JohnnyoftheWell
06.03.19 | "The song to make me realise that, after quite liking 'Alligator', this band were actually something a lot more special"
Hard relate to this. That song definitely raised my opinion of the National to no end after kinda clicking with bits of Alligator. Really nice to see Lucky You this high too
Am in the nay-sayer camp on Vanderlyle unfortunately :[ It's like England would have been a perfect closer for HV and then they come in with this super concerted attempt at a weary farewell. Can't stand the lullaby overtones in the chorus and the lyrics are easily the weakest on the album imo |
Sowing
06.03.19 | Was this supposed to be top 100? I'm confused. |
JohnnyoftheWell
06.03.19 | Looks like he's adding the rest gradually |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | Sowing - if this was RYM it would be an instant 100 loaded together. As it's Sput I do it bit by bit as I've learnt to my cost many times before. |
Sinternet
06.03.19 | i already hate and disagree hard with this |
Sowing
06.03.19 | ah gotcha doof...I always copy/paste into a notepad so that way it's saved and I can still post my full list all at once...but this method works too
I'll toss this list a feature because I know you'll come through eventually. excited to see the completed list. |
Sinternet
06.03.19 | wow you never feature my lists sowing |
Demon of the Fall
06.03.19 | Slow Show is one of their very best (if not their best) so I'm going to conveniently ignore all the things I'll inevitably disagree with based on this one placement.
Good work anyway. I'll read the whole thing when it's done, I promise. |
Sowing
06.03.19 | @sint: shout me when you make a feature-worthy list, I'll get you |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | High Violet with the highest top 10 hit rate! That I can get behind. But these are all amazing ones so far of course, realistically they have about 50 songs I can see why anybody would put in a top 10.
I don’t know “Blank Slate”, the Virginia EP is the only gap I have in their discog I think, gotta give that a go. |
luci
06.03.19 | make it in reverse order, the build up keeps you reading |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | “ 'The Geese of Beverley Road' [5]
Not a perfect song”
FOH |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Ok gotta listen to “Exile Vilify” and “Think You Can Wait” again, I love those songs but I always forget about them and as a Doof double 5/5 single that’s pretty big. |
luci
06.03.19 | let's be honest, this list is another excuse to dunk on i am easy to find :p |
Josh D.
06.03.19 | You didn't even get the top three HV songs correct, we are fighting now |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Josh - every song on HV is a 5/5 so any ranking of that albums is correct. |
Sowing
06.03.19 | "make it in reverse order, the build up keeps you reading"
[2] |
luci
06.03.19 | I remember the widespread dissing of Lemonworld when HV came out, could never make sense of that. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | The National has more 5/5 songs than any other band, right? Right. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | luci - Lemon is maybe a bit too understated for lots of people to connect with it, at least initially. That and “Runaway” are a perfect understated duo on HV after the much more intense first half, they set up the closing trio so perfectly. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | SVE’s vocal spot on “Think You Can Wait” is better than any of the femvox sections on IAETF. She’s a better voice than any of the other women they had on that album, why they only used her for that silly spoken word section on “The Pull Of You” baffles me. |
Rowan5215
06.03.19 | Lemonworld is the best Matt lyrics tbh
definitely another dunk excuse but eh, his top 10 is about half correct, could be worse honestly |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | It’s a dunk excuse but this is also the perfect time to do this, they’ve finally hit 100 album tracks. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | “this is when you really can make a case for The National being an indie rock band in the same mould as Interpol, etc”
Considering the drum line in that tune is lifted from Interpol, yeah I think so lol. |
Josh D.
