tectactoe
10.09.19 | Preemptively: Yes, I think FIGHT CLUB is one of the most overrated films of all time. Doesn't mean I don't like/enjoy it to some degree, it means I think its intelligence and cultural importance is massively overvalued.
Also @Wines: Sorry dude, Van Sant is next I promise. Having trouble finding a good copy of Promised Land (last one!). Figured this would fill the time in between. |
ArsMoriendi
10.09.19 | Only seen 10, 7, 5, and 2, and I probably like 7 most.
2 is good, but way overhyped. |
fogza
10.09.19 | I also think the game is a massively underrated film. Hated se7en though. Props for not trashing Alien 3, which had tons of flaws but still better than people think. |
tectactoe
10.09.19 | Yeah, I'm more baffled at how much of a consensus "masterpiece" people consider Cameron's ALIENS to be. Absolute rubbish, imo, steering the franchise (that didn't need to be franchised in the first place!) in an antithetical direction. |
fogza
10.09.19 | Lol, I love Aliens. I think it's one of the most expertly paced, nail biting never let up thrillers I've ever seen. But I liked Alien 3 for different reasons. |
tectactoe
10.09.19 | Haha, fair enough. I suppose I can see *why* people like it, it's just totally not my thing. Same reason I love THE TERMINATOR but think TERMINATOR 2: JUDGMENT DAY kind of stinks. |
Josh D.
10.09.19 | this is a good-faith question: does anyone with this much thought into movies enjoy them less because of it? Example: when people point out plot holes, I think "huh, didn't notice that". And now that I know it, it sorta ruins the movie a bit for me.
I've always thought GwtDT is unfairly maligned. Maybe I'm just a sucker for Fincher's style like a lot of people.
I'd love to know the plot contrivances you have with Gone Girl. I'm not over the moon about it, but I think I've seen it twice and enjoyed it both times.
I agree with you about the acting in The Social Network, don't think there's anythign special about Panic Room, and Zodiac is very underrated (not just in his catalog, just in movies in general). |
bigguytoo9
10.09.19 | I own most of these. I thought Brad Pitt was really good in Button. |
Egarran
10.09.19 | Panic Room that high? Haven't seen it in ages, but I remember it as mediocre.
Around that time I also saw Fight Club and I was more or less the archetype of who that movie is targeting. So that has to be 1 for me.
I'd put Alien 3 last. It's basically only good because it has a Xenomorph and Weaver. |
Larkinhill
10.09.19 | Alien 3 is so underrated, though I think Gone Girl and Dragon Tattoo are superior (you have Tattoo WAY too low, imo).
Agreed with Ben Button being last. Not a bad movie, but kindof bland and dull for Fincher.
I love The Game, but wouldnât put it that high.zodiac is absolutely number 1 and Seven is number two so you got those right. The Social Network would probably round out my top 3 â though if Mindhunter were included in the ranking (though I understand why itâs not), that would be my number 3. |
Clumseee
10.09.19 | The Social Network > Benjamin Button > Gone Girl > Fight Club > Zodiac > Se7en > Panic Room > Dragon Tattoo (Haven't seen The Game or Alien 3) |
tectactoe
10.09.19 | 'Panic Room that high? Haven't seen it in ages, but I remember it as mediocre.'
It's got.....problems (Leto lmao) and a lot of blatant narrative knotting, but as a superficial thriller, it really ain't bad; much of that is due to Fincher's shooting style (dismal, sleek, efficient) and a really good teen-performance from K-Stew. Though maybe I had a similar effect to you -- I saw it not long after it came out and didn't really care for it. The second (and only other) time I saw it was about two years ago; I went into it expecting mediocrity and came out pleasantly surprised.
@Josh: I hate being "plot hole guy" because, truthfully, little narrative conveniences are usually not nearly as problematic as people act, and sometimes a bit of suspended disbelief is necessary to manufacture good drama. It only bugs me when the film is clearly operating within a realm of realism (meaning, it's not supposed to be intentionally expressionistic, or surreal, or psychologically heightened, etc.) and includes several gigantic leaps of faith, usually involving carelessness or illogical decisions that the established characters would most likely not make. Again, one of these is sometimes passable, but imo GONE GIRL has way too many. Anyway, here's what I wrote about it last time I saw it, which has some of those things in more detail:
https://letterboxd.com/tectactoe/film/gone-girl/ |
tectactoe
10.09.19 | 'Alien 3 is so underrated, though I think Gone Girl and Dragon Tattoo are superior (you have Tattoo WAY too low, imo).'
If Tattoo were trimmed of (most of) the Daniel Craig parts, it'd be significantly higher. Mara is great, and her scene of sodomy is probably the most visceral/intense of its kind since Noe's IRREVERSIBLE. Found myself inversely bored whenever Craig was on-screen. |
fogza
10.09.19 | GG was utter shit, so I agree with 9. Tattoo was so much weaker than the original movie, and totally unnecessary |
Rik VII
10.09.19 | I'm afraid I won't be able to add too much to the conversation since my opinion of Fincher as an artist is not all that flowery, but ...
