iSkane
10.31.12 | Brobama 2012 |
Aids
10.31.12 | i think the election is gonna come down to one state (probably Florida) like in 2000 |
iSkane
10.31.12 | Yeah, living in CO. Gotta love those swing states. |
Ignimbrite
10.31.12 | The first election I'm old enough to vote for and the two realistic choices are both utter dreck. Yeah democracy |
Dunpeal
10.31.12 | neither is gonna do shit to create jobs as neither has the balls to stand up to big business |
StagnantWords
10.31.12 | Polls show Obama ahead in every swing state besides NC. So it's over. |
KSK1
10.31.12 | 22 years old and still not registered. I'd rather be able to say I had no part in putting whichever shit head gets elected into office. |
JackSparrow
10.31.12 | The polls change basically every hour. What it comes down to is who will say something more stupid and lose people's confidence in the next few days |
TheSupernatural
10.31.12 | Voting for Gary Johnson for president in my first election. I live in California, so only local votes really matter. |
Kris.
10.31.12 | really cool story bro! |
Cygnatti
10.31.12 | I love being in a swing state
mostly because our state used to be republican as fuck but no more!@ |
bungy
10.31.12 | definitely voting for Obama as it is my best shot to live the american dream of living off of the government and successful people |
Lakes
10.31.12 | 30 months of consecutive job growth, yep you're right guys obama hasn't done shit to create jobs |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | It is pretty funny how he claims 5.2M new jobs, when really its 250K. |
taxidermist
10.31.12 | Chick came today asking me to vote on some prop. She had MASSIVE tits and it was hard not to look. Almost felt like asking her to flash me in order for my vote. |
Spec
10.31.12 | http://a1.img.mobypicture.com/0d3e2f3778dd556f167bf1d0a9076fc3_view.jpg |
Lakes
10.31.12 | oh wait i forgot its fashionable to be independent and talk about how much i hate everyone in politics, carry on |
Lakes
10.31.12 | "It is pretty funny how he claims 5.2M new jobs, when really its 250K."
reference???? |
Ignimbrite
10.31.12 | "oh wait i forgot its fashionable to be independent and talk about how much i hate everyone in politics, carry on"
Bro, I have no problem with politics in general. The issue here is that both candidates this cycle are, in fact, shitheads. |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | @Lakes, every news source in the solar system. Just search it. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | does fox news qualify as "every news source in the solar system" now? |
Lakes
10.31.12 | because i just googled that and found nothing. |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | if you disagree with lakes you must be a republican |
Lakes
10.31.12 | unemployment has been steadily going down for three years now, so don't tell me that obama hasn't done
shit for the economy. that's bullshit. |
Ignimbrite
10.31.12 | Obama certainly played a role, but it would be foolish to say that all of that is his doing. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | seriously, if you think obama hasn't done anything for the economy, just go ask ohio. 1 in 5 jobs in
ohio are in the auto industry, which was dying when obama got into office. now the unemployment rate
there is below most of the country |
Lakes
10.31.12 | "Obama certainly played a role, but it would be foolish to say that all of that is his doing."
you can say this about every president ever because the united states isn't a dictatorship. |
bungy
10.31.12 | don't believe you i'm gonna go ask ohio right now |
Lakes
10.31.12 | haha |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | the gdp is still shit however |
Lakes
10.31.12 | we're in recovery tho and have been for a while |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | exactly, at the rate it is rising foreshadows a dead cat bounce |
Lakes
10.31.12 | |
tombits
10.31.12 | obama is black, cool and used to smoke weed
if i was american he'd get my vote |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | @lakes what lol? |
Lakes
10.31.12 | whats a dead cat bounce |
sixdegrees
10.31.12 | I bet obama can drop some dope ass rhymes. |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | I don't watch FOX you dumb bitch. But anyway, since you somehow can't figure out how to function the complex google machine?...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-27/payroll-revisions-signal-economy-has-created-jobs-under-obama.html
Net gain: 125K
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/03/politics/fact-check-jobs-economy/index.html
Net gain: 125K
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/fact-check-4-5-million-jobs-created-under-175621036--election.html
Net gain: 300K
http://factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-economic-sleight-of-hand/
Net gain: 55K private sector growth, but a total loss of 552K due to decline in government jobs
....those are just the first few that popped up. I couldn't find a single source that had Obama at more than 3.6M which is still a solid million less than he's claiming. It's fact Obama hasn't been a successful job-creator. Aside from the stimulus spending which prevented layoffs; and he did it by going deeper in debt.
