Funeralopolis: ___ Can Go And...

Funeralopolis 03.06.12	yea
AliW1993 03.06.12	I'm an angry young person also, so I agree with the vast majority of these. Also most of these albums are awesome, especially the Melvins and Eels ones.
JohnnyoftheWell 03.06.12	14 is sooo true 36 however, is not a valid hate; they're right
Auschwitz 03.06.12	i hate extreme liberals who think world peace can be achieved and are too pussy to have an opinion that offends anyone.
Dimor 03.06.12	lol 40,41,46
bakkermaarten007 03.06.12	This is actually a nice list. If you fail again and again for math pay for after school lessons, that's what I did . Though I didn't fail, but it was close at a point, just couldn't pay attention in class and had to study everything by myself.
Funeralopolis 03.06.12	Ya I really need to do that but I am broke, however a tutor would cost less than retaking the course. I had to drop my Advanced Functions class with 15% in the class. The worst part is I actually go to class and study.
BaseballJames 03.06.12	Agree with 1, 6, 7, 15, 17, 18, 21, 29, 31, 33, 39, 44, 46, and 47. I'm guilty of 41.
guitarnater 03.06.12	1-50. Yes. Well, you can keep 29.
Vesper 03.06.12	lol contradictions "People who wear Burberry scarves, seriously if you have one of those counterfeit light brown scarves go fuck yourself." "Uggs." "Track pants, I call them 'Idgaf pants'." >> "People who over react and freak the fuck out because of how someone dresses/ looks." Wearing your mass-produced shit?? GO FUCK YOURSELF. Not an overreaction at all. "Emos who don't know what emo music is." >>"People who dress up based around the music they listen to." So, technically, aren't 'emos' commendable, by your standards, in not matching their look to emo music? Or are you complaining that they appropriated the 'term'? "The majority of death metal." >>"People who automatically hate deathcore just for being the genre it is. I am not a big fan of it but writing it off just because of the genre is so closed-minded." I'm gonna assume you haven't actually heard the majority of death metal out there, because you would have stopped before then if you disliked it so much, so you're probably writing it off too. "(Who the hell hates blacks anymore besides 90 year old women?)" lol are you fucking serious
Maniac! 03.06.12	dude chill
Maniac! 03.06.12	I personally hate when people use "gay" and "retard" as derogatory remarks. I seem to be one of few nowadays.
Funeralopolis 03.06.12	@Vesper: the first one true, I am a hypocrite and should go fuck myself. emo thing: I don't believe it is contradictory, if you are going to dress up and abide a culture called 'emo' you should at least know what emo is. death metal: people write off all deathcore though, I will still give death metal a chance but most of what I heard I don't like. blacks: oh I forgot you hate them.
ThroneOfAgony 03.06.12	Lol dude #1 is me so hard
Eulogize 03.06.12	Fuck you for 42.
Vesper 03.06.12	Yeah, but people who bitch about some high school kids not knowing what TRUE EMO is are just making a big deal out of nothing. It doesn't affect your life, so just ignore it and it pretty much dies after high school anyway. I don't jump on people who say they like bm and by that, they mean stuff like WitTR. I won't trust their musical opinion on the genre, but I'm not going to think they're not allowed to say they like black metal, because they do, even if it isn't the 'trve' 90s stuff. That's childish. How do you know the people who 'write off deathcore' haven't listened to just as many songs as you have for death metal? Deathcore is easy to make fun of, because it's largely seen as a trend, just like the way you think of scenecore. oh yah i hate teh blacks so much great comeback bro give me another
chambered69 03.06.12	well this is interesting
ThroneOfAgony 03.06.12	what is emo music is it skrillex
Auschwitz 03.06.12	29 is me, and 33 to an extent.
Funeralopolis 03.06.12	emo: but my chemical , fallout boy etc. isn't emo that is the point, it simply is not that genre of music. This is the audience I am referring to. It gives the entire emo scene a bad rep because people associate them with these pop punk bands. it's ok bro.