1) I think Fight Club is a really good and often misunderstood film. Maybe it deserved to be misunderstood, since it's good enough at trying to be "cool" that enough people bought into it. Those are the most annoying aspects of the film, and I know that they are all deconstructed in one way or the other, but you still have to sit through two thirds of the film with Durden being the edgy Ăbermensch asshole and that can be kind of a pain. But like I said, it is a good film and I really like editing.
2) Seven will forever be one of those infamous "well done but no substance whatsoever" films for me. Sure, it has iconic moments, but it's so monotonous and boring and annoying for an unjustifiably long time, it just doesn't pay off. The last half an hour is pretty amazing, but before that the whole film is moving in circles for three fourths of its duration. It's immensely off-putting.
Haven't seen Zodiac yet. It's been the most interesting of those I haven't seen for years now, but I can't get myself to watch it. I'm just so averse to Fincher's way of showing the people, worlds and events in his films that I never like the thought of two or more hours of that kind any more. |
tectactoe
10.09.19 | 'Haven't seen Zodiac yet. It's been the most interesting of those I haven't seen for years now, but I can't get myself to watch it. I'm just so averse to Fincher's way of showing the people, worlds and events in his films that I never like the thought of two or more hours of that kind any more.'
If it makes you feel any better, I'm not a huge Fincher guy, either, but ZODIAC is head-and-shoulders above everything else he's done imo. So even not being an advocate of his work in general, there's a chance you'll come out of that one impressed. Maybe. |
Josh D.
10.09.19 | If you want to put aside the Fincher aspect, you should at least see Zodiac since some other movies about it are really weird, and he made a compelling movie about a true story of newspaper cartoonist that solved his ciphers and studied the case for years. It includes real events and people. And it has Mark Ruffalo in all kinds of drip. |
tectactoe
10.09.19 | Plus the way Ruffalo snarfs down cheeseburgers gets me hot and bothered. |
Egarran
10.09.19 | I love Se7en. It's so heavy.
The catching-a-killer aspect is not super exciting, but it's got so much atmosphere. |
Josh D.
10.09.19 | I read some of your Gone Girl criticism. I think the main things I'd agree with are the burning of the diary and not investigating the lake house after Amy returns. The other things before that I think aren't a big deal or can be explained within the context of the movie.
I'm not a big movie person, so I don't think about even those big things. I just watch and listen and then the movie is over. |
Egarran
10.09.19 | What are your favorites of all time, Josh? |
tectactoe
10.09.19 | My wife read the book and said it was much better; I assume a lot of my grievances are rooted in the visual presentation of the material and that my imagination would serve better into my own credulousness. |
granitenotebook
10.09.19 | josh i'd have to assume its similar to music, where understanding it on a deeper level leads to more dismissal of early interests but also deeper enjoyment and more exploration |
granitenotebook
10.09.19 | also tec these lists are extremely good, please keep making them |
Larkinhill
10.09.19 | Rik â watch Zodiac NOW man. One of my top ten movies ever. |
Larkinhill
10.09.19 | also tec these lists are extremely good, please keep making them (2) |
Larkinhill
10.09.19 | Canât believe people are dumping on Seven. Itâs a brilliant masterpiece. A classic. That movie was so HUGE when it came out man, everybody was talking about it.
And I thought Gone Girl was great. Iâm a huge Fincher fan though, one of my favorite directors. |
Josh D.
10.09.19 | âWhat are your favorites of all time, Josh?â
I grew up a comedy nerd over FILM. That being said, Iâve always loved The Shining, No Country, Airplane, Inglourious Basterds, There Will Be Blood, Eyes Wide Shut...those are the off the top ones |
Calc
10.09.19 | "this is a good-faith question: does anyone with this much thought into movies enjoy them less because of it?"
I wonder this too, but I feel if you start watching movies through the lens of plot devices, story holes, and narrative leaps (aka nitpicking) it would just kind of make the experience in general tiresome after a while. and that's how movie snobs are born, constantly searching for the movies who's plot devices and narrative leaps are harder to catch. some people may say you gain a deeper appreciation of the art this way and more power to them. it's similar to people who listen to music with the primary intention of reviewing it. it comes across when reading the review and makes the whole thing seem kinda fake. |
Josh D.
10.09.19 | I definitely get it from like a hobby angle, like if youâre passionate about it. I only ask because when I watch Cinefix videos and they say stuff like âthis over the shoulder shot with a wide angle lens makes the actors appear further away from each other, showing how theyâve grown apart over the course of the filmâ and I just think âomg just watch the movieâ. I certainly would like to know more than less about things in general, but Iâm trying to listen to the dialogue and all that. I do notice some things though, like the tavern basement scene in Inglourious Basterds makes good use of angles to emphasize focus and relationships. |
Faraudo
10.09.19 | Alien 3 over Gone Girl and TGWTDT lmao.
