[QUOTE=GabeSHL]I saw Big D last night. Un****ingbelievable.[/QUOTE]
Awesome! I'm seeing them may 28 @ the bloomfield ave cafe...everyone go!!!:)

(I've only read the first page, so call me lazy)

KithKin, I applaud you. No one that I know would take the time that you have to write half as much as you did about pretty much anything.

However, I think most of your information is crap, and my reasons for saying so are these:

1) There is no such thing as ska-core.
2) Offbeats and horns does not equal ska.
3) There is a HUGE difference between Ska-influenced _(whatever)_ and ska.
4) WHERE ARE THE SPECIALS?!?
5) You had nowhere NEAR enough stuff on ANY of the bands you should've had. Specifically, The Toasters and The Skatalites, and The Specials. Bands that DEFINED ska-booms.
6) Rob Hingley is the most important man in ska today, and you didn't even mention his name.
And lastly...
7) There is no such things as waves.

If I wasn't on this stupid computer, I could give you a few links to pages and pages of stuff that you could read, proving all of these points, but this computer is stupid.

Heck yes I pretend to be an elitist.

1. Ska-core is ska with breakdowns.
2. Where does he say that they do?
3. Everyone knows this.
4. This is primarily third wave thread.
5. Everyone knows these bands. There are separate profiles on them elsewhere ion the forum also.
6. He references how The Toasters set up Moon Ska. So what if he doesn;t mention him by name.
7. Yes, there are. The waves are the points when ska was in the public eye.

[QUOTE=sketchyjoe]1. Ska-core is ska with breakdowns.
2. Where does he say that they do?
3. Everyone knows this.
4. This is primarily third wave thread.
5. Everyone knows these bands. There are separate profiles on them elsewhere ion the forum also.
6. He references how The Toasters set up Moon Ska. So what if he doesn;t mention him by name.
7. Yes, there are. The waves are the points when ska was in the public eye.[/QUOTE]

1. I repeat, there is no such thing as ska-core.
2. I never said he said he did. I said that offbeats and horns don't equal ska.
3. Well, okay, but nobody does anything with it.
4. Waves do not exist. Pretty much anything you call third wave, I call rock with horns.
5. Well, this is my first venture outside of drums and percussion, so I wouldn't know about these other threads. I meant he didn't go into enough detail, because they were so important.
6. No. Rob Hingley set up Moon Ska. Then he founded The Toasters. Then Moon Ska died. Then he set up Megalith Records. Somewhere in there, he also set up Moon Ska Europe, and Moon Ska Japan.
7. Waves do not exist, and if I wasn't on a stupid computer I could provide a link that goes into much more detail than I'm ever going to touch.

Why doesn't skacore exist? Sure, it may be a silly word, but it's a combination of hardcore breakdowns, ska, and punk, and the term makes sense. Some skacore bands could be labeled just hardcore punk or whatever, but if you said [insert band here] was a punk to some punk fan they wouldn't believe you, what with the ska chords (who cares if they're usually distorted?) and the horns.

As Joe said, this thread is mainly about third wave bands. And third wave is generally characterized by skapunk bands, but it is also made up of trad-sounding bands/artists like The Slackers and Chris Murray, which he listed.

[QUOTE=whatthedeath?!?]

1) There is no such thing as ska-core.

[b]Wrong, ska-core is the combination of ska or skapunk and metal breakdowns. When punk and metal breakdowns are thrown together, it is hardcore. When you do the same with ska substituted for punk, you get ska-core. You don't have to call it ska-core if you don't want, but the music exists regardless of what you call it and people will understand what you mean without having to explain the amalgamation of two forms.[/b]

2) Offbeats and horns does not equal ska.

[b]You already responded[/b]

3) There is a HUGE difference between Ska-influenced _(whatever)_ and ska.

[b]Yes, but all forms of ska fall under into the genre ska. It is easier to say ska than ska-punk. Most of the bands on this list are third wave bands, and 90% of them are ska-punk bands. [/b]

4) WHERE ARE THE SPECIALS?!?

[b]As I said, most are third wave bands. The specials simply are not.[/b]

5) You had nowhere NEAR enough stuff on ANY of the bands you should've had. Specifically, The Toasters and The Skatalites, and The Specials. Bands that DEFINED ska-booms.