|
Dev518
10.31.12 | How has Obama created jobs exactly? |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | "seriously, if you think obama hasn't done anything for the economy, just go ask ohio. 1 in 5 jobs in ohio are in the auto industry"
And now our national debt is at 17 trillion. Point? And actually I'm pretty sure it was 1 in 8 in Ohio. |
HitlerIsTheBest
10.31.12 | i find politics somewhat interesting, but it always comes back to "fuck america, i dont give a shit about this country." |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | oh thought you would know what that meant hm it's also known as a double-dip recession...when the economy grows so slowley after a recession that it falls back in to one ring any bells? sorry econ major here odd terminolgy is rife within my course. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | you can't expect to fix an economy without spending some first. HERP DERP. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | are there any signs of that happening other than your own speculation fourthreich? |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | The only sources I could find supporting Obama in regard to job growth was like the New York Times which is about as left wing as you can get haha. And even then they were playing the blame game on Bush more than anything. |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | the government does not fix the economy the fed tries to |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | "you can't expect to fix an economy without spending some first. HERP DERP."
Key word "some." Doubling the debt in 4 years....that's not some. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | "And even then they were playing the blame game on Bush more than anything."
because obama didn't cause the recession. the stock market took a major dip in september 2008 and went way downhill from there. and most economists pinpoint the start of the global recession in december 2007. |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | "are there any signs of that happening other than your own speculation fourthreich?"yes the current rate that the gdp is growing is 1.7% it needs to be a little over 3%. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | bush nearly doubled the debt as well. |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | Point is what Lake? Everyone acknowledges Obama inherited a bad situation. I thought the discussion was how he's done at creating jobs (which you apparently think he's been successful; contrary to nearly every news source in existence). |
HitlerIsTheBest
10.31.12 | most of those jobs he created are minimum wage and low paying jobs. |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | Bush nearly doubled the debt in TWO terms. Obama did it in ONE. What is so difficult for you to comprehend? Bush was bad. Obama is a catastrophe. Plus Obama doubled the debt when it was higher, which means he had to add significantly more debt than Bush in order to double it. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | "most of those jobs he created are minimum wage and low paying jobs."
creating minimum wage jobs is still better than shipping them off to china. unless you think americans are "deserving" of better. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2012/1005/Presidential-debate-101-Did-Obama-really-double-the-deficit |
Dev518
10.31.12 | "you can't expect to fix an economy without spending some first. HERP DERP."
The State could just keep their hands off. Markets have a well understood way of correcting themselves. See the Depression of 1920 which was perhaps the only depression in which the government actually cut spending and stayed hands off. |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | the fed creates a lot of the jobs you guys are wrongly attributing to obama, by implementing expansionary monetary policy to lower interest rates causing consumers to buy more and in turn increasing demand and lowering invetories and thus causing the need to hire more workers |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | Considering the fact that minimum-wage earners made more on unemployment, it's not that big of an improvement since these people are still going to require significant government aid. Like Hitleristhebest said, creating low skill jobs is hardly anything to brag about. And plus he's hardly even made any of those. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | it doesn't help that a lot of the market regulations FDR signed into law were repealed over the years. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/07/politics/fact-check-manufacturing/index.html |
HitlerIsTheBest
10.31.12 | no, they dont deverve better, i stated a fact. its just another reason why its obvious he didnt do that well. |
Spec
10.31.12 | Lol spec is so funny I love him. |
Spec
10.31.12 | Oops wrong account. |
FromDaHood
10.31.12 | Living in Michigan I feel comfortable voting for a third party because it's always blue |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | Lakes "http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2012/1005/Presidential-debate-101-Did-Obama-really-double-the-deficit"
lol deficit and national debt are not the same thing. We have $17trillion dollars debt currently. That article is discussing specifically last years spending. Our national debt HAS doubled under Obama.
