ramon.: any other posers in the chat

ramon. 10.22.22	may or may not add more contingent on the frequency of startling revelations during my daily errands
ramon. 10.22.22	oh man, i've decided a rating before even listening, then changed the rating over the course of the discourse evolving, without having heard it at either point, and coming up with a justification via photosynthesis
Jasdevi087 10.22.22	re: 10, bro 3 songs i kinda like is easy grounds for a 3.5 tbh
IsisScript80 10.22.22	This is great.
Lichtbringer 10.22.22	this was the first funny and witty thing i’ve read in any of the lists i’ve clicked on on this site. props!
kkarron 10.22.22	> writing in all lower case with either sparse or intentionally jilted punctuation to appear chill, aloof, , ! etc (this extends beyond sput but i think its especially interesting here, i think an all lowercase summary says a lot about how annoying a person is as someone who's recently gone back and read a couple of my own reviews) Yo you missed a chance to tag lowercase (the band) in that entry. Here's one - assuming everyone knows all the bands you do and being a dick about it if they don't reference them as a cheap gag.
Egarran 10.22.22	I use BBCode to make 'funny' ratings, and refuse to tell noobs how to do it cos I want to feel special and 15
ArsMoriendi 10.22.22	I’m only guilty of 14
ramon. 10.22.22	@Licht I’m so sorry to hear that @Johnny let’s see em @Storm plumb the depths
Colton 10.22.22	i have never actually listened to music in my whole life i’m too scared
granitenotebook 10.22.22	14 is so fucking true guilty of several on here
PotsyTater 10.22.22	This is the best list of the year
PotsyTater 10.22.22	Contribution: slapping a placeholder rating on albums before they were released to eternally reserve your spot as the first person to have rated them on sputnikmusic.com
foxblood 10.22.22	^classic stuff lol
rabidfish 10.22.22	i'm definitely 10. Sorry. well actually... nah, i'm not sorry. Sorry.
Source 10.22.22	didn't use this list as an opportunity to rep extol neg
Sunnyvale 10.22.22	Great list. I've been known to occasionally post "check Grotesque" but I've never actually listened to Grotesque.
DoofDoof 10.22.22	i do post lower case here a lot now i thought it was the law never elsewhere tho
FellHanded 10.22.22	I unironically have done 4 so many times
Egarran 10.22.22	yup me too doof i went like 10 years with capitalization and punctuations twas all a waste
notagenius 10.23.22	I am prob 7 (overtly wordy) good list insightful summary
twlight 10.23.22	"writing in all lower case with either sparse or intentionally" as you write this entire list in lower case? love it
Tyler. 10.23.22	this list is SO me
Sinternet 10.23.22	people do any of this? aside from the lowercase thing its just easier and no one with more than two braincells to rub together cares about capitalising sentences on an irrelevant forum i guess one thing i do is get triggered when people call things 'overrated' because its the stupidest concept in history
Colton 10.23.22	what does that even mean
Gestapo 10.23.22	elite
Sinternet 10.23.22	the idea that something can be considered 'overrated' implies an elitist mentality in which one's own enjoyment of something is superior to others and invalidates another person's enjoyment as lesser
DoofDoof 10.23.22	only rating one album per artist
Egarran 10.23.22	quite agreeable sint over- and underrated are terms for cultural primitives
Lichtbringer 10.23.22	well, it's not my enjoyment that is superior to that of others, but my knowledge. i'm not a teenager or otherwise nondescript uneducated person of which there are countless types floating around on and off the internet. i've listened to, played and analysed music and cultivated my tastes for years, plus i have a half a brain, which i can't say the majority of music listeners or humans in general have done or have. if this position makes me an elitist, you have a warped sense of humility in which no one is allowed to recognise and asses their own knowledge in relation to others without being called an arrogant dick or, well, a primitive. perspective is important: am i some god that knows everything, can't be wrong or taught about anything? absolutely not. do i know more about music than most: damn right i do.
rabidfish 10.23.22	It is more that my own lack of enjoyment of something is more meaningful and spiritually significant than your enjoyment.
ramon. 10.23.22	"didn't use this list as an opportunity to rep extol neg" came close to adding "not being christian enough in the transitions department"
CalculatingInfinity 10.23.22	"plus i have a half a brain, which i can't say the majority of music listeners or humans in general have done or have." Imagine writing this unironically. Fantastic content ramon, as always.
Mort. 10.23.22	'the idea that something can be considered 'overrated' implies an elitist mentality in which one's own enjoyment of something is superior to others and invalidates another person's enjoyment as lesser' overrated doesnt imply any of this. sin what the fuck are you on about?
