TheSpirit: Were Children of Bodom melodeath?

TheSpirit 08.09.22	play nice now
SomeCallMeTim 08.09.22	this will be spicey but literally no
conesmoke 08.09.22	Black power m// metal
Pikazilla 08.09.22	yes they were if cob were never melodeath, then neither are kalmah
TheSpirit 08.09.22	gotta be honest, i don't think i've ever listened to kalmah... worth checking?
Pikazilla 08.09.22	if you like early cob, I'll be very surprised if you won't like kalmah
Willie 08.09.22	CoB were never melodeath. Your assessment of each album was pretty spot on. The closest they ever got was their debut, and even that was really just Power Metal mixed with Black Metal. I've heard kalmah, but can't remember them. If they're super similar to CoB then they aren't melodeath either.
SomeCallMeTim 08.09.22	^^^
Pikazilla 08.09.22	also how are 5 and 6 power/thrash they are metalcore
SomeCallMeTim 08.09.22	also no
TheSpirit 08.09.22	METALCORE?????????????
Pikazilla 08.09.22	yes, metalcore
alamo 08.09.22	ofc they were. melodeath comes in different shapes wether it's more influenced by folk, metalcore, power metal or whatever
Willie 08.09.22	They may have added a bit of that metalcore feel on a few albums, just like Cradle of Filth did on some of their later albums... but neither band could be called Metalcore because of it.
alamo 08.09.22	also i wouldnt call any of those thrash at all lol 5 has some groove metal vibes but that's as close as it gets imo
SomeCallMeTim 08.09.22	"melodeath comes in different shapes wether it's more influenced by folk, metalcore, power metal or whatever" there's still supposed to be at least SOME death metal in it, tho..
Willie 08.09.22	When the band went in a more riff-oriented direction starting on 4, there was definitely some thrash influence, IMO.
Pikazilla 08.09.22	alamo gets it neoclassical is a very broad genre you can have a melodeath band with neoclassical influences
Willie 08.09.22	Absolutely, it just depends on what influences are dominating the songs. In this case, it's not melodeath.
TheSpirit 08.09.22	the overriding element on each cob album from HCDR to RRF is very clearly thrash, i guess you could say the slower moments delve intro groove metal but that's only b/c groove metal is essentially... mid-tempo thrash, lol. melodeath can certainly be diverse, but what death metal elements are really present in Bodom's music?
SomeCallMeTim 08.09.22	"melodeath can certainly be diverse, but what death metal elements are really present in Bodom's music?" this. some of yall forgetting that death metal needs to be present
sonictheplumber 08.09.22	i say yes. fuck em
sonictheplumber 08.09.22	you know whos heavier than children of bodom? AC mothafuckin DC
DungeonBoy 08.09.22	lol. no
Eakflanderyof 08.09.22	There's nothing really melodeath about bodom. They're a mix of heavy metal/power/thrash/symphonic.
Nazzadan 08.09.22	Neoclassical power metal with harsh vocals is just a long way of saying "NWOBHM with harsh vocals" which is a shorter but still long way of saying "melodeath." As far as "where does the death metal come from," it comes from what I would consider one of the bands main influences which is Sentenced. The band isn't overtly "melodic death metal" in the same way that a band like Mi'Gauss or afformentioned Sentenced are, they are more of a blending of that style with their other country mates Stratovarius' knack for harmonizing guitars and synths. Basically he took what he was doing with Thy Serpent and just switched the black for death. farts
Nazzadan 08.09.22	It also comes down to the old question of 'do you consider melodeath and melodic death metal' to be two different genres. I don't because even though I'm a genre distinction nerd that's splitting too many hairs but this is the exact situation that question exists because of.
TheSpirit 08.09.22	I don’t understand the logic of considering melodeath different from melodic death metal, it’s clearly just an abbreviation
Nazzadan 08.09.22	I don't either, but people make that distinction anyways to separate more mainstream melodeath acts from older stuff with more edge.
SteakByrnes 08.09.22	I agree with my friend nazz, specifically the farting bit But yea I've always considered bodom power metal melodeath
sonictheplumber 08.09.22	"melodeath" refers to melodic dm that one dislikes. "melodic death metal" is melodeath one enjoys
TheSpirit 08.09.22	makes sense
MarsKid 08.09.22	What Bodom did for the superpop power metal breakreggae scene cannot be understated
TheSpirit 08.09.22	i would say they influenced more of the classicaled glam metal avant blues field, but they are just so similar who can really say
DungeonBoy 08.09.22	Vehemence - God Was Created is a very melodic death metal album, but I would not consider it melodeath, which is where I think the differing opinions are coming from. Melodeath is that signature "sound" of In Flames, Dark Tranquillity, Insomnium, etc. The irony is most of the notorious melodeath bands don't even really have death metal vocals...
Egarran 08.09.22	Everything points toward a no.
