theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Inb4 "all country lyrics are about is tractors, jeans and girls" |
Scoob
10.29.17 | Death metal |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | While you're at it I guess describe what makes good lyrics for you. Does it depend on the genre? Fuck lyrics altogether, the instrumentals are all that matter? |
guitarded_chuck
10.29.17 | hip hop easily |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | ok Mayhem but what's YOUR opinion, I want hot takes |
Cygnatti
10.29.17 | literally nothing wrong with songs about tractors, girls, and dixie cupz tbqh |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Hip hop lyrics are just about rape and drugs though |
Astral Abortis
10.29.17 | I don't know if genre has anything to do with it. A good writer will have good lyrics. My favourites are John Darnielle and John K Samson. |
Avagantamos
10.29.17 | hip hop easily [2] |
Satellite
10.29.17 | "My favourites are John Darnielle and John K Samson."
hey me too |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | I feel like it does depend somewhat on genre though because in some styles lyrics aren't all that important so they can be good in the context of that genre while they'd be bad in other genres |
SteakByrnes
10.29.17 | Well my favorite lyricist was Garrison Lee from Erra, I dig lyrics that have the ability to expand my vocabulary |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Darnielle is great yeah |
McTime50
10.29.17 | indie rock, maybe a little emo. post-hardcore also. |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | It's called sarcasm Mayhem smh |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Hip hop sucks though but that's not just because of the lyrics |
Cygnatti
10.29.17 | imo, lyrics can only help a bad song or make a good song better (with few exceptions). |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Cyg that again depends a lot on genre, in some genres the lyrics are (or at least can be) 90% of the song |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | In fact Cyg Southeastern is a perfect example of that, the lyrics make up at least 80% of the appeal of that album, in a style like that the songs are for the most part only as good as their lyrics are |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Anyway I personally tend to prefer lyrics that fall on the eloquent but less "poetic" or obscure side. I prefer to be able to make it all out without having to reference a lyric sheet and I don't want to have to think too hard about what it's supposed to mean, but at the same time I do appreciate a level of abstractness as long as the words themselves are well-constructed. I like stuff with fairly short, memorable lines and vivid imagery. Generally I prefer storytelling lyrics to more confessional/introspective ones, though I like confessional/instrospective stuff if it's grounded in a narrative or has a fair amount of imagery/detail. |
Drifter
10.29.17 | "Death metal"
Most cringey definitely |
SandwichBubble
10.29.17 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct6BUPvE2sM |
Drifter
10.29.17 | "Hip hop lyrics are just about rape and drugs though"
What the actual fuck |
TVC15
10.29.17 | Trap rap |
Drifter
10.29.17 | Actually yeah |
Drifter
10.29.17 | I think the Jeff Buckley genre and the 2Pac genre have the best lyrics tbh |
CaimanJesus
10.29.17 | Definitely Ska |
Cygnatti
10.29.17 | "Hip hop lyrics are just about rape and drugs though"
umm??? |
Drifter
10.29.17 | Now THAT'S creative |
Gyromania
10.29.17 | Classical easily has the best lyrics of any genre |
Deez
10.29.17 | K-pop |
BlazinBlitzer
10.29.17 | Indie rock gets pretty unleashed and boundless with their lyrics. That's why I love Spiderland so much. |
AlexKzillion
10.29.17 | Don't care for lyrics too too much but hip hop I guess |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | While I was being cheeky with the above comment about rape and drugs, I'm curious, what do people like so much in hip-hop lyrics? Particularly because I feel like for most people they're pretty difficult to relate to in most cases. |
dbizzles
10.29.17 | Slam for sure.
Slam lyrics unhinge urethras. |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Hmmm I guess I could see that. For me hip hop is possibly the least aesthetically appealing genre out there so I guess it's just hard for me to relate to what people see in it. |
Ovrot
10.29.17 | pornogrind
i'll never go to africa again |
Asdfp277
10.29.17 | whatever bjork plays |
TVC15
10.29.17 | Hip hop is a genre where a vocalist has all the freedom they got with how they write their lyrics; some of my favorite hip hop songs like "Dance with the Devil" and "New York State of Mind", for instance, are songs with very long verses delivered with impecable flow but looking deeper, the lyrics are very intricate and deliberately chosen. Many rhymes packed into each sentence and yet portray each of their stories superb detail.