MMX 03.06.12	I pretty much agree with you for most of these, except on 40 ONLY THE FIRST 151 POKEMON MATTER
Vesper 03.06.12	Why the hell do you care about the rep of the emo scene? Its feelings aren't going to get hurt.
jdennis31 03.06.12	i like weed, i like vodka, i like sputnik, and i like you. that's all you need to know.
bakkermaarten007 03.06.12	I probably hate 43 as much as you do, but I must confess i'm guilty of 29. It's true though.
bakkermaarten007 03.06.12	"Why the hell do you care about the rep of the emo scene? Its feelings aren't going to get hurt." Probably because if one manages to look past all the shit that carries the name one could find many treasures that will make all your previous music never sound as beautiful as before.
Tyrannic 03.06.12	"my name is funeral, and i approved this whining"
Funeralopolis 03.06.12	yea I do approve it.
Vesper 03.06.12	"Probably because if one manages to look past all the shit that carries the name one could find many treasures that will make all your previous music never sound as beautiful as before." If people really won't listen to shit because they think it's the same thing as stuff like Fall Out Boy or what have you, they're probably just dumb, and that can't be helped by the valiant efforts of indignant Internet warriors seeking to correct the unjustly maligned name of emo.
Tyrannic 03.06.12	"women's fashion is getting fucking ridiculous" really now? i would LOVE to hear your opinion on the world of fashion. PLEASE enlighten me.
bakkermaarten007 03.06.12	^@Vesper you're right. I'm chasing a dream.
jdennis31 03.06.12	@vesper i want you... i want you so baaaaddd babeee. i want yououououououu... i want you sooo bad it's drivin me mad it's drivin meeee mad
Funeralopolis 03.06.12	Well me personally I like men's fashion options lol they seem to be growing in number while women's fashion seems to be becoming more uniform unfortunately. Not in all cases but it is enough to notice.
Tyrannic 03.06.12	you know, my grandpa used to tell me: "Tyrannic," (yes, he did refer to me by my username), "ladies your age got no class, it seems like they're all just dressin' like flappers for all the broo-ha-ha that comes from those shenanigans. it's straight hoop-dee-hah how young ladies in your age dress." why do you sound like my made-up grandfather?
Yotimi 03.06.12	44? maybe you need to just dig a little deeper
Funeralopolis 03.06.12	I didn't even once say they dress slutty lol I just said that their fashion isn't as eclectic as it used to be.
someguest 03.06.12	"(Who the hell hates blacks anymore besides 90 year old women?)" Anybody who puts up with them on a daily basis.
Funeralopolis 03.06.12	@Yotimi: feel free to rec me some movies: -I don't like action movies. -I generally either like a deep, thought provoking plot or comedy.
bakkermaarten007 03.06.12	Thought provoking you say? Watch 'The Sunset Limited'
someguest 03.06.12	"Well me personally I like men's fashion options lol they seem to be growing in number while women's fashion seems to be becoming more uniform unfortunately. Not in all cases but it is enough to notice." lol at this jeans and t shirt fo lyfe brah
lucasjcockcroft 03.06.12	i hate this and this and that. oh and fuck you ;)
Oathbreaker 03.06.12	Y u so rustled
ConsiderPhlebas 03.06.12	Words change through popular usage, that's how language has evolved since it began. You could tell the world gay still means happy, but it wouldn't. Emo was always a loose term (widely derided by the bands who got stuck with it), and it stretched to cover melodic punk bands of a certain type - The Get Up Kids etc. It aint gonna affect any bands like American Football, Christie Front Drive, Sense Field, or the hardcore bands that kids call screamo, if some pop punk kid gets called emo by the tabloid reading masses. If toking on bongs at home makes you care about this shit, maybe you shouldn't be allowed.
lucasjcockcroft 03.06.12	but yeah i agree with alot of these.
Funeralopolis 03.06.12	don't take away me bongs :(
ncguitar 03.06.12	151 pokemon are the only good ones, chill the fuck out and let's go slang sthg
Inveigh 03.06.12	51. People who actually care about Pokemon.
Spec 03.06.12	not screamo it's scramz duh
bakkermaarten007 03.06.12	"not screamo it's scramz duh" sKramz is invented for those who don't want to be associated with bands like asking alexandria (cause teenagers will call that crap screamo). Screamo is the correct term, however skramz may be better for making your point to a person who associates screamo with beforementioned crap bands.
