SharkTooth
12.03.21 | Squeeze is 1 |
ArsMoriendi
12.03.21 | Bad ranking
4 > 1 > 3 > 2
2 is mostly bland |
GhandhiLion
12.03.21 | 1>4 >>>3>>>>>>2 |
Ryus
12.03.21 | ^correct rankings above |
porcupinetheater
12.03.21 | Anyone with WL/WH not at 1 is wrong. Anyone with WL/WH at the bottom should be banned from listening to music |
Cimnele
12.03.21 | wife life/wife feet |
wham49
12.03.21 | it is almost completely backward |
wham49
12.03.21 | totally agree porc |
WeepingBanana
12.03.21 | 3 is the best |
wojodta
12.03.21 | 3 is the best [2] |
Sinternet
12.03.21 | 1>4>3>2 probably |
fogza
12.03.21 | 1 is definitely 1 though |
WeepingBanana
12.03.21 | The guitar work on 3 is like, what if The Rolling Stones foresaw jangle pop but to a greater extent than they already did |
JKing92
12.03.21 | I actually think there are many VU songs (even outside of the third album) whose guitar work foresaw jangle pop. The guitar work on songs like "I'm Waiting for the Man," "There She Goes Again," "Who Loves the Sun," and "Sweet Jane" could definitely slot into, say, an R.E.M. song (not entirely coincidentally, a band that was heavily influenced by the VU!). And that's just one genre they were ahead of the curve on. |
GhandhiLion
12.03.21 | Twas a huge influence on Galaxie 500 |
rockarollacola
12.04.21 | banana |
DoofDoof
12.04.21 | Boring album covers vs banana |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.04.21 | this is a terrible ranking |
tectactoe
12.04.21 | swap 4 and 2 tbh |
GhandhiLion
12.04.21 | holy god of bad takes |
Winesburgohio
12.04.21 | My ranking would align w/ chronological order but it's also really cool how they continued to evolve w/ each album |
tectactoe
12.04.21 | it appears that is most people’s rankings as well. except for you weirdos who prefer WL/WH over TVU&N. perplexing. |
sixdegrees
12.04.21 | hmm |
Winesburgohio
12.04.21 | i'd say the gap between TVU+N & WL/WH is vanishingly small myself |
fogza
12.04.21 | hehehe Tec I finally agree with you about something |
tectactoe
12.04.21 | Perhaps because this is my most agreeable opinion 🤣 |
Pheromone
12.04.21 | this is so wrong
wl/wh > tvu > tvun > i havent listened to this one |
tectactoe
12.05.21 | ^cannot get behind this at all |
neekafat
12.05.21 | Wont bother with the rest if 1 is 1 |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.05.21 | Wl/wh is mildly based and 3 has some good sappy boy rock, so maybe check them in a few years
Phero is correct, 1 has some stunners and a load of big time turds |
GhandhiLion
12.05.21 | name one. It's turdless |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.05.21 | Waiting For the Man and Run Run Run are two of the dullest rock songs ever recorded
Femme Fatale and I'll Be Your Mirror are plain bad
Black Angel's Death Song is a drag, and while European Son is too cool to hit the shitter, it's a pretty lame warmup for Sister Ray in hindsight
that's like half the album. many turds |
sixdegrees
12.05.21 | L |
tectactoe
12.05.21 | ‘Run Run Run’ is the closest that album has to a “weak” spot. Citing ‘Waiting for the Man’ as dull and ‘Femme Fatale’ as bad is indicative of acute brain damage. Please schedule an MRI at your earliest convenience. |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.05.21 | k, and I'll be sure to grab you some new crutches on the way out; fuck knows you could use something stronger to support your comebacks than whichever pathetic sequence of neurological slurs
ig this band really is for straggled adults still trying to clutch onto some arbitrary source of subversion. keep grasping. |
tectactoe
12.05.21 | Ah yes, to be young and naive enough to believe that true credibility sprouts from the wokeness of loudly professing distaste for revered classics to anyone willing to listen. Maybe if I ever get around to dusting the cobwebs off of my own underwear I can study up on the hundreds of albums you think are better and/or more influential. That would imply you’ve ever written something worth reading, though. |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.05.21 | this is a TVU topic list and i was invited to share my least favourite cuts from one album (which is a thankless task and not one I'd otherwise volunteer to)
you are angry and using registers beneath most anyone on this site for reasons that i cannot understand, so can only really attribute to kneejerk gatekeeping (willing to be corrected). cool your jets, act your age, stop reading credibility as a vested motive for casual exchange of opinions, and reply in your own time. |
tectactoe
12.05.21 | And I planted my rebuttal - raising awareness for brain damage is not a slur as you’ve (incorrectly) cited. I am genuinely concerned for your health, my boy. You are very, VERY quick to anger recently. Jousting with you used to be genuinely enjoyable. You’d give it back but still in a moderately playful way. I dunno what’s gotten into you recently but it’s cool man. Dunno if you’re having a bad day/week/year or what but I’ve never known you to get this bent out of shape with minimal prodding. (For the record, rubbing someone about denouncing a classic in a thread about that very classic is not “gatekeeping” - you can’t just throw that word around whenever you want.)