Mort. 10.23.22	'i think this piece of art is overrated' does not equal a mentality where ones own enjoyment of something is superior to others and others enjoyment is lesser. im so far away from understanding this point of view that i dont even know what i think my issue with it is
Mort. 10.23.22	saying something is 'overrated' is usually another way of saying 'i dont think this is as important or has as much artistic merit as other people think it does', nothing to do with ENJOYMENT i get that some people do call things overrated with a sort of sneering, up turned nose elitist mindset, but id say its a perfectly fine and understandable term most of the time especially on a music criticism website, its probably most at home as a term
Colton 10.23.22	the fact that grown adults who use music forums daily can see a term like "overrated" and not understand that it's entirely subjective will always be mind boggling to me
Colton 10.23.22	I imagine you guys ordering pizza with your friends and someone goes "let's not get it from Domino's, Domino's sucks" and you go "OH MY GOD IT DOESN'T OBJECTIVELY SUCK YOU ELITIST"
Colton 10.23.22	music is a fundamentally subjective art form so any qualitative analysis about it will be subjective by default and it's super lame to police people's language as a result of not understanding that /rant
Mort. 10.23.22	yah i guess if sins problem is with people using the term like its objective i get it
Colton 10.23.22	he is probably saying that it inherently implies objectivity. normaloctagon makes the same argument
combustion07 10.23.22	"I’ve edited some ancient comments to make conversations more interesting." Not gonna lie I wholeheartedly plan to steal this idea now! List is great
DavidYowi 10.23.22	There’s definitely some albums that I’ve rated a 3 or a 3.5 where if you asked me what I think about it I’d say it kinda sucks
PotsyTater 10.23.22	It’s like the only way Colton can drip feed his thirsty happy-meal sized brain is by framing the painfully evident kindergarten level “insights” he spouts 24/7 on this site as if he’s the Jesus Christ of embryonic music concepts Dude would pop a boner explaining object permanence to a fork.
Sinternet 10.23.22	"saying something is 'overrated' is usually another way of saying 'i dont think this is as important or has as much artistic merit as other people think it does', nothing to do with ENJOYMENT" which is again defining yourself as the sole arbiter of artistic worth/merit and textbook elitism. what even is "artistic merit" supposed to mean anyway? the concept relies on their being an objective way in which we can measure/criticise art, rather than any value statement being applied to art being ultimately subjective, or else rendered invalid. "'i think this piece of art is overrated' does not equal a mentality where ones own enjoyment of something is superior to others and others enjoyment is lesser. im so far away from understanding this point of view that i dont even know what i think my issue with it is" because the concept invalidates the fact that other people rate something highly? you can not enjoy something on a personal level, that doesn't mean it's incorrectly rated by everyone else. if you want to say you don't like something as much as someone else you can do so, they haven't it hasn't been "overrated" by people who enjoy it.
Sinternet 10.23.22	"I imagine you guys ordering pizza with your friends and someone goes "let's not get it from Domino's, Domino's sucks" and you go "OH MY GOD IT DOESN'T OBJECTIVELY SUCK YOU ELITIST"" are you seriously this stupid? saying you think something sucks is not an objective value statement, it's a subjective opinion. there's plenty of stuff lots of people like that i don't, that i say sucks. it's not overrated because i, the sole person who is allowed to enjoy things, decided that everyone else is not rating something to it's true worth. hwo the fuck do you try giving other people advice on this site when you can't grasp the simplest of concepts, like the amount of cognitive dissonance necessary to create that scenario is ridiculous
Mort. 10.23.22	“which is again defining yourself as the sole arbiter of artistic worth/merit and textbook elitism.“ Yeah i think this the crux of our disagreement sin. I simply dont get how you think someone is defining themselves as the sole arbiter of artistic worth/merit just by that. Seems like a massive leap to me and a misunderstanding of how language works
sixdegrees 10.23.22	I am the sole arbiter of artistic worth
Mort. 10.23.22	““artistic merit" supposed to mean anyway? the concept relies on their being an objective way in which we can measure/criticise art” Yeah i pretty strongly disagree with this. Stop viewing all uses of language as endorsements of strong philosophical concepts. Saying something lacks artistic merit can mean you just think its generic, uninspired, something you personally dont find worth listening to etc. youre so jazzed up on hating elitists youre endorsing some really dumb views on language
Mort. 10.23.22	also if we are gonna rage on terms, id much rather rage on people who complain about elitism all the time a certain amount of elitism is good and healthy no i wont explain
