TheSpirit: My Essential Black Metal

TheSpirit 06.06.10	wtf 8
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Anubi is pretty cool, although I'd hardly describe it as "genre-mashing" - it's just odd. If you're going to include Gontyna Kry, "Welowie" is the best work. And "Firmament" is by far the superior work by Midnight Odyssey. As for the rest... I don't think you really understand what "essential" means, and referencing personal tastes in your description only goes to show it. None of these albums are essential, neither to black metal as a whole, or to understanding the genre.
Zip 06.06.10	props for being original, I mean it
TheSpirit 06.06.10	I wasn't huge fans of Welowie or Firmament compared to the albums I listed. I feel they are "essential" because they all fucking own and everybody should have them.
Athom 06.06.10	who cares. lil jon finally leaked.
TheSpirit 06.06.10	Who cares Kingdom of Sorrow leaked
ShadowRemains 06.06.10	"Because favorite of all time. Rating 10/5" you would rate it higher if you could, don't lie :P
Hyperbore 06.06.10	So, you prefer to tell people about things you personally like over telling them about things they're more likely to appreciate? I could go on for ages about how much Ungod's "Circle of the Seven Infernal Pacts" and Resuscitator's "Initiation" appeal to me, but if I'm trying to inform someone as to what defines black metal -i.e., what its essentials are- I'm obviously going to reference Darkthrone, Immortal, Graveland, etc., over anything too obscure.
Dryden 06.06.10	its better then seeing the same "essentials" over and over and over again but this could just be a digs list just as well. been into alot of rawbm and nsbm latley
ShadowRemains 06.06.10	what dryden said... he might be reccing them to people hyperbore...
R6Rider 06.06.10	list is pretty good
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Well, Dryden, that's what I'm trying to point out. If it's ESSENTIAL, of course it's going to referenced over and over again. Anything that's not as recognized cannot, by definition, be called essential. Thus the term's misuse. Essential =! best.
Hyperion1001 06.06.10	I need almost all of these. Although i do already have In Tormentata Quiete and Godkiller. Native American black metal, now i really have see it all...
Dryden 06.06.10	yeah i agree. when i got asked to make a dm essential list i got annoyed since there was a lot and i gave random bands and that made a lot of people mad since it wasnt truely the essential for the genre and just digs. this is like "digs that u should really check out" but o well
TheSpirit 06.06.10	okay well i changed titled so people would stop bitching.
Dryden 06.06.10	it doesnt really bother me at all but becides that theres a few here im thinking of looking into
Yazz_Flute 06.06.10	I've only heard one of these (guess which) haha...not that i've ever been too big into black metal. 1 and 3 sounds interesting though.
TheSpirit 06.06.10	1 and a few other of these can be found on my blog
Hyperbore 06.06.10	TheSpirit, first of all, nobody is "bitching." Your misuse of a term has led to a discussion of its meaning. Now you're saying that one side of that discussion's arguments amount to nothing more than complaining; in essence, you're saying that the only way anyone could criticize you is by whining. Which amounts to claiming that you're beyond valid criticism. Pretty immature. Second, it doesn't matter if you changed the title or not - the discussion still exists. And third, you didn't really change it - calling it "MY essentials" only goes to show you really don't know what the term means after all.
ShadowRemains 06.06.10	lol srs buzness guise
qwe3 06.06.10	yeah its really nothing to bitch over guys if the list is some obscure stuff he obv meant it was his esential bm but oh well bitches gonna bitch
TheSpirit 06.06.10	Hyperbore- I really just don't care. Really.
buckfutter 06.06.10	Hyperbore- Change your tampon dude. It's his essential, not yours. Chill out, take a ritalin, and go curl up with a nice children's book
ShadowRemains 06.06.10	roflmfao
Emim 06.06.10	I'm not at a point where I'd call any BM essential, except for maybe Crimson Moonlight. I'm sure this list slays though.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	buckfutter - there's no such thing as "his" essentials, or yours, or mine. Go curl up with a dictionary ;)
buckfutter 06.06.10	Hyperbore- Forget the ritalin, because it's obviously not gonna help mental retardation. Oh, and btw Spirit, I'll check all of these out.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Well, I already knew that, but what makes you bring it up? You tried giving it to your kid and got disappointed when he continued eating paint chips?
buckfutter 06.06.10	Hyperbore- That was a really nice try. Very good. I'll put a gold star by your name. Ya gotta be encouraging to people with special needs.
buckfutter 06.06.10	Oh, and by the way, something can be PERSONALLY essential. Not everything is essential to everyone. Heroin is essential to a smack addict, but not to me. Meds are essential to a cancer patient, but not me. See the point?