[b]Yes, well the punk in me doesn't care much to toot the horn of bands that anyone who has spent any independent time researching in a genre will have found scads of information about anyway. This is far more for bands that you might not have heard rather than bands you probably already know something about. And the toasters didn't define the 3rd wave ska-boom. The booms are defined by a mainstream surge in popularity and while the toasters are certaintly a popular underground band, they weren't responsible for the surge in the Bosstones, No Doubt, Sublime, and to a lesser extent RBF and LTJ's popularity. I would say that Moon Ska is a large reason why ska didn't die when those bands lost their mainstream appeal[/b]

6) Rob Hingley is the most important man in ska today, and you didn't even mention his name.


[b]I mentioned two or three names, Chris Murray because he is a one man band, and Thomas Kalakony because he defines the bands he is in, and possibly Mike Park. Other than them, I don't know the names of anyone in any other ska bands. That said, I now know that he founded Moon Ska. And, before it went under, it would be right to say that he was the most important man in ska of the day. I don't know who runs Moon Ska Europe now, but that person might hold to title today, as they are certaintly picking up a lot of great bands. Mike Park is another canidate, though his label isn't picking up as many ska bands as it used to. I'm not a hanger on from the most recent ska-boom. I remember it, but I wasn't a part of it. I barely started listening to music until the middle of high school. By the time I got into ska In college Moon Ska was closed and the toasters were back to being a hard working touring band.

For those of us who haven't been in the ska scene long enough to remember the day Moon Ska closed it's doors, Robert Hingly isn't going to mean as much as it does to you. Most of the people on this forum are in the same boat as me (though most of them because they are younger). In terms of generating nationwide excitement, whoever put together the ska is dead tour has done far more than any label has in the recent past. Its the only national tour that ran with a ska name and not just on the strength of the headliner.[/b]

7) There is no such things as waves.

[b]Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. The waves are simply a genre classification that is unique to ska. No genre sits well with everybody, but if I tell you a band is second wave, you have a pretty good idea of what it is going to sound like, which is the point of genre classifications. [/b]
[/QUOTE]

123

Plus the thing that everone should remember is just because we classify a genre as something here, doesn't mean that's what it is actually. Wherever you go, you'll be told something different because mostly, people have their own interpretations of what each genre is. So whatever "links" you were going to provide us with to "prove us wrong", will be just as meaningless as this thread.

[QUOTE=whatthedeath?!?]
4. Waves do not exist. Pretty much anything you call third wave, I call rock with horns.
[/QUOTE]Third wave has a huge range of styles. I call Hepcat or The Slackers third wave and they have a trad sound.

[QUOTE=Kithkin]
1) There is no such thing as ska-core.

Wrong, ska-core is the combination of ska or skapunk and metal breakdowns. When punk and metal breakdowns are thrown together, it is . When you do the same with ska substituted for punk, you get ska-core. You don't have to call it ska-core if you don't want, but the music exists regardless of what you call it and people will understand what you mean without having to explain the amalgamation of two forms.

[b]Like I said, ska is not simply offbeats with horns. That's what these bands use to call themselves skacore. They are not skacore, they are with ska influences. Thats the difference. Many a metal guitarist will tell you that they have jazz influences, doesn't make them jazz guitarists does it?[/b]

2) Offbeats and horns does not equal ska.

You already responded

[b]Yes.[/b]

3) There is a HUGE difference between Ska-influenced _(whatever)_ and ska.

Yes, but all forms of ska fall into the genre ska. It is easier to say ska than ska-punk. Most of the bands on this list are third wave bands, and 90% of them are ska-punk bands.

[b]Most of these bands incorporate simply upstrokes and horns to give themselves the ska title. This doesn't make them any more ska than it does swing. It just means that they are a punk band with ska-influences. Not ska-punk.

4) WHERE ARE THE SPECIALS?!?

As I said, most are third wave bands. The specials simply are not.

[b]I guess if you were going for a "third wave" thread, then having them wouldn't really work, so let me rephrase the question.

WHERE IS DR. RING DING?!?

..And if it is a third wave thread, why mention Skatalites, and Toots and The Maytals?[/b]

5) You had nowhere NEAR enough stuff on ANY of the bands you should've had. Specifically, The Toasters and The Skatalites, and The Specials. Bands that DEFINED ska-booms.

Yes, well the punk in me doesn't care much to toot the horn of bands that anyone who has spent any independent time researching in a genre will have found scads of information about anyway. This is far more for bands that you might not have heard rather than bands you probably already know something about. And the toasters didn't define the 3rd wave ska-boom. The booms are defined by a mainstream surge in popularity and while the toasters are certaintly a popular underground band, they weren't responsible for the surge in the Bosstones, No Doubt, Sublime, and to a lesser extent RBF and LTJ's popularity. I would say that Moon Ska is a large reason why ska didn't die when those bands lost their mainstream appeal

[b]True.[/b]

6) Rob Hingley is the most important man in ska today, and you didn't even mention his name.

