TheSpirit: VOTE: Big 4 of Melodeath

TheSpirit 08.05.22	I have a feeling I know how this will go, but I think there could be some interesting discourse so...
Feather 08.05.22	At the Gates In Flames The Black Dahlia Murder
TheAntichrist 08.05.22	at the gates, in flames, and dark tranquility are objectively the big three of the gothenburg scene so only the fourth member is up for debate in which case could probably go to amorphis or dissection, but heartwork eclipsed their peaks by a year or two so take your pick
Muzz79 08.05.22	Considering the Big 4 is not necessarily the Best 4 I’d say In Flames, DT, Arch Enemy, At the Gates
MarsKid 08.05.22	In terms of their hits/impact? In Flames Dark Tranquillity At the Gates probably Insomnium? But if you look at overall legacy/body of work, Amorphis would likely replace In Flames in my book.
mkmusic1995 08.05.22	At The Gates In Flames Dark Tranquility Carcass All the other bands are certainly good but these four really pioneered or molded what we know as that genre
ReturnToRock 08.05.22	At The Gates In Flames Dark Tranquillity Arch Enemy Carcass are better known for their impact on grindcore rather than melodeath (their one melodeath album is considered a not-so-good oddity/anomaly in their discography), and Entombed were perfectly content remaining a cult/underground band. Neither ever even attempted the sort of declared bid for metal-mainstream recognition made by the above four.
TheSpirit 08.05.22	ill refer everyone to my intro as it seems something was missed: a band having pioneered or molded the genre is not the only thing to take into account on this list. it's more a combo of legacy, quality, longevity, consistency, etc... think more big picture.
KManoc1 08.05.22	Arch Enemy In Flames Carcass Amon Amarth
TheSpirit 08.05.22	oh damn, amon amarth is a good one
MarsKid 08.05.22	Dark Tranquillity is on then, no question. At the Gates, while not necessarily bad, never recaptured their magic, and In Flames have been regularly pissing on their legacy for decades. Probably then... DT Insomnium Amorphis Be'lakor All successful, and I'd wager all are influential in their own way. High quality of work throughout the majority of their careers, as well as the capability of adapting (i.e. Amorphis' recent tear of releases). Similarly, they're all still active and haven't shown signs of losing their appeal.
MarsKid 08.05.22	Although I realize now that Soilwork have a decent argument and nobody has brought them up yet.
Feather 08.05.22	Surprised I went 2/4 based on how this shaping up considering I have never listened to any of these bands. Went off of name recognition which when you are talking about "Big 4" is generally all that matters.
alamo 08.05.22	what's a big 4. if it's about having a legacy, multiple great distinct albums that pushed the genre forward and not about pioneering or having like -one- genre classic i'd go with: in flames dark tranquillity soilwork arch enemy
JohnnyoftheWell 08.05.22	IF DT AtG lol idk Children of Bodom
normaloctagon 08.05.22	where the heck is kalmah
DadKungFu 08.05.22	In Flames Be'lakor Amon Amarth At The Gates
pjquinones747 08.05.22	At the Gates In Flames The Black Dahlia Murder Amon Amarth
FreakMachine 08.05.22	Dark Tranquility In Flames At The Gates Carcass
bgillesp 08.05.22	1258
PitchforkArms 08.05.22	From the outside looking in, I feel like there are 3 EASY picks and they are At the Gates and The Black Dahlia Murder, and In Flames. I feel like the other is probably Dark Tranquility.
TheSpirit 08.05.22	i am kind of surprised more people are not vouching for TBDM tbh as far as american melodeath goes they reign supreme
alamo 08.05.22	as far as melodeath goes americans are flops
Flugmorph 08.05.22	In Flames Dark Tranquillity Soilwork Amon Amarth
TheSpirit 08.05.22	"as far as melodeath goes americans are flops" I mean TBDM and Darkest Hour both rule and melodic metalcore is essentially melodeath w/breakdowns and it's hard deny how influential and awesome the american scene was from 2000 to like 2007 in that regard
MarsKid 08.05.22	If longevity and consistency are a big factor, IF shouldn't be near this list. . . . .