1 is definitely 1 tho, good to see it here. |
RadioSuicide
10.10.19 | yesssss zodiac fucking rules. also agree with your opinion of fight club, for the most part. pretty overrated. |
Rowan5215
10.10.19 | Zodiac is goddamn good, probably the best RDJ performance ever (and Gylenhaal is the man but we all know that)
"Latter-half (esp. the final twenty minutes) gets excessively silly, borderline inane, but this is a shockingly serviceable film for a majority of its runtime. Psychosexual angle was interesting, but severely underplayed."
I agree with all this but the Assembly Cut goes a loooong way towards repairing all the damage the studio wrought on Fincher's version - worth a watch if you haven't seen it |
Winesburgohio
10.10.19 | @this list: yes.
@assembly cut of Alien 3 ruling and Aliens drooling: yes.
Zodiac deals with the theme of obsession probably better than anything i've seen (probably)
|
ramon.
10.10.19 | 1 is the only fincher film i willingly return to so good list |
hal1ax
10.10.19 | dude fuck yes.. zodiac! underrated movie fasho |
hal1ax
10.10.19 | and ye 1 and 2 are the only fincher films with serious replay value for me |
Source
10.10.19 | love the game. not a fan of the others i've seen |
Source
10.10.19 | also alien 3 is the worst movie ever made |
Larkinhill
10.10.19 | Tectactoe â Iâm assuming you watched the Assembly/directors Cut of Alien 3? For anyone who hasnât, you need to check it out. Itâs legit almost a great film. The only bomb in the series is Resurrection (but even that has its moments). |
Larkinhill
10.10.19 | Ok, Iâll attempt this. Difficult since Fincher is one of my favorite directors, but...
Zodiac (tectac, this isnât just CLOSE to a masterpiece. Itâs an absolute masterpiece of the highest order)
Seven
The Social Network
Dragon Tattoo
Gone Girl
The Game
Fight Club
Panic Room
Alien 3
Ben Button (only film of his I donât dig) |
fogza
10.10.19 | "Canât believe people are dumping on Seven."
Seven is like pretentious Saw. The Game is actually a pretty great movie. Fincher is so hit and miss.
|
Rik VII
10.10.19 | Regarding the debate about the details/nerd stuff oriented film watching, I think there's something that's been missed in this discussion, and that's the subconscious effect these things have on the viewer's perception of situations/characters/places etc. It's not just intellectual nuggets for nitpickers, it's things that shape the experience of the film, and your brain notices them even if you don't, and your brain also might notice that something's off if you don't. Noticing and discussing these things is not as much about finding new things about the movie, but exploring one's own reaction to it. Paying more attention to the little cinematographic things sure made me understand my own reactions and opinions better and I feel it made me "listen closer" to what it has to say on a deeper level, which is definitely something I enjoy thinking about, though opinions obviously differ on that. It's not about showing how sophisticated you are, it's about paying attention to what you feel and knowing where it comes from. It definitely made me watch films more "intensely" and made watching them more rewarding. My experience, of course. |
Larkinhill
10.10.19 | Dude, Seven set the standard. I like Saw quite a bit, but it is incredibly derivative of Seven.
If you were around when Seven was released, it was a fucking barnstormer. Incredibly shocking and dark. And the fucking ending man. It really rattled people.
Seven is not overrated in the slightest. It is an incredible movie and towers above the genre, with Silence of the Lambs beside it. |
ramon.
10.10.19 | :pogchamp: |
fogza
10.10.19 | I was mostly definitely around when seven was released, and as with the usual suspects, I found it puzzling as to why anyone thought it was good. |
Larkinhill
10.10.19 | Donât know what to tell you guys. Iâm sorry maybe? For being dead inside? That would suck. |
Egarran
10.10.19 | DW, you are correct, Larkin.
Its popularity is not exactly puzzling to most people. 8.6/10 |
fogza
10.10.19 | "Its popularity is not exactly puzzling to most people. 8.6/10"
I'm glad they liked it. Give me the Abominable Dr Phibes any day, at least it doesn't take itself seriously and it's honest about its intentions - to provide audiences with some gratuitous, gross murders. It doesn't need to hide behind some earnest "meditation on evil" claptrap. |
Egarran
10.10.19 | You still don't get it: It's a good movie. Failing to acknowledge that is all you. |
fogza
10.10.19 | So tell me what was so profound about the finale of seven (because the first 2/3 was characters running around achieving zilch). I'd like someone to explain what was so clever about it. |
tectactoe
10.10.19 | @Larkin - yes, I've seen and prefer the Assembly Cut; in this ranking I considered the original, theatrical cut, but honestly I don't think it would just a spot if I were to rank the Assembly Cut. (Despite it being improved in many ways.)
