Snide: Warcraft 4? (Fuck Overwatch)

SpiritCrusher2 02.21.17	W3 is a beautiful game indeed, would love to see a sequel. I remember playing it the first time as a kid, using cheats because I was still too much of a noob for rts games, just so I could see what will happen next in the storyline. those cutscenes were EPIC
Piglet 02.21.17	damn maybe i should give warcraft III another chance
Astral Abortis 02.21.17	Overwatch is amazing and an invigorating change for the mainstream gaming world. Warcraft 4 would do nothing for anybody but diehard fans. It's not needed. Inventive new IPs and popular content that shifts the direction of modern gaming is needed, and Overwatch is doing (has done) that.
Astral Abortis 02.21.17	So no, Warcraft 4 is not a priority and shouldn't be.
Flugmorph 02.21.17	i second this sentiment
RadicalEd 02.21.17	Play Starcraft 2.
MeatSalad 02.21.17	It would be awful. The blizzard of today isn't the same one that made W3 back in the day. SC2 has an anemic custom game scene, deathblob multiplayer and it's campaign is horrible.
Deathconscious 02.21.17	Warcraft is fucking lame. Overwatch all fuckin day.
Deathconscious 02.21.17	oh, we're talking RTS Warcraft not WOW. they were pretty fun games i guess.
Astral Abortis 02.21.17	Also yeah play Starcraft 2
RadicalEd 02.21.17	"deathblob multiplayer" Just check it out again. That was true for a long time, but LotV fixed it. Also the story of the Campaign was horrible, the singleplayer content was great from a gameplay perspective.
DinosaurJones 02.21.17	[2] on the story being lolbad, but the gameplay being fun. I used to be huge into SC2, but I just don't like the direction the game has gone, honestly. I don't do much multiplayer anymore. Also, Blizzard isn't going to focus on making a new WarCraft game as long as WoW is still making them money.
Piglet 02.21.17	I'm mostly just pissed at Blizzard because I love Hearthstone to bits, but I just end up grinding away with a limited amount of cards because I can't justify wasting my money on these overpriced lottery "decks" that consist of 5 randomly picked ones. And then they otherwise lock some of the most playable and integral of the meta in $25 dollar "adventures". And then they rotate these cards out every year so then you're forced to restock with even newer cards. I can't think of greedier tactics for shit that doesn't even exist, it's not like they have to print these things like Yugioh.
DinosaurJones 02.21.17	I get into Hearthstone for limited amounts of time, so I know how you feel. Last time I went back and played, I couldn't use most of my decks because Naxx and GvG were "out of standard."
FullOfSounds 02.21.17	As you said, Warcraft 3 has "aged very well" and you're still making maps and stuff. So I don't see the need for them to drop Overwatch so fast and make a new Warcraft when the others are still relevant
Nocturtle 02.21.17	overwatch is gay a f
worthlessscab 02.21.17	overwatch was blizzard making a game similar to a valve game mod after valve did the same with dota
AmericanFlagAsh 02.21.17	Overwatch is amazing
danielito19 02.21.17	dota > warcraft >>> ogre crotch
Pajolero 02.21.17	Why when they have WoW which they can just continue to milk for another twelve years.
Calc 02.21.17	you say milk, I say people continue to pay for.
emester 02.21.17	You say this after Diablo 3 yeah hope that works out well Honestly I couldn't be happier with Blizzard as Hearthstone and Overwatch are some of the best pvp shit out there
Nazzadan 02.21.17	WC4 story-wise would be a clusterfuck. You either ignore WoW and say it was all a dream, you make the game set in the events of WoW which has a very bad story post Wrath, or you set it in the War of the Ancients which severely limits the races to basically the night elves and the burning legion. Also Overwatch is fun and good and also rules, I just don't play it anymore.
altertide0 02.21.17	starcraft is actually different from warcraft so saying "play starcraft 2" here is almost like saying "play skyrim" to a fan of baldur's gate. same genre, different experience. i don't think the story is a problem. they can always set warcraft 4 1000000 years after the events of w3/wow or in a different part of the world/universe (i don't know much about warcraft lore so) the same way the new mass effect is disconnected from the original trilogy
TheSpaceMan 02.21.17	The blizzard of today isn't the same [2] they just use huge budgets to "polish" game formulas that already exist and release them as their own. no innovation
danielito19 02.21.17	I wouldn't call it a TF2 clone, in TF2 every class has multiple weapon options. It's more of a first person shooter take on a Dota clone
Calc 02.21.17	"Overwatch is a TF2 clone." i can oversimplify every game ever made. doesn't detract from any of them.
danielito19 02.21.17	Ok how about this - Overwatch is super shallow, being easy to pick up while not necessarily rewarding high skill (besides typical FPS shit like headshots), has huge balance issues because Blizzard devs don't understand PvP games, and all the maps are overly linear
guitarded_chuck 02.21.17	dota > [2]
danielito19 02.21.17	To compare to TF2 - there are loads of mechanics, probably a few too many, but the game is still easy to pick up. Many of these reward high skill besides simply headshotting - rocket jumping, airblast + whatever the extra damage to airborne shotgun, the entire class of demoman. TF2 has a huge map variety and most aren't just glorified hallways.