06.03.19 | I don't even worry much about their lyrics, I think about stuff like the slow build of dynamics in songs like Bloodbuzz and Carin, which is why I rate those types of songs so highly. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Oh Doof, Bloodbuzz not a 5/5??? That’s damn near their signature song. |
Rowan5215
06.03.19 | I love how this is mostly a chill subdued thread and then sowing just btfo'd sinternet lmao |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Don’t Swallow intro might be my favorite National tune intro, such a great atmosphere. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Alright, we're starting to diverge a bit...these 4/5 tunes so far are mostly 4.5/5s for me and most of those 4.5/5s I rate 5/5; guess I'm just a bit more forgiving with these guys, the difference between 4/5 and 4.5/5 is often very subtle or 4.5/5 and 5/5, all it needs is a tiny bit of magic but these boys bring that magic almost every time. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Hm, as between System and Day I Die, I actually prefer Day as a stadium rock song, I love Stadium, the instrumental is superb but its lyrics and meldoy don't quite land for me, a weak Matt song, Day works perfectly for how it bursts in out of the subdued intro of Nobody Else and the guitar has a wonderful starry nature, it's when SWB fully arrives for me even if it's a tad bit of a trad Natty song. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | “Dark Side of the Gym” is my first big disagree, I think that’s a completely perfect, essential Natty tune - “Slow Show” is my number one too but Gym will be my wedding song personally. |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | Think I missed one or two - didn't seem to add up...but this is about it. Been revisiting the back catalogue a load the last few weeks. |
luci
06.03.19 | how many songs were eligible for this? curious |
JohnnyoftheWell
06.03.19 | The only one that stings badly so far is I'll Still Destroy You. Wish you'd dumped on I Need My Girl harder, that one's always struck me as v mediocre for reasons you seem to get |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Luci, the band now has 101 full album tracks, and I'd estimate there are somewhere around 30-40 other songs among EPs, bonus tracks, proper B-sides, one-off singles, and compilation contributions, Doof seems to have pulled from them all. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Although perhaps their several Bob's Burgers songs were not considered, lol |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | luci - any National song was eligible. I think I missed one because on the playlist I have it said 100 and then this was 99...maybe one got deleted :/
Think of this as 90% in my perfect order. |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | '“Dark Side of the Gym” is my first big disagree, I think that’s a completely perfect, essential Natty tune - “Slow Show” is my number one too but Gym will be my wedding song personally.'
She's more lucky than she even knows yet, classic :D |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | Not as many massive disagreements as I was expecting... |
Sinternet
06.03.19 | so many bad takes here doof |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | What are your top 5 National songs Sint? |
StarlessCore
06.03.19 | garbage
how you put trash like lemonworld above classics on alligator smh |
JohnnyoftheWell
06.03.19 | Lemonworld > all but 4 songs on Alligator tbh |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Johnny knows |
StarlessCore
06.03.19 | nah trash af |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Compelling argument you’ve made there |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | I do find the love of a clearly transitional and unrepresentative album like Alligator a bit strange - it makes me feel certain people would love The National to be a different band. Sort of 'The Bends' syndrome.
'Abel', 'Lit Up' and 'Mr November' are just indie rock songs to file along efforts by Arcade Fire and Interpol etc etc, they don't blow me away.
I prefer what The National became by a long long margin. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Doof - I think what you explain is why a lot of people who really love Alligator don’t vibe with the later stuff as much. For me though it doesn’t sound like a transitional album, it was an arrival that they would continue to expand upon for the next few releases but it feels like a very thoroughly assured release for me. |
Papa Universe
06.03.19 | I was expecting songs about a peoples' sovereignty.
Disappointment. |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | Boney, with 'Alligator' I think the production is a bit 'weak' - they haven't worked out just how much of a weapon the drums could be for them.
Matt hasn't sharpened up his focus yet, he's a bit sloppy in delivery and lyrics - ok, there are maybe more lyrics than on any other National release....but some of them are too try hard, mannered, jarring or just plain duff on the album imo
It probably has near as many great lines...but the quantity means it also has the most clunkers. Again, imo, other people love your 'won't let the psychos around' and 'pissing in the sink's but these lines snap me out too much - where a song like Lemonworld is a lyrical miracle, absolute perfection in terms of how they sound/read/resonate.
The song writing quality is variable from song to song - but even more critical, it varies a lot for me within the songs. A bit like the quality of the lyrics going up and down leads to clunkers standing out I find the quality of different parts of a song varying so much also makes 'less good' parts really jump out. |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | To me Alli is transitional because Val Jester, All the Wine, Abel and a few others sound close to Sad Songs while other stuff is more 'proto Boxer' (Geese, Mr November, Secret Meeting). |
Demon of the Fall
06.03.19 | I can’t believe you just compared Alligator to The Bends, eww. Radiohead went on to greater things and as much as Alligator isn’t really The National’s signature sound (now), they nailed it regardless. Nice list though, I appreciate the work that must’ve gone into this. |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | The Bends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alligator
For me. The inclusion of Street Spirit, Fake Plastic Trees and Just alone make it a superior album.
But as ever I respect the opinion of a Demon. |
JohnnyoftheWell
06.03.19 | Both are hard 3.5s and the comparison is generally apt |
Demon of the Fall
06.03.19 | It was an apt enough comparison if we ignore the quality of the albums in question, that I will admit. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Both are 5s and the comparison is generally apt
Alligator over Bends for me though. |
Demon of the Fall
06.03.19 | The Bends is down to a 3/5 for me, seems a little harsh for an album containing ‘Fake Plastic Trees’ & ‘Street Spirit’... I may reconsider, if only for nostalgic reasons. |
Demon of the Fall
06.03.19 | Any advance on top 5 for ‘Runaway’? The consensus seems a lot lower. |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | I really like Planet Telex and Bullet Proof - The Bends is a very nostalgic album to me, and the only Radiohead you can really play out the window on a summer day.