Heppasodge 08.10.22	Yeah seems like a no. Interdasting
wutang4ever 08.10.22	Yes. They're part of the Big 4 for melo death. Dark Tranquillity In Flames At The Gates Children of Bodom
artiswar 08.10.22	It was Soilwork not Bodom
Egarran 08.10.22	I believe it's wutang's thing to be 'wrong'
naughtcturnal 08.10.22	no death metal to be heard
Muzz79 08.10.22	Never been a fan of this band. Too close to power metal which is not my go. But I’m happy to call a lot of bands melodeath even though it’s not a melodic version of death metal. One of the best melodeath albums this year is Ancient Settlers - Our Last Eclipse but it’s pretty unknown
Nazzadan 08.10.22	I'll conceed to an extent that the first 3 aren't melodeath in the strictest terms, more than once I've just called them "neoclassical pm with harsh vocals" but like I said above I think that that's just a long way of saying melodeath. HCDR through RRF are definitely on the thrashier side (and all very bad), but Halo of Blood onwards is melodeath without any asterisks imo.
Eakflanderyof 08.10.22	Bodom song structures are mostly just heavy/speed metal with harsh vocals. They're closer to yngwie songs than any kind of death metal/melo death
Josh D. 08.10.22	After getting over myself saying "who cares", the answer is yes. Moving on.
Nazzadan 08.10.22	There's an entire scene of US melodeath that's whole thing is being "Iron Maiden with harsh vocals" so I don't really see why Yngwie or Stratovarius but with harshes is disqualified. I 100% agree that Bodom and their whole scene/clones like early Kalmah, Norther, etc. are pretty detached from a textbook definition of melodeath, but I think that the genre (especially back then) was very fluid. Worth noting back when Something Wild dropped it was still common to call melodeath and meloblack the same genre (Dissection, Dawn, Sacramentum, Necrophobic were all called melodeath), and bands experimented with cross genre influences quite a bit (Lunar Strain, Subterranean and TJR have lots of folk elements and a handful of straight up black metal sections). Man I wanna jam some old melodeath now
TheSpirit 08.10.22	"I've just called them "neoclassical pm with harsh vocals" but like I said above I think that that's just a long way of saying melodeath." I guess i just don't really understand that logic b/c .... where is the death metal part of that? EDIT: ope you beat me to the punch with your reasoning I would consider Halo of Blood their closest to melodeath for sure.
Nazzadan 08.10.22	Halo of Blood if anything has as much black metal in it as Something Wild did, but did crank the dial of "neoclassical" down a bit and cranked up the "dm" one. "I guess i just don't really understand that logic b/c .... where is the death metal part of that?" Ask the Japanese, almost their entire melodeath scene is just power metal/neoclassical metal with harsh vocals over it. It might not be the most pinpoint technically accurate description, but the "community" as a whole has accepted that if you harmonize your guitars, growl, blast, and have a consistent melody that builds throughout the song you are playing melodeath. Just in Bodom's case it's melodeath with a shitload of other things thrown in with it.
StormChaser 08.10.22	probably not, at least not in spirit the sound can be melodeath adjacent in some cases but I'd never call them melodeath
Eakflanderyof 08.10.22	@nazzadan The thing with people saying stuff like "in flames is just iron maiden with harsh vocals" is that they're wrong lol. Gothenburg is loosely kinda like iron maiden meets Swedish death metal. The elements of Swedish death metal are distinctly there. For COB, there's really no element of death metal other than the occasional blastbeat. It's almost quite literally just yngwie style songs with harsh vocals
Scoot 08.10.22	we used to call them power metal w/harsh vocals
Nazzadan 08.10.22	@Eakflanderyof I was talking about Arghoslent and all their clones, not the Gothenburg stuff
Egarran 08.10.22	So now we can definitely conclude that NO, CoB is NOT melodeath. Thus, anyone who claims otherwise is wrong and should be avoided.
Nazzadan 08.10.22	Agreed, same with people that 3.5 TJR
botb 08.10.22	2-4 yes
Egarran 08.10.22	I know 3.5 for TJR is low cos the music is great but I don't like the vocals at all
Nazzadan 08.10.22	Acceptable, if there's 1 thing to not like about IF I can understand it being Anders. Also yeah even if I were to say that Something Wild isn't melodeath, Hatebreeder and FtR are
TheSpirit 08.10.22	Follow the Reaper has more in common with glam metal than it does death metal
Koris 08.10.22	Honestly, it's hard to categorize COB in general. There are elements of power metal, neoclassical metal, melodeath, thrash, and symphonic metal, but none of them really take center stage over each other imo. But if I had to use a simple classification for the band, I'd say "extreme power metal"
ToSmokMuzyki 10.13.22	how did i miss this yes n always by every definition
Egarran 10.14.22	Too late. After much discussion, we decided that CoB is not melodeath. You would know this if you read the thread.
combustion07 10.14.22	Also always looked at them as pretty much power metal with harsh vocals. I dug this band quite a bit when I was discovering extreme metal but I'd say for the past decade I only ever return to the debut and when I've tried the others I just get turned off quickly by all of the keys and whatnot. I wanna try stuff past their debut again though. Which one would y'all say riffs the hardest? I'll start there
ToSmokMuzyki 10.14.22	good thing opinions arent facts
TheSpirit 10.14.22	"Which one would y'all say riffs the hardest? I'll start there" as far as pure riffs, probably hatecrew deathroll or halo of blood
SomeCallMeTim 10.14.22	they're less melodeath now than they were when we were talking about this in august