ConsiderPhlebas 03.06.12	Correct terms don't matter. Stop caring about them and your life will get better.
bakkermaarten007 03.06.12	My life is already doomed.
tarkus 03.06.12	I don't have a political view because I'm a freshman in highschool and still trying to figure out what makes sense
SaneTBP 03.06.12	"I personally hate when people use "gay" and "retard" as derogatory remarks." Yea me too.
jdennis31 03.06.12	i actually quit calling people "gay" and "fag" but still use "retard" quite a bit. it's a scientific term for slow, so i don't see anything wrong with it.
Cells 03.06.12	Funeral what a great fucking list. I agree with so many of these except 32 and 22. Also I think im the only yank here who actually does cut trees! haha
lucasjcockcroft 03.06.12	what about fairy? thats what i say instead of gay now. better i think.
Sowing 03.06.12	How about: "bosses that give you all the responsibility then blame you for their own failures" That would apply to me right now.
SaneTBP 03.06.12	Well that is kinda raw thing to say. Still could be better.
lucasjcockcroft 03.06.12	How about: "bosses that give you all the responsibility then blame you for their own failures" my boss fucking rules, so sucks for you.
AsoTamaki 03.06.12	3 is true. 4 is often the correct position. 7 is you. 29 is you. 34 is foolish to say from an objective standpoint. 47 is exactly what they're doing.
MO 03.06.12	"First-person shooters." whoa man whoa no way
MO 03.06.12	also lol "'you butthurt?' 'I don't even care, clearly you are butthurt' 'no you are!' Fuck you both." "People who get butthurt over things that nobody should be offended by."
Trebor. 03.06.12	Agree with most of this And yeah why does every modern game have to be a faggy first person shooters. What happened to my beloved platformers?
AlasKenColors 03.06.12	Haha, i agree with most of these. Especially 13, 43, and 47.
ConsiderPhlebas 03.06.12	Harsh vocals are surely supposed to be socially abrasive and unacceptable to the masses. What do you want, an endorsement from the president?
Trebor. 03.06.12	People who think their personal beliefs should be law and vote as such
Vesper 03.06.12	^ Uh, technically, everyone does that, unless you vote for things you don't believe to be right or lawful. You probably just see some personal beliefs as more destructive than others. "it's a scientific term for slow, so i don't see anything wrong with it." It's because it stigmatizes those with mental disabilities, equating people who are acting or saying something stupid to people with actual disabilities. It also perpetuates ableism in making it acceptable to make fun of mentally disabled people, even if you don't intend it that way.
climactic 03.06.12	agree with most of this but....42? no way
jdennis31 03.06.12	@vesper i tried to serenade you earlier and you just left. messed up dawg. and that's a good explanation, but it sounds like you make it seem as if its my responsibility how society views the term.
ConsiderPhlebas 03.06.12	"It's because it stigmatizes those with mental disabilities, equating people who are acting or saying something stupid to people with actual disabilities. It also perpetuates ableism in making it acceptable to make fun of mentally disabled people, even if you don't intend it that way." Have to disagree with this, dude, at least to a point. There is certainly a way - or many ways - where using the term 'retard' as an insult can perpetuate ableism and stigmatize the mentally disabled, but I don't think it's the case in every instance. There are unspoken rules of insulting one another, where the term is not intended to be connected to the thing it typically signifies. If two people entirely opposed to the negative connotations of the word use it to insult one another, it could just as easily be in an ironic sense, where the real butt of the insult is the very idea that 'retard' is an insult. In much the same way that 'gay' as an insult can actually be used to mock the daft masculine ideal of a purely heterosexual, 'normal' man.
Hyperion1001 03.06.12	"A fair portion of death metal." so you suck? ujellymadbro??? butthurt fag??
iambandersnatch 03.06.12	A lot of this is correct, so props. 42 is pretty random though, there are some fun / thought-provoking FPSs that aren't just mindless pew-pew. And even then, what's wrong with a little mindless shoot-em-up when you don't want to think? I'm totally with you on 44. Great TV series (and even just good/mediocre ones) blow 99% of movies out of the water. I have arguments with my gf and other people about this. Movies are mostly a waste of time. Oh look.. a character/setting I like!.. oh oops the movie is over, no more of that character/setting ever (unless there's going to be a sequel in which case you have to wait for a year or two at least).