TheSpirit 08.05.22	they are factors but you always have to balance it with influence, originality, and how good they were at their best
PitchforkArms 08.05.22	TBH I feel like TBDM get a little pushed aside in the Melodeath pantheon discussions due to the hardcore influence. They really started in the punk scene and were just a bunch of hardcore kids doing metal which doesn't sit well with the purists.
TheSpirit 08.05.22	i absolutely agree with you. i'll admit that for the longest time i was extremely biased when it came to them and refused to admit they were melodeath and would call them metalcore. clearly my train of thought has changed but i had that mindset for awhile
Slex 08.05.22	At the Gates In Flames DT Insomnium
PitchforkArms 08.05.22	See, I was always super easy to get on board because I don't have any pure metal gene. Another knock that I think they get is that they aren't really OG enough, though at this point, their discog is respectable and almost 20 yrs deep. If the big 4 is to be a representation of the full genre, I think having them makes sense to not ONLY have bands who kicked things off in the mid/late 90s.
FR33L0RD 08.05.22	Unleashed
TheSpirit 08.05.22	" If the big 4 is to be a representation of the full genre, I think having them makes sense to not ONLY have bands who kicked things off in the mid/late 90s." i agree, which is why i kind of wanted to expand on what i thought a melodeath big 4 should be as opposed to what most people would consider it to be ie something in the vein of the thrash big 4
PitchforkArms 08.05.22	[PitchforkArms liked that]
Poet 08.05.22	At the Gates In Flames Dark Tranquillity Arch Enemy (been spending time listening to their first three albums this summer and they're too important to not put on here)
Sevengill 08.05.22	At the Gates, In Flames, Dark Tranquility, Amorphis. I'd put Insomnium, Arch Enemy, Black Dahlia, Amon Amarth as a second wave.
DarkSideOfLucca 08.05.22	Amon Amarth Dark Traniquility At The Gates Arch Enemy But I don't fucking know dude, leaving out In Flames, Carcass and Soilwork just feels so goddamn wrong I don't know, this will prob change within the hour lol
Zac124 08.05.22	In Flames Dark Tranquillity At the Gates Arch Enemy These are not necessarily my favourites but the ones that I think had the most impact on the genre.
BallsToTheWall 08.05.22	Intestine Baalism, At the Gates, Dark Tranquillity, I’m Flames
Flugmorph 08.05.22	"Intestine Baalism" no kek
DaveyMonsoon 08.05.22	In Flames Dark Tranquillity At the Gates Insomnium In Flames for having one of the greatest streak of albums in melodeath from Jester Race to Clayman regardless of their later decline. Dark Tranquillity for having one of the landmark albums of melodeath in The Gallery and having one of the better discographies in their 00's output compared to other bands that started around the same time as them. At the Gates for their influence in both melodeath and metalcore (the latter which one would want to admit or not). Insomnium for taking the classic melodeath sound and modernizing it for newer generations while still being one of the better bands in their era.
Slex 08.05.22	All points well put
Thibs 08.05.22	In Flames Dark Tranquility Edge of Sanity Be'lakor
Drbebop 08.05.22	Oh my god it’s Quattro Vagina
Slex 08.05.22	Am I allowed to pick a B tier? Soilwork Be'lakor Arch Enemy Darkest Hour
Feather 08.05.22	"From the outside looking in, I feel like there are 3 EASY picks and they are At the Gates and The Black Dahlia Murder, and In Flames. I feel like the other is probably Dark Tranquility." [2] I have not heard a single song from a single band listed, but recognize AtG TBDM and IF by name.
MarsKid 08.05.22	Dark Tranquillity is just as recognizable and should be a lock for any combo of 4 bands.
combustion07 08.05.22	At the Gates Dark Tranquility Amon Amarth The Black Dahlia Murder Love seeing the Intestine Baalism love here too. They're my favorite in the genre along with Arghoslent. From the list though I'd say the 4 listed above. Considered swapping out one for In Flames but I can't decide which and I really feel like those 4 do a good job of representing the various eras of the genre as a whole.