Mort. 10.23.22	in fact this whole thing reminds me of the people in ethics who when you go 'murder is bad' would start ranting on objectivity and subjectivity as if you were endorsing some sort of robust philosophical project where youre laying claim to having knowledge of objective moral truths stop taking language on holiday and thinking its implying more than it is
Mort. 10.23.22	also apologies because in retrospect my commments are pretty rude and salty ive got nothing against you im just full of lamb rendang and feeling feisty
Colton 10.23.22	“ are you seriously this stupid? saying you think something sucks is not an objective value statement, it's a subjective opinion. there's plenty of stuff lots of people like that i don't, that i say sucks. it's not overrated because i, the sole person who is allowed to enjoy things, decided that everyone else is not rating something to it's true worth. hwo the fuck do you try giving other people advice on this site when you can't grasp the simplest of concepts, like the amount of cognitive dissonance necessary to create that scenario is ridiculous” saying “this album sucks” is no more subjective of a statement than “this is overrated.” they are both entirely subjective because music is subjective. things that are judged on fundamentally subjective criteria can only be judged subjectively. it’s beyond me how somebody could have a hard time understanding this honestly. go off and call me stupid again if you want but you’re not presenting a very compelling argument here
Sinternet 10.23.22	"Saying something lacks artistic merit can mean you just think its generic, uninspired, something you personally dont find worth listening to etc. youre so jazzed up on hating elitists youre endorsing some really dumb views on language" then say those things? you can't make an objective value statement on art and then reframe it as meaning a totally different subjective value statement. artistic merit is whether you find something worth listening to, really? the merit of art is based on your personal whims? this is such an egocentric view that i can't really wrap my head around it, this isn't artistic merit, it's your personal interest and engagement. if you don't want these uses of language terms to be taken as endorsement of these concepts, then don't use them? there's a whole world of things you can use to describe why a personal subjective view without making an objective statement, like this isn't a case of someone misusing the word 'literally' here. "a certain amount of elitism is good and healthy no i wont explain" because it's based off a narcissistic and egocentric worldview that echoes fascistic hierarchies? or do you have some unique reason why elitism is 'good and healthy' "in fact this whole thing reminds me of the people in ethics who when you go 'murder is bad' would start ranting on objectivity and subjectivity as if you were endorsing some sort of robust philosophical project where youre laying claim to having knowledge of objective moral truths" how dense do you have to be to equate these scenarios? i'm talking about how using an objective statement to display a subjective opinion on art irks me. why are you bringing an ethics dilemma in as an equation to art criticism. the whole point of subjectivity in art is that any 'objective' view ultimately stems from an arbitrary and/or subjective hierarchy/value statement.
Colton 10.23.22	“ it's not overrated because i, the sole person who is allowed to enjoy things, decided that everyone else is not rating something to it's true worth. hwo the fuck do you try giving other people advice on this site when you can't grasp the simplest of concepts” why don’t you take a deep breath, and using your inside voice, explain how you can’t make that same argument by saying “ it sucks because i, the sole person who is allowed to enjoy things, decided that everyone else is not rating something to it's true worth”
Colton 10.23.22	sinternet i’m sorry that the whole world doesn’t hold your hand and directly explicitly tell you that their obviously subjective opinions are subjective opinions
YoYoMancuso 10.23.22	Picturing you guys fuming while typing these comments is bringing me joy
Colton 10.23.22	I’m on break at work rn. got another 49 minutes to do this shit and get paid for it
Mort. 10.23.22	damn sin you need to chill rofl 'because it's based off a narcissistic and egocentric worldview that echoes fascistic hierarchies? or do you have some unique reason why elitism is 'good and healthy'' oh my lord the reaching
Mort. 10.23.22	im sorry sin i used to sort of respect you but youve honestly demonstrated youre incredibly dense in just a few comments try to read a philosophy of language book, it might help you
Colton 10.23.22	from now on I will phrase comments on threads that sinternet is a part of like this: “the production on this album is really great IN MY OPINION. the songwriting is really strong and diverse IN MY OWN SUBJECTIVE VIEW, I AM NOT MAKING AN OBJECTIVE DECLARATION. this is definitely their best album yet IN MY OWN PERCEPTION WHICH DOES NOT NEGATE OR ERASE THE EQUALLY VALID PERCEPTIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE GUYS PLEASE THIS IS JUST MY OPINION”
IsisScript80 10.23.22	Best list thread I've ever seen on here, go away for a bit and watch it take a nosedive in the comments.
