Toondude10: So...The Last Jedi

Toondude10 12.13.17	Apparently they're saying it's the best since Empire. That gets me hyped up.
Kalopsia 12.13.17	IT SAYS STAR WARS - HERE'S MY MONEY
Toondude10 12.13.17	^ lol I doubt it's going to do better than Force Awakens tho
Kalopsia 12.13.17	oh come on, it's going to do better than Force Awakens
Devastator 12.13.17	Seeing it tomorrow as well. Beyond hyped.
CygnusX1 12.13.17	Force Awakens was a hot pile of cinema garbage. Rogue One raised my hopes for TLJ by a bit.
Kalopsia 12.13.17	"they're saying it's the best since Empire" been reading that too. so potentially third best behind Empire and ANH? RotJ is currently third best for me, but it's got major flaws so who knows it could be bumped. colour me excited
Kalopsia 12.13.17	"Force Awakens was a hot pile of cinema garbage. Rogue One raised my hopes for TLJ by a bit." Rogue One better than Force Awakens? aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahaha....
zaruyache 12.13.17	As long as it's not a copy of any other sw films I won't even care. Hype/5 regardless.
CygnusX1 12.13.17	I mean that last 3 minutes of R1 was better than any star war besides OG trilogy so.....
Sinternet 12.13.17	hot takes itt moveie looks good tho
Devastator 12.13.17	Hopefully it delivers a few surprises like some reviews have said.
TheSonomaDude 12.13.17	R1 is like 10x better than TFA and that's after seeing both films more than Id ever want to
BlackwaterPork 12.13.17	So... Dunkirk So... justice league So... the last Jedi So... new list title ideas?
Rowan5215 12.13.17	"Apparently they're saying it's the best since Empire." so it's a 5/10?
grannypantys 12.13.17	"they're saying it's the best since Empire" duh (((they're))) saying that Just like every new Pearl Jam album is their "best" since Ten. Got to build the hype.
Toondude10 12.13.17	@Rowan I take it you hate Star Wars
smaugman 12.13.17	Saw it tonight, very good movie.
ConcubinaryCode 12.13.17	My favorite part about rogue one was how those rebel scum died. Long.live.love.empire
Trundle 12.14.17	force awakens was so bad, if they have one original idea it will already be better.
Futures 12.14.17	blindly following critical reception especially on disney products lol
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	Guys, Revenge of the Sith is the best, let's stop the OG dick humping for once. Either way, I'm excited as hell for this. TFA was decent and Rogue One ruled.
TheSonomaDude 12.14.17	ROTS is a pretty good movie tbh and easily by far the best of the prequels
rodrigo90 12.14.17	Anybody knows if the story is the "official" continuation of the return of the jedi or did they make a whole new story?.
Papa Universe 12.14.17	No real spoilers ahead, I promise: Lads, this is miles better than Force Awakens. BUT it is also quite exhausting and some of the characters are underwhelming, but overall it's quite definitely one of if not the most consistent, dynamic and thrilling episode of them all. It just doesn't give you a moment to breathe, which could also be quite negative sometimes. Some of the presented ideas, concepts and plotlines are beyond amazing (like, ferreals), but some are just slightly unfinished. That's about it without giving away too much.
rodrigo90 12.14.17	ROTS is a pretty good movie tbh and easily by far the best of the prequels One thing I was angry with George Lucas is that he didn't put much emphasis on the lightsaber battles which for me is one of the most essential things of star wars.
Papa Universe 12.14.17	^ehm, am I misremembering RotS or was that statement utterly incorrect?
rodrigo90 12.14.17	Yes that was my point, RoTS is the best of the prequels, because of the lightsaber battle of anakin and obi wan.
Tundra 12.14.17	Last fight in ROTS is all you needed, ROTS is 2nd best for me, Empire 1st of course
rodrigo90 12.14.17	But anyway I'm still waiting for a movie about starkiller
rodrigo90 12.14.17	Or better I DEMAND A MOVIE ABOUT STARKILLER
Sinternet 12.14.17	lol rots is still hot garbage even phantom menace is better
rodrigo90 12.14.17	Do you like a movie about 50% of it is about a pod race? FUCK YOU
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	"lol rots is still hot garbage even phantom menace is better" Don't lie to me Sin, you have a Jar Jar Binks fetish don't you?
grannypantys 12.14.17	arguing about the best prequel is like fighting over the hottest chick with down syndrome
Papa Universe 12.14.17	@BlackMalachite: They certainly share a lot of things, from odd physical shapes to annoying presence...
Frippertronics 12.14.17	"94% on Rotten Tomatoes" means literally nothing, and from the leaked spoilers, it sounds like fucking garbage enjoy dude
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	I mean considering that the best prequel is better than all the originals and the sequels, I don't know about the validity of that kinda point granny.
Frippertronics 12.14.17	the prequels are objectively terrible outside "Duel of Fates" and Natalie Portman / Ewan McGregor
TheSonomaDude 12.14.17	"Yes that was my point, RoTS is the best of the prequels, because of the lightsaber battle of anakin and obi wan." uhh i mean personally i think story is alot more important than fight scenes
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	Ewan McGregor is a national treasure
Tundra 12.14.17	Well their objectively wrong, bro
TheSonomaDude 12.14.17	But yeah this movie looks like shit. I work at a movie theater and have seen alot of promos for it, even got to watch about 5-10 minutes of it during a test reel, looks worse than TFA.
Tundra 12.14.17	judging a movie on 10 mins of screen time... sure i guess
TheSonomaDude 12.14.17	Well im sure everyone else will like it so good for yall
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	I miss Hayden Christensen
zaruyache 12.14.17	should've expected that
Frippertronics 12.14.17	pretty sure i can tell it's going to be garbage from several plot points and major scenes being leaked have fun with what they did to L.S. fuck disney
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	I'm just mad that Disney cancelled the game Star Wars 1313, that shit looked tight as hell.
dathvada321 12.14.17	Lol @ TPM being anywhere near as good as ROTS
hal1ax 12.14.17	rogue 1 was x10 better than TFA [2]
hal1ax 12.14.17	snide u have to be the only person aside from adolescent girls who misses hayden christensen
dathvada321 12.14.17	Critics are reviewing TLJ very well, but the regular people who have seen it seem much more negative. And the leaked spoilers sound like absolute shit.
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	Revenge of the Sith > Rogue One > Empire Strikes Back > Attack of the Clones > The Force Awakens > A New Hope > Return of the Jedi > Phantom Menace
hal1ax 12.14.17	attack of the clones above return / new hope? u are trolling. that can't be serious
hal1ax 12.14.17	attack of the clones is easily the worst star wars film
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	No, Phantom Menace is the worst in the series by a green mile, Darth Maul is literally the only saving grace of that film, I didn't really care about the pod racing in it tbh.
dathvada321 12.14.17	AOTC over the original? What the fuck dude lol
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	AOTC is unabashed cheese with some awesome action scenes, so basically a much better version of the overall tone of Return of the Jedi.
Frippertronics 12.14.17	lol i hate sand, it's coarse and it gets everywhere you can't defend its horrendous direction or writing
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	I can defend it though, the direction was actually pretty competent (fight choreography was great, some of the scenes such as the stormtroopers blazing through the dust storm were absolutely beautiful, and as I mentioned the writing is cheesy at times, but unlike ROTJ it embraced it wholeheartedly)
Frippertronics 12.14.17	maybe because ROTJ was never about the fights, and fights in SW has always (before the prequel trilogy, at least) been secondary to the story. But yes, killing the sandpeople (and the children, too!) is captivating writing and direction. Truly, Hayden Christensen's acting is the pinnacle of what all acting in sci-fi should strive to be. Dude's as wooden as Pinocchio's long ass nose.
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	His confession to Padme about murdering the sand people was actually an important scene, it really helped begin to set up Anakin's internal conflict with having emotions which would help sow the seeds of doubt about the Jedi Order's moral code in the third film. Lucas knew what he was doing.
Frippertronics 12.14.17	Lucas had nobody to tell him no with the prequels and all three of them show that lack of quality control the originals had. Plus, I don't think anyone is even trying to act like the OT is pretty fucking cheesy, it's just they had people behind the scenes reining Lucas in and making sure he didn't do anything too fucking stupid. Also, the confession would've worked had the script been remotely decent. You cannot tell me the way it was worded or delivered was even satisfying, because that simply isn't the case. AOTC is a slog to get through in general. Aside from the "sand" quote, there's literally nothing memorable about it.
ConcubinaryCode 12.14.17	Someone tell me who dies so I don't have to see it.
hal1ax 12.14.17	the confessions to padme, like virtually all other dialogue in that film, was insipid and heavy-handed and obviated my ability to engage and invest in any sort of character arc that may have been taking place
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	Sure they were more uneven as a result of Lucas's creative control, but the highs were higher because no-one was able to get in the way of his vision which was a slightly cheesy but grandiose romantic space opera set against the fall of the galaxy. I felt that the writing in that scene was perfectly serviceable and that Hayden delivered the line exactly as he should have. Honestly my only real complaints from the prequels were Jar Jar Binks, overuse of CGI in certain scenes, and most of The Phantom Menace.
grannypantys 12.14.17	"Revenge of the Sith > Rogue One > Empire Strikes Back > Attack of the Clones > The Force Awakens > A New Hope > Return of the Jedi > Phantom Menace" We already knew you had bad taste based on your music preferences Blacky. No need to rub it in.
TheSonomaDude 12.14.17	Worst film is probably TPM, but because I find it to be extremely boring and dull.
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	I think we can all universally agree though that Jar Jar Binks is the worst part of Star Wars lore.
rodrigo90 12.14.17	The tongue scene in TPM is pretty funny though.
TheCynic 12.14.17	oh yeah that fart joke in TPM had me rollling...like when that creature farts and jar jar makes a funny face liek XD
sempiturtle 12.14.17	Lol ROTS dialogue is some rough fuckin shit Edit: THIS MOTHERFUCKER JUST PUT CLONES AHEAD OF ANH AND JEDI... reminds me of my fucking middle school rankings
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	Mee-sa see my ratings, mee-sa think ROTS better than originals, moi moi.
sempiturtle 12.14.17	I mean I can't be too critical, since I have Rogue One at #2 (I love a non-force sensitive protag. finally) but still... that fucking fireplace scene in Clones.
NorwichScene 12.14.17	Rogue One sucked, TFA was awesome! Expecting this to be awesome too, seeing it tomorrow
WhiteNoise 12.14.17	Sorry everyone, but I thought this kinda sucked. I'm a pretty big fan of The Force awakens but this feels like Rian Johnson took a big poo on whatever story JJ Abrams was trying to build up.
