Funeralopolis: Classical: Objectivly Best Genre?

Funeralopolis 04.16.12	it's no prog that's for sure.
YankeeDudel 04.16.12	Electronic music can make any sound known to man. Even if it doesnt take as much talent as classical on a pure musical level the possibilities are endless with it. Either way discussions like this are stupid because even just a folk singer with his acoustic can be more emotional than classical music for me. Then on the other end you got prog rock/metal and jazz which have the best musicians on the planet along with Classical. It all depends and why music will always be subjective and discussions like this never go anywhere.
Relinquished 04.16.12	"well without classical i dont think music today at all would be the same. maybe it wouldnt even exist." some form would exist but if it wasn't the musicians back then who laid down everything we know about music and theory of it then music would be very weak.
bloc 04.16.12	Jazz is easily the best
Athom 04.16.12	I love orchestral music in general so I have no problems with this position.
Athom 04.16.12	@bloc combine em 3rd stream!
WeepingBanana 04.16.12	i don't really believe in an "objectively best genre"
bloc 04.16.12	True true
Yazz_Flute 04.16.12	Objectively the best genre of music is BTMI!
WeepingBanana 04.16.12	"Objectively the best genre of music is BTMI!" actually yeah this
YankeeDudel 04.16.12	I think any music that somehow reaches you emotionally has done its job. Whether its the most complex or simplest it doesnt matter. I mean compare Classical to the Delta Blues and you have two completely different forms of music which basically laid the groundwork for most of the music we hear today. Son House just sat on his bench with a guitar singing his heart out while Beethoven was composing symphonies. Both can reach you emotionally and you cant say one is better than the other.
Trebor. 04.16.12	classical doesn't have drums so no
Yazz_Flute 04.16.12	Fuck you I'm a music major whose focus is classical percussion
Blackbelt54 04.16.12	I don't think you can pick an objectively best genre overall
Activista anti-MTV 04.16.12	There is no consensus worth building here.
Activista anti-MTV 04.16.12	One thing that strikes me about classical is the pursuit of perfection. Orchestration itself means planning or forethought
wabbit 04.16.12	classical music is really overrated and bob dylan is probably better than mozart.
Trebor. 04.16.12	opera is objectively the worst genre
immortalizepain 04.16.12	Jazz is the best.
Graveyard 04.16.12	modern country is objectively the worst genre
Trebor. 04.16.12	true
conradtao 04.16.12	good god Miles also yeah, "objectively best" is such a /mu/ sentiment that it barely merits discussion. personally i think classical music is pretty tight
OnlyAnchors 04.16.12	hardcore/punk is the best genre everyone stop being gay.
OnlyAnchors 04.16.12	but yeah theres no such thing as an objectively superior genre, they all have merits imo
Sirob 04.16.12	presidential funeralcore. best genre. stop arguing.
taylormemer 04.16.12	"classical doesn't have drums so no" See Philip Glass' "Concerto for Two Timpanists and Orchestra". Then you'll reconsider.
SCREAMorphine 04.16.12	I agree with OnlyAnchors
TheNotrap 04.16.12	There's no best genre, only good and bad music.
Archelaos 04.16.12	There's no such thing as an objectively 'best' genre though. Not in my opinion, at least. That said, classical music is among my favourite listening material.
Oathbreaker 04.16.12	lowercase is the best music genre
foxxxyroxxx 04.16.12	hair metal is objectively the best
Oathbreaker 04.16.12	When will the aphex twins compose their next symphony?
jefflebowski 04.16.12	Jazz then classical though obviously it's an extraordinarily stupid question to ask
Oathbreaker 04.16.12	lol jazz [2]
Oathbreaker 04.16.12	the funniest part is that you said jazz THEN classical
Ovrot 04.16.12	zeuhl is the best objectively
SpiritCrusher2 04.16.12	riffs are the best
jefflebowski 04.16.12	'the funniest part is that you said jazz THEN classical' yeah, that's pretty funny man, works on so many levels
LifeAsAChipmunk 04.16.12	"opera is objectively the worst genre" Deathcore? Glam/Hair Metal? Crunkcore?
PurpleDino 04.16.12	yeah pretty much there is no objectively best genre
fulgrim 04.16.12	cant really say which is best, but there are definately some that are better than others.
liledman 04.16.12	opera is really a form, and 'classical' as a genre is incredibly vague. do you mean the entirety of western classical music? hundreds of years of musical progression, in wildly different directions, in a multitude of forms and styles, as a single genre? ok, yeah its probably the best then. also remember that we really only hear the 'best' classical composers, as we have weeded out huge amounts of music from centuries of picky performers.
qwe3 04.16.12	by classical music do you mean the period of music between baroque and romantic or just orchestral music in general
qwe3 04.16.12	either way its stupid cuz there is no objectively better genre of music
ChuckyTruant 04.16.12	Yeah its all opinion, no such thing as a single greatest genre.
rockandmetaljunkie 04.16.12	Classical music is an awesome genre and one of my favorites for sure. But there is something that most people are not aware of. The European composers of the classical era wrote their music using Harmonic Minor and Harmonic Major scales exclusively. Despite the fact that they composed astonishing pieces of music they tended to reject the middle eastern scales. And as a musician you must never reject, cause you will end up confined and recycling the same basic ideas.