TheSpirit 08.05.22	Even if Arghoslent was the inarguably the best and most popular melodeath band of all time i would not put them in my big 4 but yes it nice to see intestine baalism
DungeonBoy 08.05.22	At the Gates In Flames Dark Tranquility Soilwork Arch Enemy ..are the top four, because you can't say any of these don't belong
charbyno 08.05.22	Carcass At the Gates In Flames Dark Tranquility
combustion07 08.05.22	"Even if Arghoslent was the inarguably the best and most popular melodeath band of all time i would not put them in my big 4" Agreed. Your list definitely has all of the players that would belong in the big 4 if there was to be one. I wouldn't even include Baalism honestly. I'm going more off of the overall effect and influence they had on the style though and neither of those bands really had enough pull to be considered
TheSpirit 08.05.22	definitely agree they aren't as popular but in terms of consistency they are one of the best!
TheTripP 08.05.22	The Black Dahlia Murder In Flames Amorphis
TheSpirit 08.05.22	a little surprised to see that nobody has mentioned arsis yet. i don't even really like them, but i figured someone would have made a case for them at this point
Egarran 08.05.22	Damn that's tough. I'm feeling Edge of Sanity Amorphis Be'Lakor Dissection But I guess these are not the OGs of melodeath. When it comes to legacy I agree with Carcass At the Gates In Flames Dark Tranquility
TheSpirit 08.05.22	Surprised nobody has said Hypocrisy either
Egarran 08.05.22	How about Opeth?
DarkSideOfLucca 08.05.22	Opeth more like NOpeth
DarkSideOfLucca 08.05.22	Or BrOpeth
Egarran 08.05.22	uh hehe ok they're often on these kindsa lists
DarkSideOfLucca 08.05.22	I know, it's just hard not to make Opeth puns But they're more in the prog world in my mind than melodeath, but now that you mention it I guess they could go either way
ConcubinaryCode 08.05.22	1,2, & 5 are easy picks but the 4th pick is too hard tbh.
Eakflanderyof 08.05.22	Automatically, IF and DT are at the top of the heap because no other melodeath band had as many solid albums while simultaneously being so impactful. In flames had 4 of the best in the genre all consecutively and DT have put out high quality albums for their entire career. After that, I don't think you can exclude at the gates based on the impact they had on the genre even if they really only put out a couple quality melodeath albums. For the 4th... I gotta give that to hypocrisy. They're the perfect example of how to do melo death that isn't in the Gothenburg style and they've consistently put out solid albums with some being fantastic Honorable mentions: Insomnium... even if they've got a lot of meh in their discography, they still nailed modern melodeath with their first 3 full lengths Dissection... two fantastic blackened melodeath albums
TheSpirit 08.05.22	To jump back up a few comments, I would not consider Opeth melodeath. They’re just prog dm that is melodic. Eak- I appreciate the breakdown of your rationale! I think more people (myself included) consider Dissection melodic black metal even though they really do have a ton of death metal qualities
Eakflanderyof 08.05.22	Yeah, dissection honestly does probably fall a little more on the black metal end of the spectrum than death metal, but they've got enough melodeath-y riffs for me to lump them in. Plus, they're Swedish lol And I agree with your assessment on opeth. They're more prog metal than anything with some death metal qualities
TheSpirit 08.05.22	To be fair, Reinkaos is completely and unmistakably a death metal album, so it’s not like they don’t have at least one record that would qualify them
Eakflanderyof 08.05.22	Yeah, just sucks that one is pretty unremarkable lol
Meridiu5 08.05.22	i think arch enemy deserves the 4th place after the obvious 3
Eakflanderyof 08.05.22	In terms of name recognition and longevity, that's probably true, but I just don't really love any of their albums. Even their more well received albums only have a few songs here and there that I really enjoy
Kusangii 08.05.22	Pretty obvious that it's really The big 3 and they're Dark tranquillity, At the gates and In Flames But I'll vote for DT ATG IF and Carcass
Sevengill 08.05.22	^ yeah this is the consensus and I'm okay with it
Meridiu5 08.05.22	Even their more well received albums only have a few songs here and there that I really enjoy yea, they're more of a song band than an album band. kind of like IF's later years
DaveyMonsoon 08.06.22	I'd really love to argue for Carcass being in the big 4, though I'm of the opinion that starting out as a grind band for their first couple of albums, releasing only one classic melodeath album (as influential in the genre as Heartwork is) before taking a nosedive in Swansong and breaking up soon after really hurts them. That's just my two cents though, I still love Heartwork and it's one of my favorite melodeath albums, but looking at them as a whole, they fall short in my big 4 picks for me.
