swap 19 with 8 and it'd be perfect.

nicely done. i don't agree on the order of a bunch of those records but you've pretty much hit most every single record that counts. some grossly over looked bands that could easily replace bands like horropops, aus rotten, etc:

velvet undergroud
mc5
ny dolls
government issue
richard hell and the voidoids
cramps
avengers
x ray spex
slits

[QUOTE=guns_of_brixton]This is where your post started to suck.[/QUOTE]

The clash, the pistols, the ramones... everyone bangs on about them all the time... i never said they weren't punk- just not all that punk. Of course you may have the wrong end of my stick- im talking from a perspective beyond what genre the music is. Also, I have no evidence but i've heard a lot about the pistols being completely manufactured- does anyone have anything to back that up or is it just a false rumour? I hope its just a rumour- of the three bands the pistols had the best album with never mind the b0ll0cks.

The pistols were as manufactured as any modern pop band, put together by a label

[QUOTE=Schqwnbean]

[b]Influential[/b] is [u]not[/u] the same as [b]good[/b]. yes the ramones, the pistols, and the clash were massive influences, but frankly they werent that great as bands, or even that punk! Didn't johnny ramone become a republican?!

[/QUOTE]

you know you're a total and complete douchebag? if it weren't for the ramones, clash or sex pistols, propaghandi, or none of the bands you listen to today would even exist today. and what makes one band more punk than the next?

He means punk by the music they play, and the Clash didn't play a lot of punk.

He's right, just because a band is influential doesn't mean everyone has to like them.

[QUOTE=Twat_Out_Of_Hell]He means punk by the music they play, and the Clash didn't play a lot of punk.

He's right, just because a band is influential doesn't mean everyone has to like them.[/QUOTE]

Oh no, not this again. ;)

I never implied he had to enjoy them. I will never imply anyone has to like any band. But he's not giving them their proper due. When he says influential is not the same as good, that's from his subjective point of view. I counter with, if they were no good, then how could they be possibly be influential? Enough bands had to have liked them for them to be these revered bands that they are today, no?

What again, is the definition of a punk band? Any band that must play fast and like the Ramones? You didn't say that but that's what I'm getting from you and schwqbean when he said aforementioned bands weren't "all that punk."

Well, punk in general is an aggressive form of rock, fast, simple and energetic (muscially).

It's debatable whether the clash are punk as in their music was so varied they didn't reallt stick to any genre in particular and included a lot of reggae in particular in their music.

What you're saying is true, for a band to be influentail they must be popular but that doesn't mean everyone has to like them. I think that's all they meant

[QUOTE=mike79]Oh no, not this again. ;)

I never implied he had to enjoy them. I will never imply anyone has to like any band. But he's not giving them their proper due. When he says influential is not the same as good, that's from his subjective point of view. I counter with, if they were no good, then how could they be possibly be influential? Enough bands had to have liked them for them to be these revered bands that they are today, no?

What again, is the definition of a punk band? Any band that must play fast and like the Ramones? You didn't say that but that's what I'm getting from you and schwqbean when he said aforementioned bands weren't "all that punk."[/QUOTE]

So, because I disagree with 'his holiness' mike79, I am a douchebag? Valid point there bud.

And I understand that modern punk wouldn't exist without them. I acknowledge they played an important role in the history of punk. But in my opinion they were nothin special. So they influenced many people. But to be an influence you don't have to be any good. I don't like the ramones (oooh thats going to make me sooo unpopular on here). I find their music repetitive and boring after 15 mins or so. Thats just me though, my opinion.

I think you're getting the wrong end of the sausage. Everything I post is my opinion. Not divine law. Isn't that the point of a message board- particularly a punk one? Expressing your opinion?

Thats kinda what i meant twat_out_of_hell. But influences don't have to be popular etc- people you hate influence you to be [b]not[/b] like them for example.

Why don't we just close these threads?

[QUOTE=Schqwnbean]So, because I disagree with 'his holiness' mike79, I am a douchebag? Valid point there bud.

And I understand that modern punk wouldn't exist without them. I acknowledge they played an important role in the history of punk. But in my opinion they were nothin special. So they influenced many people. But to be an influence you don't have to be any good. I don't like the ramones (oooh thats going to make me sooo unpopular on here). I find their music repetitive and boring after 15 mins or so. Thats just me though, my opinion.

I think you're getting the wrong end of the sausage. Everything I post is my opinion. Not divine law. Isn't that the point of a message board- particularly a punk one? Expressing your opinion?

And yes thats what i meant twat_out_of_hell.[/QUOTE]

And I'm gonna keep on calling you a total douchebag moron because:

A. I am in total agreement that nobody is forcing you to like anything yet you're trying to call me out on that.

B. In your previous comments, you were stating how "punk" bands were like the Clash, Ramones, Pistols when you don't know the history of the pistols and when its obvious the extent of your superficial knowledge of punk rock starts and stops with Casualties, Bad Religion and the Descedents type bands. Johnny Ramone was a Republican! OMG! Not punx rawk!