Vesper 03.06.12	@dennis - Well, if it makes you feel better, I was very flattered............ haha. I don't see why it can't be part of your responsibility, since you make that distinction with using the words 'gay' and 'fag' - society is not some entity beyond our control, at least, not entirely, so you can do your part, however small it is. That said, I don't actually think you think of mentally disabled people as lesser human beings... (unless you do, ha.) @Phlebas - I'd agree with you to a certain extent, too. I don't automatically assume anybody who uses potentially problematic insults, whether it be retard, faggot, or pussy, is actually ableist, homophobic, or sexist, at least, not in any malicious, fully-intentional way. However, doesn't the insulting nature of these words depend upon their context of discrimination and hate? That is, it's shameful/embarrassing/bad to be associated with seemingly slow-minded people, or those flaming fags, or those weak women. How do they function as insults without instilling the desire to not be called those things? You'll have to give me an example of this ironic usage of 'gay', at least, as far as the way it's used by professed heterosexuals (I think of sexuality as a spectrum, but for argument's sake, assume I'm referring to a discrete group). Reclamation of derogatory terms by the actual oppressed group, such as the way 'queer' has been reclaimed, is a different argument.
gabethepiratesquid 03.06.12	There isn't such a thing as objectively good or bad music tho :((
UnnamedOcean 03.06.12	I really don't understand when people say "music is subjective, there is no such thing as a bad taste in music."
iFghtffyrdmns 03.06.12	learn to fucking math godddddd
gabethepiratesquid 03.06.12	@Unnamed: It's true, though. There' is no such thing as a bad taste in music. Just tastes you disagree with. The only tastes I'd consider "bad". I mean that doesn't mean you can't argue why you think X band sucks and the other person can't defend it, but that doesn't mean they have bad taste. It's like if I was at a museum with a friend and they were like, "I like this painting" and I'd be like, "YOU'RE WRONG YOU IDIOT IT'S TERRIBLE YOUR TASTE IS AWFUL."
jdennis31 03.06.12	@vesper yah i guess i actually can't disagree with that. but the only reason i don't like to use the terms "gay" and "fag" is because i used to call my friend that all the time and then he came out the closet. i felt terrible and wouldn't want to make the same mistake again, even tho he was really cool with it.
jdennis31 03.06.12	i guess it's quite possible i could call someone retarded that was actually mentally handicapped tho...
ConsiderPhlebas 03.06.12	"However, doesn't the insulting nature of these words depend upon their context of discrimination and hate? That is, it's shameful/embarrassing/bad to be associated with seemingly slow-minded people, or those flaming fags, or those weak women. How do they function as insults without instilling the desire to not be called those things?" Undoubtedly there are issues with the words mentioned, issues that do contribute heavily to the notion of women, the disabled, the non-heterosexual as 'others' to be derided. And yeah, the use of them as insults in any given situation engages with the grimy reality of their position as insults. But the only way to stop them being used as insults (or so it seems) is to make them taboo, which ultimately gives them a renewed sense of power, adding to the negative effect they're capable of. A group of open-minded, vehemently non-homophobic guys calling each 'gay' when one of them does something even vaguely 'effeminate' is really just laughing at the idea that being gay is bad, that a dude should feel bad because he went beyond the boundaries of what a strictly heterosexual male should do. Having the words as taboos promotes the idea of 'tolerance' which really means 'I hate you, but I'll let you live'. Rinse the words of their energy and people stop getting so defensive about 'political correctness'. I'm not 100% on this, just throwing some ideas around based on my own experiences.
Aphrodisiac 03.07.12	god
ConsiderPhlebas 03.07.12	"You'll have to give me an example of this ironic usage of 'gay', at least, as far as the way it's used by professed heterosexuals (I think of sexuality as a spectrum, but for argument's sake, assume I'm referring to a discrete group)." Didn't see this somehow. I think the same about sexuality, although only in recent years after much consideration. When I refer to 'strictly heterosexual' people, I mean people that don't acknowledge any hint of non-heterosexuality within themselves.
VinVal 03.07.12	you butthurt?