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Heroin is essential to a heroin addict because without it he will go into withdrawal. Medications, similarly, are essential to a cancer patient because without them he will die. So, what is black metal essential for?
buckfutter 06.06.10	It's essential to his collection. If you want to argue semantics and bitch about how YOUR favorite albums are'nt on here, go ahead. All it does is make you look like a fucking fool. And the fact that you are a "walking dictionary" either means you are extremely intelligent or you haven't popped your cherry yet.... I'll go for the latter.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	For someone who likes to throw out accusations of idiocy at every possibly opportunity, you sure don't read very well. The only mention of things I personally like was to exemplify how mentioning such things among a list of essentials is mistaken. But, like you said - nice try ;) So, they're essential to his collection? As in, not anyone else's collection?
buckfutter 06.06.10	Just because you can type doesn't mean you should use a computer, considering that what you basically said really didn't make any sense whatsoever, and didn't have anything to do with my last post. "So, they're essential to his collection? As in, not anyone else's collection?" THERE YA GO!!!!!!!! Now, instead of trying to boost your self-esteem by arguing semantics over the English language, why don't you loosen your sphincter and appreciate that this is what he likes and enjoys, and not a list of what you like and enjoy.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Once again, read better. It made sense, so either you're ignoring what was said, or you're unable to read. So, since these albums are essential to his collection, it wouldn't be his collection anymore if he suddenly lost one of them?
rasputin 06.06.10	roflmao buckfutter, you're an idiot. hyperbore is right he's not trying to say the list or the albums are bad, in fact he said how he liked them in one of his early posts. i was actually about to make a post saying that many of these are decent and the ones i haven't heard are probably good too, but they're not 'essential', but it's not like i need to i think most of you need to take your thumbs out of your arses and stop trying to pick a fight from any proper discussion
rasputin 06.06.10	and yeah, 'essential' to one's 'collection' is just a slightly complicated way of saying 'DIGS' there's no argument of semantics going on here, just people not knowing what a basic word means
Dryden 06.06.10	yeah its just a digs list
rasputin 06.06.10	also spirit, what does adduara sound like? i like the concept behind it, but i'd prob not enjoy it if it's frooty bm
buckfutter 06.06.10	^There ya go. Dryden speaks truth. Rasputin- An idiot? I'm not the one going apeshit because someone used a different word for digs. Lol
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Actually, you're the only one going apeshit: "you're saying that one side of that discussion's arguments amount to nothing more than complaining; in essence, you're saying that the only way anyone could criticize you is by whining. Which amounts to claiming that you're beyond valid criticism. Pretty immature." He didn't just use a different word. He used an incorrect word, and he did so because saying "stuff I like" doesn't get the same reaction as "stuff that is absolutely vital to the genre's existence."
rasputin 06.06.10	lol only an idiot would think that somebody typing at a computer on sputnikmusic.com was going 'apeshit'. maybe that's what you do in your spare time, i can assure you that we don't.
Zoo 06.06.10	Which is something I think everyone has done, at one point or another, including myself.
Zoo 06.06.10	*in reference to Hyperbore's last comment
buckfutter 06.06.10	You are still missing my point. Despite the definition of the word essential is, this is a digs list, or what the user thinks is essential to the genre. It's a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact. Also, think about this: Hyperbore felt the need to point out that usage of the word essential was incorrect. He didn't leave it at that, though. He proceeded to continue posting about it throughout the thread, which either means he needs some type of validation or he can't stand to look at it. If it's the latter, than that to me is whining and complaining.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Well, that's because it's still being used incorrectly. Quality may or may not be subjective -that's a whole other discussion- but, what is and is not essential to a genre of music is not. Mayhem is essential, because it is among the releases that defined what black metal is, and gave later bands a point from which to further evolve. Katharsis is just a band playing in an established style. Not essential, no matter how much you like it.