Pleased 'Runaway' made my top 40 but not too surprised it didn't make my top 30 - I think a lot of people prefer the 1st half of HV because of the slow pace of 'Runaway' but I'm definitely into the 2nd half of that album over the first. |
StarlessCore
06.03.19 | 21 is best |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | best on Alligator agreed ;P |
NordicMindset
06.03.19 | top 2 is top 2 agreed |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | Nice GB |
JS19
06.03.19 | Humiliation has always been my favourite TN song and probably always will be good list |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | JS have you ever seen footage of them playing it live? Sometimes they beef that song up live - I thought it was even better when I heard it performed live. |
BigHans
06.03.19 | Massive list, well done. |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | thanks Hans |
Pheromone
06.03.19 | 1 is defo 1 for me too. About Today is probably 2, 's gorgeous. |
DoofDoof
06.03.19 | 'About Today' I switched with 'Lucky You' last minute...it was very close to the top 10 |
hadeserbonfa
06.03.19 | Though I disagree with quite a few,the love shown for "Brainy", "Humiliation" and "Vardelyle" makes up for it. Great list. |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | “About Today” is perfect in its simplicity, “Lucky You” is a similar vibe but a bit more “full” I guess and it’s a tad better for it. |
JS19
06.03.19 | I have never heard the live footage but I'll check it out and also hope they play it when I see them for the first time in a few months! |
theBoneyKing
06.03.19 | Anyone else confused how the spelling and pronunciation of his wife’s name changed between 2005 and 2017? |
Slex
06.03.19 | Glad to see Exile Vilify so high, their best B-side imo |
Sunnyvale
06.03.19 | Awesome list, I'd move a lot of these around but no complaints |
Lucman
06.04.19 | Amazing list doof. |
DoofDoof
06.04.19 | Thanks Sunny, Luc |
tommygun
06.04.19 | great list doof
they really are one of the GOAT bands with 40+ perfect songs such that any order is correct based on personal experience
slow show first dance must have been *mwah* |
DoofDoof
06.04.19 | Cheers Tommy, song has swears in but I insisted we picked a song that actually had some emotional history for us.
Better luck next time Ed Sheeran |
tommygun
06.04.19 | Think you would have got away with it matey, easy to miss em in that song unless you know they're coming :D |
TwigTW
06.04.19 | Nice to see 'Nobody Else Will Be There' in a good spot, probably my favorite from that album... Looking at your top choices makes me think I should finally give Boxer a spin. |
DoofDoof
06.04.19 | Twig you haven't tried Boxer yet? Fo' shame |
theBoneyKing
06.04.19 | I love Nobody Else, but I think it’s actually my second least favorite on SWB, ahead only of “Turtleneck” |
luci
06.04.19 | I only love Nobody Else on SWB |
TwigTW
06.04.19 | "you haven't tried Boxer yet?"
I know, right? Always forward--never reverse, has it's drawbacks as a music listening philosophy... Listening to Boxer now and it sounds great, of course.
|
Pangea
06.04.19 | decent ranking. 1 is 1 yeah |
BigHans
06.04.19 | The first National song I ever loved is All the Wine, that one is probably my fave to this day. Hard to pick from so many classics. For me, England, Start a War, Apartment Story and Bloodbuzz definitely need to be in the top 10. |
Gyromania
06.04.19 | Epic lol at calling guest room a generic song on boxer. It's far better than most of the stuff you put ahead of it |
DoofDoof
06.04.19 | I really listened to that one closely when putting the list together but still my least favourite on the album unfortunately.