Bro learn your shit before you're gonna debate with people and act like they're the dumb ones. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | i'm aware. |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | So you think it's a major accomplishment of Obama's that we're now only overspending by $1.1trillion every year instead of $1.4trillion previously? LOL |
Lakes
10.31.12 | look, i don't think obama is the savior of this country and i certainly can't say that i can outdebate
someone who has college education in economics or whatever. i'm a high school student. but i still
think it's fairly obvious that obama will at least do a better job managing this country than romney. |
Dev518
10.31.12 | " creating minimum wage jobs is still better than shipping them off to china. unless you think americans are "deserving" of better."
Actually, we are all better off when jobs go where there is the greatest comparative advantage (ie. lowest opportunity cost). If a certain industry has the greatest comparative advantage in China, then that industry can produce products cheaper for the rest of the world. While there will be a short period of unemployment in the nation that lost the industry to China, human wants are infinite so there will always be a demand for other jobs in which that nation has the greater comparative advantage. |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | "but i still think it's fairly obvious that obama will at least do a better job managing this country this romney."
ugh....yeah very clear based upon the last 4 years. Very clear. |
Lakes
10.31.12 | http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/31/interactive-make-mitt-romneys-tax-plan-add-up/ |
someguest
10.31.12 | Candidates always make up a tax plan that never happens. Why is Romney's such a big deal? |
Lakes
10.31.12 | you do realize masachusetts was 47th in job creation when romney was governor? |
KjSwantko
10.31.12 | @Dev, agreed it's interesting. |
FourthReich
10.31.12 | i certainly can't say that i can outdebate someone who has college education in economics or whatever.
it takes a lot to admit that man i respect that and i wish more people you age took as much interest as you do in politics. however politics are idiotic the only thing that is worth arguing in this election is in fact positive economics. |
someguest
11.01.12 | "you do realize masachusetts was 47th in job creation when romney was governor?"
You do understand how much actual work a figurehead does, right? |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | Lakes, The part you mistakenly assumed is that I am a Romney supporter. I think he's awful too. However, it logically makes more sense to vote for a guy who's probably going to suck but has a small chance he might do well, then vote again for a guy we already know sucks and is going to continue to suck. |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | "Actually, we are all better off when jobs go where there is the greatest comparative advantage (ie. lowest opportunity cost)."
haha you don't say?? |
someguest
11.01.12 | Yeah. Basically when goods are made or services are provided at their cheapest available levels, it opens up more opportunity to do other shit. You shouldn't want to make plastic bowels for $20 an hour when you can make them at the same quality for $5 an hour and free up labor and resources to do other shit. |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | In theory that's true but not in current day reality for America. If we lose more manufacturers it'd cripple us. |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | @someguest lol i know that was complete sarcasm |
someguest
11.01.12 | If half of liberals took economics classes, and if half of republicans took anthropology classes, maybe this country wouldn't be so fucking useless right now. But, alas. |
Dev518
11.01.12 | You guys do realize that you're just arguing about two sides of the same coin right? What is really going to change if we have Obama or Romney as president? They are both in bed with big business, they both love war, and neither cares about our rights. They only difference is that Romney says that he doesn't like government healthcare, although I think that it is quite clear that he is lying in order to gain support for his base and it's highly unlikely that he will actually repeal it. If Obama had actually kept his campaign promises to stop DEA raids for marijuana, to close Gitmo, of ushering in a new age of transparency etc. I would be slightly more enthusiastic for him and Romney certainly isn't going to do those things. |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | That kind of thinking is pertaining to more moving state to state and us competing with ourselves; not the U.S. competing with China. Manufacturers moving to China for lower opportunity cost wouldn't help the U.S. in any realistic way. |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | If half of liberals took economics classes, and if half of republicans took anthropology classes, maybe this country wouldn't be so fucking useless right now. But, alas.
haha this is funny |
someguest
11.01.12 | Oh yeah? How about the millions with iPhones in their pockets? |
Maniac!