Hyperion1001 04.16.12	i think is the best music
Motiv3 04.16.12	either way its stupid cuz there is no objectively better genre of music [2]
taylormemer 04.16.12	@rockandmetaljunkie lol what a blind statement. Why stop at Middle-eartern scales? I mean, that is highly selective. You sound like a misinformed guitarist. All composers were highly influenced by the places they visited, and many forms of Middle-eastern music worked its way into the minds of composers as time progressed. It would have been nigh impossible at the time to gain an appropriate insight to a region's music if not physically exposed to its traditions and people - something which composers at the time rarely did; they were either popular live performers or writing for the monarchy. It is therefore understandable that given the lack of brisk transportation and immediate forms of communication, that European composers of the baroque-to-romantic eras weren't exposed to the East, and therefore did not implement it's forms within their music as readily as composers of the 20th century minimalist school did/do; they didn't "reject it" there was nothing to reject. This didn't mean such elements were never employed. Hell, Mozart composed the Rondo Alla Turca, a piece using primarily harmonic minor (and major) with colourations, to imitate the sound of a Turkish Janissary group. He also composed a whole opera revolving around Turkish despots, calling for "Turkish" style. This is but one example. As time went on, so did the concept of dissonance. This was due to technical boundaries and accepted practices. Another fact is that Middle-eastern scales use microtonalism far removed from standard equal temperament; these aren't simply interchangeable. Some scales exist that mimic the music of Arabia based upon equal temperament, but it's not quite the same effect. Do you see Arabic music of the time employing Western traditions? Remember that instruments at the time were specifically designed to handle the music written for them - yet another reason why equal temperament modes prevailed during these eras because when you have an instrument like the piano (the primary instrument for composition) it's not just as easy as pulling out that mutated locrian mode and calling it Middle-eastern. Take a look at Dvorak's 9th Symphony from late 1800s. It employs countless pentatonic forms which resemble melodies made by proto-Blues artists as per his visit to the America's during its composition. Beethoven's 6th Symphony employs similar folk forms of Germanic origins. All of Bartok's music is reflective of some region he new well of or visited. One way or another all composers were/are fanatical about new sounds and new things to make their music sound new - saying otherwise is flawed according to history.
PurpleDino 04.16.12	tl;dr
Maniac! 04.16.12	"I think any music that somehow reaches you emotionally has done its job. Whether its the most complex or simplest it doesnt matter. I mean compare Classical to the Delta Blues and you have two completely different forms of music which basically laid the groundwork for most of the music we hear today. Son House just sat on his bench with a guitar singing his heart out while Beethoven was composing symphonies. Both can reach you emotionally and you cant say one is better than the other." He said everything I was about to. Nice to see someone else talk about Delta Blues m/
Wolfhorde 04.16.12	"Nice to see someone else talk about Delta Blues m/" Why talk about it when I can listen to it.
taylormemer 04.16.12	"For a guy with a terrible music taste you sure know alot about music Taylor." For a girl with awful understanding of headphone technology, you sure know... hmm... not a lot actually, other than how to pimp Lateralus.
Maniac! 04.16.12	Because you obviously couldn't do both, Wolf.
Wolfhorde 04.16.12	For a girl with awful understanding of headphone technology, you sure know... hmm... not a lot actually [2] No, Brenno. I just choose to enjoy things rather than talking of things things I enjoy.
Funeralopolis 04.16.12	Talking about music is saved exclusively for the bands we hate.
PurpleDino 04.16.12	personally I've only had an emotional reaction to like 2 pieces of classical music and i don't know what they are called, so I've never really looked into it that much but I;ve heard shit loads of the stuff, it's pretty much the only radio station my dad listens to
crewdreary 04.16.12	its ironic that the word "objectively" was used because it instantly nulls the "best genre" concept
Wolfhorde 04.16.12	"its ironic that the word "objectively" was used because it instantly nulls the "best genre" concept" Thanks, Captain Obvious.
crewdreary 04.16.12	no problem chief
rockandmetaljunkie 04.16.12	"Why stop at Middle-eartern scales?" Who said about stoping ? Just use whatever you can to enrich your musical arsenal. "Another fact is that Middle-eastern scales use microtonalism far removed from standard equal temperament;" Of course. That's why using these scales, can be a real big challenge and the results of mixing european with "foreign" music can end up with some unbelieable pieces. "Remember that instruments at the time were specifically designed to handle the music written for them " Yes, another well known fact. I hope you understand that i don't question their abilities, but the sheer fact that they didn't do anything incorporate new elements. "these aren't simply interchangeable." I believe that anything can be mixed up in music. But you have to be a genius to make it sound appealing. When i try to write music i try to use as much material as i can. But most of the times the results are not good enough.
