Dream Theater A Dramatic Turn of Events
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Parallels
September 10th 2011


6641 Comments

Album Rating: 3.0 | Sound Off


I know who wrote the original drum parts for the album, but it doesn't matter. The drum parts are bland and unexciting, reagardless. I don't give a fuck who wrote them, he played them and they're weak. If he had a problem with them, then he should have spoke up, but he didn't and now he takes the blame. Plain and fucking simple. This isn't Sesame Street, I'm not here to make excuses for the band or spare someone's feelings -- I'm here to talk about the album.

Awesome words, my friend. Well done review as well. MINDPOS'D

fish.
Contributing Reviewer
September 10th 2011


21968 Comments


I hate that cover art

Parallels
September 10th 2011


6641 Comments

Album Rating: 3.0 | Sound Off

yeah it sucks, that dude makes me think of the FII cover

jrowa001
September 10th 2011


8750 Comments

Album Rating: 4.0

album is good. like it more than their last two albums

Jom
Staff Reviewer
September 10th 2011


2682 Comments


Plain and fucking simple. This isn't Sesame Street, I'm not here to make excuses for the band or spare someone's feelings -- I'm here to talk about the album.


onlyhere4Treybombs

Underflow
September 10th 2011


2565 Comments


I don't get how it doesn't matter that he didn't write the drum parts. That seems pretty important.

Willie
Moderator
September 10th 2011


16019 Comments

Album Rating: 3.2

It doesn't matter because he still played them and they were bland (also the lack of power is at least 75% his fault. The rest
could be blamed on production). Also, I just re-read that section (which is half of a single paragraph, not the monstrous
majority that some are making it out to be), and I never said he wrote the material that he played only that it was boring and
that Portnoy would have done better.

Digging: Skrew - Universal Immolation

Underflow
September 10th 2011


2565 Comments


My apologies, I misread your post. I thought that your first reply was towards me. But, anyway, how
is the fact that he did not write the drum parts irrelevant to his performance on the album?

Jom
Staff Reviewer
September 10th 2011


2682 Comments


I think one of his primary criticisms is that Mangini could have embellished further on what Petrucci wrote with a drum machine, but that it sounds like, to the reviewer, that Mangini didn't (either by choice or because Petrucci/the band said no); thus, he/the band, for better [or for worse, in the reviewer's opinion] didn't do so in ways that are reminiscent of past albums. That's a reasonable critique.

In Mangini's defense, sort of, he had some really tough circumstances to navigate. He's coming into a band that's heralded by the metal community even more so than they were in the '90s/early 2000s, replacing Portnoy, who's known as a pretty nice guy, and having to play parts that were already written for him by Petrucci.

Mangini could have said, "I see what you did here, but what about if I did [this]?" and played a fill or pattern over what was already written by the other members. If he was able to have some autonomy in this process, then it's very reasonable for the reviewer to levy criticism against him. However, it wouldn't be a personal attack on the fella, but more a critique of Petrucci's fallibility in trying to write drum parts in comparison to what Portnoy may have done.

Also, if Mangini wasn't allowed to express his own creativity on the record, then that's Petrucci being kind of a dick (even though I kinda doubt he would be dickish, since he's also known as a pretty nice bloke).

ShinXetsu
September 10th 2011


605 Comments

Album Rating: 3.5 | Sound Off

"I don't get how it doesn't matter that he didn't write the drum parts. That seems pretty important."

Just because you don't write the drum parts doesn't mean you have to play them so blandly. Take Thomas
Haake of Meshuggah for example, he's not a primary songwriter so when it comes time to record the
drums he plays what the guys have lined up but he makes it sound damn good.

EDIT: and what Jom said, very well put.

Jom
Staff Reviewer
September 10th 2011


2682 Comments


Pretty sure Haake is secretly Goro from Mortal Kombat.