Colton 10.23.22	let’s just put subjectivity disclaimers on every qualitative assessment of music so sinternet can understand
Mort. 10.23.22	'you can't make an objective value statement on art and then reframe it as meaning a totally different subjective value statement. artistic merit is whether you find something worth listening to, really? the merit of art is based on your personal whims? this is such an egocentric view that i can't really wrap my head around it, this isn't artistic merit, it's your personal interest and engagement. ' my lord dude, youre so dumb its painful. i dont even know what to say to this. its such a wilful misunderstanding of how people speak
Mort. 10.23.22	colton thank you for actually having a brain its really warming to see someone who isnt a raving moron itt
Colton 10.23.22	“ i'm talking about how using an objective statement to display a subjective opinion on art irks me.” I guarantee I could go into probably any thread you’ve commented on more than 5 times and find countless examples of you doing exactly this
Colton 10.23.22	thank you mort please store this goodwill toward me until we meet again in a metalcore thread, I want a free pass
Sinternet 10.23.22	"saying “this album sucks” is no more subjective of a statement than “this is overrated.” they are both entirely subjective because music is subjective." well done sherlock, you've managed to decipher exaclt wht i've been repeating, that all art criticism is subjective. gold star for colton! what you seem to be struggling with is that the term overrated implies there exists a specific value or rating assigned to a piece of art. for something to be OVERrated there must exist a correct 'rating', which can only exist through an objective statement. by calling something overrated you endorse and uphold an objective view, making it an objective statement. saying 'this sucks' could be seen as objective too, but the implication there is that the phrase 'i think' precedes it, which makes that statement subjective, but adding an implied 'i think' in front of 'this is overrated' still endorses an implies and objective value statement. "things that are judged on fundamentally subjective criteria can only be judged subjectively" wow its exactly what i said except used to reinforce the opposite argument? if you agree with this, why defend the implication of an objective hierarchy
Rawmeeth38 10.23.22	You’re missing out on electronic music man
Colton 10.23.22	^ i ran this through my johnny comment translator and it came out as “sinternet get fucked”
Mort. 10.23.22	No worries man. Anyways, im off to be egocentric by expressing my subjective opinions through language a normal person would use without having some pleb make gargantuan reaches to assume i believe things i dont believe God i love myself
Colton 10.23.22	if you acknowledge that the quality of music is fundamentally subjective how could you possibly not understand that statements like “this sucks” are also subjective? and no, you don’t have to say “I think” for that to be the case. your inability to decipher context here is honestly incredible also, are you genuinely telling me that you’ve never said “this sucks” or “this is amazing” without preceding it with an “I think” or something along those lines? you obviously haven’t and are obviously being a massive hypocrite right now because of that
Colton 10.23.22	idk who you’re even talking to
DoofDoof 10.23.22	has this now become one of those arguments where all parties might actually be agreeing on 90% of what's being said anyway?
YoYoMancuso 10.23.22	tomatoes are vegetables. you can’t change my mind. fuck all of you.
Mort. 10.23.22	I dunno man i struggle to parse half of what johnny says, hes so far down that well and my brain is lazy and tired Its my brothers b day gonna eat cake and drink tea now then maybe listen to some objectively bad music
Dedes 10.23.22	I would like to add spamming "check Helcaraxe" in extremely non melodic Death Metal threads because I think it's all somehow a stroke of comical genius
Colton 10.23.22	johnny’s comments have been especially fedora-like as of late yeah
Colton 10.23.22	I would like to hear sinternet’s response to the (very obviously true and verifiable) assertion that he makes “objective” statements such as “this album sucks” without a fucking subjectivity disclaimer preceding them. bet he’s the type of guy to make people use the “/s” sarcasm tag too
Colton 10.23.22	go nap old man i’ll tell you later
Rawmeeth38 10.23.22	There’s no way Johnny’s typing all these comments without a thesaurus on hand
Sinternet 10.23.22	mort you are deliberately (i assume) missing my point here. my point isn't that people use that term to mean specifically that objective statement it implies, i'm well aware it's used in a colloquial subjective sense, just that I personally (subjectively, whoop) dislike the misuse/any use of that term which was what my original somewhat throwaway statement was in the first place for christ sake. i've never said people don't misuse the word to mean other things. look i get that you have your fancy philosophy degree or whatever but so far you haven't elaborated on anything you've said and just introduced other concepts to the discussion in a snorty way, so please can you explain to someone with a fairly basic knowledge of the philosophy required to debate this, outside of the colloquial linguistic angle which i thought was obvious enough that it was implied already, what justifies the use of the term in art criticism without it implying objectivity?