ShadowRemains 06.06.10	lol srs buzness guise [2]
buckfutter 06.06.10	Dude, come on. I think SYL-City is essential to heavy metal, while someone else might tell me I'm full of shit and SYL sucks. Now, where do we go with that?
Emim 06.06.10	Hey look, music is subjective!
Hyperbore 06.06.10	I think the fact heavy metal existed for over three decades before "City" was released pretty much invalidates its classification as essential.
Emim 06.06.10	God, you just piss everyone off, don't you?
buckfutter 06.06.10	Hyperbore- Except for the fact that City was a landmark release because it did something different from what all other metal bands have done. Emim- I know, isn't it amazing?!?!
TheSpirit 06.06.10	@Rasputin- Addaura is pretty hard to describe actually. Mostly, they are pretty straightforward BM with a melodic edge. However, at times they incorporate elements of folk, doom and classic metal which is probably why I like it so much. I also really enjoy the lead singers voice, as silly as it is saying considering it's black metal, it's very emotional. I have it posted on the blog so you can check it out there if you'd like.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	buckfutter - what did it do differently, precisely? Emim - idiots, mostly. Shame there's so many of them. TheSpirit - it's not all that silly; the vocals on Avzhia's "The Key of Throne" are extremely emotional.
buckfutter 06.06.10	"I think the fact heavy metal existed for over three decades before "City" was released pretty much invalidates its classification as essential." So you're saying that an album has to be 30+ years old for it to be essential? Come on, man.
TheSpirit 06.06.10	oh and most importantly, they aren't "frooty" haha
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Nice strawman. I'm saying the album has to have an influence outside of simply being liked, in order to be "essential."
buckfutter 06.06.10	Spirit- Is 18 really that good? I have a friend who's really into them and keeps telling me to check them out.
TheSpirit 06.06.10	I know it's not really silly to a BM fan who knows there can be some emotional vocalists, but for any kids who aren't fans of BM and read that are probably like "Wtf dis guy is jus screeching and whinin" haha.
TheSpirit 06.06.10	18 is actually really awesome and it's really funny that would mention that your friend keeps pushing them on you because earlier when you said you'd check some of this out, that was just the album i was going to rec. for you to check out first.
buckfutter 06.06.10	Lol, you still aren't getting it. It's a matter of opinion, that's why if you look at every single list of "essential" music in any genre, all the lists will be different. What I consider essential is different from what you consider essential. You're not the authority, and neither am I.
buckfutter 06.06.10	Lol, dammit, I never did. I'll download some stuff from them tomorrow, particularly that album.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Actually, you're the one not getting it. Essential is not a matter of opinion, and this is something that can be understood by anyone with an IQ over 90. So go ahead and tell me how "City" was different from everything before it.
buckfutter 06.06.10	Wow, man, no need to insult. I'm actually trying to have an intelligent conversation with you. What you consider essential is right and what I consider essential is wrong? Is that what you're telling me? So music isn't subjective?
rasputin 06.06.10	i'd stop now if i were you buckfutter, you seem to be digging your own hole and at an increasing rate spirit, from waht you just said i'm assuming it sounds a bit like early primordial
buckfutter 06.06.10	Rasputin- I'm still trying to figure why you feel the need to respond when no one was talking to you.
TheSpirit 06.06.10	Maybe a little bit. Anyways, it's worth at least a listen
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Like I said, quality may or may not be subjective, but that's a whole other discussion. For example, I absolutely loathe Venom - but they had a massive influence on black metal, aesthetically if not musically, and for that their "Black Metal" IS essential, even if it is also boring and gay.
buckfutter 06.06.10	So basically you go by what everyone else tells you?