Your TVU opinions are valid, very well constructed, and supported by lots of good insight. I especially loved your use of the word “turd.” Apologies for interceding into the thoughtful deliberation with my nonsense. This place used to be fun. |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.05.21 | >tells user to get an MRI scan over difference of opinion
>raising awareness for brain damage
this is tasteless and you know it, and trying to pass it off this innocuous is more tasteless still. it was a duff comment, and that's the only point I'm invested in here - dunno what gives you the impression I, or anyone itt, came in for lengthy discourse about TVU. drop the act and show a little class, please. striving to do the same, but after over three successive weeks of severe pain and swelling currently wrapped up in an overlong hospital stay, it's looking like a work in progress. I've don't have any other grief with you, but it's no joy watching things get so sour over a crass choice of words that I'd have usually expected and tbh respected you to fess up to. |
sixdegrees
12.05.21 | insane in the membrane
insane in the brain |
ArsMoriendi
12.05.21 | "Waiting For the Man and Run Run Run are two of the dullest rock songs ever recorded
Femme Fatale and I'll Be Your Mirror are plain bad
Black Angel's Death Song is a drag, and while European Son is too cool to hit the shitter, it's a pretty lame warmup for Sister Ray in hindsight
that's like half the album. many turds"
Whoa whoa Femme Fatale and Black Angel's Death Song are fantastic, and I'll Be Your Mirror is endearing, and Waiting for the Man's lyrics make up for its musical dullness pretty well
I guess I agree about Run Run Run though
|
JohnnyoftheWell
12.05.21 | will concede that Waiting For the Man's lyrics carry most of its punch tbh, not enough to save it for me but there's defs something there |
ArsMoriendi
12.05.21 | For me Run Run Run and There She Goes Again are the only meh songs on TVU&N |
fogza
12.05.21 | "Femme Fatale and I'll Be Your Mirror are plain bad"
Man I'm just gonna stay away from this thread, it will be bad for my health
|
neekafat
12.05.21 | Gotta say, the raising awareness bit is unforgettable |
tectactoe
12.05.21 | I guess I am just a bit mussed that *this* was the comment that triggered such unwavering kickback. It can be argued that more than anything else, this god forsaken website is a forum for us like-minded internet compadres to shame each other’s most outrageous opinions. I mean look at poor OP - everyone who’s posted here has told him or her now shit their TVU ranking is.
You are not naive enough to believe that I *truly* believe you to have brain damage. That much is obvious. But - and perhaps this is me being to cynical / jaded / crass / out of touch with the current landscape? - I also didn’t believe that to be a ribbing of particular insensitivity. Obviously I could be wrong here, and it’s a matter of opinion anyway, but this was just a slightly more extreme version of “did you bump your head?” I was not implying something in-line with the r-word or somesuch and if that’s indeed how it was received than i apologize for the nebulousness. Otherwise it’s akin to calling someone with disagreeable musical taste “deaf” in jest. I suppose to could be strangely misconstrued as tastelessly albeist or something but i think the colloquial interpretation is not so severe. Again, if i’m underplaying the severity of my comment than maybe i’m just wandering around with my head in the sand.