Colton 10.23.22	The Tallest Man on Earth is amazing check out The Wild Hunt after your nap
Colton 10.23.22	sinternet the colloquial linguistic angle is the entire reason your argument makes no sense. now you’re saying “ok but outside of the thing that destroys my entire argument and renders it completely irrelevant, what else ya got?”
Hyperion1001 10.23.22	the most effective trolling you can do on this website is post your actual opinions and actively defend them. im not funny or witty enough to actually troll but I figured out a long time ago if I just post what I actually think it elicits even funnier responses.
Colton 10.23.22	also still waiting for you to answer me guess you can’t
Sinternet 10.23.22	colton if you could fucking read i literally argued that saying something 'sucks' IS a subjective statement, because when you add the implied 'i think' before the statement it represents a personal value statement thats entirely subjective, where as if you use 'i think something is overrated' it still implies there being an objective rating
Colton 10.23.22	1) you can say “this sucks” without saying “I think” and it’s still subjective 2) saying “I think this is overrated” is very clearly subjective, it explicitly conveys subjectivity while also referring to “ratings” which are a fundamentally subjective concept. it’s literally doubly subjective and you still can’t understand
Colton 10.23.22	johnny not every album has polished autotuned vocals, there is something to be said for an earnest and raw delivery that you will forever be too soft to understand his guitar playing is also as rhythmically sound as music can get, which is basically your kryptonite
Colton 10.23.22	you’re still dodging the question btw sinty boi. do you or do you not say things like “this album sucks” without saying “I think”?
Colton 10.23.22	holy fuck i broke him lmao
Colton 10.23.22	man’s fuming under the covers rn 😂
Parallels 10.23.22	I will continue to do 2 and I don't care if you're not in on the fun
Parallels 10.23.22	I had good, hearty, and sucessively larger chuckles at 20 through 22.
Sinternet 10.23.22	"sinternet the colloquial linguistic angle is the entire reason your argument makes no sense. now you’re saying “ok but outside of the thing that destroys my entire argument and renders it completely irrelevant, what else ya got?”" it was never my argument though? sure maybe i should have acknowledged it beforehand, i feel it's pretty obviously implied, but my argument is and always has been that the term itself is useless in art criticism because of the implied objectivity, not that people often misuse it in place of some other subjective statement they wanted to make, it's a completely different argument than the one i was having, but so far the only engagement anyone's offered on that premise is "elitism is good and healthy" which i met with an equally facetious reply this is why when mort decides to equate it to 'hurr durr ethics people telling you you can't say murder is bad' its silly, because i'm engaging the concept, not the real world usage. there's plenty of ethical discussion to be had on a more abstract/greater level about whether murder is bad or not than, which in parallel is what i'm trying to engage with here, the correct and actual use of the term 'overrated', not people misusing it in a colloquial sense to refer to other things which is what the parallel of someone interjecting with 'murder is bad?' argument into a tangentially related argument would be
Mort. 10.23.22	buddy i can get deeper into it with you another time if youd like but right now im eating cake and chilling with fam
Colton 10.23.22	can you actually explain the “implied objectivity” of the word “overrated”? how does it imply “other people have the wrong rating and I have the right one” any more than saying “this album sucks” implies that people who think it doesn’t suck are wrong? it’s literally the exact same thing
Sinternet 10.23.22	im really struggling here, i didn't know someone could actually skip over the actual point this much
Mort. 10.23.22	but from a very quick glance at your comment i still think your assumption of 'implied objectivity' is the very bottom of our disagreement. i simply dont think it implies objectivity.
