't Varg write heavily about nationalism and neo-naziism even back then?

Well, I live in Europe so getting to the U.S. is generally a bit more of a pain in the ass. Particularly if it's not directly on the coastline. Yeah, I know that feeling. I grew up in a rural area and where I live now is a bit better but not that much - one of the reasons I'm planning my move to Hamburg.

Well, yes and no. He did write heavily about that type of stuff, but he didn't directly implement it in his music (fortunately).