11.01.12 | Election in 2012:
Black Mitt Romney vs Mitt Romney
Have fun arguing about who will do a better job, when all Obama want to do is look like a moderate republican |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | @Dev, whole-heartedly agree. With everything previously said, I'm not casting a vote for either next week. |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | "Oh yeah? How about the millions with iPhones in their pockets?"
At the cost of $8K average credit card debt per home to buy absurdly overpriced technology that none of us need. |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | what about all of those who drive toyota and other foreign brands who complain about the debt or the fact that jobs are being sent over seas? that shit is unfortunately hilarious. |
Maniac!
11.01.12 | Too bad Republican and Conservative aren't synonymous |
someguest
11.01.12 | Phones are opportunity. It's communication. Good communication is arguably the most important aspect of a strong business. Cheaper manufacturing allows more people to buy phones, and create more opportunities. Risks are minimal. |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | "what about all of those who drive toyota and other foreign brands who complain about the debt or the fact that jobs are being sent over seas? that shit is unfortunately hilarious."
lol pretty true |
someguest
11.01.12 | "what about all of those who drive toyota and other foreign brands who complain about the debt or the fact that jobs are being sent over seas? that shit is unfortunately hilarious."
well actually a lot of those 'foreign brands' manufacture in America just as much as the 'domestic brands', and usually their foreign sources of parts are similar as well. the whole domestic automotive industry is a fucking joke. it's a global market. |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | "Phones are opportunity. It's communication. Good communication is arguably the most important aspect of a strong business. Cheaper manufacturing allows more people to buy phones, and create more opportunities. Risks are minimal."
Dude you're talking about stuff that's totally irrelevent. The fact that Apple is making them cheaper doesn't change the fact they're still charging a bazillion% markup. Also, you don't an Iphone for good communication. Can't a basic flip phone even allow the user to speak, send texts, pics, etc at approximately the same speed? |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | lol I can't believe you're trying to argue that companies moving elsewhere for lower opportunity cost actually benefits America. |
someguest
11.01.12 | "Dude you're talking about stuff that's totally irrelevent. The fact that Apple is making them cheaper doesn't change the fact they're still charging a bazillion% markup. Also, you don't an Iphone for good communication. Can't a basic flip phone even allow the user to speak, send texts, pics, etc at approximately the same speed?"
Technology creates growth. Of course there's a mark up. But people are moving forward. All this "useless technology" has created a lot of companies that make applications and plug-ins. You know, more jobs. |
toxin.
11.01.12 | "well actually a lot of those 'foreign brands' manufacture in America just as much as the 'domestic brands', and usually their foreign sources of parts are similar as well. the whole domestic automotive industry is a fucking joke. it's a global market."
thank you for making this point |
FromDaHood
11.01.12 | If iPads were made in America they would retail for $12,000. Not directly relevant but w/e. |
toxin.
11.01.12 | someguest2012 |
Dev518
11.01.12 | "In theory that's true but not in current day reality for America. If we lose more manufacturers it'd cripple us. "
The types of jobs aren't important. What matters is that each nation has the jobs in which they have the greatest comparative advantage. If that is the case then we are all more prosperous. Most people find basic economics incredibly boring and don't understand the concepts well. That's how so many politicians have run on basic economic fallacies over the years. Almost no economist supports tariffs, but it seems that Mitt Romney wants to start a trade war with China. Most conservative hate China far more than they understand economics.