Calc 02.21.17	i don't think I could disagree any more lol except that blizzard doesn't understand PvP games I dunno bout that.
danielito19 02.21.17	Did you play World of Warcraft? The PvP in that game was abysmal. When Cataclysm dropped, 2v2 arena was completely broken. In Overwatch heroes have absurdly imbalanced winrates, someone was telling me Bastion had a 40% winrate? And my roommate tells me all about Hearthstone which seems to only have three or four viable decks at a time.
danielito19 02.21.17	Like in WoW certain classes would be OP as shit for a full expansion - I quit shortly after Cataclysm so I can't speak there, but in Burning Crusade warlocks were cancer, and during Wrath paladins were OP.
TheSpaceMan 02.21.17	Why do ppl compare overwatch to Dota? Literally don't understand that
TheSpaceMan 02.21.17	Nah dude rogues, paladins, SL SL locks... all balanced! (;
danielito19 02.21.17	It's closer to Dota than TF2. The immutable characters help that.
TheSpaceMan 02.21.17	Don't see it
Calc 02.21.17	"In Overwatch heroes have absurdly imbalanced winrates, someone was telling me Bastion had a 40% winrate?" this means nothing, the characters are situational. if people didn't completely suck dick below master level they wouldn't stick with a bastion the entire game. the switching to fit the situation is part of the strategy and people don't like doing it cuz it means they prolly wont get the little medals at the end of the game.
ZippaThaRippa 02.21.17	Yeah Bastion is one of the MOST situational heroes in the game as well
danielito19 02.21.17	I checked with my Overwatch source and he said Bastion just got a huge buff. If his 40% winrate means nothing why did he get buffed?
KevinKC 02.21.17	"The blizzard of today isn't the same [2] they just use huge budgets to "polish" game formulas that already exist and release them as their own. no innovation" That's what blizzard always did and was. Warcraft 1&2 and Diablo were absolutely unoriginal games with a beautiful production. Nice graphics, cinematics, voices etc... But Blizzard has always been shit when it comes to depth or originality. And I'm not saying these games weren't good, just that Blizzard was a studio which always played it very safe and used a lot of blowing smoke while pretending they did revolutionary stuff. Starcraft became the success it was for two main reasons: it had aliens (zerg) and spaces marines, and three races that were truly different which was new at the time. There is no inventivity in this, just more resources. I'm sure every studio at the time would have loved to have the budget to make a RTS with camps that were truly different.
TheSpaceMan 02.21.17	Honestly, you're right. But now it seems more obvious
altertide0 02.21.17	i'm not a blizzard fanboy but "three races that were truly different which was new at the time. There is no inventivity in this" how is inventing three truly different races not inventive. seems like a big game changer to me. i would agree that going from 3 to 4 races or 5 to 7 etc. is just adding resources but going from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 is a pretty big deal imo. also what game was diablo like? another BIG thing blizzard invented (as far as i know) was heroes in warcraft 3. compared to starcraft and other rts games at the time that was HUGE, the game plays totally differently with a big shift from macro to micro. the micro in w3 was simply insane, you don't really see that even in the pro arena of say aoe
Astral Abortis 02.22.17	Comparing Overwatch to TF2 is a gross oversimplification, but it also says a lot when it's just about the only legit criticism most people can make about it. There aren't many hero-based shooters for the AAA market that can offer the diversity and creative ingenuity of a game like Overwatch. Despite it having similarities to the style of TF2, TF2 is still a very niche corner of the gaming world, that has retained a constant fanbase for so long -- one of its greatest strengths. Overwatch was not only a AAA response to hero-based RTS, first person shooters and online multiplayer games, but it helped dredge the dying market out of a very dull slump we've experienced over the past decade with the rising battle for graphical fidelity. The whole gaming world went away from cartoonish, characteristic games and felt like realism and grittiness was what the market needed for so long. Overwatch brought creative and unique, silly and well-designed characters to a market that was, for so long, saturated in dull, lifelike and realistic design, tactics and gameplay. Bringing that kind of style of game to a massive worldwide audience, and the way it spread like wildfire is a testament to the desire for this kind of quality and ambition more games need. In terms of balancing, with such a diverse cast of heroes, there are always bound to be issues. Even the tiniest buffs or nerfs could completely re-write the way the game is played, and it has happened multiple times over the past year of its existence. Blizzard are constantly making tweaks, upgrades and updates to balance the game as best they can, making great use of the PTR and listening to player feedback. They always give clear and concise reasoning to what they do, and why, and why some suggestions simply won't work, etc. They are active in their community and do the absolute best they can, rather than releasing a shoddy product and leaving it to its own devices. Complaining about balancing is quite silly overall considering how well-balanced the game actually tends to be (at the current time). Even characters deemed "not good" or unworkable in the current meta ARE workable and good characters when played well by a skilled player. It's absolutely a skill and team-based shooter, and anyone who calls it "shallow" hasn't played it for very long, obviously. It's an extremely in-depth and amazingly diverse shooter the likes of which gaming hasn't seen SINCE TF2, which is by far a bigger travesty than just being a "clone" of TF2. TL;DR: get your heads out of your asses