Alastor 12.14.17	"I think we can all universally agree though that Jar Jar Binks is the worst part of Star Wars lore." Didn't they intend him to be the major villian in the prequels, but killed him off due to backlash of the fans? Because that twist would have truly been mindblowing.
TheGreatQ 12.14.17	Rogue One is one of the few movies I’ve ever turned off early because it was so bad.
Kalopsia 12.14.17	"Didn't they intend him to be the major villian in the prequels, but killed him off due to backlash of the fans? Because that twist would have truly been mindblowing." that would have been the dumbest thing ever. the idea of having a hidden villain right in plain sight COULD have been interesting... but you can't have that character be a goofy cartoon character, then have him turn around a movie later and be all like 'bwahahaha it was meeee'sa da whole time'a " with any serious threat. dumbest fucking theory ever.
dathvada321 12.14.17	Reddit is hating this movie. Stark contrast to when TFA came out. Any dissenting opinions were furiously downvoted lol.
DungeonBoy 12.14.17	Will be tough to compete with the Disaster Artist at the box office, but looking forward to seeing it at some point
Alastor 12.14.17	"you can't have that character be a goofy cartoon character, then have him turn around a movie later and be all like 'bwahahaha it was meeee'sa da whole time'a" best opportunity in movie history wasted right there.
KjSwantko 12.14.17	I hate fucking Star Wars. But we're having a special premiere for all my firm's clients tonight for it, so I will be seeing it none the less.
Kalopsia 12.14.17	aw poor baby, i hope you survive
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	"but you can't have that character be a goofy cartoon character, then have him turn around a movie later and be all like 'bwahahaha it was meeee'sa da whole time'a " with any serious threat. dumbest fucking theory ever." I dunno man, Naruto Shippuden pulled it off with having Obito disguise himself as Tobi (a very silly character) and orchestrate an entire war under an assumed identity and that worked pretty well.
TheSpirit 12.14.17	you can't seriously be comparing naruto to star wars rn
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	I'm just making a point that the whole "silly character is secretly a main villain" idea has been done before and can be really cool.
Toondude10 12.14.17	but it also can be really fucking stupid like in Iron Man 3's case
TheSpirit 12.14.17	star wars would never do that and it would have been terrible b/c jar jar is an abomination
Papa Universe 12.14.17	why are you theorising and arguing about it? let's just be glad he isn't a thing anymore
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	Iron Man 3 was pretty bad yeah
Cygnatti 12.14.17	rogue 1 was x10 better than TFA [3]
DungeonBoy 12.14.17	and also Jar Jar died so.. https://youtu.be/jLACxMXBRhM
Valkoor952 12.14.17	The movie is gonna be bad, and you're all gonna find out pretty soon. They practically butcher the lore even further while also completely removing anything of interest in TFA.
Papa Universe 12.14.17	have you seen it?
BlackMalachite 12.14.17	Holy fuck that deleted scene though, lmao.
sempiturtle 12.14.17	Rogue 1 was x10 better than TFA [4] I mean seriously, that final third is great all the way through.
Kalopsia 12.14.17	Rogue One felt like a bad fanfic brought to the big screen, complete with a hentai octopus porn scene
Ignimbrite 12.14.17	"TLJ conflicts with my headcanon, fuck this movie" - reddit
dathvada321 12.15.17	I really don't think that's the issue @Ignimbrite. The story just shits all over the OT characters and their accomplishments. Not to mention all the shitty Marvel humor, and the inflated runtime.
Tundra 12.15.17	Of course people are going to call this shit,lol , fuck 'em, this movie kicks serious ass
Valkoor952 12.15.17	It seriously does not.
Valkoor952 12.15.17	Also the movie is filled with rehashed scenes from both Empire and Return, it's seriously laughable.
Tundra 12.15.17	From someone who hates Force Awakens for how much it rehashed New Hope, gtfo sir, this film was original, visually stunning, man it was good
Toondude10 12.15.17	Just got back from the movie. Fucking excellent. There are a few problems but I won't spoil them here. Definitely better than TFA.
Frippertronics 12.15.17	wew
50iL 12.15.17	this film was original, visually stunning, man it was good [2] No complaints. I fucking loved it, and it's up there with IV for my favorite Star Wars episode.
Tundra 12.15.17	"There are a few problems but I won't spoil them here." I have a feeling some of your "problems" might be what i liked about the movie the most
unclereich 12.15.17	This is like the new trilogy all over again these first two have been awful
Tundra 12.15.17	I think you saw the Star Wars Wookie Holiday Special by mistake, i feel your pain
Storm In A Teacup 12.15.17	Wow this was an amazing movie but the Finn sidestory was awful. So many individual moments that are the pinnacle of Star Wars, especially the hyperspace ram break.
50iL 12.15.17	I even dug the Finn sidestory tbqh
Friday13th 12.15.17	Overall I liked it a lot. More original and impressive than the last two, but I didn't like the whole "free the poor animals" sidestory. Way too Disney and cringey. I thought the Empire/ROTJ were mostly in good taste. I think Rey lifted a line straight from ROTJ which crossed a line, but the plot was unpredictable enough to overcome those moments. The final third is great all the way through [2]
Sevengill 12.15.17	I was so happy to have a story that didn't involve blowing up a Death Star that I forgot to dislike anything about it.
Friday13th 12.15.17	^ haha almost felt too good to be true
Trophycase 12.15.17	Fake/shilled reviews I'm sure. "Better than Empire Strikes Back" means nothing.
TumsFestival 12.15.17	There were about 4 masterful scenes, everything that Star Wars should be. The rest ranges from pretty good to great.
Faraudo 12.15.17	Incredible film.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	So good! I didn't think a SW could ever surprise me like this one did.
sempiturtle 12.15.17	So... I saw the movie, and the Kylo/Rey parts were all pretty great. But almost everything involving Finn, Rose, and Poe felt dull and meaningless. That casino side plot was pointless.
Sevengill 12.15.17	Yeah idk what was up with the casino thing. They could have axed that and the hacker dude who turned out to be a lame one-off character.
Faraudo 12.15.17	I even dug the Finn sidestory tbqh (2)
sempiturtle 12.15.17	Overall I'd probably rank this just above ROTS, putting it behind the OT, Rogue One, and VII. 7/10.
sempiturtle 12.15.17	Also, I felt a major lack of consequences with all the ridiculous near deaths to main characters... when a certain someone makes a suicidal decision, there has to be consequence as a result, or else the stakes in the storytelling fall flat. If you've seen the film you know which scene I'm talking about. Honestly, the whole film really had a "Game of Thrones Season 7" feel, which really made it just ok to me.
unclereich 12.15.17	Easily the worst of all 8
baldymort 12.15.17	Rose is the worst character in the Star Wars franchise
Storm In A Teacup 12.15.17	Agreed! I was hoping Rose died in the crash.
Storm In A Teacup 12.15.17	Im impressed they managed to make one battle an entire movie but the way it was done wasn't the best. Needs a directors cut but I suspect when I see it again I will think it is a top 5 Star Wars movie.
Toondude10 12.15.17	"Rose is the worst character in the Star Wars franchise" you're forgetting a certain character in the prequels
Gyromania 12.15.17	jar jar is a sith lord though. one of the coolest characters
Valkoor952 12.15.17	The movie is straight up bad, and Disney knows people will eat this garbage up. It totally destroys any sort of resolution from the original saga and it also destroys the most interesting aspects of TFA ( and god knows there were few) and thus managing to create even more plot holes. Disney can suck my dick at this point, Star Wars is pretty much over for me. This trilogy at least.
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	Ok so obvious spoilers but I dunno man. Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers It was good, but not great. Captain Phasma ended up being a fucking waste of a character. We STILL don't really know shit about the First Order. Kylo is NOT that threatening in comparison to Rey so I think he's a really weird main villain - especially someone as emotionally conflicted as him. I thought the Rey twist was pretty weak as well tbh. Also did anyone give a flying fuck about the Finn storyline? Like...anyone? Don't get me wrong, there was a lot I liked, but I was also disappointed.
Gyromania 12.15.17	wth is everyone's deal with tfa? sure, it was a blatant ripoff of a new hope, but who cares? it was a clever strategical move to reintroduce star wars to a new generation of viewers while evoking nostalgia from older generations, and only acts as a stepping stone in establishing the new characters and direction. do people ever just have fun at the movies, instead of expecting a revolutionary viewing experience?
TheSpirit 12.15.17	I'm not sure why everyone is so fixated on Finn's story, it ended up being a "waste" but at the time it was a necessary journey and it had some pretty cool scenes. Also, does he not warrant his own adventure and time on screen? Finn is honestly a fucking joy to watch, and even though whatshername is kind of bland, those scenes were fun and a great contrast to the peril of the Resistance. Not to mention Benecio Del Toro's character was really interesting, and I hope we get to see more of him in the next movie. I'm also not sure about Kylo as a main villain, but I'm eager to see the struggle for power between him and Hux that I feel this was leading up to. And, I really hope we still find out more about Snoke. I wasn't expecting what happened w/him at all, and that moment was awesome, but also kind of a headscratcher. Finally, Lukes' arc was amazing. It was nice to see that he didn't become some pious, perfect Jedi, but still had crazy flaws and made mistakes. I'm glad he reflected on the folly of the Jedi. And that scene with him by the tree w/Yoda made me so happy. Overall, solid 8/10. Also, what Gyro said.
Toondude10 12.15.17	"And, I really hope we still find out more about Snoke. I wasn't expecting what happened w/him at all, and that moment was awesome, but also kind of a headscratcher." That's definitely my biggest problem with the movie. For someone who was built up to be this supposedly incredible villain we don't really know anything about him. I'm hoping they at least explore his backstory a bit more in the next one.
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	@Spirit - Finn just felt like a totally unconnected storyline B to me with the freeing the animals and the forced romance and all that stuff but yeah the Benecio Del Toro shit was fantastic. Eh. I am disappointed so far and we only have one movie left. I actually really liked him as a character this movie, I just wish he wasn't the main villain. He really doesn't strike me as a really imposing villainous force - I get that's the point, but the point sucks lol Agreed, everything Luke was fucking awesome. I can see people being thrown off by where they took his character but I loved all of those scenes, Hamill killed it. @Gyro - TFA was fun, but I mean did we REALLY need another death star? And Rey not really having to overcome much, just being super fucking powerful? I did enjoy it but it was far from the masterpiece that everyone was claiming it was. It was fun, that was it.
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	And yeah agreed on Snoke. That was a really cool "holy shit" moment but storywise it was a really weird choice.