So yea, as your god, stop expressing your uninformed opinions until you have actual substance and legitimacy to back it up.

[QUOTE=Twat_Out_Of_Hell]
It's debatable whether the clash are punk as in their music was so varied they didn't reallt stick to any genre in particular and included a lot of reggae in particular in their music.
[/QUOTE]

No offense, but you need to listen to more old bands (pre 80s hardcore like Television, Talking Heads, The Slits, X Ray Spex) and learn more about the history when its obvious comments like "its debatable whether the clash are punk" are just uninformed when it was BECAUSE they were so varied and doing their own thing while still rocking your *** to the ground, they were punk as ****.

Not really, i listen to a lot of 'old' punk. To be honest, i think you'll find about 50% of the people in this forum would say that the clash aren't punk

[QUOTE=Twat_Out_Of_Hell]Not really, i listen to a lot of 'old' punk. To be honest, [B]i think you'll find about 50% of the people in this forum would say that the clash aren't punk[/B][/QUOTE]



Musically wise I can see that. But they did ALOT for the punk culture.

The Clash were first and foremost a punk band. Has anyone even listened to The Clash?

[QUOTE=Ihatehate]Musically wise I can see that. But they did ALOT for the punk culture.[/QUOTE]

definately

[QUOTE=Twat_Out_Of_Hell]Not really, i listen to a lot of 'old' punk. To be honest, i think you'll find about 50% of the people in this forum would say that the clash aren't punk[/QUOTE]

That's very surprising and very sad to hear that but I'd also be willing to bet the average age of those 50% who think the clash aren't a punk band is around 16 or 17. And this brings me back to something i referred to earlier, punk is heard by kids today as a particular sound, not as a particular mentality and approach to rock music which I'd contend is what punk was always about.

the clash?never heard of this band.are they any good?

[QUOTE=mike79]That's very surprising and very sad to hear that but I'd also be willing to bet the average age of those 50% who think the clash aren't a punk band is around 16 or 17. And this brings me back to something i referred to earlier, punk is heard by kids today as a particular sound, not as a particular mentality and approach to rock music which I'd contend is what punk was always about.[/QUOTE]

Definately, that's what makes the Clash a punk band. Their music was varied and they flittered in and out of genres but their style and ethos was punk

[QUOTE=mike79]And I'm gonna keep on calling you a total douchebag moron because:

A. I am in total agreement that nobody is forcing you to like anything yet you're trying to call me out on that.

B. In your previous comments, you were stating how "punk" bands were like the Clash, Ramones, Pistols when you don't know the history of the pistols and when its obvious the extent of your superficial knowledge of punk rock starts and stops with Casualties, Bad Religion and the Descedents type bands. Johnny Ramone was a Republican! OMG! Not punx rawk!

So yea, as your god, stop expressing your uninformed opinions until you have actual substance and legitimacy to back it up.[/QUOTE]

Oddly enough, i don't like the descendents or the casualties, but i do admit to having a fancy for bad religion.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I did think we were discussing music rather than how people think and act, but if we're moving onto mentality then that confuses things even more so. As people on this forum have confirmed, the sex pistols were manufactured, which is [b]not[/b] punk. But, looking at their attitudes to life and what they sang about, they are. Similarly, the ramones music, at the time, was definitely punk-rock (or punx rawk, wH@T eV@ U waN2cALL iT). By modern music standards, they are probably pop punk. By mentality, with the lead member being a republican, they are a mixture- part of 'punk' is an alternative view to life, almost similar to the hippies (but obviously NOT the same). This of course has been warped by the mass media and some modern bands (*cough* good *cough* charlotte *cough cough*) into sh1tty mess.

The clash's 'punkness' was always debatable, going on the music alone. But, as you quite rightly say, their mentality and appoach to things is punk, especially where they're from and what they sing of. Kinda like the specials really.

Not sure why you want conflict, but if you do, feel free to start another thread where we can discuss this further instead of flaming this thread all the time.

Listen to The Clash's first album and then tell me they weren't a punk band.

This post is from a music genre perspective.

At the time, they [b]were[/b], but by modern standards not so much, in my opinion (I'm going to have to put that on every freaking thing i say now so im not pulled over by the mikey79 opinion police). Take into account their other recordings.

/listens to first album

they aren't a punk band

/lies

[QUOTE=Schqwnbean]This post is from a music genre perspective.

At the time, they [b]were[/b], but by modern standards not so much, in my opinion (I'm going to have to put that on every freaking thing i say now so im not pulled over by the mikey79 opinion police). Take into account their other recordings.[/QUOTE]
The Vandals made a country album. OMG they must be country!!!!!

lol well on that one you have me beaten into the ground ;)

/me kisses sketchyjoes feet

[QUOTE=Twat_Out_Of_Hell]Not really, i listen to a lot of 'old' punk. To be honest, i think you'll find about 50% of the people in this forum would say that the clash aren't punk[/QUOTE]

thats sad....