ChuckyTruant 03.07.12	Love for 40 & 41
ChuckyTruant 03.07.12	And about 36, I personally have never heard anyone describe all emo music as songs about girls
ChuckyTruant 03.07.12	and agree with 17 also
J0ckstrapsFTW 03.07.12	^^^^^ that's so gay
J0ckstrapsFTW 03.07.12	15 makes me so angry omg
ChuckyTruant 03.07.12	how is that gay
Recspecs 03.07.12	I probably would have agreed with whatever you put, but list I too long. Don't give a fuck.
spillingmercury 03.07.12	A group of open-minded, vehemently non-homophobic guys calling each 'gay' when one of them does something even vaguely 'effeminate' is really just laughing at the idea that being gay is bad, that a dude should feel bad because he went beyond the boundaries of what a strictly heterosexual male should do. Having the words as taboos promotes the idea of 'tolerance' which really means 'I hate you, but I'll let you live'. The problem I have with this then is that this concludes that being "gay" means that there are activities in which heterosexuals participate in that homosexuals do not, or vice versa. Unless that said heterosexual is going out of his way to flirt with another of the same gender or such, branding people as "gay" simply because they have effeminate actions is just as damaging as using "gay" to call out things that are stupid. I don't believe its ever used with the intention to attack homosexually, unless you actually have that big of an issue with it, but I think its born out of ignorance that really shouldn't have to be continued. The LGBT community is pretty big in the school I'm from, and I realized since then I've honestly stopped using the words "faggot," "gay," etc. simply because there's really no way to defend yourself from using those words. If you want to insult someone or call someone out on something, there's a million other words to go for. Also fashion these days for women is restricting? wtf. I don't know what chicks you've been hanging out with but the only thing I would say about fashion trends these days is that its highly derivative of old styles, namely the 80s and maybe 20s/30s, but that's because looking like you've raided the thrift store is the thing (or at least in Hipster New York). Even then there's a huge amount of diversity and acceptance to what women can wear. I don't know anyone who's inclined towards giving a shit about what they wear to regularly rock yoga pants.
ConsiderPhlebas 03.07.12	I'm well aware there's other words, thanks. What I'm suggesting is that an eye toward total inclusion of people of all so called 'social categories', mixed with an attack on the idea of those words as insults, might offer a more effective solution to the issues mentioned. Branding someone as 'gay' for an effeminate action would be homophobic, and that is very clearly not what I was talking about. I was talking about making fun of the idea that 'effeminate' (the speech marks are kinda a hint here) actions are in any way bad, or even exist.
Erratic 03.07.12	41 made me lol
theashesfromautumn01 03.07.12	2 is actually a thing?
theashesfromautumn01 03.07.12	27 meant
spillingmercury 03.07.12	But there's a difference in making fun of gender roles where certain things can be branded as effeminate or masculine and such, and making fun of sexual stereotypes. It's not so much that femininity can be bad or good, it has more to do with the fact that if something vaguely effeminate happens among men, it can be poked fun of as something "gay." whether or not the intention is to support homosexuality, refute hostility or branding towards homosexuality, or refute gender identities that still exist, it still draws a connection between one's sexuality and one's mannerisms as a certain gender. Maybe I'm just not getting what you mean by 'effeminate' in quotations, though. I understand that you understand that gay having connotations with an effeminate action is homophobic, but by the next sentence it jumps from making fun of supposed effeminate nature, rather than ignorance towards homosexuality. I don't mean to upset you in anyway, but I don't really understand your argument towards satirizing the use of the word "gay" by using the word gay to mean anything more than what its supposed to so as to spread more-than-tolerance.
spillingmercury 03.07.12	shut up mercury I'm happy to include you in this discussion if you want. You need only ask politely.
ChuckyTruant 03.07.12	shut up mercury
spillingmercury 03.07.12	wow. I feel so incredibly important now. thanks guys.
someguest 03.07.12	"I think of sexuality as a spectrum" hahahahahaha
Vesper 03.07.12	@Phlebas - I get where you're coming from, as I've seen this argument before, as well as it having been successful in some cases (and usually because the group itself enacted this reclamation), but I really think it's not feasible on any large scale or with any consistency, especially given the variability of experience. You're positing a situation in which these homophobic insults are used ironically by heterosexual male parties who are, nevertheless, all knowledgeable of the connotations, and are actively seeking to deconstruct and divorce the term from its original meaning. You can't honestly say that this situation is even close to a significant portion of the exchanges in which these words are used or that this is something that can ever be expected in a concerted effort (if it was, we could just as easily agree to just not to be homophobic, racist, sexist, etc.). This is all to say that slurs are the least of my concerns - they're just symptoms of institutionalized problems, but I simply don't think yours is the best form of attack. And, to be frank, I take issue with historically dominant groups having any kind of final say in these matters. Not that members of such groups can't contribute or be empathetic, of course, but the point is that as far as usage of the words go, it's up to the historically oppressed group to decide how they're used. (There seems to be much less gray area about this when it comes to racial epithets.)