I mean, a Bob Dylan can do all that in 11 minutes and still manage to be engaging, but hip hop is a genre (at least pre-2000s, generally speaking) where the artists place a lot of their energy on their lyrics and storytelling. |
TVC15
10.29.17 | "pornogrind
i'll never go to africa again"
Lmfao. Knowing what song this is makes this comment even funnier omg |
Frippertronics
10.29.17 | folk hands down |
Ryus
10.29.17 | hip hop or folk |
TheSpaceMan
10.29.17 | i'm not sure, i think it might be independent of genre. personally not wowed by lyrics much anywayz |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Folk is the only real contestor for country but country wins out because of a slightly greater level of simplicity/plainspokenness. |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Plus country is just folk anyways |
IronGiant
10.29.17 | aaron weiss-core for me |
Dedes
10.29.17 | The only good lyrics writer is Corey Feldman. |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | @people who say they don't really care about lyrics, why not? To me it seems strange to listen to music with vocals and (comprehensible) lyrics and not care about them. |
Dedes
10.29.17 | I think it mostly has to do with the how much power music in of itself contains that it can evoke emotions that the lyrics may not wind up evoking. I do however believe that incredibly poor lyrics can put a damper on most music (where the vocals are comprehensible of course.) |
AlexKzillion
10.29.17 | I care more about whether on not the lyrics sound good coming from the vocalist's mouth/how they sound in the context of the song than I do about the actuallyrics themselves if that makes any sense. |
Drifter
10.29.17 | Lyrics matter a lot |
AngryLittleAlchemist
10.29.17 | "pornogrind
i'll never go to africa again"
Nice reference to Raped by Elephants lmao |
Masochist
10.29.17 | It's hard to choose a favorite hip-hop song, but one that I come back to time and time again is "Respiration," by Black Star; this is a highlight for the careers of all three MCs involved (Mos Def, Talib Kweli and Common). The imagery that is constructed in that song remains some of the best in the entire genre, starting from the Spanish lyrics that open it: "Escuchela...la ciudad respirando." (Listen...the city is breathing."). The whole song speak about New York, and relates it to a living, breathing beast. Some gems include:
"The shiny Apple is bruised but sweet, and if you choose to eat, you could lose your teeth" (Apple, as in the Big Apple, as in New York)
"Heard the bass ride out like an ancient mating call; I can't take it, y'all--I can hear the city breathing, chest heaving against the flesh of the evening..."
"Look in the skies for God, what you see besides the smog is broken dreams flying away on the wings of the obscene: Thoughts that people put in the air, places where you could get murdered over a glare...but everything is fair. It's a paradox we call reality, so 'keepin' it real' will make you casualty of abnormal normality."
"Felt the spirit in the wind, knew my friend was gone for good. Threw dirt on the casket, the hurt, I couldn't mask it; mixing down emotions, struggle I hadn't mastered." (Of course an MC would compare not being able to deal with a friend's death to music production).
"It's deep, I heard the city breathe in its sleep--a reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep." (Trying hard to "keep it real," you see?)
If ever you needed an example of what incredible lyricism sounds like, this is one of the best songs to go to. Also, the beat is one of my favorites. |
Masochist
10.29.17 | OOOORRRRR...