Friday13th 12.15.17	For being the most over-the-top Star Wars movie since ROTS, it was good. I enjoyed watching all TFA characters. Not so sure about the new characters, like everything the pink-haired lady did could have been Admiral Akbar. Episode IX needs to answer a lot of questions, too. I bet Disney is gonna make us buy some nerd fiction novel just to find out who Snoke is. All the elaborate theories about him being a reincarnated past villain are probably out.
kris. 12.15.17	i loved the fuck out of it, warts and all, but i'm a massive star wars fanboi and easy to please
neekafat 12.15.17	9.5/10 not gonna lie
Tundra 12.15.17	I even dug the Finn sidestory tbqh [3] And guess what, this movie i loved nearly as much as Empire, if not the same (interchangeable for no 1)
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	Wow, glad you fellas enjoyed it so much. I will say that the Kylo + Rey team up was one of the coolest fucking scenes I have ever seen in any Star Wars anything. Not really ready to say that I loved the movie, though. I liked Logan and John Wick 2 more this year personally
kris. 12.15.17	i'm really excited to see what Rian Johnson can do without JJ's backstory to follow up on. this new trilogy is going to be fantastic.
KjSwantko 12.15.17	" I will say that the Kylo + Rey team up was one of the coolest fucking scenes I have ever seen in any Star Wars anything" [2] I'm not a fan of Star Wars really, and never understand the hype....but that scene was pretty sweet agreed.
RunOfTheMill 12.15.17	Oh man it was so good, what a great movie
Tundra 12.15.17	"I will say that the Kylo + Rey team up was one of the coolest fucking scenes I have ever seen in any Star Wars anything" [3] The choreography in that scene was so brilliant...
TheSpirit 12.15.17	I want more knights of ren ... or really any knights of ren
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	I want some fucking explanation of why everything reverted back to what it was after the glorious, successful battle of Return of the Jedi.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	i think they may have a book or two out that kind of explains at bit of how the new order formed or what happened but i don't remember
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	Yeah that's kind of bullshit though. Don't get me wrong, I was an English major so I love to read but that shouldn't be a requirement for such a major franchise like this.
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	maybe 7.5/10
TheSpirit 12.15.17	I suppose! But doing stuff like this is so heavily ingrained in SW and kind of always has been, so while yeah, a movie explanation would be great, i don't think it's too shocking if they decided to do it through a novel.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	the next movie still has a lot of explaining to do, so maybe we will find out then!
Space Jester 12.15.17	Is no one going to mention the First Order capital ahip getting sliced in half by the Resistance girl’s suicide hyperspace jump? My jaw dropped
KjSwantko 12.15.17	Yeah dude she was pretty hot too for her age. A shame.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	leia in space was nuts too
Valkoor952 12.15.17	Just cause I'm pretty disappointed in the franchise as a whole, I'll be making a long list about the exact reasons this movie is awful and how it butchers the legacy that the OT created
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	Leia in space didn't land for me tbh, it was weird I'm really happy they showed her use the force but the execution felt cheesy to me
Gyromania 12.15.17	^how's life in your elitist land of nostalgia?
neekafat 12.15.17	Def one of the best films of the year
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	"^how's life in your elitist land of nostalgia?" Lmao fuck off dude, just because I didn't love the movie doesn't mean I'm an elitist. I don't think that I'm right and you're wrong or anything.
neekafat 12.15.17	"I want some fucking explanation of why everything reverted back to what it was after the glorious, successful battle of Return of the Jedi." Huge [2] Though I would say that this did a much better job of justifying the revertion
Gyromania 12.15.17	comment was directed at valk sry lol
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	Oh my bad dude lol
dathvada321 12.15.17	This has a splat from audiences on rotten tomatoes...
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	Ahaha damn son
kris. 12.15.17	sad basement dweller virgins r sad cuz rian ruined their franchise
Toondude10 12.15.17	I like how they're saying it "destroyed" the franchise yet they don't explain how
dathvada321 12.15.17	"sad basement dweller virgins r sad cuz rian ruined their franchise" "People dislike a movie I like? Must be basement dweller virgins!" This is a very fanboyish thing to say lmao "I like how they're saying it "destroyed" the franchise yet they don't explain how" I think the people who are upset are just mad about what they did with Luke Skywalker. And how basically everything the OT characters accomplished has been made worthless in these new movies. "Destroyed the franchise" is a dramatic way of putting it, but I do think it's poor storytelling.
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	Yeah I mean if you scroll up I mentioned a bunch of things I didn't love about the movie as well. I did really like what direction they took Luke in but I would totally understand if that would not be everyone's preferred interpretation of where that character would be now.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	It was bound to happen the moment they decided to make movies that followed after The Return of the Jedi. The extended universe originally STOMPED ALL OVER EVERYONE and people ate it the fuck up. It's a new generation! There needs to be conflict! The Empire was too big of a threat to just fucking disappear, even after the Emperor dies. Part of the balance of the force is that darkness exists!And always will! What's happening in these movies shouldn't diminish the accomplishments of the OT characters.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	Also, I think Luke had a beautiful send off. He got to the hero one last time, kept the spark of the resistance alive by buying them time.
anarchistfish 12.15.17	kinda underwhelming humour took me way out the movie. that joke between Hux and Poe right at the start of the film made me cringe and unfortunately the whole film carried on down that line. dialogue in general felt really out of place and contributed to the tone of the film feeling really confused story was kinda disjointed. too many characters and it felt like there was too much going on and yet simultaneously not much going on. I don't really get what the stakes are meant to be for the next film. it felt less like the penultimate movie in an epic trilogy and more like a literal episode in a neverending saga X Men style. a lot of shit goes down but i don't feel like the story and characters (with the exception maybe of Kylo Ren but even then he lacks any menace or intrigue) have truly progressed in any meaningful way. really you're just gonna dismiss all the stuff about snoke and rey's parents? where's the love for resolving mystery? I don't feel any anticipation going into IX. it's just here's some shit that doesn't matter, here's some guy that doesn't matter being a hero (how nice is that) oh he's dead now oh snoke's dead now i guess he was just some guy that doesn't matter. come on you gotta do better than that to justify a 2 1/2 hr running time. the whole act in canto bight was basically pointless and apart from benecio del torro's character it wasn't even that good. that whole shit with rey being pulled so devastatingly to the dark side as soon as she explored the force got me hyped up i thought hell yeah we're gonna see some shit go down this movie but nope it doesn't go anywhere i guess disney wouldn't allow it anyway was personally hoping for something a bit edgier and a bit darker but it definitely felt like more of a star wars movie for the families. Even TFA had more grit also NO LIGHTSABER BATTLES WTF shit i liked: all the scenes with rey and luke on the island, that shot in the throne room after kylo kills snoke and kylo and rey go back to back with their lightsabers drawn and it goes all slow mo and shit hell yh. mark hamill and adam driver were pretty good i guess. film was also beautiful in general. that's pretty much it. gonna have to digest this for a bit obviously and im definitely gonna rewatch this eventually but yh those are my initial thoughts. TFA was far superior
TheSpirit 12.15.17	i really don't believe what Kylo said about Rey's parents, I'm holding on to hope he was lying to turn her. The Snoke death was awesome, but also agreed that I was really looking forward to finding out more about him.
dathvada321 12.15.17	"The extended universe originally STOMPED ALL OVER EVERYONE " How so? The OT characters went on to become legends in the old EU. Luke became the grandmaster of a new jedi order, Leia was the leader of the new republic, Han was Han. They went through hardships as well so it's not like it was a fun fairy tale, but they kept the spirit of the characters intact. There is a lot of stupid shit in the old EU as well, but I feel like they got the characterization right. And the accomplishments of the OT were still meaningful.
DarkSideOfLucca 12.15.17	" I don't really get what the stakes are meant to be for the next film. it felt less like the penultimate movie in an epic trilogy and more like a literal episode in a neverending saga X Men style. a lot of shit goes down but i don't feel like the story and characters" Holy shit this so fucking hard. "also NO LIGHTSABER BATTLES WTF" Dude, that Rey and Kylo teamup was one of the coolest lightsaber fight scenes ever. Also Luke vs Kylo? I mean sure he wasn't really there, but that was still fucking awesome. I see you say that in the "shit you liked" section but those count as lightsaber battles imo. Overall I agree with your takeaway, though. I left disappointed despite some fucking awesome scenes.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	"How so? The OT characters went on to become legends in the old EU. Luke became the grandmaster of a new jedi order, Leia was the leader of the new republic, Han was Han. They went through hardships as well so it's not like it was a fun fairy tale, but they kept the spirit of the characters intact. There is a lot of stupid shit in the old EU as well, but I feel like they got the characterization right. And the accomplishments of the OT were still meaningful." Basically I disagree with the assertion that this movie stomped on the OT character's legacy. Luke's sacrifice paved the way for the Resistance's second chance. His failure w/Ben shouldn't come as too much of a surprise considering he was never qualified to train another Jedi in the first place. In fact, I think the fact he become so powerful in the original extended universe is a bit weird considering how he was trained himself. Leia is still a very important political figure, and still the vivacious women we loved before. Han, well... i actually agree on that one. But overall, I don't feel like how they ended up should diminish their accomplishments, and I don't think it mucked up their legacy. I truly believe people are upset that they weren't deitified like they were in the EU.
YuriZakhaev 12.15.17	Dogshit for a SW movie Even George Lucas would say "what the fuck is this?" to the script while on his fourth Cinnabon of the day.
Toondude10 12.15.17	"Basically I disagree with the assertion that this movie stomped on the OT character's legacy. Luke's sacrifice paved the way for the Resistance's second chance. His failure w/Ben shouldn't come as too much of a surprise considering he was never qualified to train another Jedi in the first place. In fact, I think the fact he become so powerful in the original extended universe is a bit weird considering how he was trained himself. Leia is still a very important political figure, and still the vivacious women we loved before. Han, well... i actually agree on that one. But overall, I don't feel like how they ended up should diminish their accomplishments, and I don't think it mucked up their legacy. I truly believe people are upset that they weren't deitified like they were in the EU." agreed with this. I think the only character that didn't get enough development was Snoke.
dathvada321 12.15.17	@TheSpirit I disagree about Luke. The fact that he even considered killing Ben is totally out of character for the guy that believed Darth Vader could be redeemed. And the Luke of the OT would never have abandoned everyone after his failure. They turned him into a complete chump in this trilogy. Buying the Resistance a few seconds doesn't even come close to making up for that. The reason Luke becomes so powerful in the EU is because he is the son of the chosen one. According to Lucas, Anakin had twice the potential of any Force user ever, but due to his injuries he never achieved that level. Luke, on the other hand, has that same potential and unlike his father was able to maximize it. When you take that into account, and the fact that he had decades to study the old Jedi ways after ROTJ ended, it makes sense that he became so strong. And the reason people are saying the OT characters legacy is tarnished is because the Empire is back and stronger than ever, there are fewer living Jedi than there were at the start of the OT, the Rebels are weaker than ever, and the New Republic is destroyed. So basically everything they achieved was for nothing. The galaxy is in a worse state than it has been since the end of ROTS. The OT was for nothing.