Vesper 03.07.12	someguest, I thought we agreed to never interact again, so kindly fuck off.
GnarlyShillelagh 03.07.12	32 so hard Also I hate fags, but I do not hate gay people
someguest 03.07.12	I just think that's a ridiculous approach to it. Don't smear your makeup over it.
Vesper 03.07.12	If you think you're so decidedly heterosexual or homosexual, that's up to you, I just don't think you have any say in anyone else's construction of sexuality.
BallsToTheWall 03.07.12	People who claim they have no religious view or political view. Get a fucking opinion. No thanks, i'm cool where i'm at.
someguest 03.07.12	I see many of the people with that viewpoint using it has a reason to sleep with anyone at anytime without backing their decisions up. I think everyone knows where they stand sexually, but some people can't deal with it. It's not like you wake up one morning and do a 180 on yourself.
WeepingBanana 03.07.12	How about people that have no political views because the political system that is currently in place is inherently destructive and so by removing yourself you're not adding fuel to the fire. also lol what straight guy complains about yoga pants?
Vesper 03.07.12	Well, exactly, I don't think most people discover their sexuality by just waking up one morning and deciding they're homosexual. It's a process that, for a lot of people, will mean some experimentation to figure out what they want. And there are so many variations in conjunction with other aspects of gender expression (for example, what would attraction towards androgynous women/men be classified as?) that it's a huge simplification to attempt to squeeze everything into three categories of hetero, bi, and homo. I don't quite get what you mean by people using it as a reason to sleep with people without backing their decisions up. That's just people casually hooking up. It also happens to sometimes be with people of the same sex. I don't know these people, but that seems to be more about their attitudes towards sex than their sexual identity.
BallsToTheWall 03.07.12	also lol what straight guy complains about yoga pants? Here....here....Weeping you are the man. I tip my cap sir.
WeepingBanana 03.07.12	seriously even all of my super feminist friends hate it when people call out yoga pants
BallsToTheWall 03.07.12	I have a pretty hot yoga teacher myself and I support the cause. No idea how I haven't popped a boner yet though because her movements are foxy.
someguest 03.07.12	chicks like wearing them and dudes like looking at them. never heard anyone complain myself. vesper, I think that people kind of know what their sexual identity is even when they claim they don't. that's why they 'experiment', to back up the feelings they already have.
Funeralopolis 03.07.12	I said in my list that I like how they look but I am just pointing out how uniformly women's fashion appears to be becoming.
WeepingBanana 03.07.12	well people have the right to wear whatever they want seriously, people complaining about fashion is the most retarded things ever. if you don't like how people dress, what the fuck are you gonna do? convince them otherwise? forcibly change it? or you could... ya know grow up and not give a shit like a sane person
BallsToTheWall 03.07.12	I said in my list that I like how they look but I am just pointing out how uniformly women's fashion appears to be becoming. hasnt that always been the case?
Samshine 03.07.12	defs just posted in the wrong thread, woops
spillingmercury 03.07.12	hasnt that always been the case? More or less. But I can't imagine why he would think it's becoming more uniformly when this age has more options and freedom in style than any other in the last century, to say the least.
ConsiderPhlebas 03.07.12	No, I'm not saying that, vesper, you're right. But so many of the freedoms we enjoy in England are labeled as 'political correctness' by the vast majority of the population, and that ultimately does damage to those freedoms. This happens because certain things are made absolutely taboo, which promotes an underlying hatred, a sense that the state (which is often seen as corrupt and self- serving) is taking the side of a particular group. I'm not saying this is fair, but it happens. What I'm suggesting is far from perfect, but to abolish certain words to certain people is to deny the ability to satirize the oppression that the words, on one level, represent in the first place. A racist joke, or a homophobic one, are based on the reductive, essentialist views of humanity that allow those ideologies to prosper. But a 'racist' or 'homophobic' joke that very obviously makes fun of racism or homophobia is more likely to promote a little thought - and less defensiveness - than simply telling someone that racism or homophobia is bad. Banter brings people together, at least in my experience, and having someone's race or sexual orientation be a complete no-no in every instance effectively removes people from the sphere of 'normal' social interaction and places them in an artificial bubble. State enforced tolerance promotes segregation, which in turn creates the mentality of them-vs-us, on both sides. The idea that prohibition of any kind can save or protect people from what is potentially wrong or harmful is too conservative. The very act of prohibition creates desire for the prohibited thing, so the act is automatically self-defeating, in that it creates a rule that provokes people to break it. There needs to be a way to blur the edges of social categorization if there is ever going to be real steps towards equality. Law is too blunt a tool for the job.
