GhandhiLion
01.13.23 | vote |
ArsMoriendi
01.13.23 | Patti Smith
Bob Dylan
Donovan |
ArsMoriendi
01.13.23 | Nina Nastasia
Caetano Veloso
Jenny Hval
Laura Nyro
A lot of solo artists who write their own songs lol |
SteakByrnes
01.13.23 | why 22 |
GhandhiLion
01.13.23 | it created jazz music |
SteakByrnes
01.13.23 | Memes aside, it is very jazzy and fits more under that umbrella than singer-songwriter. Rym has it with acid jazz and lounge which I think fits perfectly |
GhandhiLion
01.13.23 | I didn't say it was s/s it's just a current dig |
JKing92
01.13.23 | An honest question: is singer-songwriter the broadest genre label of all time? |
normaloctagon
01.13.23 | singer-songwriter is not a frikkin genre it's literally a noun smdh |
GhandhiLion
01.13.23 | No, I'd argue it's closer to a legitimate music genre than an umbrella genre. (pop / alt / post-industrial)
A more broad genre would be a fake one like acoustic rock or glitch pop |
gschwen
01.13.23 | Just peeking through my catalog:
City & Colour
Cat Stevens / Yusef
Scott Walker
Simon & Garfunkel / Paul Simon
Van Morrison
Neil Young / CSN / CSNY
Nick Drake
Carol King
Elton John
Billy Joel
Jimmy Buffett
Randy Newman
Linda Perhacs
Joni Mitchell
Roy Harper
Don McLean
John Prine
Gram Parsons
Syd Barrett
Vashti Bunyan
Patti Smith
Springsteen??? |
GhandhiLion
01.13.23 | Nice catalogue man |
JohnnyoftheWell
01.13.23 | Current Jazz digs [2] |
normaloctagon
01.13.23 | gandhi, the utility of a genre name lies in its ability to describe what's happening within it. umbrella genres can be problematic but often still accomplish this. singer-songwriter does not. there are singer-songwriters in many genres |
GhandhiLion
01.13.23 | I disagree. I think you can make a safer prediction of what some random singer-songwriter album could sound like than a random metal album. |
Mort.
01.13.23 | current dazz jigs |
Kompys2000
01.13.23 | "I think you can make a safer prediction of what some random singer-songwriter album could sound like than a random metal album."
If this wasn't glion I'd be certain it was bait |
porcupinetheater
01.13.23 | Idk, if singer-songwriter is a distillation of a codified sign (largely in the vein of post-folk boom acoustic troubadourism) then I think it does work as a genre, but as a methodology you could apply the tag to bedroom black metal. Which nobody does, but then I’m not really sure someone like Lana del Rey or the Bad Seeds (barring the Boatman’s Call) fits the mold of the genre |
Kompys2000
01.13.23 | To me singer-songwriter is exactly what's on the tin: any artist whose principal appeal is one person's vocals and lyricism/songcraft, generally with production that highlights and defers to these things |
Kompys2000
01.13.23 | By this measure Del Rey and Cave are both absolutely singer/songwriter, as are the majority of country artists |
porcupinetheater
01.13.23 | Most Bad Seeds production absolutely doesn’t defer to lyricism and songcraft and those elements are far from the primary appeal of their 80s work, most of their 90s stuff barring Good Son and Boatman’s Call, and a lot of the more recent records tends towards vocal ambient, which is kind of antithetical to that approach. Having strong lyricism isnt the be all end all of a genre signifier, and if having vocals present in the mix with discernible lyricism is enough to codify a genre than you have to retroactively subsume something like blues to it as well, which I think isn’t the case |
heck
01.13.23 | "ffs indie pop is a genre connected to the uk 80s indie movement."
genres famously can't change or develop over time, true |
GhandhiLion
01.13.23 | Genres can develop but they never stray that far from their roots without becoming something else. Also I wasn't trying to convey that indie pop can't exist outside of the 80s if that's what you interpreted it as. |
GhandhiLion
01.13.23 | "If this wasn't glion I'd be certain it was bait"
lol : p
"To me singer-songwriter is exactly what's on the tin: any artist whose principal appeal is one person's vocals and lyricism/songcraft, generally with production that highlights and defers to these things"
Sounds like we generally agree. Way more narrow than metal is in reality :] |
gschwen
01.13.23 | IMO singer songwriter is generally attributed to one or two persons and focus on a particular instrument, with songwriting and lyricism being the principal draw.