Valkoor952 12.15.17	Dathvda has the right idea
anarchistfish 12.15.17	that rotten tomatoes audience score though, damn. interesting that it isn't reflected in the critics' scores nor imdb. this movie is clearly quite divisive though
TheSpirit 12.15.17	"The fact that he even considered killing Ben is totally out of character for the guy that believed Darth Vader could be redeemed. And the Luke of the OT would never have abandoned everyone after his failure. They turned him into a complete chump in this trilogy. Buying the Resistance a few seconds doesn't even come close to making up for that" He becomes Palpatine's apprentice in the EU and idk that seems very out of character, and yet it was pretty widely accepted. I feel like people vastly overestimate Luke's wisdom and mental fortitude. Obviously he's still great, but I don't see why people can't accept that like everyone else, he has flaws. I accept that in the EU he had more time to acclimate to his role and plant the seed of new order and that he's the son of the chosen one, but he was still overpowered IMO. "And the reason people are saying the OT characters legacy is tarnished is because the Empire is back and stronger than ever, there are fewer living Jedi than there were at the start of the OT, the Rebels are weaker than ever, and the New Republic is destroyed. So basically everything they achieved was for nothing. The galaxy is in a worse state than it has been since the end of ROTS. The OT was for nothing." I feel like people forget that the Rebels didn't destroy the Empire in ROTJ. They killed Palpatine and obviously struck a blow by blowing up the Deathstar, but they were still extremely powerful and embedded in the fabric of the galaxy they had shaped under the Emperor for the past 30+ years. And under Thrawn, they almost reached another golden age. Not to mention once again, the Yuuzhan Vong, which destroyed everything. I mean, I know it's many years down the line from the OT when that happens, but doesn't that technically render the original series "useless"? Everything they built gets destroyed. Also, I'm glad they aren't doing something as neat as once they (the republic) wins, then that's it, nothing else to be worried about, or the Empire can't come back swinging. Like I said before, they are embedded in that universe. I understand people's gripes and would never try to tell someone how to feel about the movie or whatever. But I just feel like some of the complaints don't make much sense, at least not to me.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	The unapologetic SW fanboyism doesn't help me either, haha. It just hurts my heart when people rag on it SO HARD.
dathvada321 12.15.17	"He becomes Palpatine's apprentice in the EU and idk that seems very out of character" This was stupid agreed. "I feel like people forget that the Rebels didn't destroy the Empire in ROTJ. They killed Palpatine and obviously struck a blow by blowing up the Deathstar, but they were still extremely powerful and embedded in the fabric of the galaxy they had shaped under the Emperor for the past 30+ years. And under Thrawn, they almost reached another golden age. Not to mention once again, the Yuuzhan Vong, which destroyed everything. I mean, I know it's many years down the line from the OT when that happens, but doesn't that technically render the original series "useless"? Everything they built gets destroyed. Also, I'm glad they aren't doing something as neat as once they (the republic) wins, then that's it, nothing else to be worried about, or the Empire can't come back swinging. Like I said before, they are embedded in that universe." Well I don't have an issue with the Empire having a powerful remnant, they took it way too far when they obliterated the New Republic. The Republic and the Jedi still existed after the Vong war, so no they didn't destroy everything.
Toondude10 12.15.17	"they took it way too far when they obliterated the New Republic." umm, it's what the Empire wanted to do in the first place.
dathvada321 12.15.17	@Toon I'm talking about the writers lol
sempiturtle 12.15.17	The Empire only existed for like 22 years total... the time gap between Jedi and Awakens was longer than the Empire's entire existence.
dathvada321 12.15.17	So?
sempiturtle 12.15.17	I was responding to TheSpirit. The Empire was not extremely powerful after ROTJ, they were done except for a few rogue Imperials here and there.
TheSpirit 12.15.17	In the EU, the Empire was still very strong and very much a threat after the Battle of Endor. I'm not sure what the retconned history is now for the new series, but in I guess what's now legends, the Empire still had significant forces in the unknown parts of the universe, as well as Thrawn, who almost destroyed the New Republic. Then during the resurrected Emperor arc, the New Republic was once again, in peril. The Empire up until around the Yuuzhan Vong, was still a decent threat.
Valkoor952 12.15.17	"how's life in your elitist land of nostalgia?" It's actually called competent filmmaking.
Ignimbrite 12.15.17	yeah just saw it, it was fucking amazing and the whining from the fandom absolutely baffles me and holy shit was the lightspeed kamikaze beautiful or what
RunOfTheMill 12.15.17	"and holy shit was the lightspeed kamikaze beautiful or what" yessssssssssssssss
anarchistfish 12.15.17	Has anyone here played Kotor? this trilogy has a lot of Kotor vibes and themes (force connections between force users, the concept of being cut off from the force etc). I dig that
Ignimbrite 12.15.17	OLD REPUBLIC TRILOGY WHEN
anarchistfish 12.15.17	^^^
kris. 12.15.17	i was hoping rian's new trilogy would be at least kotor-adjacent but he straight-up said nah even though he loved the time period and the game so : (
Devastator 12.15.17	People are think Rian Johnson’s trilogy will be Old republic based.
kris. 12.15.17	https://io9.gizmodo.com/knights-of-the-old-republic-wont-be-rian-johnsons-new-s-1821025660 people are wrong
anarchistfish 12.15.17	it just wouldn't sell. ask the average person about the old republic and theyd be like wat.
demigod! 12.15.17	st0ked to see it next week, if only for the hamboi himself
anarchistfish 12.15.17	hamill was one of the stand outs of the movie not that that's saying much lul
ChoccyPhilly 12.15.17	Man I was so disappointed by this. The Force Awakens was a lot more enjoyable
ChoccyPhilly 12.15.17	In detail: So many pointless, anti-climactic motivations. So Finn and Rose need to find to find a codebreaker, oh they get captured. Ok, so now they need to find a way out. Ok, now they need to lose the tracking system, oh they get captured again. Like, what is the point? After so many changes, it just feels like a pointless side journey. And fuck that kiss. Snoke was built up to be such a huge, ominous figure with a secret past. Alright, so please, enlighten me more with tis badass motherfucker, oh wait, he dies and gets zero development. But Kylo gets all the development? Ok, that I actually think was done very well. In TFA, Rey and Kylo are awful fighters. They lug their sabers around like they weigh 40kg, and rightfully so! The fighting was way more interesting there because neither were perfect and it was noticeable, yet somehow Rey is super agile and knows her way around a lightsaber now when fighting against Snoke's guards. Those small things from TFA really sold it to me and it sucks how they abandoned it. Lady in the purple hair was annoying. yes, good in the end but they didnt have to make her SEEM so annoying when she's first introduced. I like me some humour but damn, there was too much here and in too many inappropriate scenes that detracted from the atmosphere.
MeatSalad 12.15.17	Most people seem to be completely shitting on the movie, aside from critics which mostly dick suck it. Weirdly large gap between the two groups
unclereich 12.16.17	Its the worst movie ive seen in a long ass time Thank god the disaster artist was so good
TheSpirit 12.16.17	choccy - that lightsaber comment is super interesting actually. I didn't really realize until just now that TFA happen within a few days.
Trophycase 12.16.17	"Most people seem to be completely shitting on the movie, aside from critics which mostly dick suck it. Weirdly large gap between the two groups" You don't spend 250 million dollars making a movie (more if you amortize the lucasfilm acquisition costs) only to let critics shit all over it. You pay those mofos off.
Ignimbrite 12.16.17	Lol, “I disagree with the critics so they’re obviously paid shills”
Trophycase 12.16.17	I haven't even seen the movie dude. All I'm saying is that this movie is multiple hundreds of millions in investment, and if the general consensus thusfar is extremely far different from what critics are saying, you have to be a little skeptical.
grannypantys 12.16.17	"You don't spend 250 million dollars making a movie (more if you amortize the lucasfilm acquisition costs) only to let critics shit all over it. You pay those mofos off." or just intimidate them. Not hard considering you can ban anyone from screenings and own almost all media.
Trophycase 12.16.17	Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. I've heard that is a tactic used by Disney but I had forgotten. Deny that publication screenings from future movies if they give a bad review.
polyrhythm 12.16.17	Some small gripes, but overall I found it very satisfying. The Rey, Kylo and Luke arcs were particularly great
AlexKzillion 12.16.17	Just saw it SPOILERS Okay so a lot I didn't like about this movie >not a fan of the slow-mo scenes at all, not because they didn't look nice, but because there's never been slow-motion in any of the movies before and I would have rather it be kept that way >Leia all the sudden being able to use the force when she really needs to is fucking bullshit tbqh >So Snoke went from being someone prob more powerful than the Emperor and possibly being Darth Plageuis w/e to just like not mattering at all? Okay. Also they kept saying "Ooh yeah Snoke got to Kylo and there was nothing Luke could do" but like fucking how? >Luke's force ghost fight with Kylo was dumb because Kylo should have realized that that wasn't actually Luke because a) they shot at him non stop for a good 5 minutes and he didn't even get scratched and b) Luke had the og blue lightsaber, the same one that him and Rey just destroyed like 10 minutes prior... also how could Luke just tangibly insert himself onto that planet or whatever? Dude is not that powerful of a Jedi >Also the movie presents that purple haired lady to be Leia's best friend but like how? Biggs 2.0, this time with a much larger role!
