Album Rating: 4.0

What were you banned for this time?

Can either of you try and...support the 'bad prog' thing?

I think this is their most prog album

Album Rating: 4.0

I don't think Zappa is denying it's a prog album, he's just saying it's a badly done prog album. I personally don't know/care whether it's prog or not (that's why I didn't name it prog in the title), I just know it's a rock/metal album that I really love.

Well, I mean if it's just a disagreement on what prog is...meh...

[QUOTE=Bartender]What were you banned for this time?[/QUOTE]
Posting in the "While the Mods Are Away" thread. Ironically, I was telling everyone who read it not to post in the thread. Guess I had to take one for the team...

[quote=The JoZ]Can either of you try and...support the 'bad prog' thing?

I think this is their most prog album[/quote]
No one's saying this isn't a prog album...in fact, this is really their only album that is prog. I dunno if this is exactly what Zappa thinks, but what I thought at first was that the instrumental parts were very boring (like in Reflection....it's a good drum part, but it goes on way too long and nothing changes) and quite frankly, Triad is a boring instrumental. Also, I think they tried to make long songs for the sake of being "prog" and it didn't work out in most cases. Plus, the whole filler thing they do with both Aenima and Lateralus (I can't speak for the other two, as I haven't heard them) is totally lame. They're just trying to push the album to the time limits of what a single disc can hold, and it's a gimmick. It really seemed like they tried to be prog, when they really weren't good at it. That's how I felt at first, but now it's grown on me and I really like it (Aenima is still far superior, though).

I admit there are parts that are longer than they should be. The opening solo in Triad is wicked, and I love the main beat...but after that, it does get boring. Reflection? Sure, the bass and drumlines may not change much, but to me, that song is about atmosphere, and the feeling of it. It's a huge feeling song. The whole 'see how much of the CD we can fill up deal' I don't feel is a gimmick, but filler tracks are. But if you look at it, Lateralus only had 2 filler tracks on it...and one was at the very end...

I mean, if you compare them to Dream Theater, yeah, they aren't changing every 5 bars...

But despite how good DT are, sometimes I think they change too just for the sake of it...

I really don't want to argue about this, because it seems that people conflict over the meaning of 'prog'...so...

[QUOTE=The JoZ]I really don't want to argue about this, because it seems that people conflict over the meaning of 'prog'...so...[/QUOTE]
Everyone agrees that it's prog.

[QUOTE=Kaden3]Everyone agrees that it's prog.[/QUOTE]

Not in R&M they don't...

I have had to defend Tool's prog-ness on more than one occasion in there

I think Tool is way too popular for a prog band. "Prog" is one of those genres used for a band that is limited by how much mainstream success a band can garner, like "punk" or "death metal." Genres like that just don't have mainstream appeal.

Dream Theater, Rush, Yes are all very popular too (or were)...are you going to deny them Prog status too?

[QUOTE=YDload]I think Tool is way too popular for a prog band. "Prog" is one of those genres used for a band that is limited by how much mainstream success a band can garner, like "punk" or "death metal." Genres like that just don't have mainstream appeal.[/QUOTE]
Prog doesn't have to do with how popular it is. Like all genres, it's determined by the sound of the music.

Album Rating: 5.0

But to challenge that, prog doesn't really have a distinct sound of it's own.



In fact progressive means continuous change, so if there was a particular 'prog sound' that everyone had, the music wouldn't progress.

[QUOTE=Distorted Vision]But to challenge that, prog doesn't really have a distinct sound of it's own.

In fact progressive means continuous change, so if there was a particular 'prog sound' that everyone had, the music wouldn't progress.[/QUOTE]
That's true. I realize people have alot of differing opinions over what prog is, but I think we can all pretty much agree that it isn't decided based on mainstream popularity.

Who said anything about Tool's popularity?

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Who said anything about Tool's popularity?[/QUOTE]
YDload did, he said they're too popular to be prog.

Yeah I know that

I guess a better question should've been "What the hell does their popularity have to do with what genre they are?"

There only really popular to people who have any sort of intrest in rock... i mean i walk into my school n go 'have yu heard of tool' id get more funny looks than responses..

Album Rating: 4.0

[QUOTE=Distorted Vision]But to challenge that, prog doesn't really have a distinct sound of it's own.



In fact progressive means continuous change, so if there was a particular 'prog sound' that everyone had, the music wouldn't progress.[/QUOTE]



That's just because the definition of prog has changed. Technically, it still means progressive, meaning trying something new in each song. With early prog bands, that's why they were called prog. But then bands which made the same type of music came along, and they were also labelled prog, so now there's really two different meanings for the same genre description - one meaning actually progressing and experimenting beyond what's already been done, and one meaning being as the prog blueprint has become. Dream Theater are a good example of a blueprint band - they're nowhere near being actually progressive.

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Yeah I know that

I guess a better question should've been "What the hell does their popularity have to do with what genre they are?"[/QUOTE]

Well, in my mind the only difference between certain genres such as "punk" and "pop-punk" is that one of them is designated to a band that has gained POPularity. Prog bands such as Yes used to be popular, but nowadays it's not so common. I just think Tool is more of a hard rock band, and their first two albums were definitely not weird enough to cover their entire discography under the "prog" banner.

This album is a true masterpiece 5/5.
Great review