To make it clear the majority of jobs are already where they have the greatest comparative advantage, but whenever there is a shift from one nation to another is when you hear talks of protectionism. Look at the U.S. Many manufacturing jobs have been lost but we have gained many high paying service and technology jobs. In the end we have better jobs and cheaper products. |
someguest
11.01.12 | "If iPads were made in America they would retail for $12,000. Not directly relevant but w/e."
pretty much. |
someguest
11.01.12 | "To make it clear the majority of jobs are already where they have the greatest comparative advantage, but whenever there is a shift from one nation to another is when you hear talks of protectionism."
Best thing I've read in here so far. |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | "If iPads were made in America they would retail for $12,000. Not directly relevant but w/e."
Totally disagree. If Apple was produced in America they simply never would've become the most valuable stock. |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | "well actually a lot of those 'foreign brands' manufacture in America just as much as the 'domestic brands', and usually their foreign sources of parts are similar as well. the whole domestic automotive industry is a fucking joke. it's a global market."
this much i know as toyotas are manufactured in ohio??idk, it was an analogy in attempt to show that those who buy foreign made goods not created within our boarders and complain about the debt and jobs going over seas are silly. why? because it does absolutely nothing to stimulate our gdp. but yes i am sorry for listing toyota as it is counted in our gdp.. |
someguest
11.01.12 | If you want to get technical, you can thank oil prices for more manufacturing jobs here in America. They've become so high that it's cheaper for foreign companies to manufacture here instead of doing it in their home country and shipping the final products.
BUT HIGH GAS PRICES KILLED THE AUTO INDUSTRY GUYS!!!1 |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | Even if foreign car companies for example are manufacturing in America the profits are still going to the company that is based in another country. Why not buy a vehicle that is made in America for a company that is based in America? I mean there is a distinction. |
KjSwantko
11.01.12 | "BUT HIGH GAS PRICES KILLED THE AUTO INDUSTRY GUYS!!!1"
Actually when people say that they're referring to the mid '70s when OPEC and the regulation of gas prices essentially did kill the American auto industry. |
someguest
11.01.12 | There's a ton of middlemen in the process. And it's more direct competition, which increases quality. And they still pay taxes. |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | dev518 , exactly where is your texas instrument calculator made?? not in texas only the logarithms are created there by mathematicians who are paid greatly. the calc itself is produced in china because america does not want its workers to have to assemble calculators, a very easy low paying, low skill job. thus the point @Kj was making about the creation of low paying jobs in america is very true. |
someguest
11.01.12 | "Actually when people say that they're referring to the mid '70s when OPEC and the regulation of gas prices essentially did kill the American auto industry."
that's when the foreign companies started moving in |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | "Even if foreign car companies for example are manufacturing in America the profits are still going to the company that is based in another country."
yes and no it creates jobs and we get money by taxing the country for outsourcing. |
peaks40
11.01.12 | guess what guys, almost every fucking problem in the world is solved with less of a population. yeah. think about it. |
someguest
11.01.12 | But yeah, I live in Michigan where manufacturing is (was) big. And I see bumper stickers with stuff like "Out Of A Job Yet? Keep Buying Foreign." It's really ignorant shit. Jobs don't often get lost, they just change. And that's where people resist. They don't want to re-train and learn something new. Then they wonder why they can't find a job. Being flexible is the key. |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | it's called structural unemployment |
someguest
11.01.12 | I'm keeping it simple for those of us who haven't taken intermediate macroeconomics. |
Satellite
11.01.12 | there are so many fucking billboards like that in and around saginaw. can't wait until i can drive to work without being told to "vote pro-choice."
also lol at anyone in michigan who thinks romney has a chance of winning the state. |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | i have a feeling those of us speaking in the thread are not novices haha and i was only saying that because is it not a natural type of unemployemnt? |
someguest
11.01.12 | Yeah, Obama's got Michigan in the bag.
And Satellite knows this too: there's a ton of open jobs in Michigan. The problem? They can't be filled. People aren't qualified for them. Half of the people here don't want to do shit beyond an assembly line, and it's not because they can't either. A lot of it is laziness. |
peaks40
11.01.12 | yep, people are fuckin lazy |
Dev518
11.01.12 | It's pretty simple. The majority of people in this nation are fairly highly trained, and in order to lure them away from high paying jobs (such as developing an iPad) to generally lower paying manufacturing jobs (such as working on an iPad assembly live) you would have to greatly increase their wages. In order to gain manufacturing jobs we have to give up other more skilled jobs.