Storm In A Teacup 08.06.22	This is hard. First three choices are objective and based on popularity. 4th is biased and based on who the best band left to choose from is 1. In Flames 2. The Black Dahlia Murder 3. Arch Enemy 4. Darkest Hour
Storm In A Teacup 08.06.22	If I weighed the underground scene and the number of fans who complain the loudest I would have definitely kept in flames, removed arch enemy, and replaced AE with At The Gates. 🤣🤣🤣
Egarran 08.06.22	Maybe you'll appreciate this wiki discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMelodic_death_metal Among other things they mostly agree with your Opeth take.
Pikazilla 08.06.22	Insomnium shouldn't even be in this convo They aren't anywhere near as big as In Flames or Dark Tranquillity or At The Gates
Koris 08.06.22	Carcass In Flames At the Gates Black Dahlia Murder
evilford 08.06.22	Garden of shadows Edge of sanity Thats probably it
FR33L0RD 08.06.22	Edge of Sanity, is the legend of melo death in this list ( obviously not a big 4 in terms of popularity) Dissection, is one of the gods of melo black
normaloctagon 08.07.22	I don’t think anyone answered me so I’m going to ask again where the heck is kalmah
Storm In A Teacup 08.07.22	Never heard of em 😃 have heard of everyone on this list tho,
Tasty 08.07.22	where the heck is kalmah [2]
MarsKid 08.07.22	Given how this has trended, it's pretty clear that 3 of the 4 are considered locked in. And by that criteria, I don't know if Kalmah would fit in the fourth slot. Personally, I think you can make a reasonable argument that In Flames have spent enough years pissing away their legacy that they can get bumped down, but they also had that massive 4 album run, so it's not much of a debate. It's basically just the big Gothenburg lads and maybe some American band in the last spot.
DType 08.07.22	Be'lakor Dark Tranquility At The Gates In Flames
MO 08.07.22	personally Dissection is in my top 4. I got into them super early through Opeth shouting them out in the booklet of Orchid. they were one of my first melo death bands
Heppasodge 08.07.22	In Flames Dark Tranquillity At the Gates Insomnium Pika yeah insomnium aren't AS big but they have a lot of weight to their name, and it's not like they are small. Arch Enemy tour to death but I wouldn't say they changed much. Carcass i wouldn't say are a melodeath band frontally. Amon Amarth are massive but not big 4 status. Be'Lakor are huge now but for a long time were extremely niche. Opeth not really melodeath, more in a league of their own. Black Dahlia Murder are probably heavier than the 4 listed above, a good amount of their stuff is just really catchy but fairly techy death metal, it doesn't have that underlying leaning-into melody kind of feeling that the above 4 have
Scheumke 08.07.22	In Flames Soilwork Children of Bodom At the Gates
normaloctagon 08.07.22	yeah i'm not sure about this list. it's weird seeing "big 4 of melodeath" and then seeing darkest hour but not children of bodom. like, what?
TheSpirit 08.08.22	I will tally this up tomorrow! Children of Bodom is a band I thought of chucking up on here, but at the end of the day I am not sure they qualify as melodeath
sonictheplumber 08.08.22	eucharist
evilford 08.08.22	Tech >>>>> melo
normaloctagon 08.08.22	They’re one of the biggest melodeath bands ever lol, can’t really think of another Finnish group that had more crossover success in the states… their melodeath style is ‘dirtied’ by power metal just as much as darkest hour’s is dirtied by metalcore, and the power metal + melodeath thing has far more legacy than the metalcore + melodeath thing So i think personal preference aside, leaving CoB off is a funny choice especially when compared to a band like darkest hour who doesn’t have near the same amount of popularity in the genre. We are doing a ‘Big’ 4 here right?