I mentioned two or three names, Chris Murray because he is a one man band, and Thomas Kalakony because he defines the bands he is in, and possibly Mike Park. Other than them, I don't know the names of anyone in any other ska bands. That said, I now know that he founded Moon Ska. And, before it went under, it would be right to say that he was the most important man in ska of the day. I don't know who runs Moon Ska Europe now, but that person might hold to title today, as they are certaintly picking up a lot of great bands. Mike Park is another canidate, though his label isn't picking up as many ska bands as it used to. I'm not a hanger on from the most recent ska-boom. I remember it, but I wasn't a part of it. I barely started listening to musi il the middle of high school. By the time I got into ska In college Moon Ska was closed and the toasters were back to being a hard working touring band.

For those of us who haven't been in the ska scene long enough to remember the day Moon Ska closed it's doors, Robert Hingly isn't going to mean as much as it does to you. Most of the people on this forum are in the same boat as me (though most of them because they are younger). In terms of generating nationwide excitement, whoever put together the ska is tour has done far more than any label has in the recent past. Its the only national tour that ran with a ska name and not just on the strength of the headliner.

[b]Rob Hingley still runs Moon Ska Europe and Japan, unless I am very much mistaken. He now runs Megalith records. The most important label in the states today, and maybe the world.

Call me ignorant, but I don't know much about Mike Park's label, or even Mike Park. Except that he once said that on a scale of 10, playing in Utah rated a 9.

I'm 16 years old. Hardly old enough to remember when Moon Ska closed. Until about a year or two ago, I didn't even know what it was.

I don't know much about the guy (or guys) that are in charge of Ska Is , but it seems to me that the only ska band that has ever been on it, or will be on it, is The Toasters. The rest are punk bands with ska influences. Or just punk bands.[/b]


7) There is no such things as waves.

Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. The waves are simply a genre classification that is unique to ska. No genre sits well with everybody, but if I tell you a band is second wave, you have a pretty good idea of what it is going to sound like, which is the point of genre classifications.

[b]This is one of those things that I could explain a lot better with a link. But again, my home computer is pretty stupid. I'll get you the links I'm talking about by Monday for sure.[/b]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=the-UK-ska-scene]Plus the thing that everone should remember is just because we classify a genre as something here, doesn't mean that's what it is actually. Wherever you go, you'll be told something different because mostly, people have their own interpretations of what each genre is. So whatever "links" you were going to provide us with to "prove us wrong", will be just as meaningless as this thread.[/QUOTE]

Interpretations don't mean diddly-squat if they are wrong. I could say that the Bible is telling me to go kill all the people in Israel, because thats how I interpret it, but I'd still be wrong, because thats not what it says.

They are not meaningless. They are very informative.

[QUOTE=whatthedeath?!?]Interpretations don't mean diddly-squat if they are wrong. I could say that the Bible is telling me to go kill all the people in Israel, because thats how I interpret it, but I'd still be wrong, because thats not what it says.

They are not meaningless. They are very informative.[/QUOTE]

But if thats how you interpret the bible, you are in the minority. Most people will agree that there are waves and know what I am talking about. Most people know what I mean by ska-punk. Not many people know where ska-core comes from, but my description comes from hard-core, which I where the core part of ska-core comes from. Many use ska-core as a substitute for ska-punk, as if there is no difference. There is.

Jas, you are being to accepting. The terms we use here are generally accepted by the majority of people (except perhaps ska-core) and all you are doing is calling them meaningless and lies without any backing information. I put a lot of time into this a while ago, and I hate to be wrong. Nothing in the information section comes from less than two sources. I did research and I saw nothing anywhere that indicated that waves simply didn't exist.

is Leftover Crack Ska?

Overall, they are punk, but they do have ska songs

[QUOTE=Kithkin]But if thats how you interpret the bible, you are in the minority. Most people will agree that there are waves and know what I am talking about. Most people know what I mean by ska-punk. Not many people know where ska-core comes from, but my description comes from - , which I where the core part of ska-core comes from. Many use ska-core as a substitute for ska-punk, as if there is no difference. There is.

Jas, you are being to accepting. The terms we use here are generally accepted by the majority of people (except perhaps ska-core) and all you are doing is calling them meaningless and lies without any backing information. I put a lot of time into this a while ago, and I hate to be wrong. Nothing in the information section comes from less than two sources. I did research and I saw nothing anywhere that indicated that waves simply didn't exist.[/QUOTE]

If the majority of people are wrong, it doesn't make it correct, or right.