Mort. 10.23.22	guys lets be polite about this, we have all been very rude and we could be much nicer than this
Colton 10.23.22	^ it doesn’t and he won’t even attempt to explain why it does
Colton 10.23.22	break’s over, i’ll catch you guys later
Sinternet 10.23.22	"you’re still dodging the question btw sinty boi. do you or do you not say things like “this album sucks” without saying “I think”?" yes! you don't have to say the words 'i think' because they're implied, which is what i've said twice already! "saying “I think this is overrated” is very clearly subjective, it explicitly conveys subjectivity while also referring to “ratings” which are a fundamentally subjective concept. it’s literally doubly subjective and you still can’t understand" no, because while the phrase 'i think' nearly always precedes a subjective statement, if that statement endorses and upholds an objective benchmark how can it not be seen as objective "buddy i can get deeper into it with you another time if youd like but right now im eating cake and chilling with fam" no worries enjoy bro
Kompys2000 10.23.22	Incredible that ppl here are still taking Colton's bait
Colton 10.23.22	what did I say here that comes off as bait? this isn’t a bjork thread
Colton 10.23.22	sinternet the answer to that question is that there is not and has never been an objective benchmark. I genuinely don’t say this to be a dick, but you learn about opinions and subjectivity at like, 8 years old maybe? children understand that opinions are opinions, whether they pertain to ratings or not
Lichtbringer 10.23.22	i knew before i pressed "submit" i would regret it. but i still did. fokk mey
Kompys2000 10.23.22	Saying the moon is made of cheese is just a subjective opinion and has no implication of an inaccurate belief in anything
Sinternet 10.23.22	"but from a very quick glance at your comment i still think your assumption of 'implied objectivity' is the very bottom of our disagreement. i simply dont think it implies objectivity." cool, that's the discussion i was attempting to have but suddenly get jumped on about people colloquially using it to mean something else, look forward to it and some point and enjoy your evening "can you actually explain the “implied objectivity” of the word “overrated”? how does it imply “other people have the wrong rating and I have the right one” any more than saying “this album sucks” implies that people who think it doesn’t suck are wrong? it’s literally the exact same thing" can you explain how it's not? - for something to be 'overrated' there has to exist a 'rating' for something - that 'rating', in an art criticism context, is based on an average of the enjoyment of all those who consume a piece of media (this might be derived in a numerical fashion on sites such as this from the mean or modal averages, either works) - claiming something to be overrated implies that that collective rating is wrong, and that there exists a more accurate 'rating' (therefore denying the validity of the subjective 'rating' those who contributed to it's collective rating assigned it/claiming that their subjective enjoyment is wrong) - this therefore demonstrates that the person who uses the term believes their own enjoyment/assessment to be more valuable than that of those who disagree bonus! - for their to exist a 'true rating' for something which other people could overrate based on, there would have to be an objective model in which to decipher its value "any more than saying “this album sucks” implies that people who think it doesn’t suck are wrong? it’s literally the exact same thing" the phrase 'this sucks' is not because it doesn't rely on the existence of anyone else's opinion
Sinternet 10.23.22	colton if you could stop repeating my own arguments back at me and using it to justify the opposite that would be great
Kompys2000 10.23.22	I've had this literal exact argument with him sint you're beating your head against a wall of subjectivity
rabidfish 10.23.22	Sint u should read Wittgenstein (if you haven't already)
Mort. 10.23.22	It seems to me sin that i both agree and disagree with you. if you are attempting to make a definition of 'overrated' based on its semantic qualities, yes, its a poor term because it implies too much it cant back up but in colloquial usage overrated doesnt imply any of that, as like many words its a shorthand or stand in for something like 'i dont like this as much as everyone else likes it' and youd be reading too much into to think it implies that and in reference to an earlier comment, where i said 'youre taking language on holiday', this was something Wittgenstein said. i could bang on about wittgenstein for ages but in essence this i found when i googled his quote sums it up simply enough ' 'Wittgenstein said that we restrict words if we try to define them out of their context. He said: "philosophical problems arise when language goes on holiday". Essentially, Wittgenstein is saying that taking language out of context renders it often useless and at the very least, hard to understand fully' so in reference to this discussion, what i was trying to get at was that the sort of analysis of the term overrated that youre doing seems to ignore the context of how the word overrated is used. the becomes clearer if you look at examples of the word being used. like: person 1: did you like album q? person 2: no i dont get it, i think its overrated or person 1 speaking to a friend about a recent album they wrote a review for that theyre having doubts about that 1 - hmmm i dont think i like this album as much as i thought, i think i overrated it one of wittgensteins most famous quotes is “For a large class of cases–though not for all–in which we employ the word “meaning” it can be defined thus: the meaning of a word is its use in the language.” - basically, dont attempt to take a word out of its context and read into its meaning through a semantic analysis (such as in your comment 'for something to be 'overrated' there has to exist a 'rating' for something'). its taking 'language on holiday' (or out of circulation, if you want a currency based metaphor) and leads the sort of confusion itt i hope this was understandable and ive misrepresented any of your comments i apologise. its get hard to follow the train of the argument and what exactly people are saying when a whole discussion gets stretched across a thread like this