Still good though, shows the strength of Boxer |
BigHans
06.04.19 | Doof your description for Available inspired me to jam Afghan Whigs all day |
theBoneyKing
06.04.19 | Guest Room is a 5, “We can’t stay here / We’re starting to stay the same” is perhaps Boxer’s most important lyric, its thesis statement. |
Gyromania
06.04.19 | this list is fucking garbage |
Gyromania
06.04.19 | lol i'm jk. this must have taken a crazy long time to construct. kudos. but for real idk how you can put songs like guest room, all the wine, sea of love, so far so fast, etc so low. those are easily some of their best songs |
Gyromania
06.04.19 | also hairpin turns being nearly dead last ugh. far better than 90% of that snoozefest of an album that came before it. swb (title track) is mumblecore nonsense |
BigHans
06.04.19 | The only song I can stand to hear anymore on SWB is Day I Die |
klap
06.04.19 | God damn day I die is terrible |
AmericanFlagAsh
06.04.19 | Rylan and Where Is Her Head are top 20 |
luci
06.04.19 | val jester is the snooziest song on alligator |
DoofDoof
06.04.19 | 'swb (title track) is mumblecore nonsense'
listen again ;D
I actually wanted an entire album of that style lol |
DoofDoof
06.04.19 | luci I’ll take one snoozy tune when a lot of the rest is patchy
VJ is right in the middle quality wise on Alli |
theBoneyKing
06.04.19 | Val Jester is a total stunner y’all wack |
fogza
06.06.19 | "I do find the love of a clearly transitional and unrepresentative album like Alligator a bit strange - it makes me feel certain people would love The National to be a different band. Sort of 'The Bends' syndrome.
'Abel', 'Lit Up' and 'Mr November' are just indie rock songs to file along efforts by Arcade Fire and Interpol etc etc, they don't blow me away."
"
Weird. For me, Alligator is a stone cold classic. There isn't a bad song on the album, and several transcendent ones. Mr November is bursting with swing and grace - I didn't feel any of the 'big' indie bands at the time could put together a song with such absolute personality, although they all had other strengths. The lyrics / delivery pairing on this record are amazing, if I listen to Alligator while I'm doing something, I'm unable to ignore it. There are too many funny, embarrassing or just beautiful moments. |
fogza
06.06.19 | And Tall Saint didn't make the cut. I'm officially sad. |
DoofDoof
06.06.19 | From my ratings you can see I agree there isn’t a bad song on Alligator - but half of it is only ‘good’ and nowhere near their best |
DoofDoof
06.06.19 | It was my first National and I felt at the time ‘oh so there’s this verbose band a bit like Tindersticks mixed with Interpol’ but for the most part I just went back to my Tindersticks albums. I thought it was good but no life changer.
Boxer was a life changer. |
fogza
06.06.19 | It's interesting to see what different people take from music, and how they hear it. I think I like the storytelling aspect - when I listen to Alligator I see characters and people and places, with the new stuff it's often just blurs and smudges. I think it's interesting that you say you prefer the mystery, I suppose that's the difference. |
DoofDoof
06.06.19 | I think there’s quite a lot of mystery to Alligator, my point in the list was more that Sad Songs was more straight shootin lyrically.
I might have been better off starting with HV and working back - might have appreciated Alli more.
But I have to remember when it first came out my honest impression was that they weren’t likely candidates to become my favourite band of the next ten years. I return to it and I still get that same feeling they hadn’t worked out what they were about quite yet. |
theBoneyKing
06.06.19 | I will say I tend to agree with most of your Alligator ranking, at least if you take it “tier-wise”, I just happen to rate most of the songs higher. Though Astronauts is one of my favorites, always had a soft spot for that one. |
fogza
06.06.19 | Yeah, boxer was my first listen, and I thought they do this smooth, atmospheric organic thing so brilliantly, and then I listened to Alligator and thought "wow they do this great American novel thing well too". |
DoofDoof
06.06.19 | Craig Finn has become ten times as good at doing the American novel thing now - check his latest album if you haven't |
fogza
06.06.19 | Ok, never heard of him, will give it a try |
theBoneyKing
06.06.19 | What I really love about Alligator-Boxer-High Violet as a trilogy is they represent a progression of life stages, I see those three as almost concept albums: Alligator is about the early-mid 20s, feeling like you own the world but also realizing how small you are within it; Boxer is late 20s/early 30s realizing you’ve moved into maturity and trying to cling onto what’s left of your youth; High Violet is dealing with daily life after you’ve properly settled down and the stagnancy/depression that comes with that, also struggles in a committed relationship. |
DoofDoof
06.06.19 | He was the lead singer/song writer with The Hold Steady but his last two albums have really doubled down on his storytelling - his songs are very much like short stories at this stage of his career. |
fogza
06.06.19 | Totally boney, I'm hoping 12 seconds after my next birthday, everything will click and I'll like all the new records. |
Icebloom
06.06.19 | Really nice list! Agreeing a lot with your rankings and remarks, especially on Abel and Sea of Love. Would place some Alligator tracks higher at the cost of some High Violet tracks, but not much to complain about. Good to see Brainy, Slipped and Humiliation high on the list. |
DoofDoof
06.06.19 | Thanks, I like both of 'Abel' and 'Sea of Love' but it's good to know I'm not the only one who doesn't feel they come off 100% convincing. |