Either way I do apologize if that’s legitimately the point of contention here and if my political incorrectness compass is a bit eschewed compared to what’s morally agreeable nowadays I can own, accept, and work on that. but I also think you know I wasn’t operating anywhere in the realm of seriousness; it was my attempt at a good-natured teasing in opposition to your comments on the album, and sensitivity aside, there’s no way in your heart of hearts thought i was being purposely malicious, esp. enough to warrant this response. I can accept having been unintentionally tone-deaf but you absolutely know there was no animosity in my comment.
I extend my apology to anyone else who may have been offended by my brain damage comment and assure you it was not meant synonymously with congenital afflictions of mental capacity. |
porcupinetheater
12.05.21 | Nico Banana is interesting and maybe a couple years ahead of its time
But then they split off to make WL/WH and Marble Index which are both a couple decades ahead and so much more interesting than anything that showed up on Bananarama |
tectactoe
12.05.21 | "Sister Ray" is (nearly) peak TVU. Every other track on the record is extremely strong, too, and honestly WL/WH is probably more "consistently great" than TVU&N; however I've always felt that TVU&N's highs are higher to the extent of being untouchable - "Sunday Morning" is up there with "God Only Knows", "Care of Cell 44", and "Along Again Or" as greatest (and catchiest) psychedelic pop songs of all time, "Venus In Furs" is a wonderful exercise in staunch, almost ritualistic dissonance, "Heroin" is as bold (thematically and structurally) a rock song as any up to the late-sixties, and "European Son" is perhaps the first true indication of what modern noise rock would eventually become. Aside from those masterpieces, there isn't a bad (or even merely mediocre/"decent") song on the thing - I get the ambivalence toward "Run Run Run" as it's easily the most garden-variety track there, but "Femme Fatale", "Waiting for the Man", "All Tomorrow's Parties", "There She Goes Again", etc., are timeless. |
fogza
12.05.21 | For me Banana is just a collection of great songs - great insights, stories and sounds but also the right balance. I don't even need to look at the contextual importance of it to enjoy it, although that is there as well. |
fogza
12.05.21 | It's kinda weird for me that someone would diss people for liking the Banana album and claim listeners of TVU of it are mistakenly looking for subversion that's become tame, then rep WL/WH. |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.05.21 | @tec thanks for your reply. Long story short, the issue-behind-my-issue was that your comment didn't scan either as good natured or as blithe teasing (which I'm ofc always dtf with), but I find it easy to take your words in good faith and am sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick there
To clarify where I'm coming from, the reason I found that choice of words so specifically distasteful in a way that an overfamiliar "r u deaf" or even a r-word (undesirable, but ultimately so interchangeable with other single-word putdowns that it's hard to get personally worked up about it, as per the Pyg (???) thread) wouldn't have been was that it was an original formulation and therefore scanned as though you were intentionally and actively reaching for and reworking ableist subject matter for a pot shot. The tropes ("bumped ur head" etc) are just tropes, but I feel someone's own words carry their own weight and intention - and in this case, this seemed overwhelmingly pernicious. Now that we're both clear this wasn't the case there's no need to address any of this, but I hope it gives you an indicator of why I reached for a strong response.
Personally, I don't mind shredding the hell out of people for bad takes or taste etc, or certain lifestyle things if they're memeable (like Colton), but I try to leave the stuff none of us are here for above water, whether that's career, romantic, physique or health-related. None of those are lines I enjoy seeing crossed by anyone tbh, even in jest (occasional exceptions and I'm no saint, but you get the picture). Not asking you to agree, just to show you where I'm coming from
Anyway, I think that's about that. Sorry if you felt unduly put on blast, but I'm cool if you're cool |
tectactoe
12.06.21 | Of course we're cool. I've never not been cool with you, and I wouldn't care so much about your retaliation were you not one of my favorite people here. I don't mind my crassness being called out either, esp. if it's deserved; viz., the r-word incident previously - in that instance, I *knew* it was a tone-deaf and insensitive comment, hence why I was very quick to apologize and gracelessly put my own foot in my mouth. Compare to this case, wherein I was genuinely perplexed as to what set off the seemingly heated rejoinder, and still baffled even after the key term was identified. But thank you for clarifying further - I see where you're coming from now and can say with even greater confidence that it was just a bit of mixed signals, though that doesn't preclude my duty to apologize for having been offensive, intentional or not.
