Tho everything after axe to fall had sucked

Album Rating: 4.0

@Isis: I could agree but they're also one of those groups I look towards to signify just how much variety is possible within the metalcore framework and what makes the genre such fertile ground for limitless songwriting. It's like death metal in the sense that just about any style of part can work in the proper context. Converge do post-hardcore, straight up punk, grind, shoegaze, sludge, noise rock, ballads, etc, whenever it suits them and almost all of it works.



@Potsy: Well I think AWLWLB is another classic from them, but I can easily see where someone would be disappointed in The Dusk in Us or Bloodmoon.

Album Rating: 4.0

Btw the best modern pop punk band ever for me is probably Ivy League TX. Feels completely removed from all that Warped Tour shit. Feels quite a bit more earnest than All Time Low or some similar ass sounding stuff.

'Tho everything after axe to fall had sucked'

probably wouldnt say sucked but i do generally agree

"Converge do post-hardcore, straight up punk, grind, shoegaze, sludge, noise rock, ballads, etc, whenever it suits them and almost all of it works."

Yeah, I don't think there's any real disagreement, re. Converge or the genre... it's more that they kinda embody all these elements whereby anyone versed enough in "aggressive music" (the all-encompassing term Jacob Bannon always uses, bypassing the "metalcore" tag) could appreciate, without necessarily having to go through too many sound-alikes or genre tropes. There's an emotional connection I get with them that's incredibly rare in general, let alone among their peers.

Also, yes, AWLWLB is still great. 'Bloodmoon', I'm almost positive was going to be called that as a group (opposed to just an album) but obviously they decided that the "Converge" branding has more weight. I reckon as a project, it'd have been to its benefit (probably not in sales) to call it that, so it could be considered a thing in its own right, as it doesn't really feel like a Converge record for more than about 15 seconds.

There’s this weird correlation between me losing interest in metalcore and mathcore at the end of the 00’s and it all getting shitty

Album Rating: 4.0

I used to be a straight up metalcore bro/hardcore kid back in the day. Made up most of my heavy music listening. Definitely happy to have branched out in my late teens/early 20s. I think there's not nearly as much good shit in the genre as there used to be, but it still comes out. Don't really get The Callous Daoboys hype, but thoughtcrimes is pretty cool.

"There’s this weird correlation between me losing interest in metalcore and mathcore at the end of the 00’s and it all getting shitty"

It seems that you personally, had a significant backlash against metal/guitar-based music, but I would say from my perspective, that the genre feels like the true innovators were done innovating, and others basically went off the set template. Therefore, the new stuff (whilst good here and there), felt like it had been done before.

'It seems that you personally, had a backlash against metal/guitar-based music, but I would say from my perspective, that the genre feels like the true innovators were done innovating, and others basically went off the set template. Therefore, the new stuff (whilst good here and there), felt like it had been done before.'

i fully believe that metalcore/mathcore had its heyday in the late 90s through to the late 2000s and that since then theres been a lot of stuff basically imitating the greats

Ya that was half a joke and half genuinely feeling like the genre started getting much worse from there and was the causation for my decreased interest. Late 00’s was peak innovation and then everything started to feel like it was regressing, even from the genres leaders

Album Rating: 4.0

Kinda sad too, cause there's still so much room to innovate if only some groups dared to do so.

basically the history of metalcore/mathcore goes

mid to late 90s: the first metalcore bands, eg. deadguy, rorschach, integrity, kiss it goodbye etc

late 90s to early 2000s: way more interesting stuff starts being done by botch, coalesce, converge, the dillinger escape plan etc that is the start of mathcore properly and metalcore loses much of its original hardcore punk feel

early 2000s to late 2000s: the great melting pot of begins, with a shit ton of bands basically combining metalcore, post-hardcore, emo, electronic music, death metal. eg fear before, poison the well, deathcore starts properly, horse the band, ghengis tron etc

thats my armchair take/explanation

notice how the entries on my metalcore list basically tail off after the 2010s


https://www.sputnikmusic.com/list.php?memberid=1034844&listid=199414

That The Armed album is where 16 year old me would have thought we’d be at by now in general. Or is the closest thing to it. Like how did we go from Ire Works to One of Us Is the Killer and Dissociation and Axe To Fall to Bloodmoon and Dusk In Us…

Album Rating: 4.0

late 2010s to early 2020s: The Great Stagnation

Started happening pretty Early in the 2010’s imo

wooops double post

That’s unfortunate

'Started happening pretty Early in the 2010’s imo'


yeah for sure.

i feel like a lot of the kids that would have been playing metalcore/mathcore started djent bands when it became the big thing

MillionDead: "Kinda sad too, cause there's still so much room to innovate if only some groups dared to do so."

Potsy: "Like how did we go from Ire Works to One of Us Is the Killer and Dissociation and Axe To Fall to Bloodmoon and Dusk In Us…"

I think that there's only so much you can do within the confines of any given genre before it all starts to repeat. 20+ years of something that felt wildly new is pretty good going, but there's very little wiggle-room to do new stuff once all the tricks have been done.

I reckon at this stage, if they could come up with something, it'd likely evolve into a different genre... I'm no musician by a long-shot, so I don't know where or how this could be done, but I reckon the likes of DEP knew this and called it quits (after releasing their weakest effort).