Emim 04.16.12	"classical doesn't have drums so no" i love you
wabbit 04.16.12	You guys are cueefs (that's a mix of cunt and queef) cause pretty much all the best songs use the same ten or so chords.
jefflebowski 04.16.12	yeh, Stockhausen stole all his best ideas from the Quo
taylormemer 04.17.12	"I hope you understand that i don't question their abilities, but the sheer fact that they didn't do anything incorporate new elements" lol Firstly, you disregarded my entire first paragraph, and you still have this weird idea of non-Western scales somehow adhering to equal temperament. I told you that they aren't merely interchangeable. I told you it wasn't about "rejection" either. There is a direct correlation between being immersed within a culture and its music, and the subsequent music which one composes. Western classical composers lived in Europe; their music was therefore inherently European. When these composers were able to travel or be properly acquainted with other forms they freely adapted these into their music without any reluctance. "Who said about stopping? Just use whatever you can to enrich your musical arsenal." Ok lets give you some examples which I have come across. BAROQUE Telemann Klingende Geographie "Singing Geography" (36 orchestral pieces, each reflecting a region around the world starting in Europe and ending in the Americas, some Turkish is present also) Rameau Les Indes Galantes "The Gallant Indies" (opera/ballet set in South America and Asia) CLASSICAL Mozart Rondo Alla Turca (Turkish rondo) Beethoven Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral" (Germanic folk song & bird song) Piano Sonata No. 23 "Appassionata" (English folk song) Twenty Five Scottish Songs (need I say more) Turkish dance (need I say more) The Turks were of great interest during this time due to their conquest of the Austro-Hungarian Empire; so it is not surprising that composers were using their musical forms! ROMANTIC Dvorak Symphony No. 9 "From the New World" (many references to proto-Blues and pentatonic scales of the United States) The Five: Incorporated many elements of eastern Russian influences into their music, which can more-or-less be referred to as being oriental 20TH CENTURY Bartok (literally everything Bartok wrote was some sort of reference to a region) Debussy (A lot of Debussy's colourful music is influenced by orientalism, particularly that of Indonesia) Glass The bloke visited India just to learn Buddhist chanting. He also wrote and opera about Akhnaten (Egyptian Pharaoh). He wrote a suite called Orion, with each movement being related to a specific continent. So I mean. What do you really have to say? Other than - "they didn't incorporate new elements"
paxman 04.17.12	TaylorMemer is objectively the best user here
liledman 04.17.12	"Classical music is an awesome genre and one of my favorites for sure. But there is something that most people are not aware of. The European composers of the classical era wrote their music using Harmonic Minor and Harmonic Major scales exclusively. Despite the fact that they composed astonishing pieces of music they tended to reject the middle eastern scales. And as a musician you must never reject, cause you will end up confined and recycling the same basic ideas." ok am i going to have to teach you about chromaticism? modulation? modal interchange? neapolitan/augmented 6th chords? since when were scales everything? they did not just use the harmonic minor and harmonic major in the classical period. they used the regular major more than the harmonic major, as well as using natural minor for non-cadential purposes. then getting out of diatonic music, they had atonality! liszt wrote a piano sonata with no key centre in the late 19th century, schoenberg abandoned it all and created new ways of organising dodecaphonic music, stravinsky used folk music and folklore, messiaen used bird sounds and created his own 'modes of limited transposition' as well as drawing on greek and indian rhythms, john cage and morton feldman used graphs and indeterminacy, then there were tapes and synths... stop thinking about scales and start thinking about everything else. no composer, from baroque period on, has been tied down to these scales you mention. if you place too much emphasis on scales, you may end up confined.
paxman 04.17.12	Burn
taylormemer 04.17.12	Dude has clearly lost.
paxman 04.17.12	Too bad I know pretty much nothing about this stuff....
taylormemer 04.17.12	It's not really important to know; unless you're studying it as a career. Just listen to the tunes and if they rule then thrash hard. c/
liledman 04.17.12	its more important to listen widely first, i would say, rather than just learning all of this stuff for the sake of it. listen to everything, then study/research what interests you.
Chrisjon89 04.17.12	"also remember that we really only hear the 'best' classical composers, as we have weeded out huge amounts of music from centuries of picky performers." I know nothing about classical but I think this is true of alot of genres and a good counter argument to people who say old music is way better than what's happening today.
qwe3 04.17.12	"I know nothing about classical but I think this is true of alot of genres and a good counter argument to people who say old music is way better than what's happening today." the best counter argument.
qwe3 04.17.12	aw you broke it baseline naughty baseline put that back where you found it