Ska history is probably one of the most muddled, and incorrectly-correct topics in the world today. EVERYBODY has it wrong. Everybody thinks that ska started in the 60's. By one man, or one group. Depending on who you talk to, it will be about 10 different men or groups. Your theory on Ernest Ranglin is the first I read about him being the first to record a ska song. I've also heard that The Skatalites were the first, or Tommy McCook and Lloyd Knibb, or Prince Buster, or Laurel Aitken, or that Don Drummond paid a couple of musicians to play something he was working on, and all of these sound like very real possiblilities. The fact is, I have no clue who it really was, but since most of these people were in The Skatalites at one time, and they were the first nationally famous group, I credit them with being the first.

Another fact that has nothing to do with your post is that ska actually started in about 1956.

I'm going to go back on what I said before. Sure waves exist, but they are redundant. They are amero-centric. They are also pointless.

Here, this will make you do the work, but the links can be found at . . /forum. Do a search for threads called "Reel Big Fish Is Ska", and "Waves Do Not Exist". Read through those. They are very long, but very informative, and will go into much greater detail than I ever could've.

P.S. Yes, I am also whatthedeat?!? on that forum.

[QUOTE=whatthedeath?!?]I've also heard that The Skatalites were the first, or Tommy McCook and Lloyd Knibb, or Prince Buster, or Laurel Aitken, or that Don Drummond paid a couple of musicians to play something he was working on, and all of these sound like very real possiblilities. The fact is, I have no clue who it really was, but since most of these people were in The Skatalites at one time, and they were the first nationally famous group, I credit them with being the first.[/QUOTE]

I actually just found a really cool page. Well, thats a lie. I knew about it, but never took the time to read it, but after I typed this, I saw it and had to read it. It answers the question as to who came up with the ska beat.

[url]http://incolor.inetnebr.com/cvanpelt/knibb.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Kithkin]Jas, you are being to accepting. The terms we use here are generally accepted by the majority of people (except perhaps ska-core) and all you are doing is calling them meaningless and lies without any backing information. I put a lot of time into this a while ago, and I hate to be wrong. Nothing in the information section comes from less than two sources. I did research and I saw nothing anywhere that indicated that waves simply didn't exist.[/QUOTE]

Kith, I know you put a lot of effort into this. But I'm just saying, some of the punk etc. stuff I read on here is ultimately "wrong" in the eyes of other sites I read. I love this site for ska, which is pretty much the only reason I keep coming back. You guys are excellent, great people, so what does it matter if we are right or wrong anyway? What matters is we actually care about the music, and (I hope) always will.



Ok, so I'm drunk, but I think I will stand by what I just said in the morning.

Say First, Second or Third wave to anyone who is down with the ska and he/she will know what you're talking about.

[QUOTE=the-UK-ska-scene]so what does it matter if we are right or wrong anyway? What matters is we actually care about the music, and (I hope) always will.[/QUOTE]


I know that this wasn't directed at me, but the reason I'm saying this stuff is because I care about the music, and I figure if you're going to care about something, its only natural to learn about it, and educate people who have the wrong idea about it.

[QUOTE=Kithkin]Listen to the World Inferno Friendship Society. If only for the awsome name.

[url]http://www.myspace.com/worldinferno[/url][/QUOTE]
Thank you, kithkin! I'm absolutely loving this music! I wish they were coming to the US.

It says they're from Brooklyn.

[QUOTE=whatthedeath?!?]It says they're from Brooklyn.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but they're touring in europe right now.

Why do I always forget about this thread :(

Hey, everybody go to [url]http://myspace.com/sauce[/url] and tell me what you think of these guys.

I like it

If ya want a real good listen Check out The Johnstones, Their a really good local Toronto Band.
[url]http://www.purevolume.com/thejohnstones[/url]

Ok so I've heard about a rumoured tour happening this summer with Tomas Kalnoky, Dan Potthast, and Sean P. Rogan going out and doing their solo thang....... That would be seriously the best tour ever, you Americans are so lucky :eek:

[QUOTE=PaintSteveGreen]If ya want a real good listen Check out The Johnstones, Their a really good local Toronto Band.
[url]http://www.purevolume.com/thejohnstones[/url][/QUOTE]

The Johnstones are great, I saw them in Sarnia a month or two back when they played Ska Thaw here, it was a great show.