TheSpirit 08.08.22	There are many factors that go into account when doing this big 4, i am doing something more comprehensive. Aside from that I don’t think COB are melodeath. Maybe first album aside they have very little melodic death metal elements and many more thrash and power metal. Even then, I don’t see that many comments here vouching for COB anyway, so don’t think they would make the cut despite them being a band that I would personally rank in my top 5 bands ever. Darkest Hour is more melodic death metal than they are metalcore, they just happen to come from the hardcore scene. I think this an interesting discussion regardless, I just don’t agree they are melodeath. Even if they were it’s hard to make a case for them over a decent amount of the other bands mentioned.
rockarollacola 08.08.22	Easy picks 1. Styx 2. Buckcherry 3. LMFAO 4. Carcass
Egarran 08.08.22	I hope the next list is The Big 4 of prog death.
conesmoke 08.08.22	At the gates, carcass, amorphis and in flermz
Egarran 08.08.22	in phlegms
conesmoke 08.08.22	At the grapes
Elynna 08.08.22	Big 4: Dark Tranquility, In Flames, At The Gates & Carcass Personal faves: Be'lakor, Insomnium, Garden of Shadows & Amorphis
conesmoke 08.08.22	Fkn love SOTLB, but I consider that one blackened dm.
TheSpirit 08.08.22	yes, that is where i land on it as well but i know a decent amount of people would still put it up for consideration on a list like this
MarsKid 08.08.22	Honestly Spirit kinda convinced me that TBDM might deserve a spot. . . . . Modern locks for me have to be DT and Amorphis at least.
conesmoke 08.08.22	How about Hypocrisy?
TheSpirit 08.08.22	hell yeah mars m/ m/ m/ i was actually talking about if hypocrisy qualifies with someone on twitter and i think we landed on they are a death metal band that is melodic rather than a melodic death metal band
conesmoke 08.08.22	Fair nuf, I can get on board with that
Shuyin 08.09.22	Dark Tranquillity Insomnium Mors Principium Est Be'lakor
DungeonBoy 08.09.22	I guess the word legacy has different meanings in this thread
Eakflanderyof 08.09.22	"i was actually talking about if hypocrisy qualifies with someone on twitter and i think we landed on they are a death metal band that is melodic rather than a melodic death metal band" For me, that is what makes them one of the only true melo death bands out of all the ones mentioned here. Gothenburg, by and large, is basically iron maiden with more double kick, tremolo picking, and harsh vocals. And a larger focus on minor key stuff rather than the soaring major key choruses iron maiden has of course lol
Eakflanderyof 08.09.22	I guess a more concise description would be specifically iron maiden mixed with a hint of Swedish death metal
Willie 08.09.22	Dark Tranquillity Insomnium At the Gates Carcass
JeremiahBullfrog 08.09.22	Dissection Doesn't really belong here if we are going to nitpick, I'd say they're closer to Black Metal if anything, at the very least Blackened Death Metal.
JeremiahBullfrog 08.09.22	If we aren't gonna nitpick, then 1000% Dissection
Heppasodge 08.09.22	The children of bodom issue is tricky. I actually kind of agree that they might be pretty important here. They aren’t mainly thrash metal, they aren’t mainly power metal, they aren’t purely symphonic dm, and they are described pretty much everywhere as melodic death metal. And the scale/popularity of the band is in a pretty high league
JeremiahBullfrog 08.09.22	There's some bands that just fit the description "Extreme Metal" I.E Cradle Of Filth, Children Of Bodom, Dissection, Thulcandra etc
Heppasodge 08.09.22	Yeah ok I agree with that. They are kind of unorthodox fit for the classic melodeath sound
Egarran 08.09.22	Thankfully the wiki crew already had this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMelodic_death_metal#Children_Of_Bodom
SomeCallMeTim 08.09.22	Dismember single-handedly created melodeath with the first two minutes of 'Dismembered'
Willie 08.09.22	Reading that wiki page gave me a headache.
Egarran 08.09.22	Sorry about that.
Willie 08.09.22	Ha ha. The CoB discussion was mostly coherent, but I made the mistake of reading further... people trying to call Killswitch Engage melodic death metal. People trying to remove In Flames' early stuff calling them 'rock'. People trying to cut Carcass' later albums from discussion. What the hell. Then there was the one dumbass trying to delete the entire page saying Melodic Death Metal isn't a genre.
Masochist 08.09.22	In Flames Dark Tranquility At the Gates Arch Enemy I added nothing to this conversation
TheSpirit 08.09.22	calling early KSE melodeath doesn't sound too farfetched to me considering they were just melodeath w/breakdowns ... the rest is more headscratching imo
Willie 08.09.22	--calling early KSE melodeath doesn't sound too farfetched to me considering they were just melodeath w/breakdowns-- I can agree with that. I was thinking about everything after that when I read the original comment.
sonictheplumber 08.09.22	ACDC :D