danielito19 02.22.17	tldr play a better game
Astral Abortis 02.22.17	Also if you're basing your argument for unbalanced gameplay on Bastion's winrate, that's hilarious since currently, Bastion is one of the most-niche picks in the game and is generally only used for very short and extremely specific placements -- which is why he's getting a big buff, so he can be more universal, which we will see soon if it works or not (my better judgement thinks the buff may be a bit too much but if that's the case he'll be nerfed down a bit within a week or two).
budgie 02.22.17	anyone wanna play sheep tag
Astral Abortis 02.22.17	And your critique of the maps doesn't even make sense since Overwatch actually has brilliantly designed maps. And here's a video on why Overwatch's maps are so well designed for what they do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DynhzEQtog
Astral Abortis 02.22.17	Overall I feel like you've not played the game much, or if at all to come up with such plainly wrong arguments.
danielito19 02.22.17	overall you wrote a fucken essay on overwatch and you are super butt hurt that i insulted your fav game
budgie 02.22.17	rofl
Astral Abortis 02.22.17	I like discussing games m8
Piglet 02.22.17	overall ovdeath just came all over your arse and mouth with his incisive defense and you're sobbing about him being butthurt
DinosaurJones 02.22.17	Lol, OvDeath makes solid points and you just say that he's upset. Why don't you say your rebuttal, why you don't like the game, or let me guess, you just don't have enough time or care enough. You just want to shit all over something and be done with it.
SteveOffProbation 02.22.17	PC gamers lollllllllllllllll
KevinKC 02.22.17	@Altertide 0: "i would agree that going from 3 to 4 races or 5 to 7 etc is just adding resources but going from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 is a pretty big deal imo" Going from one to two camps is as incredibly inventive as making a beat'em up with one character and having the revolutionary idea of putting two characters in the sequel. It's great for the players and very logical, but it's only a question of ressources. Again I'm not saying Blizzard games weren't great, simply that the studio always played it very safe. Diablo is the most generic RPG you can find and that's why it worked because people like me who didn't like RPGs could still play it because it was accessible and straight forward and super beautiful, and with nice musics etc... absolutely nothing original in diablo. When it comes to Warcraft III, the hero thing was Heroes of Might and Magic III (most popular of the franchise) transposed in Real-time. And it was great, I actually think this was a bolder move and that it gives the game a true identity. And if you disagree with me, I AM GOING TO SULK VIOLENTLY !
danielito19 02.22.17	He makes solid points sure. Here's my point: Overwatch blows
altertide0 02.22.17	@KevinKC i think you are making extremely big oversimplifications. saying heroes in warcraft iii are like heroes in homm iii is like saying free jazz is just a bit more complicated dixieland, or that black metal is essentially just blues music. it's kinda true but at the same time not true at all. you're acting like transposing the hero mechanic from the turn-based homm to a real-time strategy like warcraft is just a cosmetic change, when in reality it provokes a completely different playstyle. You might as well say homm wasn't innovative because really it's just fantasy chess. Same deal with diablo, it was innovative exactly because of how accessible and straightforward it was. diablo was to rpg genre what punk rock was to rock music. simplified? sure. accessible? of course. generic? absolutely not. simplification is sometimes the biggest innovation. adding new races is the only point i am willing to agree with you on if i must although i still think you oversimplify things. have you ever even played these games competitively? because while changing the playstyle from 3 races to 4 or from 5 to 7 is not a big deal i think it forces you to change your tactics on a fundamental level, not just adjust them a bit, when dealing with 2 instead of 1 (or 3 instead of 2 races). it is, again, somewhat similar to what you have in music - ever listened to a solo piece and then to a duo piece? the philosophies behind them are just SOOO different, it's a completely other world. NOW SULK
Aberf 02.22.17	F O R C E D E S P O R T S Seriously tho, Overwatch is a good casual game.