Hyperbore 06.06.10	No, I go by what reality tells me. Black metal, as a term, didn't even exist before Venom's album by the same name, to the best of my knowledge. Neither did that particular degree of obsession with Satanism in metal - there had always been elements of it, going as far back as Black Sabbath's self-titled song, but it wasn't until Venom released that album that it became a defining concept for the genre.
qwe3 06.06.10	how can you not understand this. Venom's influence on the genre of black metal is undeniable, even though the album "Black Metal" is a piece of shit in your opinion. Although i pretty much took this list to be a glorified faves/digs list despite the "essential" in the title
rasputin 06.06.10	lol i'm pretty certain you spoke diectly to me only a few minutes ago, you dolt
buckfutter 06.06.10	But reality is personal perception. Everyone's reality is different, dude. Just because you believe in something doesn't mean that I or anyone else has to believe it.
qwe3 06.06.10	lol
buckfutter 06.06.10	It was a lot more than a few minutes ago, rasputin. And it was after you butted into the conversation by calling me an "idiot." If you feel like you need to continue insulting me to make your argument more valid, go ahead. If that's what you need to do to get attention, by all means, go ahead.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Reality is reality - it doesn't require your validation or belief in order to exist. Your (and my) perception is PART of reality, not its cause.
Dryden 06.06.10	ok i had enough buckfutter shut up
qwe3 06.06.10	yo guys im gonna believe that lil wayne had a huge impact on the genre of grindcore and you cant disagree with me because it's MY PERSONAL PERCEPTION
ShadowRemains 06.06.10	lolz
buckfutter 06.06.10	Reality is reality? I hate to use religion as an example, but Christians have a different reality than Jews, Buddhists have a different reality than Muslims. Some believe in God, while some believe in a different deity. Just like some believe that this list is essential, while some think Spirit doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Dryden- Then don't read it.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Exactly, qwe3. It's also pretty funny how buckfutter will throw out insults as soon as he opens his mouth, then complains when he gets insulted in turn ;)
Dryden 06.06.10	youre just dragging something on so much its just too stupid
rasputin 06.06.10	roflmao i'm not insulting you to augment my argument seeing as i'm not actually trying to argue anything everything you've said so far has been remarkably retarded so even the thought of making an effort is bothersome. kudos to hyperbore for having the integrity to maintain some decency with a total redundancy like yourself so hey guys have i got the attention i want yet? huh? guys?
Hyperbore 06.06.10	Actually, buckfutter, Christians, Jews, and Muslisms all share the exact same reality. They just have different beliefs about it. One of them might be right, and their religion is closest to describing reality, or none of them are right, and Hindus are right, or there's nothing beyond physical existence at all. The point is that whatever the case may be, it stays that way REGARDLESS of what people decide to think about it. In the same way, nothing on this list except for the Burzum album is essential to black metal, no matter how much TheSpirit or anyone else may like it.
qwe3 06.06.10	"Reality is reality? I hate to use religion as an example, but Christians have a different reality than Jews, Buddhists have a different reality than Muslims. Some believe in God, while some believe in a different deity. Just like some believe that this list is essential, while some think Spirit doesn't have a clue what he's talking about." JESUS MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN THE SON OF GOD THEREFORE LIL WAYNE=GRINDCORE
Dryden 06.06.10	buckfutters been told
qwe3 06.06.10	on another less mind-numbing topic i have a lot of new black metal to check out cheers spirit
TheSpirit 06.06.10	No problem : )
buckfutter 06.06.10	Oh, I get it! All of you guys are elitist with huge egos that can't tolerate someone else having a different opinion! Oh man. If you guys think I'm retarded for thinking differently, go ahead. I might not have been as educated as a lot of you, so I guess that means I'm retarded. Meh, oh well. If you go around the site and ask everyone to make an essential list of their favorite genre, there are going to be some differences on each list. I agree, Venom, Mayhem, Immortal-all of those are essential. But who is anyone to say that people aren't allowed to have an opinion on what is essential and what isn't?
qwe3 06.06.10	"Oh, I get it!" no you don't
rasputin 06.06.10	i think you missed my last comment spirit, do they sound like early primordial? i would just go listen to them but i've got so much downloaded/downloading and about 15 albums coming in the mail in a week i dont want to waste anymore time than i'm already going to
buckfutter 06.06.10	"They just have different beliefs about it." So you are basically saying that all of them could be right? Why couldn't Spirit's list be right then? Oh, and by the way, I stopped insulting you about halfway up the page. Just saying.