All I can say (not as a further rebuttal or defense - the hatchet is certainly buried but I do feel I owe it to explain my thought process) is that, having written extensively and somewhat obsessively about films for the better part of a decade, part of the challenge as a writer is finding ways to make words sound "fresh" after having farted out thousands and thousands of capsules, so it's become partially hardwired in my faculties to refurbish dusty terms, phrases, figures of speech, etc. in "my own" terms. And this was merely an illustration of that. Bad opinion = you must've hit your head = brain damage = please get an MRI. Again, not a justification, just an explanation from my side that I feel you're owed.
In any case, I love you and you know that I can assure you that 99.9% of the stuff I say/type here is in jest. That doesn't mean I shouldn't be called out for being unknowingly insensitive or uncouth but if there's ever a doubt as to whether my barbs are meant to be intentionally cruel or mean-spirited, I can assure you they are not :o) |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.06.21 | Ayy ayy, much love all round and v much on board with the sentiment behind trying to make words jump out of those crusty, crusty circuitboards - v familiar struggle, I understand entirely. Consider my skin glazed and retanned; keep them barbs coming ;] |
Havey
12.06.21 | @jonny ur brain small |
ArsMoriendi
12.06.21 | Here's my controversial opinion:
TVU shouldn't have its noise rock tag
Experimental? sure. Psychedelic? I mean their 3rd album is not so much, but the other 3 have psych moments. Noise rock? Only 3 songs on TVU&N, like 2 songs on WL/WH, and NOTHING on TVU or Loaded.
The band is very much a "classic rock" band most of the time, so a regular rock tag would be far more fitting
Experimental/Rock/Psychedelic |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.06.21 | havey go eat an allergy and then find me in the 77 Live thread if you're still horny and want to talk about great bands |
tectactoe
12.06.21 | I will say that i’m surprised, johnnyboy, you, being sput’s most outspoken champion of The Youth, noise rock extraordinaires, don’t jibe with TVU more, if even on some spiritual level or obligatory principle. Hackneyed as the phrase and ideology may be, it’s hard to imagine a world where TVU&N and WL/WH don’t exist and ‘Daydream Nation’ still manages to come to fruition. This might be geriatric subversion rock, but - and maybe this is just the thirtysomething in me screaming to be heard - i also think you can’t completely toss historical relativism into the bin. |
JohnnyoftheWell
12.06.21 | Oh don't get me wrong, I respect the lineage big time - how well TVU have aged and how valuable they've been to 50% of all genres worth hearing are v much two separate matters to me, and I'd never go so far as to say track x shouldn't never have existed; their hit ratio might be scatty, but the marks that count v much vindicate ye olde nicoturds. Would circle back to what Ars said though; much as their influence on SY and other walks of noise rock is beyond question, I think this is somewhat contained within q specific parts of their discog
As for actively personally (somewhat) passionately appreciating them, Venus/Heroin/most of WL/most of the drippy twee stuff on 3 are all enough to keep them above a history book band for me |
WeepingBanana
12.06.21 | VU (1985) and Another View are really really good also. Kinda more streamlined rockin’ stuff for when you’re more in that mood |
GhandhiLion
12.06.21 | sonic youth are a history book band |
tectactoe
12.06.21 | and from where do u think they learnt it |
WeepingBanana
12.06.21 | Not gonna see if this was already brought up but did anyone watch the new TVU documentary by Todd Haynes? I thought it was pretty cool, if a little Warhol heavy, but I guess that’s to be expected |
GhandhiLion
12.06.21 | it was a good doc yep |
DoofDoof
12.06.21 | 3 might be top for me |