[QUOTE=the-UK-ska-scene]Ok so I've heard about a rumoured tour happening this summer with Tomas Kalnoky, Dan Potthast, and Sean P. Rogan going out and doing their solo thang....... That would be seriously the best tour ever, you Americans are so lucky :eek:[/QUOTE]

...Is it a bad thing that I have no idea who those guys are? Except that Dan Potthast sounds really familiar?

Dan Potthast is the frontman for Mu330 (I had to look it up). He has 2 cds of his own material and is the only one of the three that has toured on his own before.

Thomas Kalnoky is the singer from Catch 22/Streetlight Manifesto/Bandits of the Acoustic Revolution

Sean Rogan is the guitarist from Big D and the Kids Table (also had to look up). He's has a degree in music education from Berkely which is interesting.


What forum were you talking about? SEarching for ../ forum doesn't turn up anything.

[QUOTE=Kithkin]Dan Potthast is the frontman for Mu330 (I had to look it up). He has 2 cds of his own material and is the only one of the three that has toured on his own before.

Thomas Kalnoky is the singer from Catch 22/Streetlight Manifesto/Bandits of the Acoustic Revolution

Sean Rogan is the guitarist from Big D and the Kids Table (also had to look up). He's has a degree in music education from Berkely which is interesting.


What forum were you talking about? SEarching for ../ forum doesn't turn up anything.[/QUOTE]

Oh no wonder Dan Potthast sounds familiar. I almost went to a concert where he was performing. Someone told me that Mu330 sucked and Catch 22 is horrible live, so I skipped it. :lol:

Does it only show up as two periods? Or is that just my computer? If thats what it is, then that means that my stupid computer is even stupider than I thought.

I'll get on from the school, where it isn't so lame, and I'll give you the links.

Catch 22 hasn't had thomas as the lead singer for years. I wouldn't say they suck live, but they aren't nearly as impressive as Streetlight Manifesto. Mu330 has a lot of sh[size=2]i[/size]tty songs that they play live. They also have a lot of amazing songs that they don't play live. Why they do that, I don't know.

Dan Potthast (by himself) is good live. He was really funny and since it was a small club he got in the of the crowd and talked to everyone

Sorry guys I assumed everyone would know who they were... Looking back on it I'm a 'tard. I missed Dan Potthast when I was here, I was very annoyed but that's just the way it goes. He played Brighton Punk Rocks, which would've been excellent with him there.

I also missed MU330 a couple of times when they've played, always been at bad times or in bad places. Like I was in a shop once when MU330 walked in, because they were playing nearby that night. But I had to go home before the show, I was kicking myself.

Seeing Sean Rogan would be ace, too, Big D is special. One of my favourite bands, but I've never seen them. (Despite having guestlist, and an interview, I suck at life.)

And seeing Tomas. Well. It's Tomas. I would.... That would be....... Just...... Tomas.


Wow.

I saw Ska Cubano last night. They were amazing.

Chris Murray asked to be my friend on myspace. I felt loved:)

Also, [URL=http://www.adamrichman.com/]Adam Richman[/URL] and [URL=http://wholewheatbread.net/]Whole Wheat Bread[/URL] are opening for Streetlight Manifesto in the next few days/weeks. Though neither are ska, both are rather good. WWB is an all black pop punk trio and Adam Richman is a solo indiepop artist.


So now I really hope that if I get my new job (at lowes) I'll be able to go to either the 5/31 or 6/1 show (or both).

Streetlight won't come to the Northwest for sooooooo long

[QUOTE=Manifesto de Streetlight site]so the dates are up for our three week northeast american (and canadian) tour with gym class heroes and whole wheat bread. [B]as for the rest of the country, fear not, we'll be seeing you a bit later, in the very beginning of the fall.[/B][/QUOTE]

Peter, there ya go. God bless 'em.

I can't believe this is the last EGN tour, it seems like the end of an era that only just started for us Brits! What I'd give to see the remaining few tracks I haven't seen thus far from that album live. Looking more remote, now, though. I want to see Failing, Flailing :upset:

Such an amazing band. I received all the artwork for A Call To Arms yesterday which someone lovingly scanned in, I want that CD so much. After seeing that art, I'm even more in awe of Tomas for writing all the music and words for that band, and doing all the art himself as well. He's one in a trillion, I tell thee!!

[QUOTE=Kithkin]Chris Murray asked to be my friend on myspace. [/QUOTE]
Ditto.

Big D...this weekend hopefully. and Streetlight Manifesto sometime in July or June?

Can someone explain to me what [I]Keasby Nights 2[/I] is?

Yeah, what the funk is up with the Manifesto's new album? No news nowhere makes the Sweboy go schrazy.