I really think you're kidding yourself if you don't realise its pop music or an attempt in that ballpark, especially in his work over the last three or four years. Again i'm not against the use of unconventional time signatures or uncommon chord progressions, those can fit into any genre whatsoever, but as I've said in all his work he fails to create context around these individual ideas that brings them together, resulting in underdeveloped and unimpactful choices that would be much improved if he were to develop his writing, causing me to find him to be one of the worst songwriters I've ever heard.

I wasn't particularly suggesting that he completely follow anyone else, and that London scene wasn't at the forefront of my mind when referencing nu jazz (although I do think he does have similarities especially to Moses Boyd in places). Works I was suggesting combine jazz and pop in such a theoretically interesting way whilst also satisfying both sensibilities were albums like Roisin Murphy's Ruby Blue or Fiona Apple's last one. Neither of those are particularly hooky in the sense we think of when it comes to pop music, but they make use of some incredible strong motifs that provide context and development to the arrangement around them (and the vocals are good!).

I think the problem is I don't get any emotion whatsoever from his work, it sounds calculated and unjustified. There is an element of subjective response to emotional cues but to compare his work to that of Western classical music (in which the reserved audience effect is actually an unfortunate holdover from some very classist attitudes concerning music being a source of refinement), and in any case does have some very strong emotional responses from people anyway (so I'm not sure what that guy is on about). If you could maybe point to examples of songs and what emotional response you get from them then this might be a more useful discussion point.

I'm not saying that pop and jazz are entirely different in function, there's ample crossover, but that the way these present themselves is different. With that difference there are compatibilities between the two, but works that refuse these compatibilities usually end up sounding like the worst version of each (not definitive as I'm sure there are good examples of this working, but for the most part not so).

Per your clip, that segment works well on it's own but without hearing the context outside of that in the full piece it renders it fairly uninspiring (and his vocals still suck), its the classic problem I've mentioned before, individual ideas that struggle to find cohesion between themselves.

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Get a room, guys

whats the rent im broke

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I’m not reading all that but good for you or sorry that happened

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"I really think you're kidding yourself if you don't realise its pop music or an attempt in that ballpark"



Depends on what definition of pop you're using but his works outside of Djesse Vol. 3 haven't been classified as pop. Sputnik have him down as jazz/ jazz fusion, and his Wiki page has a more eclectic set of folk, funk, and a capella (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Collier). I think it's only easy to say pop because it's easier than describing each individual song or album as genre hopping is fairly commonplace to him. It draws on pop but is it explicitly so? Probably only for simplification.





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" (although I do think he does have similarities especially to Moses Boyd in places)"



Does it? I don't see the resemblance at all.



"There is an element of subjective response to emotional cues but to compare his work to that of Western classical music..."



I'm not comparing his work to classical music, although he does draw a lot of theory from it, so there comparison would be justifiably made anyway. Rather my point was that attitudes towards technical music have often this attitude of being 'calculated'. I remember even pianist Vijay Iyer protesting that journalists too often described his work endearingly complex and calculated, suggesting it was even a somewhat racist notion because of his Asian heritage.



Which is true here. Beyond a feeling, no music is correct or incorrect. It's justified purely by being, and that it reaches some audience is justification that something about it is sensible, even if it doesn't seem to be.



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" (in which the reserved audience effect is actually an unfortunate holdover from some very classist attitudes concerning music being a source of refinement)... and in any case does have some very strong emotional responses from people anyway (so I'm not sure what that guy is on about)"



So which is it? The encased statement seems to suggest you know what he's talking about but then you go on to say that you don't know what he's talking about? :-P



Thile is among the most celebrated working mandolin players who works in genres of classical and folk. His whole career revolves around being in these spaces. I'm sure he's keenly aware of the attitudes the genres of music he explores have.

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I can't get behind this "fails to create context" because, without any examples, it somewhat ironically doesn't mean anything. I actually don't know what that argument means. Even in the clip I shared, this notion of "it renders it fairly uninspiring" based on what? Like, it's a fairly inspired chord progression that slips neatly from an uplifting moment to quite a deliciously slick and jazzy chord. It's not a progression you'd hear very often, which is kind of the point of why it catches the violinist off-guard. It would only seem uninspired if you don't know what's happening, but that clips says all that it needs to say.





I think I get the argument applied to something like, for example, genre shifts or chord changes that are uncommon but this notion of context is really only serving to create some sort of conventionality. Going back to your original point that it lacks digestible hooks, it's like no shit? There isn't even a chorus in some of these songs.

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This is gonna be the longest page on Sput lmao

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Not even related, or barely related, to the actual album and artist.



Both perform progressive music I guess? They have folk music?

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good thread

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This is cool. I'm guessing it has little in common with grizzly bear.

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it's Grizzly Bear's co-frontman

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Yeah, I think there are a lot of similarities. Which is a good thing. It's a unique sound in itself.

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Ooh some Tim Buckley vibes in Shadow in the Frame

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nice catch. forgot about Buckley

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Quite a nice font I guess but that’s all we got

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It does exactly what it says on the tin.

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this is nice af

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Yeah I also think this deserves better art



But at the end of the day, whatever

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this is fuego montego--usually an album where the songs have this little structural mooring is tough on my pop-diseased ears but this just goes n goes so beautifully!

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Yeah, Rob. It's great stuff. I hope he decides to do more solo records.