Underflow
September 10th 2011


2565 Comments


I will agree that to an extent, and only to an extent, that the drummer himself is responsible for his
performance in this case. A good drummer can add a degree of style and flair to pre-written parts. But
there's only so much you can do with parts that were written for you. Mangini being a new member, and
with much of the album already written, it wouldn't have made sense for him to suggest radical
changes. He wasn't in a position to do that considering that a. he's a newcomer and b. the writing
processes had already been well-underway.

Willie
Moderator
September 10th 2011


16019 Comments

Album Rating: 3.2

What Jom said and:

It doesn't matter because he still played them and they were bland (also the lack of power is at least 75% his fault. The rest
could be blamed on production). Also, I just re-read that section (which is half of a single paragraph, not the monstrous
majority that some are making it out to be), and I never said he wrote the material that he played only that it was boring and
that Portnoy would have done better.

Det_Nosnip
September 10th 2011


374 Comments


Well, it's not surprise that Mike played it safe - that's what got him the gig. There were plenty of drummers who demonstrated better creativity - Virgil Donati even wrote his own drum parts for the audition rather than playing Portnoy's. That clearly was not what the band was looking for. Mike Mangini is a significantly better drummer than Portnoy, and I'm sure there's all kinds of things that he could have done with the parts if allowed - but as the new guy, the best thing he could do was to stroke the band's ego, keep his mouth shut, and play exactly what they want him to.

Jom
Staff Reviewer
September 10th 2011


2682 Comments


I can agree with your reasoning to an extent as well.

Again, I don't personally know the circumstances of the recording sessions; id est, if Mangini was able to express his opinion on Petrucci's arrangements/be allowed to have some autonomy in the writing process. If he wasn't, then the criticism should be levied on Petrucci more, and there's an opportunity for the reviewer to revise that in the review if he chooses.

However, if Mangini was allowed to come in and not be treated like a session musician and be able to embellish on Petrucci's "rough drafts" (for lack of a better phrase, my apologies), then some criticism can be levied against Mangini for not embellishing in what the reviewer felt was unique/interesting/what have you. In my opinion, Mangini probably really, really, REALLY wanted this gig, so he was going to do what he was told, and just wait for the next album to have more autonomy in the writing process.

Under no circumstances would I ever want to be in Mangini's shoes, though. I would admittedly be very nervous about not being part of the recording process from start-to-finish or be able to express my professional opinion on something that was written. For example, to a much, much lesser extent than what Mangini was going through, I was brought in by a band as a bitch session musician. I thought the band's rhythm section was weak - I would be playing bass for them, and they only wrote riffs that followed root notes 100% of the time - and so when I wanted to embellish or recommend things that would have made the songs sound tighter, some of the band members lost their shit because HOW DARE I OFFER A SUGGESTION OF IMPROVEMENT FOR THEIR SHITTY SONGWRITING.

I'm NOT saying that DT would have been like that, but again, I personally don't know the circumstances. We know Petrucci wrote the parts, but what I don't know is if Petrucci was authoritarian about it (YOU WILL PLAY WHAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU NO QUESTIONS ASKED) or authoritative ("Here's what I have, see what you think, but if you have any ideas that would make this sound better, I'm all ears").

Underflow
September 10th 2011


2565 Comments


Yeah, I get that. That segment of the review comes across as unfair in my opinion. Perhaps it's just my interpretation of what you said. Regardless, It's a good review, Willie. Well done. I didn't mean to bust your balls.

Underflow
September 10th 2011


2565 Comments


Also, thanks Jom. It's good to know I'm not completely irrational.

Willie
Moderator
September 10th 2011


16019 Comments

Album Rating: 3.2

They'll heal ;)

If it comes out that the band dictated that he not deviate then I'd be happy to revise, but until then I have to blame the performer.

Underflow
September 10th 2011


2565 Comments


Fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Jom
Staff Reviewer
September 10th 2011


2682 Comments


Everybody's raised realistic points. Challenging opinions and being able to articulate one's thoughts well is what makes everybody better.

As the ever-ridiculous-but-sometimes-eloquent Rasheed Wallance said multiple times over the course of a silly post-game interview:

"It was a good game; both teams played hard."



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