AlexKzillion 12.16.17	Also the pacing kinda sucked and it felt like the credits were gonna start rolling at any time
swipenet 12.16.17	It was pretty good tbh
swipenet 12.16.17	Maybe not as amazing as the ratings indicate tho
Sevengill 12.16.17	@AlexK > okay > yeah that was dumb > idk I guess we'll learn in two years or something > Luke is that powerful > I didn't like her anyway
rebeccasugar1979 12.16.17	The only reason I watch it is because Rian Johnson. Guy directed Brick and Looper. Anyway, my favorite bit was one the soldier in the third act touches the ground and says “salt!” So the audience knows the scene is not a total rip off of Empire Strikes Back. It’s not snow ... it’s salt! Totally different. My problems with the movie: - The humor was so misplaced. It was too frequent and too contrived. Some of the jokes honesty felt like something from Space Balls (eg that awkward phone prank joke between Hux and Poe). - The characters initially felt like they could be something fun and cool after The Force Awakens, by now it’s clear every character is a boring rehash of old characters. Rey is Luke, Luke is Yoda, Poe is Han, Kylo is Anakin, etc. - Porgs. It’s not just that they are an obvious marketing ploy; it’s that they still were so lazy about it that they couldn’t even try to make Porgs relevant to the plot. Ewoks were a marketing ploy too; at least they made them serve a purpose. -The second act dragged. This movie did not need to be as long as it did. They were telling two stories on two different tracks and I think they couldn’t figure out how to pace them together well—but also didn’t want you to forget about the other story so they didn’t want to leave you alone too long with one. The result is a lot of boring, unnecessary scenes. -The overall narrative structure seems off. Last movie isn’t out yet, so I can’t totally judge, but I think the movie failed as the middle piece. Our heroes are supposed to be at their nadir here. In one sense they are: the resistance is basically a couple idiots flying around a cruiser with a teenager. But emotionally I didn’t feel like they were. It seemed like it ended on a high point: (We got away! Yay!) Theres no equivalent of some gut wrenching loss-like Han In carbonite. Luke does die—but it didn’t have that same impact because his character had basically done everything he was supposed to. -Also—we don’t really see where they are going in the third film. Nothing is really set up. At the end of Empire we had a sense of direction. After this movie? Eh. More star battles I guess?
AlexKzillion 12.16.17	"> idk I guess we'll learn in two years or something" I really don't feel like we will honestly... prob just a place holder for Kylo like how Dooku was for Vader "> Luke is that powerful" Dude literally duplicated himself onto an entirely different planet and went back and forth from being a ghost that couldn't be touched by anything and being a tangible thing that could hug Liea and have a legit lightsaber duel with Kylo. It would make no sense if Yoda or the Emperor did it, let alone fucking Luke.
Storm In A Teacup 12.16.17	It's a fairly common force power in many Star Wars stories.
CaliggyJack 12.16.17	Seeing it tomorrow, pretty pumped. I became a fan of Rian Johnson after seeing Looper. Dude knows Science Fiction.
unclereich 12.16.17	This garbage makes looper seem like citizen kane
MeatSalad 12.16.17	I'm going to watch it with the expectation being it's one of those family guy-tier star wars parodies and maybe it'll be dumb fun that doesn't shit all over my childhood
anarchistfish 12.16.17	the force was one of the best done things in the movie tbh. love that they used ideas from Kotor
unclereich 12.16.17	Kotor 2 and battlefront 2(2005) were the last truly great star wars products
unclereich 12.16.17	The whole movie did not accomplish anything its as bad as attack of the clones
unclereich 12.16.17	Big ship follows little ship for 1 hour because little ship is slightly faster.
unclereich 12.16.17	The acting is about as wooden as episodes i-iii. The pace is that of a sloth on horse tranquilizers. Its easily the worst movie ive ever paid money for.
unclereich 12.16.17	We watched a different film
unclereich 12.16.17	Waiting for the new yeezys to drop
Faraudo 12.16.17	"It has mistakes and some dissapointing stuff but as a whole is pretty good and enoyable. Is far better than the prequels and a little bit better than the episode VII" Very fair assessment.
Tunaboy45 12.16.17	fucking loved it, it was definitely better than TFA
Tunaboy45 12.16.17	the subversive elements like Rey's backstory and everything with Luke were perfect, Kylo Ren is probably the most interesting character in all of Star Wars and the scene in Snoke's chamber was just something else
Tunaboy45 12.16.17	oh also just from a visual perspective, cutting through the ships at warp speed was beautiful
polyrhythm 12.16.17	Tuna gets it
dathvada321 12.16.17	The Rey Kylo stuff was pretty good. I liked Hamill in this, but hate that they made it his fault that Ben turned, then killed him off before he could redeem himself. Hated all the Finn and Rose and Poe stuff. Outside Luke, the Crait battle was super underwhelming. It was like, half a decent movie, half terrible. I would say it was more watchable than TFA because it has some legitimately good moments, whereas TFA was bland all the way through. But it also has some of the worst moments of the whole saga. I would give it a 5/10, same as TFA.
BlackMalachite 12.16.17	Luke did redeem himself though
zaruyache 12.16.17	i love how they acted like Finn was going to have an actual character arc, but then rose just deux ex machina'd him at the last second. Way to sacrifice quality for maintaining your franchise character $$$.
AlexKzillion 12.16.17	Idky they kept Leia alive throughout the whole movie when they said she's not gonna be in IX at all
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.16.17	"where's the love for resolving mystery?" ask lynch.
Papa Universe 12.16.17	you could ask lynch, but i doubt anyone needs an overlong fetishistic visual lobotomy instead of a straight answer...
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.16.17	congrats on identifying the obvious implication
Papa Universe 12.16.17	i could congratulate myself, but i doubt anyone needs an overlong fetishistic visual lobotomy instead of a straight answer and i think my mental disorder has completely taken over me now
Sinternet 12.16.17	posting here and not reading this thread yet because havent seen yet and want a reminder to go fuckling apeshit and type 50 comments about how much i love it when i do go see it
anarchistfish 12.16.17	"Idky they kept Leia alive throughout the whole movie when they said she's not gonna be in IX at all" IX will probably be set some time after VIII i reckon
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.16.17	@papa lol nice
polyrhythm 12.16.17	what'd you think of the movie pots?
dathvada321 12.16.17	"Luke did redeem himself though" How? The Jedi are still dead, Ben is still evil, he didn't finish training Rey...
zaruyache 12.16.17	He died so the rebels could escape, renewing his status as a powerful legend--probably something they'll reference as being what reignites the rebellion.
Toondude10 12.16.17	He gave them hope yeah cheesy I know, but still
Papa Universe 12.16.17	A new hope strikes back as the jedi returns.
dathvada321 12.16.17	I feel like that doesn't come close to making up for his failure.
zaruyache 12.17.17	It doesn't really, but it was the most he was going to do on his own. He was too old to be a soldier, and the rest of the rebellion was too small for his leadership to matter there.
NorwichScene 12.17.17	Jedi still dead? You not see the broom at the end?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.17.17	first half was crap second half was coo
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.17.17	that broom shit was whack tho like LCD pandering like that is so cringey
Wildhoney 12.17.17	movie was horseshit.
NorwichScene 12.17.17	My mate missed it lol
Wildhoney 12.17.17	feels like rian johnson was contractually obligated to feed his script to a horse named disney and then put to film the shit-stained remnants
Rowan5215 12.17.17	this was about an hour and a half of a really good movie and about an hour of absolute garbage higher hit rate than almost all Star Wars movies tbf and Kylo Ren is the only actually good character in the whole franchise but ye Rian has better things to be doing
Dewinged 12.17.17	Just watched it, loved all the Star Wars(ness) but fuck Walt Disney (the true Empire btw). Action packed, super fun, but I was forced to believe n accept.
Papa Universe 12.17.17	i dunno, i thought it was by far one of the most consistent SW movies ever. no boring moments, no filler, all killer. but i see that most people tend to think the exact opposite...
AlexKzillion 12.17.17	The movie was like a 90 minute ejaculation yeah
Papa Universe 12.17.17	it is the officially longest SW movie, but it feels like the shortest. that's how consistent and fun it is.
Toondude10 12.17.17	didn't feel short to me. If anything it definitely felt like the 152 minute runtime but I honestly don't have a problem with that.
neekafat 12.17.17	I really did think it felt short haha I just wanted more
Papa Universe 12.17.17	i heard that the director's cut is about three hours long... so, more finn and rose stuff, i guess.
Kalopsia 12.17.17	as much as I wanted to love this movie.. it was kinda shit. it has some of my new fav Star Wars moments ever, but but there is waaay too much bad writing and storytelling to make this an overall positive for me.
Wildhoney 12.17.17	^exactly. Some great aspects to the movie, but there's so much to hate that it poisons the whole thing
Drummerboy123 12.17.17	Easily the most refreshing Star Wars film to date. 1. Glad they killed Snoke, he was an Emperor wannabe and Kylo is a way more interesting antagonist, especially due to his connection to Rey. 2. Rey's parents being nobodies is a good move, too many people went in with theories and nobody knows what the fuck is gonna happen in episode 9 which I love. Why does everyone need to be a Solo, Kenobi or Skywalker? it's old. 3. Finn and Rose's subplot sucked ass and should've been cut and the CGI was a iffy at best. 4. Kinda wish Leia was the one to do that light speed attack with the ship, it would've been a nice sendoff. 5. Mark Hamill fucking rocked as Luke, I was worried I'd just see old Mark Hamill but there were genuine moments were I was like "Nah, that's Luke right there". Kinda hoped for some force unleashed shit at the end with the AT-ATs but it was a clever twist. He should be back as a force ghost in 9. 6. So many cool callbacks that gave me chills. 7. The pacing was too quick at times, I swear I saw like 3 wipe transitions in a minute haha. 8. The throne room scene was amazing. 9. It was a lot more humorous than I thought it would be 10. People take these films too fucking seriously, people complain about some things being unrealistic yet you're watching a film where the force exists...it's always been meant for kids - in fact when I saw it there was a kid who went "Wow!" during the lightspeed scene. That's what Star Wars is all about. Thank the maker this film shook up the mythology, it was desperately needed. People who complain simply had their own vision of the film which was a generic vision that the OG trilogy already did. 8/10
Scoot 12.17.17	laughable that this was compared to esb that said, it's an enjoyable movie with some great scenes and some definite flaws hux should have taken out a lightsabre instead of a blaster when he was standing over kylo. would have made for a very interesting dynamic having him as snoke's secret apprentice and backup plan in case ren failed. he's a pretty lame character otherwise lightspeed suicide was awesome but it should have been admiral ackbar finn subplot was prequel-level garbage, my god they have done nothing with that character. should have been so much more depth to his decision to leave the first order. also should have actually had him sacrifice himself at the end instead of that bullshit with rose luke was okay. didn't care much for his character at first but the flashbacks with kylo were cool. the twist at the end was pretty obvious to anyone who was paying attention the leia superman scene was ehhh but reminded everyone she's force sensitive don't think that's the last we've heard from snoke even though he's physically gone. that just seemed like way too abrupt of an end for a character they could have done a lot more with
anarchistfish 12.17.17	wait what's all this broom shit? "i thought it was by far one of the most consistent SW movies ever" this was like the most inconsistent SW movie ever
anarchistfish 12.17.17	oh the dumb kid oh yh
Papa Universe 12.17.17	yeah aight
anarchistfish 12.17.17	https://youtu.be/cL5oCP0VIEI?t=19m45s 19:45-20:50 is fire and can pretty much sum up how i feel
unclereich 12.17.17	This ranks as the worst star wars movie for me and the worst movie in general ive seen in a long time. Ive seen it twice now
anarchistfish 12.17.17	yh this is below ROTS
neekafat 12.17.17	So glad me and Papa see eye-to-eye on this for once
Valkoor952 12.17.17	This is below ROTS (2)
unclereich 12.17.17	Rots is better than tfa
anarchistfish 12.17.17	nah
Drummerboy123 12.17.17	"nd the Luke of the OT would never have abandoned everyone after his failure." It's been 30 fucking years dude...people change over that time.