Maybe you're wondering about that whole braggadocio thing so many MCs pull. So we have this incredible song called "Shook Ones, Pt. II" by Mobb Deep, wherein the first verse is a straight challenge to step up to the MC, and the second verse is basically stating that you have to have that mindset to even survive in that environment (also, coincidentally, New York):
"You can put your whole army against my team and I guarantee you it'll be your very last time breathin'. Your simple words just don't move me: you're minor, we're major; you're all up in the game and don't deserve to be a player." (One of my all-time favorite lines in hip-hop, not least of all because of how it's delivered--the cadence, the rhyme scheme, all of that goes into making this such a powerful boast)
And then that second verse I talked about:
"For every rhyme I write it's 25 to life. Yo, it's a must: In gats we trust, safeguardin' my life. Ain't no time for hesitation, that only leads to incarceration"
"Sometimes I wonder, do I deserve to live? Or am I gonna burn in Hell for all the things I did? No time to dwell on that, ‘cause my brain reacts; front if you want, kid, lay on your back"
This is all so interesting because it's like a first-hand look into what this lifestyle entails. It's nothing we'd ever wish on anyone, but in some sick way it's an...exciting life, if nothing else. The best rappers are able to convey that with authenticity and conviction, weaving a good story with hard attitude to take us into that world.
At least...that's why it works for me. But then again, "Shook Ones, Pt II" has one of the most famous beats of all time, so there's definitely some of that, too.
Now these are both from the 90's, and are fairly well known. The good hip-hop nowadays is mostly quote-unquote UNDERGROUND, and the stuff on the radio is either introducing a dance or all about wordplay and flow. You know...stuff that's entertaining, or can provide a good beat in a nightclub. |
CaimanJesus
10.29.17 | Probably pop punk tbh |
TheSpaceMan
10.29.17 | @boney to answer your question, I don't listen to music for a message. written pieces, like poetry, storiers, articles, etc are different because I read them with the intent of the author's voice and viewpoint. but music is a sonic thing, a stimulant to the sense of hearing. so what Alex said is actually super on point, and in that sense hip hop is probably the answer because the 'words' are setup/structured around the sonic delivery rather then a "deep meaning". and if it has that deeper meaning, its just a cool bonus to a good song |
TheSpaceMan
10.29.17 | that being said, I can differentiate good lyrics from bad. and do appreciate certain lyrical theme more than others. its just a secondary thing is all |
Ovrot
10.29.17 | big pun |
Deathconscious
10.29.17 | Post punk and post punk influenced music. |
Ovrot
10.29.17 | Flawless victory and niggas can't do shit to me
Physically, lyrically, hypothetically, realistically
|
Typhoon24
10.29.17 | battle rap. k-rino and canibus have more rhymes than there's lines in your database |
CalculatingInfinity
10.29.17 | I know my fav album lyrically but as a whole genre I don't really have a clue. |
Archelirion
10.29.17 | If I'm listening to black metal, for example, I barely give a rat's arse about the lyrics (although reading along to them can sometimes be fun) - it's all about the vocal execution and instrumental there. However, for something like Pulp, who have a more story-telling, 'glimpse into a world' feel, then lyrics are tremendously important.
I'm throwing another coin in country's hat. Particularly until maybe the late 70s/early 80s, there's an unmatched sincerity that runs alongside it. |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | @Masochist, that's a really interesting take. I can definitely appreciate where those lyrics are coming from but they're definitely a bit too...convoluted for me and egocentric.
@SpaceMan, that's fair I guess, I see where you're coming from although I think that's a bit ignorant of where some artists are coming from with respect to their lyrics. In some genres I definitely agree with you that the way lyrics sound is more important than what they're actually saying but in others they're an intrinsic part of the emotion of the song - I've used these examples already but such is the case in most folk and country music, where lyrics often come first and the music is entirely built around them. And for me at least, even if lyrics aren't all that important to the style in question bad ones can really detract from the overall experience - again, if they're comprehensible.
@Arche, definitely agree re: country, the sincerity of its lyrics is a big part of the appeal for me, though I wouldn't limit that to late 70s/early 80s; there are plenty of amazing country songwriters who've arisen since then, many of whom I'd argue are actually better than a lot of the classic artists. |
guitarded_chuck
10.29.17 | "Hmmm I guess I could see that. For me hip hop is possibly the least aesthetically appealing genre out there so I guess it's just hard for me to relate to what people see in it."
