And the power dynamics thing parallels the Pinegrove accusations. Are famous people not allowed to have sex with people who aren't? Some people want to brand any sexual activity between an artist and their fan as inherently exploitative. It can be in certain cases, but not as a general rule. This should be an evolving cultural discussion rather than a legal matter in my opinion.

Album Rating: 3.5

Idk man, I haven’t read the article yet but the quote Colton claims qualifies as at least one accusation of sexual assault beyond just the power dynamics thing. Nothing is definite of course and there is Win’s counterclaim but it sounds like more is being accused than “just” him being an asshole/creep.

"Responding to Butler’s account, Lily said it was possible that he touched them through their pants rather than putting his hand inside, but maintained that it was a “very aggressive” touching of their crotch, not their inner thigh, and that their response was not flirtatious."

I recommend reading the article in full, Pitchfork did a great job covering this and giving a fair hearing to both sides.

Album Rating: 3.5

Fair enough with that other quote. I agree with your thoughts on the power dynamics thing in general and it does seem a lot of recent cases fall more under that than aggressive/flagrant assault or misconduct.

Album Rating: 2.5

Boney I think you’re right in that most of this seems like ‘one quite serious thing and a load of extra on the side’



I mean 500 words describe a ‘maybe’ non consensual kiss. This seems like overkill in trying to build up a picture of a character who repeat offended.

As soon as i read about "power dynamics" i check out. They're adults and they make their own decisions.

Album Rating: 2.5

A lot of ‘he made it clear it was sexual from him…I didn’t agree…I decided to meet up with him again’



You have to say ‘why?’ - even at 18 you must be questioning how many platonic 18 year old girl friends a rock star needs.



Sounds like he regrets and has apologised for what he’s done here - don’t think this is huge. He maintains he stopped whenever it was expressed something was non consensual and that checks out from texts etc

Album Rating: 3.5

I find it a bit funny that the article characterizes Win’s prior public image as super virtuous; I can’t really think of explicit examples of why, but I always had the sense that he was kind of an asshole (at least an egotist) and thought that was the general consensus.

Album Rating: 2.5

This one actually might be the case where someone comes out of this pretty well:

- he says he's reformed

- he says he regrets his behaviour

- he says he still likes/respects the people involved

- he says it makes him feel 'sad' these incidents were unpleasant for those involved (seems genuine)

- he says none of it was non consensual (and seems evidence in most cases that checks out?)

Album Rating: 2.6

Lol any statements made in light of a possible metoo should be taken with the biggest grain of salt possible, like why tf would he not say he regrets it regardless of whether he actually does or not



Personally I think the mere fact of trawling his own audience for side action over a span of years kinda shows the sort of person Win is but even the accusers' accounts don't exactly paint a picture of an abusive monster, more just a pathetic gasbag who can't take a hint

Album Rating: 2.5

A lot of accused characters have denied everything and hence said they regret nothing so I don't know.



He's saying he did wrong and was an asshole, was pathetic - this is good, he can do no more than apologise and admit that, and then change :/



If he went further and did something illegal then that's different but it seems very shaky that he did.



Even my buddy in a non famous local band STILL gets girls making advances and he's nearly 40 now and in a settled relationship - you don't need to trawl much, but yeah not cool - but Win admits it

"so you're a fucking idiot, thanks for letting us know" This is quite a nuanced take, care to expand on this well thought out rebuttal?

Album Rating: 2.0

oh yeah because 'As soon as i read about "power dynamics" i check out. They're adults and they make their own decisions' is such a nuanced and well thought out take in the first place

Album Rating: 2.6

When I make sweeping statements off the cuff it's pithy and observant, but when other people do that? Well, then I just have to wonder where the NNNNUUUUAAAANNNNCCCCEEEE is

It... doesn't have to be nuanced? When someone is 18 they can vote but they can't recognise when someone is a creep?

Album Rating: 3.5

TIL being an adult makes you impervious to emotional manipulation.

It should make you aware of it lol. Like, why the fuck else is a rock star hanging out with an 18 year old girl.

Album Rating: 2.6

Yo Keaton I suggest you drop this before you spell out what you're implying here because it is not 2005 anymore and the mods will not take your side

forgot about the magic switch that happens the second you turn 18 where suddenly you are expected to be responsible and rational in all situations that you weren't a day ago my bad

Album Rating: 2.6

Going back for a more thorough read through the Pitchfork article (I admittedly only skimmed it and read a tl;dr or two yesterday) and yeah this is some real scumbag shit, especially telling security to keep the college girl you're sexting away at a public event?? Like Jesus you're already using this poor kid to get your rocks off and you won't even let her snap a selfie, wtf



Might have to recant my previous opinion that this isn't cancellable, idk if I think win is necessarily lying about the consent part but I'd bet dollars to donuts he has a big enough head to remember things in a way where he did nothing wrong even if that wasn't the case