Mort. 10.23.22	yo wtf rabid posting wittgenstein while im writing my comment out? weird for context my uni specialised in wittgenstein studies (UEA) and i did my dissertation on wittgenstein. would have liked to carry on with wittgenstein scholarship but i dropped out of my masters cos of covid/mental health issues i do think wittgenstein is one of the best philosophers
Mort. 10.23.22	so in short, i dont think overrated implies what you think it does. i dont think language works that way
Mort. 10.23.22	and also if you would like to read wittgenstein read philosophical investigations and try to read a guide as well because its super easy to misinterpret as is tractatus-logico-philosophicus which is insanely difficult to understand without an academic helping you through it
Kompys2000 10.23.22	Can't speak for anyone else itt but yeah totally agree that the colloquial use has little to do with its actual definition, as with something like, say, casually ableist language, the point is that we could convey the same ideas in a way that has less semantic baggage
Mort. 10.23.22	an interesting word ive always found useful to illustrate the whole use vs semantic meaning discussion is homophobic why does homophobic mean hatred/prejudice towards homosexuals and not fear of humans? homophobia and arachnophobia are two completely different phenomena with almost nothing to do with eachother but the words make them appear as if they do another way of putting this is that the logic of language does not mirror the logic of the world a friend once told me that there cant be multiple genders because the word bisexual exists which implies theres only two genders and i wanted to bash my head into a wall
Mort. 10.23.22	'why does homophobic mean hatred/prejudice towards homosexuals and not fear of humans? homophobia and arachnophobia are two completely different phenomena with almost nothing to do with eachother but the words make them appear as if they do' and the answer to this question is that language comes to be used in ways that has no bearing on how it should be used or would make sense to use etc. its deceptive and slippery and a bit of a bastard really
Sinternet 10.23.22	actually yeah i think i agree with pretty much all of that so thanks for the deeper dive, might have to read a bit more on wittgenstein then i didnt do the best job at explaining at the start what i was referring to and was definitely deep into arguing past each other on different premises, but i do and did recognise that the colloquial use is often not used to relate the concept i was arguing against. the implication of the word was always the focus of my ire, but yes maybe i'm getting too caught up in semantic deconstruction - in fairness this was a thread about 'fraudulent behaviours'. in an earlier comment you mentioned "i get that some people do call things overrated with a sort of sneering, up turned nose elitist mindset" which i guess is the type of use i was attempting to argue against, because it seems like the most literal interpretation of the semantics of the word
Egarran 10.23.22	>2) saying “I think this is overrated” is very clearly subjective, it explicitly conveys subjectivity while also referring to “ratings” which are a fundamentally subjective concept. it’s literally doubly subjective and you still can’t understand Damn. That's good bait right there. Anyway, we can conclude that calling something overrated cannot stand alone, it must be followed by an explanation that subjectifies the overratedness.
Sinternet 10.23.22	but maybe im stepping dangerously into language prescriptivism here which is the last thing i endorse/believe in
Kompys2000 10.23.22	Afaik people either use overrated to mean "my opinion on XYZ is more negative than the general consensus" (fine) or "people enjoy XYZ more than I think they should" (not fine, imo)
Mort. 10.23.22	'actually yeah i think i agree with pretty much all of that so thanks for the deeper dive, might have to read a bit more on wittgenstein then' no worries, sorry i was such a salty ass earlier itt and im by no means an expert on wittgenstein, there are multiple different interpretations as to his philosophy as he was incredibly poor at explaining himself, he barely even read the classics of philosophy (which maybe his explains his revolutionary way of viewing philosophical problems) in relation to the view that language leads to confusion and we have a habit of bringing ourselves into confusion by taking language on holiday, wittgenstein thought many philosophical problems werent problems at all. they were products of linguistic confusion. and the way to deal with them is to show how there is no problem at all, to clear up the linguistic confusion. Philosophical problems would not then be solved, as in, bringing us to an answer that tells us something about the world/language/essence of truth etc. Instead, they would be DISSOLVED. they would evaporate and not trouble us any more. we would stop confusing ourselves