whether you like it or not it's easy to see that in general no other genre puts more emphasis on the lyric itself than hip hop
it's the closest thing to straight up poetry in music (generally) |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | I wouldn't say that, plenty of country and folk puts just as much emphasis on the lyric. Plus imo more poetic doesn't necessarily equal better lyrics - as I've said above I prefer a level of simplicity in lyrics but much poetry is intent on complexity and abstractness. |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | I won't argue against hip hop having the most emphasis on the sound of the lyrics though (in terms of the use of sound devices as in poetry) |
guitarded_chuck
10.29.17 | now that's a spicy generalization |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Imo the best lyrics are better than the best poetry though that's just personal preference - so much poetry is painfully pretentious and obscure and I find the emotional delivery of song lyrics much more affecting. |
guitarded_chuck
10.29.17 | good edit |
guitarded_chuck
10.29.17 | anyway in this context my poetry i mean it's the closest thing to being simply a lyric without any musical accompaniment, nothing to do with complexity or anything
to claim poetry is always like faux complex and pretentious or complex at all is to not understand poetry |
theBoneyKing
10.29.17 | Yeah I realized the way I initially phrased that was ambiguous.
In that sense of poetry I guess I can see what you mean but I still think folk and country operate in the same way a lot of the time - an obvious choice but take Bob Dylan for example, especially his early stuff.
And not all poetry is complex or pretentious but a lot of it is, at least the stuff I was subjected to throughout my primary and secondary school education. But I'd much rather read prose or listen to song lyrics than read poetry - imo most of the time it's not worth the effort. |
bgillesp
10.29.17 | Anything by Fish, Devin Townsend, or Vic Fuentes |
TheSpaceMan
10.29.17 | "I think that's a bit ignorant of where some artists are coming from with respect to their lyrics... but such is the case in most folk and country music, where lyrics often come first and the music is entirely built around them"
i feel you man but its not a case of ignorance... i don't have the same level of appreciation of those genres as you do, mostly for that same reason |
Conmaniac
10.29.17 | any genres lyrics can be cliched and summarized into generalities that don’t actually match. whether it be trucks and beer with country, sex money and bitches with rap, breakups and loneliness in emo, or even woah lsd is cool in psych rock. i think my favorite type of lyrics can’t be summarized into a genre however. singer songwriter folk a la Elliott Smith, Damien Rice, Julien Baker, etc might be the closest though |
MrSu
10.29.17 | Progressive metal, easily |
GhostOfSarcasticBtrd
10.29.17 | Everyone knows nu-metal has the greatest lyrics of all time why is this even a discussion? |
CaimanJesus
10.29.17 | Whatever buckcherry is |
Rik VII
10.29.17 | That's like asking which film genre has the best scores. The genre doesn't have a lot to do with the quality of the lyrics. So in every genres there will be terrible lyricists and there are a lot of genres where there are good lyricists ...
I've been digging into some of Gabriel's Genesis lyrics which are genius for the most part (Harold the Barrel, Get 'Em Out by Friday and The Battle of Epping Forest are personal favorites). Ian Anderson was an amazing lyricists during the Minstrel in the Gallery days (Baker Street Muse rules), so yep, progressive rock can be brilliant in terms of lyrics, but then there are bands like Yes that don't give a shit about lyrics. Which only proves what I said above. |
CygnusX1
10.30.17 | Every genre has great lyricists (maybe not edm?) and every genre has it's own lyrical themes and stereotypes. I think that each genre tells a different story. I like metal but a lot of times I can't figure out what the hell they're saying. Sometimes it's "kill die death forever" and other times it's an introspective look at human consciousness or what it means to be alive. Black metal is cool but we get it, it's cold and dark in the forest where you're from. Emo/indie is great for people who are depressed and have feelings. Country is perfect for people who don't say "city-folk" ironically. Hip hop makes you feel thug whether you're actually a thug or just a middle to upper class white kid who wants to have street cred. And I'm sure there's at least one person who likes pop lyrics.
Diff'rent strokes for different folks. But I think we can all agree that Fred Durst is the greatest lyricist of all time. |
SexualManChocolate
10.30.17 | Rap definitely. What other genre raps about breaking the law and killing people and then claim that they're oppressed? |
Drifter
10.31.17 | "Hip hop makes you feel thug whether you're actually a thug or just a middle to upper class white kid who wants to have street cred"
Hell yeah m/m/m/ |