@Rik - well said, and granitenotebook hit on another good point. Film is similar to music (is similar to [any other form of art]) in that deep understanding of the context, the construction, the layers, etc., can enrich your experience with it and eventually encourage you to branch out and see/listen to things you otherwise wouldn't have seen/listened to. In that way, it's not that you begin to "hate" things that are putatively 'simple', you just start to like other things *more*, and those things can (and will) change your enjoyment of specific things with time. As an example, when I was 15-years-old (or sometime in high school,), Saving Private Ryan was one of my all time favorites. It's simply not anymore. And it's not that I suddenly think it's crap because it's "popular" or whatever, but I wasn't a cinephile (at all) when I was fifteen; and the catalog of movies I've seen *now* is at least twenty times as large, meaning I have twenty times as many *other* films to compare it against, all of which have honed my tastes re specific themes, forms, tactics, or whatever else, meaning the way I value SPR is considerably different now than it was fifteen years ago. |
Egarran
10.10.19 | > I'd like someone to explain what was so clever about it.
Spoilers: The killer had it all planned out for years, which becomes clear at the end and makes it all extra evil. Also he recognized his own sin, which is clever.
The contents of that box was hardcore af. _Nobody_ saw it coming. Poor Brad, he was such an innocent dude.
But I have a slight suspicion that any amount of analysis will not sway your mind. |
fogza
10.10.19 | To be fair, you're correct. I didn't find the ending really had much impact or signified anything. Twist movies struggle for replay value and nothing else in the movie earns it. |
tectactoe
10.10.19 | Spacey randomly and unexpectedly showing up 105 minutes into the movie was a huge deal at the time, too. No "major" star appearance had been concealed so well, to my mind. |
fogza
10.10.19 | But does that make the movie good? Call me boring but a shadowy, non present antagonist usually detracts from an adversarial film. Not always, but in this case it felt VERY random. |
Larkinhill
10.10.19 | Whatâs in the box, whatâs in the box?!?
That scene/sequence is among the finest endings of all time. Incredibly iconic and a gut wrenching gut punch. |
Larkinhill
10.10.19 | Spacey randomly and unexpectedly showing up 105 minutes into the movie was a huge deal at the time, too. No "major" star appearance had been concealed so well, to my mind.
Yep, very true also. He wasnât listed in the cast either from what I recall. |
Larkinhill
10.10.19 | Call me boring but a shadowy, non present antagonist usually detracts from an adversarial film. Not always, but in this case it felt VERY random.
I would actually argue the exact opposite. The mystery and intrigue surrounding him due to the uncertainty of his identity made him much scarier and mysterious. |
fogza
10.10.19 | Larkin, don't you find the earlier gross out murders a tad overdone and absurd? |
tectactoe
10.10.19 | 'But does that make the movie good? Call me boring but a shadowy, non present antagonist usually detracts from an adversarial film. Not always, but in this case it felt VERY random.'
It doesn't necessarily make the movie itself good, but it can make that particular experience of *watching* it good. Let's not forget that our feelings toward a film is entirely a product of *that specific experience* of watching it. Yes, if you carry on and read extensively about the film afterward, you can grow to appreciate it more (or less), and they can always gain or lose momentum in your memory over time, but our feelings toward the movie (same with music) is largely influenced by the cumulative experience -- who we saw it with, when we saw it, our mood/tastes at that time in history, etc.
I've seen so many movies in theaters and then again years later at home and had drastically different feelings based on the setting alone (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse). So if you were around to see SE7EN when it was new and were genuinely taken aback by the Spacey reveal, its an element of that specific experience that heightens the overall experience. And, in many cases, even though that initial shock is obviously gone, the excitement of that initial experience still lingers upon future revisits. It gets attached to our memory of the movie and we might always estimate it a bit higher because we had a good experience with it.
Not always, but you get my point. |
Josh D.
10.10.19 | The Spacey reveal is great, he was a huge star by then. They didn't have him on the poster, at junkets, nada, and then boom. And then him winning in the end seals the twist, I didn't think this movie was so polarizing for that reason. |
wham49
10.10.19 | Zodiak, 7, and fight club are his best |
fogza
10.10.19 | I guess I'm gonna have to let it go. But I don't like to!!! *grumpy* |
grannypantys
10.10.19 | Alien 3 needs the George Lucas effect. Get Fincher and some CG artists to go back and re-edit the film. With a little elbow grease it could be a lot better. |
JoeTex
10.10.19 | great list. zodiac awesome. unmatched tension esp in that basement scene. |
tectactoe
10.11.19 | Yeah, the way the murder scene(s) are done is super eerie as well. |
Josh D.
10.11.19 | I hate when I'm trying to relax at Lake Berryessa and a hooded menace approaches. |
Larkinhill
10.11.19 | Larkin, don't you find the earlier gross out murders a tad overdone and absurd?