However I couldn't really explain to you why I don't think Jeff Beck or Brian Eno or Bob Marley or Frank Zappa fit, and maybe it's because you could pick better genres for them.
|
Kompys2000
01.13.23 | "Sounds like we generally agree. Way more narrow than metal is in reality"
My dude how is a definition that makes no stipulations as to instrumental palettes or lyrical themes "way more narrow" than a L I T E R A L subgenre of rock music
"you have to retroactively subsume something like blues to it as well"
see I have no issue doing this! Temporally locking genre definitions makes no sense to me and I honestly do see what old bluesmen did and what a Jeff Buckley or Elliot Smith wannabe does as fundamentally very similar |
Kompys2000
01.13.23 | Also whoops methinks my the-good-son-is-the-only-bad-seeds-record-i've-heard-in-full is showing, concession MADE porc |
normaloctagon
01.14.23 | “My dude how is a definition that makes no stipulations as to instrumental palettes or lyrical themes "way more narrow" than a L I T E R A L subgenre of rock music“
Lol it’s because he doesn’t like the latter. Flawless ghandilogic |
porcupinetheater
01.14.23 | “ see I have no issue doing this! Temporally locking genre definitions makes no sense to me and I honestly do see what old bluesmen did and what a Jeff Buckley or Elliot Smith wannabe does as fundamentally very similar”
I see this in general and I mostly agree, but in situations like this I think ignoring that history would be yet another step down the long long road of the erasure of the contribution of black musicians to the development of music as a whole, considering the post-Dylanizing ethos underlying most traditionally considered singer-songwriters
Just rubs the wrong way a little, but your point isn’t wrong in a more broad apply to various genres sense |
porcupinetheater
01.14.23 | Also jam From Her to Eternity yooooooo |
someone
01.14.23 | Damien Jurado |
Kompys2000
01.14.23 | Mmmm yep definitely fraught terrain and many genre terms have an (often very racially-charged) historic context that must be taken into account, but I guess it goes to show that "genre" describes a great many things that are ultimately not analogous and that change over time |
Kompys2000
01.14.23 | I mean, to your earlier point I would very much consider "singer songwriter" a methodology but I also think quite a few genres are largely methodology- pop, classical, etc |
Cimnele
01.14.23 | I read several of these threads yesterday and even posted in one but only now do I understand what they're for :cat: :cat2: i think it's cool that the new tags are actually part of the site now!!!!
also jam From Her to Eternity [2] |
GhandhiLion
01.14.23 | "My dude how is a definition that makes no stipulations as to instrumental palettes or lyrical themes"
I was meming when I said that you agreed. But by "in reality" I meant how the genre typically is and not just how it's defined on paper. It's typical definition is less narrow than the definition of metal sure. But if we take into account all the infinitely growing subcategories of metal it's more narrow in practice.
"Lol it’s because he doesn’t like the latter."
Eh I like metal
I think it's possible to come up with a better definition of singer-songwriter as a genre. That might be hard though as it's easier to define by what it's not than by what it is. |
porcupinetheater
01.14.23 | Singer songwriter is white guy is sad and wants to cri and then go out for a milkshake |
porcupinetheater
01.14.23 | Sorry Tori sorry Fiona |
GhandhiLion
01.14.23 | Sorry Benjamin Clementine. Sorry Michael Kiwanuka |
porcupinetheater
01.14.23 | We’ll always have art pop |
GhandhiLion
01.14.23 | I wonder if adding art pop would be a good or a bad idea. It could just become the new experimental |