Colton 10.23.22	“ - for something to be 'overrated' there has to exist a 'rating' for something - that 'rating', in an art criticism context, is based on an average of the enjoyment of all those who consume a piece of media (this might be derived in a numerical fashion on sites such as this from the mean or modal averages, either works) - claiming something to be overrated implies that that collective rating is wrong, and that there exists a more accurate 'rating' (therefore denying the validity of the subjective 'rating' those who contributed to it's collective rating assigned it/claiming that their subjective enjoyment is wrong) - this therefore demonstrates that the person who uses the term believes their own enjoyment/assessment to be more valuable than that of those who disagree” so if you say something is overrated, you’re claiming the people who rate it highly are wrong. but if you say “this sucks” you’re not claiming that the people who think it’s great are wrong? why is that? you haven’t explained this, you just keep repeating “saying something is overrated implies people are wrong” and not explaining how any other “objective” statement such as “this sucks” is any different
rabidfish 10.24.22	'Overrated' is just the pussy's way of saying 'objectively crap' Eg.: BC;NR is overrated
Mort. 10.24.22	colton the time has passed
Colton 10.24.22	I just can’t see how people think that when someone calls something overrated they’re trying to say that other people are objectively wrong, without going out of your way to be as pedantic and petty as possible to intentionally misinterpret people and cause arguments. lord have mercy on the people you talk to irl if you really think that lol. some actual reddit neckbeard “uM aCtUallY” type shit
Colton 10.24.22	mort I just got off work this is not fair
Colton 10.24.22	johnny has awoken from the rage nap
Colton 10.24.22	he did what he could. god loves a tryer
Mort. 10.24.22	the time mr john nathan is time to work out my forearms and grip strength while watching hells kitchen in my room and then fall asleep for a productive day tomorrow of reading and studying the aqa philosophy syllabus so i can do some private tutoring and get dat rich surrey kid money from tory parents
Colton 10.24.22	also gonna go work out mort, gonna have what in my personal opinion will be a great workout and then what I personally believe to be a good meal after. gonna wake up tomorrow feeling what I perceive to be well rested. it's gonna be really exciting in my view
Colton 10.24.22	good lord i just scrolled up and saw the words "homophobia" and "arachnophobia" and scrolled back down immediately
Mort. 10.24.22	yes colton get hench become a chadly well muscled, well cultured aficianado of the modern day
Colton 10.24.22	i am already mega chadly jacked i am also the tallest man on earth
Colton 10.24.22	yo pizza listen to The Tallest Man On Earth
ramon. 10.24.22	some things never change huh damn lmfao
MetalMarcJK 10.24.22	Everyone is a poseur in one way or another.
GiaNXGX 10.24.22	Canonical conundrums are overrated. me probably
PitchforkArms 10.24.22	pretty good look into my psyche, thanks for exposing it... "pretending to like electronic music" - got over this one pretty quick
Egarran 10.24.22	>Canonical conundrums are overrated. Academic philosophy, right?
sixdegrees 10.25.22	#sputtalk
Snake. 10.25.22	i really like it when jking92 exultantly swings his balls around in everybody's face in the comment section of every list ranking on this site about how he's listened to like over 20 artists before and how his life of perpetually getting hazed by his college roommates to sample five minutes of the new call of duty game needs a john oliver-esque deep dive truly a special individual
Mort. 10.25.22	who the fuck is jking92
Snake. 10.25.22	very unimposing user whose self-proclaimed claim to fame on this site is not using a rating system because it makes him look quirky ecks dee
Colton 10.25.22	his rating system is still better than yours tbh
Snake. 10.25.22	if your only criteria for a good rating system is not 5ing spiderland then you're gonna have a bad time chief
Archelirion 10.25.22	Feeling pretty called out by 2 ngl pal
Manatea 10.25.22	Probably a dumb question but um… music is good, we can all at least agree on that right?
Archelirion 10.25.22	Fuck off is it
Archelirion 10.25.22	(I'm sorry that was a bit strong of me!! Music's okay, but have you ever heard running water through a poorly made piezo mic? Real shit)
ffs 10.25.22	surpressing my monkey brain to pretend music is real
Mort. 10.25.22	its just sounds bro lol literally just sounds you dont actually hear this thing you keep on calling 'rhythm' do you?
Demon of the Fall 10.25.22	'"I’ve edited some ancient comments to make conversations more interesting." - pizzamachine' lol I definitely do 3 sometimes, mostly because some grammar edge-lord 'non-ironically' shot me down in flames for using the wrong word once, guess it made me realise shit doesn't matter - that's probably not the reason I do it actually, hmm... yeah pretty sure I've never pretended to know any music I don't / pretended to like anything I don't... or any other such silliness
Demon of the Fall 10.25.22	guess I've mimicked posting styles occasionally, not sure it was intentional though also, meme-posting / using Sput-specific banter, when I have absolutely no idea about the origins, or what the hell people are talking about so yeah, I'm only real when it comes to the music!
garas 10.25.22	I like the tone of this list.