On the contrary, I found them very creative and clever.
|
tectactoe
10.11.19 | especially the death by spaghetti |
Rik VII
10.11.19 | The deaths in Seven are among the most stupid and overdone things I've seen. But like I said, I like the ending. |
tectactoe
10.11.19 | don't act like you didn't jump when the dilapidated fellow on the bed turned out to be alive, though |
Egarran
10.11.19 | "Nah I totally saw that coming." |
Rik VII
10.11.19 | It was a moment of scowling and thinking "you just had to do it, did you". There's nothing impressive about drawing the "he's still alive after all, isn't that gruesome" card. There's also the case of a prostitute having been fucked to death which is fucking laughable and not shocking at all, but straight-up failed comedy.
Now I always feel I have to emphasize that I don't hate the film and think it's well done and has great moments. The moments I talk about right now are exactly those few that I genuinely thought were pubertal trash. |
Larkinhill
10.11.19 | Hmm. Totally disagree. Shit was pretty disturbing at the time. |
tectactoe
10.11.19 | Might be my second favorite jump scar (a tactic i usually hate). Number one is from JAWS. |
Larkinhill
10.11.19 | Yeah itâs a damn good one. The Exorcist III has a great one as well â the nurse with scissors. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.11.19 | i havent seen The Game, Zodiac, or Aliens 3 (might have seen this when i was young), but out of everything I have seen Gone Girl is my easy fav, Social Network and Panic Room at the bottom |
tectactoe
10.11.19 | High rec ZODIAC, i think youâll definitely dig it |
hal1ax
10.11.19 | yea dude check zodiac.
and yea i also wasn't too keen on social network. thought it was pretty overrated. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.11.19 | didn't even know Zodiac was Fincher until this list tbh, will watch
didn't finish social netweork tbh, was so bored |
Josh D.
10.11.19 | Now that I think about it, Zodiac is one of Robert Downey Jr.s most underrated performances |
tectactoe
10.11.19 | Yeah heâs very good in it. Ruffalo owns though. |
Josh D.
10.12.19 | The Aqua Velva bit makes me laugh, the scene on his house boat is so good, he plays a good descent into his addictions. |
EyesWideShut
10.12.19 | Dragon Tattoo is top 3 Finch imo.. Love that flick. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | It was good, I've heard the original is better tho |
Larkinhill
10.12.19 | Zodiac is a top 10 all time movie for me. Never gets old. Ruffalo, Downey and Gyllenhaal all fucking kill it. |
Larkinhill
10.12.19 | The Aqua Velva bit makes me laugh
Okay, this can no longer be ignored. What is that youâre drinking?
Aqua Velva. You wouldnât laugh if you tried it.
Legit one of the funniest movie scenes for me. My buddies used to get drunk and watch this and crack up at that scene, among others.
âOh. Because you went to the libraryâ.
â...rummaging through wastebaskets. Am I being unkind?!
Not to mention Ruffalo with his animal crackers. Definitely many funny scenes and lines without detracting from the atmosphere of the movie. |
Larkinhill
10.12.19 | Dragon Tattoo is top 3 Finch imo.. Love that flicK
Not sure if itâs top 3 for me, but itâs an amazing 4 out of 4 star movie for me. I am admittedly a Fincher fanboy. |
Egarran
10.12.19 | The Swedish version is definitely worth watching. |
tectactoe
10.12.19 | THE GAME also very under-appreciated |
Larkinhill
10.12.19 | Very much so. Great movie. |
fogza
10.12.19 | The Swedish one owns. The casting is great on both leads. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | didnt they make yet another one with another new lead? |
tectactoe
10.12.19 | I think they were "sequels", weren't they? I haven't seen them. But, like, THE GIRL ON THE TRAIN and all that, aren't they supposed to be continuations of TGWTDT? |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | Wiki says the new one (girl in the spiders web) is both a soft reboot and a sequel to Fincher's. Dunno anything about the actress taking over |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | As for the swedish ones ya they start with their own TGWTDT and then they made at least two sequels |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | I don't think girl on the train is related tho |
tectactoe
10.12.19 | Oh i guess i just assumed based on the title âThe Girl [preposition] The [noun]â haha |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | Haha I mean, fair enough |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | Maybe the girl with all the gifts is secretly part of an extended universe as well |
tectactoe
10.12.19 | lmao |
Larkinhill
10.12.19 | The Girl on the Train was sorta trashy, but not bad at all. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | That's how I feel about Emily blunt's face |
tectactoe
10.12.19 | can't take her seriously ever since she married jim from the office |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.12.19 | I cant believe they make actual movies with jim from the office |
tectactoe
10.13.19 | sad, innit?
i've yet to see one that was good. |
Source
10.13.19 | the game is one of the most underrated movies ever |
Larkinhill
10.13.19 | A Quiet Place was awesome. I think thereâs more to Jim than you give him credit for. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.13.19 | it was ok i just dont understand how Jim went from scranton to the woods, divorced pam, got remarried and had several children, built a farm, and lost his entire personality in the gap between the final season of the office and the alien apocalypse |
Larkinhill
10.13.19 | Heâs superhuman. Not on our level brah. |
fogza
10.13.19 | The Swedish sequels are ok-ish, but I think the first movie is miles ahead. The sequels separate the two leads into independent storylines which makes them less interesting. |
Larkinhill
10.13.19 | Havenât seen the Swedish versions. My introduction and simultaneously sole exposure to the series is Fincherâs remake. Could be why I consider it a masterpiece.