Ignimbrite 12.17.17	are all the people complaining about Luke pretending that he didn't almost kill his father in a blind rage in RotJ fucking nerds
wwf 12.17.17	there's so much bullshit to talk about in this movie but Rose crashing into Finn and stopping his poorly set-up sacrifice was one of the most viciously dumb things I've seen in a blockbuster in a long time that's some unrestrained fucking crazy on her part and should've gotten them both killed I mean where did she even come from
Drummerboy123 12.17.17	"You don't spend 250 million dollars making a movie (more if you amortize the lucasfilm acquisition costs) only to let critics shit all over it. You pay those mofos off." Batman V Superman cost 300 mill and was fucking torn apart by critics.
wwf 12.17.17	It's so hard to explain how this movie was poorly written, but it's like every single decision they made ended up kind of undercutting the gravitas that was set up pretty well in TFA And surprisingly enough, the most accurate review I've seen talking about this movie so far was actually the AngryJoeShow, who normally I totally disagree with I liked what the movie did with Snoke and with Rey's parentage (I thought those were red herrings to begin with) but they're totally right about the movie not having the balls to really do anything 100%, they constantly flip-flop on almost every character and the tone is all over the place and it just doesn't work, the writing just isn't solid enough to connect all the dots well There's some parts I really liked but goddamn was it a frustrating and sort of boring watch
Toondude10 12.17.17	@drummer don't forget all the transformers movies
Drummerboy123 12.17.17	"And surprisingly enough, the most accurate review I've seen talking about this movie so far was actually the AngryJoeShow, who normally I totally disagree with" Oh god that review...here we fucking go; 1. The death of Luke was justified because he bought time for the resistance and gave them hope...ya know...like A NEW HOPE. His death was very symmetrical with when we see him with the two suns in the distance. I thought it was beautifully done. Going out in a blaze of glory is so fucking generic...Jesus Christ I would've been bored to tears with the film some fans wanted this to be. 2. Luke never said Kylo was "a little bit dark", he said he'd never seen such darkness before and knew it would mean tons of people would die if he kept Kylo alive...AND HE STILL KEPT HIM ALIVE! Interesting note - how many times have you watched a show or film and thought "If X killed Y this would be over straight away", but that doesn't apply for Luke apparently...you want him to keep a threat to the galaxy alive? The problem complainers have is that they want Luke to be this perfect Jedi incapable of fault and that is so goddamn one dimensional. Characters with no flaws aren't interesting, that's basic writing 101. Mark Hamill did say he wasn't a fan of the script 'till Rian Johnson explained why Luke does what he does. "That's not how the universe works" Del you don't speak for Star Wars, jeez what the fuck happened to just having fun instead of over-analysing what is essential a kids film? 3. Snoke was boring as fuck. Even Del said he wanted him to be Emperor Palpatine...are you serious? You literally just want the original trilogy...it exists, go watch it. Kylo is way more intriguing as a big bad then this emperor wannabe. I agree with the way he went out like a bitch was annoying but he was overconfident in his abilities, I guess that's where people are split. He can force push some people around so he's omnipotent? GTFO. 4. I agree, FInn and Rose were terrible, I think that's the only thing everyone agrees on. 5. Okay so who are Rey's parents? Luke? Boring. Han? Boring. Obi-wan? Boring. The fact people need some sort of special lineage to feel connected to a character is sad, it takes good writing for you to care about nobody. They could be lazy and say "Yep, she's Rey Skywalker!" and you'd be more attached. What you want is terrible and lazy writing.
Tunaboy45 12.17.17	I'm surprised the fans are turning on this
Drummerboy123 12.17.17	6. Leia is a force user, what's the surprise? She's Vader's daughter. 7. I agree, Phasma was wasted. 8. The humour did catch me off guard but AGAIN you're basically wanting this to be Empire Strikes Back when you say "Oh I thought this would be the dark film"...goddamn Star Wars can't win. Be like Empire, get criticised. Be different, get criticised. But I found it pretty damn funny, even Empire has a lot of funny moments in it. 9. JJ's subplots were always gonna be disappointing reveals. Rey is a Skywalker, Snoke is Darth Plageuis...who else were they gonna be? You would've been enraged that you predicted it. 10. The map thing I never noticed and that's a genuine criticism. If Luke wanted to be left alone he never should've made a map to his location.
Rowan5215 12.17.17	God is JJ really doin the third movie in the trilogy? that's gonna be a pile of shit at this rate the script for Last Jedi was pretty shoddy but goddamn if Rian didn't direct the hell out of it. Easily the best looking film of the whole franchise
Faraudo 12.17.17	I agree with Drummerboy 100%, especially with everything Snoke-related. He was a means to an end, to get Kylo to finally be the bad guy that he's meant to be. Why the fuck would I want another generic emperor or whatever. He was a fucking hologram on the previous movie, why would I even care about him on the first place. Why would anyone care? Yeah, he was kind of intriguing, but still, he was a generic overlord barking orders and talking about how dissapointed he is on his disciple not being that terrible of a person. People is obviously entitled to their opinions, but damn, some of the complains about the movie are stupid as shit. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a breath of fresh air for the franchise, and the fact that everyone wants the same thing over and over in their Star Wars stories is very tiresome. (Logan movie spoilers ahead) Luke's death kinda reminded me of Charles Xavier's death. I heard some people complaining about how "unremarkable" it was, and I thought to myself "what the fuck were you expecting for a 90-year old crippled mutant with seizures, a mega explosion in the backround?" I mean, yes, Luke could've had a showdown with Kylo, but that would've been such a cheap, repetitive and redundant sendoff. The movie definitely has some faults, but overall is one of the best in the whole franchise. And from a visual standpoint, it is absolutely gorgeous.
Toondude10 12.17.17	"6. Leia is a force user, what's the surprise? She's Vader's daughter." yeah but even so that scene where she went all Superman was really weird that it was actually kind of hilarious.
ChoccyPhilly 12.17.17	@Drummer, it's not the fact that these things happened, it's the fact that all of TFA had set up themes that were to be explored in the following film. It makes sense to explore Snoke and who Rey's parents are when they were the focal point of TFA. For it to be thrown away on cheap plots for quick 5 minute ideas that come out of nowhere is poor filmaking on any level, star wars or not.
Toondude10 12.17.17	"He was a means to an end, to get Kylo to finally be the bad guy that he's meant to be. Why the fuck would I want another generic emperor or whatever." Maybe, but even then he was built up to be this really sinister villain and to kill him off without knowing who he was or his connection to Kylo Ren is pretty disappointing.
Faraudo 12.17.17	Why would I want them to explore such an uninteresting character as Snoke?
ChoccyPhilly 12.17.17	I actually dont mind that Rey's parents are nobodies. It ties in well with what Luke says about how the force shouldn't solely be controlled by the jedis, but then now all that curiosity, intrigue and more importantly, CHARACTER MOTIVATION is thrown away. What exactly is Rey fighting for? She literally just met the rebels a few days ago, is she supposed to be a martyr for them now? Or is she just THAT into Kylo Ren not being evil. I don't fucking buy it.
Faraudo 12.17.17	I mean yes, he's in there and all, but to me, he was kind of intriguing at best.
kevbogz 12.17.17	movie was ass, but hey, new Star Wars *shrug
Faraudo 12.17.17	It's just that I really don't care about Snoke, i'm more than ok with him being there just for Kylo to take over. I think that Rey's main motivation is more of a "what should I do with all this power inside me/where do I belong" kinda thing. Yeah, her parents' thing was there, but it never felt like a main motivation to me, it felt like a shallow motivation to hide her true motivations.
Faraudo 12.17.17	I mean, I would be pretty fucking confused if all of a sudden I discover that I have powers.
ChoccyPhilly 12.18.17	I didnt care for Snoke either, but TFA made him seem like an important figure, so why did he get zero development? That would be like TFA setting up Poe as an important character for him to get shot down in the opening scene. I thought he was a complete arse in the last jedi, but doesnt mean it would be good if he just died off. And if Rey's power is her true motivation then why was such little time dedicated to her acquiring and harnessing such power? We're told several times from Kylo, Snoke and Luke that she's powerful but we dont see her learn and develop naturally and oh look, she can dismantle Snoke's guards with ease... ok...?
Faraudo 12.18.17	"I didnt care for Snoke either, but TFA made him seem like an important figure, so why did he get zero development? " Maybe because Rian Johnson didn't gave a fuck about Snoke (like pretty much everyone) and thought about not following the typical Star Wars shadowy/emperor tropes that Abrams wanted to follow so badly. About Rey, yeah, that should've been developed a little bit better. Still, that's what i'm getting from her character.
ChoccyPhilly 12.18.17	Fair enough, RJ not caring about Snoke and wanting to do something different but that goes against things built from TFA. This is a sequel, not something separate that you can start anew on. Hence my point that these choices are bad filmaking given the context. None of it was inherently bad. Following theories isnt necessarily going to be good filmaking either.
Faraudo 12.18.17	I'm kinda grateful with him for taking chances, because he's getting a lot of stick for it, and I think he knew that he was going to get it. And yeah, I agree with you on that sequel part, except that he didn't started anew, because we never really knew anything from Snoke on the first place. So there's that.
Faraudo 12.18.17	We knew that he was a supreme leader, that he was deformed, and that he commanded Kylo Ren. That's about it.
ChoccyPhilly 12.18.17	Yeah, on the bright side I like his chances with his approach to Kylo Ren but yeah for the most part it was more miss than hit.
Faraudo 12.18.17	The only real miss for me was that Rose and Finn part. I thought it was Ok-ish at best, but it felt like a total departure and made the movie a little bit too long.
ChoccyPhilly 12.18.17	If I were to make a list of all the main complaints I've read about this film, that would be the one tht has definitely been the most universally hated on
Drummerboy123 12.18.17	"For it to be thrown away on cheap plots for quick 5 minute ideas that come out of nowhere is poor filmaking on any level, star wars or not." Why do you have to follow up plot points? Same thing with Admiral Ackbar...it's war, people die randomly. Oh they're an important character so they HAVE to last till the final movie of the franchise. Fuck that, Game of Thrones got huge because it said fuck you to that notion.