In China there are far less skilled workers, so there is little opportunity for them to do much besides farm or work on an assembly line. In order to gain a manufacturing job in China you have to give up a job as a farmer.
In order to gain a manufacturing job in the U.S. you have to give up a skilled position. Manufacturing has a much greater comparative advantage in China where the Chinese are giving up very little, and are therefore willing to do these jobs much cheaper. We get cheaper iPads, and more technology and service jobs in the U.S. while the Chinese economy is no longer based on subsistence farming. |
Satellite
11.01.12 | and it seems like people in michigan who ARE qualified leave pretty quickly |
someguest
11.01.12 | Wait Dev, are you saying we don't need a billion individual rice farms?
Lol. 123 Sat. They're fleeing the deadbeats. |
Satellite
11.01.12 | **** i meant "vote pro-life" duh *** |
FourthReich
11.01.12 | thought so @sat |
someguest
11.01.12 | I had the pro-life argument with family. You can't change the mind of a Bible banger, no matter how logical you are. |
Satellite
11.01.12 | yeah abortion is just one of those things that's not even worth debating about |
someguest
11.01.12 | They told me they can't vote for Obama because he's a "baby killer". Shit, I didn't know he was a doctor! |
Dev518
11.01.12 | "Even if foreign car companies for example are manufacturing in America the profits are still going to the company that is based in another country. Why not buy a vehicle that is made in America for a company that is based in America? I mean there is a distinction."
What does it matter where the profits go? American workers still get paid for there jobs, while the majority of the profits will be reinvested in the company perhaps leading to more of this type of job in America. Some will be payed as dividends to shareholders all over the world, that will in turn buy goods made all over the world. |
Satellite
11.01.12 | a girl at work told me she wants to have my baby. i told her she better find a jar to store it in. heyo. |
Satellite
11.01.12 | (that's not a joke, that actually happened fyi) |
Dev518
11.01.12 | I can't believe that I laughed at that |
toxin.
11.01.12 | lol |
peaks40
11.01.12 | is she hot? |
someguest
11.01.12 | My Life as a Satellite: A Denny's Romance |
Satellite
11.01.12 | 8/10 |
Satellite
11.01.12 | haha dude it's ridiculous |
peaks40
11.01.12 | solid, but some eights are on the borderline, felt that experience before |
someguest
11.01.12 | haha gotta watch out for those restaurant girls |
peaks40
11.01.12 | whatever. if ya feel attracted to her i'd do it |
Dev518
11.01.12 | It depends on the scale. To me an 8 is great so she would be pretty hot. |
someguest
11.01.12 | The problem is if you knock her up you're stuck. If you have any conscience, that is. |
peaks40
11.01.12 | 8 is great, but some 8's are like 7.8 cause of little errors, like being shallow as i am, i know a friend of mine she's like an eight, but disproportional, she has huge tits but skinnier body |
someguest
11.01.12 | SHE HAS A GLOWING PERSONALITY
Yeah, her tits are rad, bro. |
Dev518
11.01.12 | I mean, a 7 is till good then right? Of course we are starting to get into the territory where personality really starts to matter though. (shallow I know) |
peaks40
11.01.12 | im an idiot anyways i look for 12's and wonder why im alone |
someguest
11.01.12 | 5/10 is good enough most nights.
Lol. |
peaks40
11.01.12 | see i can't stoop that low, it'll just make me feel worse |
someguest
11.01.12 | We went from manufacturing and jobs to fucking the broads.
This is why unemployment is so high. |
peaks40
11.01.12 | everybody wants the vag |
peaks40
11.01.12 | http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152140729600603&set=a.10150273062480603.531079.830215602&type=1&theater
you cant say i can land 12's looking like this |