I have a really difficult time believing the original is better. I mean, this is fucking Fincher. Is it really THAT good? How good are the sequels? |
fogza
10.13.19 | The Swedish one is better cast. Michael Nyqist is far more appropriate in the Blomkvist role, he's as compelling as Rapace, who is completely convincing. Their chemistry sells the movie. |
fogza
10.13.19 | As I said, the sequels are a step down though, but entertaining enough. |
Egarran
10.13.19 | I can confirm fogza's research. |
fogza
10.13.19 | To be honest Larkin, Fincher is a fairly average director to me. FC is a great movie that loses a bit on repeat viewing. TG and SN are good, and A3 is not bad, in a sort of lovable flawed way. Haven't seen Zodiac. The rest are disposable. |
Egarran
10.13.19 | How do you compare him to Nolan? |
Chambered79
10.13.19 | Agree with 1, zodiac is so fucking good |
fogza
10.13.19 | I prefer Nolan. I like his aesthetic more, and the highs are higher. There are lows but at least he's never made a movie that I dislike as much as GG or 7. |
Chambered79
10.13.19 | Fincher be better |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.13.19 | Nolan is one of my absolute least favourite directors of all time. Tragic comparing Fincher to that hack |
fogza
10.13.19 | Fincher has two movies I'd maybe watch more than once at this point, and 3 that I'm actually sorry I saw. Nolan wins. |
Egarran
10.13.19 | They're often compared, but I also prefer Fincher. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.13.19 | Nolan has zero movies I'd watch more than once at this point, and 6 that i"m actually sorry i saw. fincher wins. |
Egarran
10.13.19 | I just saw he co-wrote Man Of Steel. Worst person ever, I shall never mention him again. |
Larkinhill
10.14.19 | I actually love Nolan and Fincher, but Fincher trumps Nolan for me, no contest.
The Prestige is Nolanâs The Game. Both very underrated and overlooked films in their filmographies, as well as being similar in regards to the plots being based on a twist and manipulating the audience. |
tectactoe
10.14.19 | Nolan has created one truly great film - MEMENTO. Everything else I could do without, honestly. |
Winesburgohio
10.14.19 | Nolan has created one truly great film - INSOMNIA. Everything else I could |
Winesburgohio
10.14.19 | actually The Prestige and Batman Begins are pretty good!!!! |
heyadam
10.14.19 | Gone Girl is fantastic. |
fogza
10.14.19 | Hmm. I'm in the minority I guess. If I had to rate the movies I've seen of these two out of 10, it would look like this for Nolan:
FOLLOWING N/A
INCEPTION 8
DUNKIRK 8
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES 7
BATMAN BEGINSÂ 7
THE PRESTIGE 6.5
THE DARK KNIGHT 6
MEMENTO 6
INSOMNIA 5
INTERSTELLAR 3
|
fogza
10.14.19 | And this for Fincher:
ZODIACÂ N/A
FIGHT CLUB 8
THE GAME 7
ALIEN 3 6
THE SOCIAL NETWORK 6
THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO 5
PANIC ROOM 5
SE7EN 3
THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON 2
GONE GIRLÂ 2
|
fogza
10.14.19 | Although I did like Fight Club at the time, and I think the Prestige / The Game are pretty good movies, I think this shows I don't rate the twist ending as highly as a device. Perhaps that's why I see things the way I do, as Fincher leans / relies on it slightly more heavily than Nolan. |
Rowan5215
10.14.19 | Batman Begins rules agreed, just a very watchable comfy film for me. easy best of that trilogy |
Larkinhill
10.14.19 | Fogza, you crazy baby. I canât grasp those ratings at all. |
Larkinhill
10.14.19 | Batman Begins rules agreed, just a very watchable comfy film for me. easy best of that trilogy
Yeah itâs good but TDK is a great film. Canât believe some of you. Ledger was iconic and jaw droppingly good. Hoe old were you guys when it came out? Sometimes have to remind myself that some of you guys are super young (Iâm 37 so yeah, if youâre younger than 21, youâre a kid for me)
|
Winesburgohio
10.14.19 | i posit this a lot to the ire of what friends i have left but: se7en and zodiac are, in many ways, polar opposite films. consider the bright, saturated light of zodiac vs. the grim black and white noir of 7, the way that obsession is presented as a noble good vs. a damage to the psyche, but most importantly: se7en gives us answers but so closure. zodiac doesn't give us answers but does deliver closure. i consider the pair a ying and yang in that way, and think Zodiac is a much more "mature" film because of it |
fogza
10.14.19 | Larkin, I'm older than you if that helps. TDK has a fantastic performance and a great first half. It gets muddled and messy as the film progresses, with a heavy handed, clumsy finale. |
fogza
10.14.19 | Eckhart is good as dent, weak as two face, with some terrible CG. All the soapboxing at the end is cringeworthy, even Oldman struggles to sell it. And Gylenhaal is atrocious. |
Rowan5215
10.14.19 | "Ledger was iconic and jaw droppingly good" yes he was, and the movie suffers every time he's not on screen because of it. about 20-25 minutes of that movie are, accordingly, Nolan's best work ever and the other 2 hours is just boring underheated Batman Begins rehash. like miss me with your Batman in Tokyo shit, we all came here for Heath Ledger |
fogza
10.14.19 | TDK has the best individual performance (and it's fucking great), but it's the weakest movie in the trilogy for me. |
Egarran
10.14.19 | Good analysis, Wine.