Hyperbore 06.06.10	And who's to say I'm not allowed to tell them when they're wrong? Hm? Seems like your concern for individual expression only goes as far as it benefits you, buddy.
Dryden 06.06.10	what a moron
Hyperbore 06.06.10	"So you are basically saying that all of them could be right? Why couldn't Spirit's list be right then?" Uh... no. You really do seem to have trouble reading. I said either one of them is right, and the rest are wrong, or they're all wrong.
buckfutter 06.06.10	"And who's to say I'm not allowed to tell them when they're wrong?" That sounds like opinion to me, "buddy." You have every right to say that he's wrong, while he has every right to tell you these are essential.
TheSpirit 06.06.10	@Rasputin- no, they don't really sound too much like early Primordial. Not imo at least. And you review or diabolicalconquest right? i've been meaning to look over there and check out some of your reviews
Hyperbore 06.06.10	If I have a right to do it, then why have you wasted this entire thread complaining about it?
rasputin 06.06.10	lol the inevitable collapse of a simpleton when he can't wrap his mind around the differences between subjectivity and objectivity are perfectly portrayed right here: 'Oh, I get it! All of you guys are elitist with huge egos that can't tolerate someone else having a different opinion! Oh man. If you guys think I'm retarded for thinking differently, go ahead. I might not have been as educated as a lot of you, so I guess that means I'm retarded. Meh, oh well.'
buckfutter 06.06.10	"Uh... no. You really do seem to have trouble reading. I said either one of them is right, and the rest are wrong, or they're all wrong." I didn't mean that every single one of them all at once could be right, I meant that all of them COULD be right. Christians could be right or wrong, buddhists could be right or wrong. Just like this list, in your perception, isn't a list of essentials, while Spirits perception tells him that they are essential. That's all I'm trying to say, it's personal opinion. Nothing any of us says is set in stone. I've had enough. I'm a bit drunk, and I need to get some sleep. Hyperbore, I do consider this an interesting conversation, whether you think I'm an idiot or not. Forgive me if I did insult you, it's just something I do to humor myself when there's nothing going on around me(which, at 1:29 in the AM, there isn't). So good night, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
rasputin 06.06.10	spirit - yeah i do review on DC, i thought you knew this. i've been writing for them since about july/august last year, it's a really good gig, links with labels/promos etc. the owner just started up DC as a label/distro along with the webzine, and signed the first band the other week - The Dead from Brisbane. check out the site anyway, it's pretty cool, and there's a decent forum as well.
megadeth101 06.06.10	yeah def not gonna read through this thread. what's going on dre? oh yeah i'm banned again.
buckfutter 06.06.10	I wasted this entire thread because I have the right to complain and act like an idiot.
ShadowRemains 06.06.10	buckfutter, usually I don't mind you too much, but here I just gotta say GIVE THE SHIT UP!
Dryden 06.06.10	The Dead are awesome
TheSpirit 06.06.10	@Yeah i was pretty sure it was DC, I have just been forgetting to check the site haha. And yeah I remember the news post for that band signing to the label, that's pretty could especially considering (if i remember correctly) you liked them. I'll check out the site tomorrow though for sure
Hyperbore 06.06.10	"I didn't mean that every single one of them all at once could be right, I meant that all of them COULD be right. Christians could be right or wrong, buddhists could be right or wrong. Just like this list, in your perception, isn't a list of essentials, while Spirits perception tells him that they are essential. That's all I'm trying to say, it's personal opinion. Nothing any of us says is set in stone." No, nothing any of us says is set in stone. I can say 2+2=5, or 2+2=4. Neither one is set in stone because I said it, but one of them IS set in stone simply because reality extends beyond my own ego. 2+2 does indeed equal 4. That IS set in stone, regardless of what I say. The lis is not a list of essentials, regardless of TheSpirit's perception of the importance of the albums contained therein. They aren't essential because they aren't influential; they may be good, or not, but either way, they're not important to the genre. And you believe everyone has a right to say what is essential and what is not. But that would require giving me the right to express my approval or disapproval, as well as having your own right to do the same. The difference with me is that, first, I don't believe in "rights" of any sort; and second, I recognize that the words we use have certain meanings, and that we cannot choose to simply change the meaning of words to our own benefit, as language would then become impossible. In any event, have a good night :) I've found it interesting too - otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.