ChoccyPhilly 12.18.17	Ok, so if you're going for the Game of Thrones approach to death, which is perfectly acceptable, why does Leia get to survive against all the odds? Of all ships to blow up, why not Poe's and Leia? Oh because the plot requires it. And same for Finn. This isn't like Game of Thrones where actions have real consequences. Characters die when the plot calls for it or if they're insignificant extras. If it wants to be like Game of Thrones, fine but there was no consistency with that approach.
Kalopsia 12.18.17	honestly... name one character that they didn't fuck up in some way in this movie. i'll wait
zaruyache 12.18.17	bb8
Dewinged 12.18.17	When Luke came out to confront the First Order and stood there in front of them I really was expecting him to laser cut those AT legs like butter. But nope. What followed was a Monty Python sketch.
Wildhoney 12.18.17	It was a fuckin Monty Python sketch. That's one of the many absurdities of the movie that plays out like a star wars parody... Or worse, fan fiction
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	Anakin/Padme is no longer the worst Star Wars romance.
Relinquished 12.18.17	yea if you don’t think incest is a problem
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	most people arent really having sex to procreate anymore so incest isnt really that big of a problem tbh, as long as u use protection and u arent irresponsibly pushing out some fucked up incest babies into the world i couldnt care less who you have consensual sex with
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	fuck your sister, fuck your dad, i dont care as long as you aint harmin' anyone
mifzal 12.18.17	no movie is worth this much of bitching and crying.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	hey bruh sum these boys spent like 20 bucks on this shit thats their entire allowance
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	they could have bought a bionicle
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	"Why would I want them to explore such an uninteresting character as Snoke?" Because for the people who weren't super into the post-rotj eu (aka the majority of fans), the Emperor being killed off and Vader turning meant the end of the sith/darkside. So who's this Emperor wannabe that seemingly stayed hidden from everyone's knowledge throughout the whole saga? Where did he come from? How did he become the supreme leader of the first order? Who fucked up his face? How did he find and proceed to turn Ben? I didn't like him and I'm glad he's gone just like you, but JJ made Snoke too high status of a character and added too much mystique to him for him just to be thrown away like that without any kind of backstory in the very next movie, and I shouldn't have to read a book to get the answers to those questions.
Relinquished 12.18.17	imagine if Leia squeezed out an accidental plot with Luke maybe then kylo ren wouldn’t have had existed
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	"yea if you don’t think incest is a problem" lmaooo I completely forgot
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	@mralexk there are other force wielding religious sects in the eu that arent siths arent there..
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	snoke is literally just a vader fanatic force sensitive person who has kept himself alive with the dark side of the force. his death was fitting because he was nothing but a poseur that tripped onto power with the end of the sith, creating a new order to fetishize the old
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	his menace was revealed to be all fodder. he was just a stan, with a hard-on for the relic that was the sith and jedi order, that even luke and yoda wanted to end. it kinda breaks the cycle enough for a new story to be told instead of the mirror images we got in the first 2 trilogies
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	i had a really nice time watch him getting sliced to bits like the lil bitch he was snoke aint shit
Faraudo 12.18.17	"Because for the people who weren't super into the post-rotj eu (aka the majority of fans), the Emperor being killed off and Vader turning meant the end of the sith/darkside. So who's this Emperor wannabe that seemingly stayed hidden from everyone's knowledge throughout the whole saga? Where did he come from? How did he become the supreme leader of the first order? Who fucked up his face? How did he find and proceed to turn Ben? I didn't like him and I'm glad he's gone just like you, but JJ made Snoke too high status of a character and added too much mystique to him for him just to be thrown away like that without any kind of backstory in the very next movie, and I shouldn't have to read a book to get the answers to those questions." High status of a character? He's a hologram that appears like 4 times.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	everyone in power in the first order turned out to be a fucking clueless chump in a game of war they didnt even understand except Kylo
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	as for giving star wars characters lots of mystique and high status just to be thrown away without any kind of backstory in the films.... darth maul boba fett count dooku jango fett general grievous phasma sidious Plagueis... who did i miss
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	I loved his death and I (think) I agree with what your saying pots but I just wish they would've made that a bit more clear in the movie (if that's even what they were trying to convey with his character) "High status of a character? He's a hologram that appears like 4 times." High status in this new sequel universe
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	oh thats right thats pretty much every single cool villain except vader a trope that used to piss me off that i know anticipate eagerly. seeing phasma not only get killed off after looking really badass and doing a whole lot of nothing badass but then being the obligatory character who needs to plummet down a shaft for each star wars entry was hilarious
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	"I loved his death and I (think) I agree with what your saying pots but I just wish they would've made that a bit more clear in the movie (if that's even what they were trying to convey with his character)" fair enough, they really fucking smashed the obvious exposition down your throat for the first half of the film but then kind of forgot to explain the interesting stuff in the second lol
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	The only one that's even comparable is Sidious, the rest of those guys are Sidious pawns or hired guns, and Plageis was (and still technically is) a myth... Sidious got all the backstory he needed, even when you exclude the prequel trilogy.
Faraudo 12.18.17	Because Sidious was actually interesting.
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	Exactly. But they made Sidious the be all end all evil star wars guy with all the other movies and it just doesn't make sense to have someone seemingly on his level/even more evil/powerful just come out of nowhere is what I'm saying
Ignimbrite 12.18.17	you fucking nerds Snoke dying was probably the best decision this story made
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	It was
Faraudo 12.18.17	Well yeah you fucking nerd, i'm defending that same notion.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	"The only one that's even comparable is Sidious, the rest of those guys are Sidious pawns or hired guns, and Plageis was (and still technically is) a myth" not really yo all of those characters are far more badass than snoke. especially when u get into the eu. snoke literally just sat in a chair and looked big for a movie. and then he got fucking wrecked a movie later. it was like sidious's entire arch condensed into two films. glad it didnt last longer lol. also as far as im aware in the star wars films sidious kills plageis off screen like before episode 1 even starts so i dont know how u can compare snokes menace to sidious's when he was being an old dude for 3 movies and then a creepy old dude for 3 more. snoke was a creepy old dude for 1 film and then a dead af old dude in another.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	that being said i personally have always thought Sidious was a fucking lame ass villain
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	like they kept the single lamest villain alive for 6 films and all the others were lucky to make it through two
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	he was way shittier in the prequels tho of/c
Faraudo 12.18.17	Sidious is a pretty mediocre villain, yes.
Faraudo 12.18.17	Kylo Ren is a way better villain that those 2 creepy old dudes.
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	"especially when u get into the eu." But disney killed the eu :( "so i dont know how u can compare snokes menace to sidious's" Because they imply it heavily and give no reason to believe otherwise... if he was just some phony the whole time Kylo would've just been like lol fuck this guy darth maul'd and went about his darkside business alone from the start
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	i mean kylo is hardly a master over his own mind either, i think he genuinely had fear for snokes power but then realized when he was toying with Rey that the dude was a joke. it was all posturing.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.18.17	in other news my boss lady gave me a Google Home and I have already successfully trained it to be /pol/
wwf 12.18.17	'you fucking nerds Snoke dying was probably the best decision this story made' this times a million
anarchistfish 12.18.17	"he said he'd never seen such darkness before and knew it would mean tons of people would die if he kept Kylo alive...AND HE STILL KEPT HIM ALIVE" there is not more darkness in Kylo than there was in Vader come on this is just yet more bad writing "8. The humour did catch me off guard but AGAIN you're basically wanting this to be Empire Strikes Back when you say "Oh I thought this would be the dark film"...goddamn Star Wars can't win. Be like Empire, get criticised. Be different, get criticised. But I found it pretty damn funny, even Empire has a lot of funny moments in it." the humour in this movie was cheap and contemporary as fuck. and pls don't compare it to OT in OT it tied into the characters' personalities and the world as a whole. han solo is han solo. it was funny seeing two AI droids bickering like normal humans. yoda would fuck about but would also be the fountain of wisdom. TFA did humour fantastically. in TLJ every last fucking character is making a quip every single time there's a tense moment. i just imagine rian johnson blazed in his office sniggering at all the dad jokes and cheesy one-liners. This is Jar Jar levels of bad but at least Jar Jar didn't fuckup the whole tone of the films the way they were used. "JJ's subplots were always gonna be disappointing reveals. Rey is a Skywalker, Snoke is Darth Plageuis...who else were they gonna be?" IDK MAYBE DISNEY SHOULDVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS BEFORE THEY GAVE 3 PARTS OF A TRILOGY TO 3 DIFFERENT WRITERS like I get why he did some stuff but don't throw away EVERY SINGLE MYSTERY SET UP IN THE PREVIOUS FILM. Snoke = nobody. Rey = nobody. lightsaber calling to rey? forget about it. knights of ren? forget about it. come on at least try SOMETHING. "Because for the people who weren't super into the post-rotj eu (aka the majority of fans), the Emperor being killed off and Vader turning meant the end of the sith/darkside. So who's this Emperor wannabe that seemingly stayed hidden from everyone's knowledge throughout the whole saga? Where did he come from? How did he become the supreme leader of the first order? Who fucked up his face? How did he find and proceed to turn Ben? I didn't like him and I'm glad he's gone just like you, but JJ made Snoke too high status of a character and added too much mystique to him for him just to be thrown away like that without any kind of backstory in the very next movie, and I shouldn't have to read a book to get the answers to those questions." this hard don't even start me on the pacing and plot holes
anarchistfish 12.18.17	and what's meant to happen in 9? kylo ren is now the main antagonist? not buying it and don't give a shit. IX should've been the trilogy's resolution but VIII is so ambiguous in so many respects and is so disjointed from TFA that i just don't care anymore. or maybe IX will be just as vague and we can get our New Star Wars movie every two years for the next fucking 56 years which I guess is all Disney wanted in the first place
anarchistfish 12.18.17	if you loved TFA this movie is basically a big fuck you
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	"IDK MAYBE DISNEY SHOULDVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS BEFORE THEY GAVE 3 PARTS OF A TRILOGY TO 3 DIFFERENT WRITERS" The biggest flaw of the trilogy easily And honestly with the way VIII ended up, I really wouldn't be surprised if there's hardly any resolution to anything at the end of IX and they just made new ones every two years just pushing the story on and on and on with Rey and Fin and Poe and Kylo doing thiiiiiiinngggsss
Drummerboy123 12.18.17	"there is not more darkness in Kylo than there was in Vader come on this is just yet more bad writing" In Luke's own words - "It was beyond anything I'd ever imagined". He was a bad egg and needed to be killed, keeping him alive would've been dumb but Luke still did. The fact he thought about killing him made him more human and not this perfect Jedi that never kills. "the humour in this movie was cheap and contemporary as fuck" Opinion. "In TLJ every last fucking character is making a quip every single time there's a tense moment." May I refresh your memory of Empire when Han gets carbonated and C3PO 5 seconds after says "Oh, they've encased him in carbonite? He should be quite well protected!". Come on, Star Wars has never been uber serious. Besides there's plenty of tension in TLJ, the throne room for instance was expertly done IMO. "This is Jar Jar levels of bad" Are you kidding? Jar was annoying af and took me out of the film. There's nothing nearly as bad as him or "I don't like sand, it's coarse and gets everywhere". "IDK MAYBE DISNEY SHOULDVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS BEFORE THEY GAVE 3 PARTS OF A TRILOGY TO 3 DIFFERENT WRITERS" Agreed, but maybe JJ shouldn't setup plot reveals for another director and just give backstory to Snoke and Rey in TFA? You find out Anakin is the chosen one right away in TPM. "and what's meant to happen in 9?" Do you go into movies wanting to know what happens? What kind of criticism is this? You complain about them taking mystery out of the film by killing Snoke yet you don't want mystery in ep 9... "IX should've been the trilogy's resolution" Like ROTJ then? Which already exists. So many people are just indirectly asking for the OT to be remade again. "if you loved TFA this movie is basically a big fuck you" I'm glad, TFA was a copycat film with nothing new.