DinosaurJones 02.22.17	FORCED ESPORTS?? You mean every single Blizzard game?? I love Blizz, don't get me wrong, but not all of their games have to be ESPORTS.
Aberf 02.22.17	"FORCED ESPORTS?? You mean every single Blizzard game?? I love Blizz, don't get me wrong, but not all of their games have to be ESPORTS." Gross overexaggeration for this one, jesus... You mean the likes of Starcraft II (almost feel like the game that responsible with the rise of E-sports) and Warcraft II are a FORCED ESPORTS?? Other than those 2, then yeah.
frozencarl 02.22.17	overwatch blows, but then again i never got into tf2 or that style of shooter. quake will always be superior tbh blizzard stopped being relevant once cataclysm came out. i hear legion is good but its too little too late imo
danielito19 02.22.17	Dota is pretty obviously the best esport, along with CS:GO. Basically if you aren't Valve don't call your game an esport
Aberf 02.22.17	Dota is pretty obviously the best esport, along with CS:GO. Basically if you aren't Valve don't call your game an esport [2] Dota 2 is a good game.
Sinternet 02.22.17	some dumbass points in here
danielito19 02.22.17	Dota is a horrible game someone please help me quit
DinosaurJones 02.22.17	Play League (don't actually play League [I've never played League or Dota])
Aberf 02.22.17	just uninstall
Aberf 02.22.17	Playing league is equivalent to eating shit btw.
DinosaurJones 02.22.17	I play ROCKET League. That's the superior League, clearly. SOCCER CARS, WOO!
Chortles 02.22.17	"playing esports" lol
adr 02.22.17	Quake > Overwatch [∞]
DinosaurJones 02.22.17	I was at an IEM back in 2010. I remember watching Quake being played and like the first big SC2 tourney (it was still in Beta at that point)
TheSpaceMan 02.22.17	"Quake > Overwatch" Obv, and anyone who disagrees is wrong
Maco097 02.22.17	That's true.
frozencarl 02.22.17	quake champions hype?? quake live kinda went down the drain once they switched it to pc only. pretty sure its only available on steam now and ya gotta pay $10...lol
frozencarl 02.22.17	it used to be on mac too.
frozencarl 02.22.17	i have a quake 3 game on my ps2, but like you said, without m+kb it was a pain to play. yea wine is def an option, but the fact it was browser based made it pretty accessible to a wider audience and now that it costs money and is on steam the community has significantly shrunk. :shrug:
Devastator 02.22.17	"Blizzard needs to stop being lazy fucks with this Overwatch shit" You shut your whore mouth.
heck 02.22.17	real gamers play HuniePop
Snide 02.23.17	"Basically if you aren't Valve don't call your game an esport" What in the fresh hell are you smoking?
Aberf 02.23.17	He is right tho, snide.
Snide 02.23.17	Has no-one in here heard of League of Legends, or Starcraft II? Two of the biggest e-sports in existence? Neither of those are Valve.
Aberf 02.23.17	The biggest one in the term of competitiveness are Dota 2. And just look at this. http://www.esportsearnings.com/players
Aberf 02.23.17	Not to mention that Starcraft II is slowly dying and League of Legends is having a stale domination by either Korean or Chinese. Dota 2 scene is much more diverse and more competitive compared to LoL.
TheSpaceMan 02.23.17	"Basically if you aren't Valve don't call your game an esport" LOL
Snide 02.23.17	Just because Dota 2 is the flavor of the year doesn't mean all other esport titles are dead. League, SC2 and others are still pulling in a hefty amount of cash.
Aberf 02.23.17	For sure LoL and Sc2 do gather some audiences. It's just that the true competitiveness of esports exists in Dota 2, CS:GO, and SC2. LoL, on the other hand, its competitive aspect is too dominated by one region, not too mention that the game lacks in strategy compared to the other games.
Astral Abortis 02.23.17	I don't watch nor do I care about esports for any video games, but aren't there esports for just about any game that can be played competitively?