FadeToBlack 06.06.10	great list bro, good to see its not the typical Darkthrone + Mayhem + Immortal etc etc. you really know your shit
megadeth101 06.06.10	dre
lobby 06.06.10	rofl @ comments heard a few of these, will look into 1
megadeth101 06.06.10	you stole Ritual Orgy you bastard : 3
DeafMetal 06.06.10	Why did I just read through this whole thread? Oh yeah, because Earth's "The Bees Made Honey In The Lion's Skull" is too good to stop listening to. Amiright?
megadeth101 06.06.10	sup deaf
DeafMetal 06.06.10	'Sup though deth?
megadeth101 06.06.10	nah its dre
porch 06.06.10	people argue over the most pointless shit
megadeth101 06.06.10	WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY? YOU'RE THE MOST POINTLESS SHIT! how bout that : 3
McCopper 06.06.10	Thanks for the list
Mordecai. 06.06.10	holy buckfutt. intothepit, you have to be the most consistently retarded user this website has ever had
vanderb0b 06.06.10	Cool list, I'll have to check these bands out.
TheyTookOurJobs 06.06.10	cool list
Jonathan10 06.06.10	list is ebulz
Relinquished 06.06.10	holy shit what the fuck happened here cool list dude most of these are great
BallsToTheWall 06.06.10	Needs moar Blazebirth.
ShadowRemains 06.06.10	sup relinquished sup balls list is great, forgot to say once I get into more black metal I'll surely check these out
TheSpirit 06.06.10	Thanks guys
FadeToBlack 06.06.10	ive only heard like 5 of these at the most lol which ones should i get first?
Motiv3 06.06.10	u have recced alot of atmospheric/ambient black metal which is what i want to get into more in the summer and also so some other albums with interesting descriptions. Definitely gonna check out some of the albums on your list. goes to bookmark
foreverendeared 06.06.10	No drudkh makes me sad
TheSpirit 06.07.10	@Hollier- i can see you enjoying alot of these @Fade- I would rec to you specifically 1,4,18,21 @foreverendeared- like i said i wanted to focus on smaller releases. I do love drudkh though
Foxhound 06.07.10	omg thank you for this list.
TheSpirit 06.07.10	Really? I've never known you to be a BM fan foxhound
Foxhound 06.07.10	Not really (Cries of the past maybe) but I did want to find good shit for that genre and shizzam you have this list. I'm listening to Addaura right now.
TheSpirit 06.07.10	tell me whatchu think
Foxhound 06.07.10	I'm listening to "Ochre and Ore" right now. I'll have to get back to you with the finer details after further listens.
Crysis 06.07.10	wow @ discussion
TheSpirit 06.07.10	yeah it got heated to say the least
FreePizzaDay 06.07.10	Sup Shadow? Sup Relinquished? Sup Balls? Sup Deaf? Sup Death? What's good today, fellas?
jingledeath 06.07.10	What a lovely list and discussion. I've had 1 for a month or so, haven't listened yet.
megadeth101 06.07.10	you didn't says sups to me dre is sad
ShadowRemains 06.07.10	sup pizza sup dre
Zion 06.07.10	sup gais heard this is the place to be, newayz bai!
megadeth101 06.07.10	sup shad
Zion 06.07.10	Let's see if we can keep this thing moving along....... ....... .. buckfutter is right.
Zion 06.07.10	I've checked out 1, 2, 4, and 5 thus far, 12 and 13 on the way. So far so good. Awesome list.
TheSpirit 06.07.10	Thanks man
Zion 06.07.10	4 stood out to me the most. First track in and I was floored... some of the thickest, heaviest, most atmospheric doom I've heard in a long time.
TheSpirit 06.07.10	Yeah Arcana Coelestia just owns. They create such a great atmosphere. There really is no weakness on that album, I might bump it up