At least I agree. |
tectactoe
10.14.19 | Agree with a lot of what's been said here. BEGINS is far and away the best of the trilogy, DARK KNIGHT is a decent film that's highly overestimated due to one great performance, and RISES is a crock of shit.
Nice analysis Wines and I agree with it completely, haven't really thought about that but you're absolutely right - the comparatively "brightness" of ZODIAC cuts against the grain of the subject matter in a really interesting way.
fozga I love you and all but if MEMENTO ain't at the top of your Nolan list, you done fucked something up, my friend. |
fogza
10.14.19 | Lol, well at least I'm glad we're ok Tec, I feel like I'm always on your lists being all contrary. |
Winesburgohio
10.14.19 | we'll discuss this more tec when we get to a director i'm more partial to (no judgement honestly, Nolan and Fincher just don't really do it for me), but i used examples of opposites of lot when discussing truly *great* authors when i was a tutor i.e. 2666 is about convergence (of bodies, geography, themes, resolution) where The Savage Detectives is about divergence (of the same but also; life according to certain predispositions). what i'm getting at is, while Fincher has realized his talent twice to my thinking (Zodiac and Alien 3) I think he has it in him to present a more refined version of se7en to really set him in the big leagues: some things take time. |
tectactoe
10.14.19 | Well, I finally found and watched PROMISED LAND this weekend (pleasantly surprised by it, too), so the next list I do will be Van Sant :) |
Winesburgohio
10.14.19 | can't wait tec!!! might have to emulate you on that one, be curious to see where we diverge... |
Larkinhill
10.14.19 | Larkin, I'm older than you if that helps. TDK has a fantastic performance and a great first half. It gets muddled and messy as the film progresses, with a heavy handed, clumsy finale
Fair enough. You donât seem too young, but I was curious: |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.14.19 | just because heath ledger was a good joker doesn't mean TDK was automatically a good movie. joaxqueinnennenen phoenix was also a good joker but JOKER wasn't a very good movie. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.14.19 | christian bale is the absolute worst batman AND bruce wayne of all time and yes im including bat nips in that |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.14.19 | plus TDK is one of those movies where ur like "ok this is the end" and then it goes on for another 30 minutes and ur like "now this is DEFINITELY the end" and then it goes on for 30 more minutes and then ur like "i am POSITIVE this is the end" and then it goes on for another 30 minutes because suddenly the movie is about eckharts shitty two-face instead of the joker |
fogza
10.14.19 | "plus TDK is one of those movies where ur like "ok this is the end" and then it goes on for another 30 minutes"
Kinda like LOTR 3. Or Gone Girl. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.14.19 | Lol I despise the lotr movies so I'll give you that one but I loved gone girl.... ur right tho it did keep going... |
tectactoe
10.14.19 | i have never seen any of the LOTR movies all the way through.
tried to watch the first one twice a few years after it came out, fell asleep both times about an hour into it.
have never attempted it since. |
Larkinhill
10.14.19 | just because heath ledger was a good joker doesn't mean TDK was automatically a good movie. joaxqueinnennenen phoenix was also a good joker but JOKER wasn't a very good movie.
Oh yeah, I realize this. A great performance does not a good movie make. But, I just do happen to think that TDK and Joker are great movies. The great performances are just one element contributing. |
Larkinhill
10.14.19 | Haha. I love the LOTR movies also. Fellowship of the Ring (the first one) is in my top 10-15 movies of all time.
You guys hate a lot of good movies lol. And yes, Gone Girl was very good also. |
ramon.
10.14.19 | "You guys hate a lot of good movies lol."