[QUOTE=Schqwnbean]Oddly enough, i don't like the descendents or the casualties, but i do admit to having a fancy for bad religion.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I did think we were discussing music rather than how people think and act, but if we're moving onto mentality then that confuses things even more so. [/QUOTE]

That's convenient of you to say but I was responding to your confusing statement of classifying the Clash "beyond the genre" of music, which I read as something other than the music itself. And you say the Clash are punk....but not all that punk? So we're talking strictly the music now? Got it.

[QUOTE=Schqwnbean]The clash, the pistols, the ramones... everyone bangs on about them all the time... i never said they weren't punk- just not all that punk. Of course you may have the wrong end of my stick- im talking from a perspective beyond what genre the music is.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=Schqwnbean]As people on this forum have confirmed, the sex pistols were manufactured, which is [b]not[/b] punk. But, looking at their attitudes to life and what they sang about, they are. Similarly, the ramones music, at the time, was definitely punk-rock (or punx rawk, wH@T eV@ U waN2cALL iT). By modern music standards, they are probably pop punk. By mentality, with the lead member being a republican, they are a mixture- part of 'punk' is an alternative view to life, almost similar to the hippies (but obviously NOT the same). This of course has been warped by the mass media and some modern bands (*cough* good *cough* charlotte *cough cough*) into sh1tty mess.
[/QUOTE]

I thought we were talking sound? You want to go back to the mentality issue now? I had no idea Johnny's politics was so central to the Ramones music. You'll have to read me some of Joey's and Dee Dee's lyrics to refresh my memory. As for the pistols, are we now talking music or attitude? I thought you wanted to talk about their sound? Manufactured or not-and this forum supposedly confirming their lack of authenticity doesn't give your statements any credibility whatsoever-they were the only band playing that style of rock at the time, a style that has been ripped off by generations of punk bands so I don't know where you going with the Pistols slagging.

[QUOTE=Schqwnbean]The clash's 'punkness' was always debatable, going on the music alone. But, as you quite rightly say, their mentality and appoach to things is punk, especially where they're from and what they sing of. Kinda like the specials really.[/QUOTE]

Attitude wise-the clash were punk in spades-we agree. Going by the music alone? Their roots are firmly implanted in punk as its obvious you've never even heard the S/T album or else you wouldn't be making statements like that. I mean think about it for a second, if the Clash's "punk" sound was debatable, yet they were one of the first group of bands playing that "punk" sound, then how is it possible they aren't "punk? You're a very confused kid. Lodon Calling encompassed various styles of rock music, including the punk sound.

[QUOTE=Schqwnbean]Not sure why you want conflict, but if you do, feel free to start another thread where we can discuss this further instead of flaming this thread all the time.[/QUOTE]

You're getting static from me because your opinions are grossly misinformed and based on heresay and conjecture. Yet instead of taking my criticism and swallowing it for your own good, you come back for more. You think those old bands suck and todays' bands are better. I get it. But if you're going to bash the "punkness" of those bands here or anywhere in the future with other people who probably know more about this subject than me, then be prepared to get clowned and laughed out of the conversation every single time. Guaranteed.

Have a good evening sir. :wave:

last time I checked, the thread title did not say, punk debate, so stfu. Arguing on the internet, how fun.

any way

clash=good music
settled

[QUOTE=chairman_of_the_board]any way

against me=good music
settled[/QUOTE]


123

discussing the clash

against me = good agreed

Wow, this was awesome for me. Coming from a mainly Rock/Metal background I was looking for more punk albums. I remembered seeing the polls for this, so I thought I'd see if it was still here. Boy, the results were well done. Like how the albums got descriptions. very well done. Kudos to the guy who organized this. Now, I got a good hardy list of albums to pick up. :thumb:

Here and now, I fall on my knees before mike79.

Every arguement I come up with is flattened by you- and goddam it I'm not used to losing! I still think you're wrong, but I have absolutely nothing else to say so I concede complete and utter defeat.

Thankyou, and I will have a nice day :)

That was wicked man.

sex pistols were a punk band, ramones were a punk band


the clash were the clash, they werent anything in particular, they played everything

i think rancid-AOCTW should of been higher. the bass solo in maxwell ripped

[QUOTE=metty16]i think rancid-AOCTW should of been higher. the bass solo in maxwell ripped[/QUOTE]
Your user title is spot on. That solo sucks.

yeah thats a great list and that. could of any Millencolins albums, 'Pennybridge Pionneers' or "Life On A Plate" could of graced the list, those albums were amazing, not just saying that from a millencolin fans point of view. except that, a spot on list

Nice dude. I do think Dag Nasty's "Can I Say" should be on there though. Glad that DK won it. Also glad that Operation Ivy is 3. Nice dude

Well i think personally i could change it, but in all well done. this is a great effort, maybe gettin rid of AFI. im glad to see no ****ty try hard punk bands AKA simple plan. i like your interest in old school punk, and low amounts of post punk. DK are awesome, love political messages, Clash rock, Ramones invented rock and punk basically, and then the new school, like rancid and nofx. good stuff and stop ya whinging, unless ya wanna do one yaselves