Vesper 03.07.12	Phlebas, I have never once advocated a state-enforced censorship. That's not the kind of social pressure I'm talking about, and I would never wish it. I'm asking for people to become more socially responsible, free from the state. There are some hints at this with, say, widespread public and corporate denunciation of Rush Limbaugh in light of his attacks on Sandra Fluke. I don't want state-enforced tolerance. I want people-enforced tolerance. I see no problems with social ostracization of willfully hateful people, since these social contracts of behavior largely drive what is considered right or wrong in how you treat and what you say to other people, even if there aren't laws governing them. Satirical jokes between consenting parties is fine with me - I participate in it occasionally, as well, so I know what you're talking about. There are points where it can be taken too far, but I'll tell the person to tone it down, in that case - it does, however, highlight for me that these sorts of words are largely one-sided. That these words can be taken too far in regards to my being a woman or not white, but it rarely seems the case that I can take this kind of banter too far with a white man, because there is never any real threat or painful history. The fact is, I don't think most people are that great at jokes or on-point satire - it's really easy for things like to to be misinterpreted beyond circles of friends (or even within them). I also just don't see how what essentially amounts to in-jokes between people who ALREADY have egalitarian mindsets can have any discernible influence on people outside those circles, especially those who aren't egalitarian in the least, much less institutionalized racism, sexism, etc.
Eulogize 03.07.12	Dear god look at those blocks of text.
Vesper 03.07.12	Sorry, should I break it down for you? (Or is it break it up?)
Eulogize 03.07.12	You should make a breakdown of it. ba dum tshhhhh
ConsiderPhlebas 03.07.12	Sorry for the length of this... part 1: I got a bit off point with the state-enforced stuff, wasn't trying to suggest you were down with that. These thoughts have been circling in my head over recent months and years, primarily because of the depressing culture that's building against things like free speech and social equality in England at the moment. Undeniably the use of these terms as satire/banter etc can degenerate into, or at least touch upon, the bleaker side of the ideas that they're being used to poke fun at. But is this enough to warrant their exclusion, altogether? Even an unspoken ban would imbue them with all the energy of a taboo, so the call to the darker aspect of people's nature would still be there. The examples I give of jokes etc are really just the face of a broader idea, one that is born of a hope for social responsibility, but also the belief that some element of conflict is endemic to the human race. Tolerance doesn't bring with it any sense of social inclusion, doesn't attempt to acknowledge that race, gender, sexual identity aren't concrete factors of our lives. All it does is provide a barrier, a thin veneer that covers all the assumptions, misinterpretations and antagonism that exists between different groups within a society, or even the world at large.
ConsiderPhlebas 03.07.12	part 2: (last part) There seems to be a danger of repression here, of producing the opposite effect to the one desired. I'd suggest a type of social responsibility that engages fully with all these concepts, that explores and questions essentialism at every turn. The oppression, in all its levels of severity, of people who aren't white, male, middle-aged, middle-class and able-bodied needs to stop; I just don't think a blanket response to the typical signifiers of racism, sexism etc is as useful as common sense might suggest. My own experience of these matters is very limited, I have to admit, but for a number of years I worked in terrible jobs – factories, slaughter-houses, bin collection – and in almost every instance where I was working with non-white guys, racial slurs actually brought us together. Some of these guys had actually been in gangs that had started fights with me or people I knew, so at points things were tense. We were all, to a man, entirely uneducated, and often from violent, racist, sexist backgrounds. Bantering with one another actually dispelled the elephant in the room and was the catalyst for us becoming aware that we had a lot more in common than we thought. Occasionally it spilled over into arguments, even fights, but it was always resolved. So what I'm saying is, there is no need for any real skill in regards to satire etc, because the potential for drawing people together through measured antagonism is more a case of acknowledging that antagonism in the first place. In more polite company I tend to see segregation and a palpable fear of causing offense, which seems harmful to everyone involved.