Aberf 02.23.17	There are smash, halo, smite, street fighter, and even COD. Pretty much a significant tournament for those are esports. But that's not the main purpose of the game imo. Because you don't play those game as a your main job. Dota2, LoL, SC2, and CS:GO on the other hand.. IF you are that good at those games, you can make it your career. That's why it's easier to associate E-Sports with these 4 games..
Astral Abortis 02.23.17	Man that's just as depressing as regular sports.
TheSpaceMan 02.23.17	halo 2 + 3 mlg were my fav, still love watching those highlights
Gameofmetal 02.23.17	"I don't watch nor do I care about esports for any video games, but aren't there esports for just about any game that can be played competitively?" it does depend on the game. mobas are easy because the way they're viewed in game translates easily to large scale viewing. it seems like they've had some struggles making overwatch viewer friendly since it's a shooter, but it's on the rise currently in esports
Trundle 02.23.17	Warcraft III fucking ruled,
Aberf 02.23.17	"it seems like they've had some struggles making overwatch viewer friendly since it's a shooter, but it's on the rise currently in esports" Where the fuck you got that claim from, It's on rise? The game is forcefully endorsed to esports by Blizzard and even the player base would prefer the game to stay casual.
Astral Abortis 02.23.17	I don't know where you're getting that, the game is pretty comfortably professional and people enjoy it much more that way. Casual Overwatch is bad.
Aberf 02.23.17	You can read it here https://np.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/5u6o56/meta_montecristo_is_attempting_to_pressure/ So basically, most overwatch players don't give a shit about esports or the competitive scene.
Aberf 02.23.17	And if you look at HotS (Shame on you for this game blizzard), the esports scene there is completely non-existent. Overwatch is a good game that they made, why would bother forcing it into an esports when it's already successful as a casual game?
Astral Abortis 02.23.17	I don't know about professional competitive but in-game competitive and ranked is essential compared to casual social play
Gameofmetal 02.23.17	"Where the fuck you got that claim from, It's on rise? The game is forcefully endorsed to esports by Blizzard and even the player base would prefer the game to stay casual." lol
Gameofmetal 02.23.17	"Overwatch is a good game that they made, why would bother forcing it into an esports when it's already successful as a casual game?" have you ever heard of money like ever
Aberf 02.23.17	"I don't know about professional competitive but in-game competitive and ranked is essential compared to casual social play" No, shit man. There is TF 2 as a comparison. You can develop ranking in non-esport game. "have you ever heard of money like ever" Yeah, good luck getting money from a non-existent competitive scene instead of making a sequel from the likes of SC2 and WC3, the game where there are an actual competitive scenes for each...
Astral Abortis 02.23.17	"No, shit man. There is TF 2 as a comparison. You can develop ranking in non-esport game." As I said, I don't follow esports, I just know there's an in-game difference between casual and ranked and casual is trash
Aberf 02.23.17	I think I misunderstood you. I mean casual in a way you play a game optionally competitive without giving too much shit about the professional scene whatsoever.
Snide 02.23.17	Warcraft III still has an active competitive scene and modding community after 15 years, I'd say that's pretty impressive.
frozencarl 02.23.17	W3 is one of the greatest games of all time. that entire franchise is just too good. the gameplay, the lore, all of it. i think the reason talks of W4 are being delayed is because of WoW. blizzard is worried about the continuation of the warcraft story-line since WoW continued the W3 story and W4 would in turn continue the WoW story once that game ends. WoW still has a few expansion packs it can roll out (sargeras, the old gods), so it could be a while. besides the lore, i dont think there are any other reasons why W4 shouldnt happen.
DinosaurJones 02.23.17	Mostly it's that RTS is a pretty dead genre now, sadly.
Aberf 02.23.17	It's dying but not completely dead thanks to Blizzard.
altertide0 02.23.17	it's not dying it simply stopped being mainstream, not unlike jazz or punk rock (and people try to tell you video games aren't art!)
Aberf 02.23.17	"it's not dying it simply stopped being mainstream, not unlike jazz or punk rock (and people try to tell you video games aren't art!)" Would a genre be dying if no one is trying to make something new out of it? Same thing is happening with SC2 and WC3, Blizzard have been slowing down the patching for the game. It's effectively killing the game.
Sinternet 02.23.17	overwatch professional scene is steadily rising in popularity, the overwatch world cup was pretty big lets not forget the game has only been out a short while, the CSGO competitive scene took a good while to really get popular as well and that's even with it being an iteration of a franchise which has had a long history of esports
Trundle 02.23.17	any of you n00bs remember pure pwnage?
Aberf 02.24.17	"overwatch professional scene is steadily rising in popularity, the overwatch world cup was pretty big" Eh, popularity contest.. Let's see then.