Go get em tiger |
Egarran
10.14.19 | Love the LOTR, hate The Hobbit. |
Larkinhill
10.15.19 | I like The Hobbit but nowhere NEAR LOTR. Definitely spotty. That said, I own The Hobbit extended edition trilogy blu Ray boxed set. Was a good deal on Amazon a few Christmases ago. Got the LOTR boxed set also. Been meaning to binge all six films actually. |
Rowan5215
10.15.19 | counterpoint: Christian Bale rules at Bruce Wayne, but yes he is the worst onscreen Batman we've ever had, any decency in the non-Joker scenes in TDK are immediately ruined by his dubmass tHiS iSnT a CUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHR low voice shit |
Larkinhill
10.15.19 | Yeah Iâm down with that assessment actually. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.15.19 | Hes an even worse Bruce wayne than he is a batman |
Larkinhill
10.15.19 | Always the contrarian. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.15.19 | although that's an incredibly thoughtful and original rationalisation, christian bale being a terrible bruce-man is hardly a fringe opinion |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.15.19 | best iterations of bruce have always had him play up the playboy persona sure, but he's always been charismatic and likeable without his mask, a stark contrast to the inner demons he lets consume his superhero persona. christian bales batman was cringe mostly just because of the bat-voice, not because he didn't embody the essence of the alter-ego. his BRUCE was cringe because he was an insufferable prick and didn't embody anything about waynes day-time face at all. |
Lord(e)Po)))ts
10.15.19 | there is absolutely no dynamism in bales portrayal of the character, he is static between the cape and the suit and it makes for a bland, unrelatable, and largely unlikeable character. no wonder gotham hates him. |
Larkinhill
10.15.19 | Blah.
I think we can all agree that Michael Keaton is best Batman. High hopes for Pattinson though.
I honestly think Clooney could have been a really good Batman, but the script fucked him over. He has that rich, classy, elegant and mysterious vibe already. Heâs perfect â but nobody can supersede a script as shit as B&R. |
Rowan5215
10.15.19 | Battinson is gonna be the best version we've had no doubt
" his BRUCE was cringe because he was an insufferable prick and didn't embody anything about waynes day-time face at all." idk about this Begins at least does a good job playing up his conflicted feelings about the playboy persona, even though it mostly comes across in the form of "guhhh can't fuck Rachel cos she doesn't know i'm Batman" but there's still some inner life there. ofc this is entirely gone by TDKR when he's the exact same with or without the suit, but I think we all agree TDKR is a flaming pile of shit |
fogza
10.15.19 | "we all agree TDKR is a flaming pile of shit"
I don't agree. Aside from the prison sequence, it was good. |
Egarran
10.15.19 | If you mean Michael Keaton from Birdman, fuck yes.
OK the Burton movies were pretty good. |
tectactoe
10.15.19 | i am on board with TDKR being a flaming pile of shit.
i don't hate Bale (as Wayne) as much as Pots but i don't think he's as serviceable as Rowan, either. i'm somewhere in the middle. he's fine, maybe small shade above totally mediocre.
Bale imo just isn't that good of an actor. i honestly cannot think of a single performance of his that left me genuinely impressed. and if anyone says THE PRESTIGE or goddamn AMERICAN PSYCHO i'm going to rage. |
Rowan5215
10.15.19 | "I don't agree. Aside from the prison sequence, it was good."
dude the prison sequence is like half the fucking movie hahah |
Egarran
10.15.19 | I must conclude that in my circles there are very few Dark Knight trilogy fans.
This pleases me.
Because out in the world, people LOVE those movies. |
fogza
10.15.19 | He was good in the fighter. Only good thing about that one. |
fogza
10.15.19 | "dude the prison sequence is like half the fucking movie hahah"
Not really but yeah I know, it is a weak point.
|
Valkoor952
01.13.20 | Props for Zodiac, but disagree on nearly everything else in the list. Fight Club is tied with Zodiac for his best film easily and both are masterpieces in my eyes. I also wouldn't put panic room nearly that high and gone girl nearly that low. |
Egarran
01.13.20 | Fight Club has the best plot imo. But it's also a rare thing to see society fucked so good. I still wonder how that passed through the capitalist layers.
And if that one could, why don't we get more revolutionary movies?
Joker kind of got there, I guess. "'Kill the rich?' Sure, let me finance that." |
Valkoor952
01.13.20 | Fight Club has only gotten more relevant with each year passing. The themes of capitalism, alienation and masculinity explored speak even louder than they did 20 years ago. And contrary to tectec's description, the main lure of the movie doesn't come from its twist as the movie only gets better with subsequent viewings. It's the way those ideas are presented that is so captivating. |
tectactoe
01.13.20 | I mean if that's the case then I'd rather just read Palahniuk's novel. The film's aggressively grungy and hypermasculine tone does very little to aggregate the "main" themes of the novel re capitalism, which imo are the most important. I dunno. I'm glad you guys like it. And I don't hate it, not at all, I just think it's comparatively weak to things like ZODIAC, SE7EN, and THE GAME etc. |
Egarran
01.13.20 | But FC had about a dozen things I could relate to, both on a personal and societal level. None of the other titles come close in that regard (and thanks for that!).
And yes, the novel is great too. |