frozencarl 12.18.17	hmm i kind of liked this one more than TFA rogue one is still the best SW movie ackbar shouldve kamikazeed the ship but idk how that wouldve gone considering the current political climate. pouring one out for you homie those red space samurais were cool asf
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	Yeah glad we finally got to see those guys do something other then stand around
frozencarl 12.18.17	altho the aesthetics of snoke's room with the red and the samurais in badass positions was like really freakin cool
Nocturtle 12.18.17	if you loved TFA this movie is basically a big fuck you [2]
Gameofmetal 12.18.17	"IDK MAYBE DISNEY SHOULDVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS BEFORE THEY GAVE 3 PARTS OF A TRILOGY TO 3 DIFFERENT WRITERS" Isn't JJ writing/directing episode nine as well? So it's just two writers for this trilogy?
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	The original plan was to have three pretty sure And Johnson, for better or worse, kind of ruined a lot of the stuff that jj set up in tfa, so no matter how IX turns out, the trilogy as a whole is gonna be kind of discombobulated.
Devastator 12.18.17	I gotta admit as sad and disappointed I was that Luke died his final scene being a call back to the twin suns scene from ANH was beautiful.
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	This movie ruined force ghosts tbqh
Storm In A Teacup 12.18.17	nah force ghost was spot on. this movie paid great tribute to the star wars universe and captured a fitting story. as a Legends fan I am happy.
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	While I like them trying to incorporate parts of the eu into the new trilogy... what they did here opens up soooooooo many plot holes in past movies where a character could've done what Yoda or Luke did here instead of doing what they actually did. In Phantom Menace, why didn't Qui Gon summon a fucking lightning strike on Darth Maul on sight when he saw him on that bike thingy? Why didn't Obi Wan just use a force ghost when he was sneaking around that droid factory in II or when he went to fight Grevious in III or when he was sneaking around the Death Star in IV? Hell why didn't Vader just force ghost insert himself onto the Falcon when they were chasing it in V???? Why didn't ghost obi wan or yoda come to Luke's assistance when he was confronting Vader in V or VI and do some lightning shit? It's just too major of a thing to add to the cannon force lore w/e when there's already this many movies
BlackMalachite 12.18.17	Yeah JJ is writing and directing episode 9
Devastator 12.18.17	@Alex The only answer I can think of is that the ghosts cannot directly interact with their surroundings since Luke’s mirage didn’t leave footprints in the sand on the planet and based off of what happened to Luke it must be a incredibly stressful ability that requires all their focus so using other abilities must be near impossible. As for Yoda, I’m pretty sure he’s transcended to godhood by this point.
sempiturtle 12.18.17	TLJ would probably have been better if JJ had written and directed it as well.
JS19 12.18.17	It was a great movie and it's even funnier seeing all the losers get butthurt to all hell about it
sempiturtle 12.18.17	I think it's on the cusp of being a great movie and changing two or three major writing decisions throughout the film would've made it much better.
Ignimbrite 12.18.17	i'm not one to ship but tbh rey and kylo should hook up in IX
JS19 12.18.17	Thought Adam Driver was a skinny bitch until I saw his titties in that mind link scene damn dude stacked
polyrhythm 12.18.17	JJ can still do the stuff he set up in 7 tbh, if he really wants to he can dismiss Rey's parentage reveal as Kylo lying to her, and if Snoke was Plagueis he's kinda like, immortal and stuff we'll see what he does until then, making grandiose preemptive judgements about the trilogy as a whole is a bit silly
Gameofmetal 12.18.17	"Thought Adam Driver was a skinny bitch until I saw his titties in that mind link scene damn dude stacked" dude was a marine apparently (or is still? not sure exactly)
polyrhythm 12.18.17	The problems with VIII that I agree with are the Finn-Rose subplot being inconsequential and uneventful, a few jokes falling flat, and less narrative momentum going into the third part than ESB had. There is no definitive canon of what the capabilities of the Force are, or how Luke would REALLY think and act 30 years later, unless you take the glorified fanfiction of the EU as some sort of gospel. If you think people shouldn't be able to astral project, fine. If you think Luke wouldn't ever consider, even for a moment, killing a kid who had an unprecedented amount of darkness in him, and showed a glimpse of the Sith returning to a peaceful galaxy, that's also fine. But that's just one take on the SW canon What we saw onscreen was Johnson's take, and for the most part I thought it was excellent. This was a more nuanced and thoughtful look at the Force, an the central characters, than we'd seen before. Combine that with some stunning set pieces and cinematography, and the good far outweighs the bad here
Kalopsia 12.18.17	"Thought Adam Driver was a skinny bitch" nope, he's shirtless in a majority of his scenes on the show Girls. dude has been ripped forever and then some.
anarchistfish 12.18.17	"In Luke's own words - "It was beyond anything I'd ever imagined"." BAD FUCKING WRITING. THIS EMO KID IS NOT THE MOST EVIL DUDE IN THE GALAXY "Opinion" ur mum (HAHAHAHAHJAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) ". Besides there's plenty of tension in TLJ, the throne room for instance was expertly done IMO." the only outstanding scene in the whole film "Do you go into movies wanting to know what happens? What kind of criticism is this? You complain about them taking mystery out of the film by killing Snoke yet you don't want mystery in ep 9..." replace "mystery" with "anticipation" cos the true mystery of IX is how the fuck they're gonna salvage this wreck of a trilogy "Like ROTJ then? Which already exists. So many people are just indirectly asking for the OT to be remade again." no i just want a competent and coherent trilogy to be made. "I'm glad, TFA was a copycat film with nothing new." at least it was well written
Devastator 12.18.17	I hope there isn't a redemption for Kylo. He's to for gone at this point.
anarchistfish 12.18.17	like come on it can't be that hard to think up some cool subversive answers to the questions of who is this vague evil dude and where did this powerful chick come from instead of WHO GIVES A FUCKING SHIT.
TheSpirit 12.18.17	there is no way that kylo wasn't lying in regards to rey's parents i was also disappointed by what happened w/snoke but it was also sick that kylo betrayed him like that. my only gripe with that scene was that i wish they kept kylo's/the lightsabers motions hidden while snoke was talking so it would truly be a surprise
Devastator 12.18.17	The Snoke thing is just a big fuck up. They'll probably do a comic series on his back story in the near future tbh. Rey's parents are another issue too. "Oh her parents are nobodies who sold her off and are probably dead." Like they could have kept the non force wielding aspect of it but give them names and a reason for leaving her on Jakku. Like they were on the run from the remnants of the Empire or The beginning of the First Order and they left her there till they were safe but they got captured and killed before hand. Like anything other than what we got.
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	"There is no definitive canon of what the capabilities of the Force are" There was seven movies worth
TheSpirit 12.18.17	Not really though. The movies have always been vague on force capabilities. People blindly accepted anything in the EU like the fucking thought bomb, or kit fisto using the force compress a ball of air into a weapon, and now everyone wants to bitch about what they saw in the movie.
AlexKzillion 12.18.17	"People blindly accepted anything in the EU like the fucking thought bomb, or kit fisto using the force compress a ball of air into a weapon" Not me... if it's not in the movies I don't really care too much because the eu just kinda does it's own thing and isn't cannon anymore
Devastator 12.18.17	After finding out that Plagius could keep people from dying and he and Palpetine had a hand in Anakins birth I don't really see anything out of the realm of possibility with the force.
Drummerboy123 12.18.17	"answers to the questions of who is this vague evil dude and where did this powerful chick come from" The whole point is those answers would've been disappointing as fuck cuz the fanbase already predicted it.
Kalopsia 12.18.17	"The whole point is those answers would've been disappointing as fuck cuz the fanbase already predicted it." except every possibility ever has been discussed to death, so who fucking cares if someone already guessed it?
Toondude10 12.18.17	"Isn't JJ writing/directing episode nine as well? So it's just two writers for this trilogy?" Chris Terrio is also co-writing episode 9. Kinda has me worried considering he wrote both Batman v. Superman and Justice League
Faraudo 12.18.17	Lol, I'd rather have a perpetually drunk Rian Johnson than a sane and capable Chris Terrio.
Toondude10 12.18.17	well he also wrote Argo so he does have capable writing qualities, but then again that was just one movie.
zaruyache 12.18.17	who tf would hire him to write for disney after helping ruin dawn of justice and justice league wtf. If there was justice in the universe disney would chuck him out the door and get literally anyone else.
Toondude10 12.19.17	well he's only co-writing so if he fucks up I'm sure J.J. will slap him in the face
zaruyache 12.19.17	jj was the one who lifted the whole plot of ep 7 from another movie so idk if i trust that logic
AlexKzillion 12.19.17	"After finding out that Plagius could keep people from dying and he and Palpetine had a hand in Anakins birth I don't really see anything out of the realm of possibility with the force." But that actually kinda makes sense and doesn't inadvertently create plot holes in all the other movies, unlike force ghost yoda being able to obliterate small buildings with giant lightning bolts with the flick of a finger
Toondude10 12.19.17	^ ya know, that's a good point. If ghost force jedi people can do that, why not just gather them all up and go all Battle of Minas Tirith and blow the fuck up on the First Order?
Faraudo 12.19.17	They did some pretty interesting stuff regarding the force.
Papa Universe 12.19.17	Looking through the comment section, can't figure out why are people talking about European Union...
Faraudo 12.19.17	That's what happens when you enter a Star Wars thread.
Papa Universe 12.19.17	What happens? People start talking about international politics?
JS19 12.19.17	I imagine Kylo Ren as an Alt-Right commenter and the movie makes way more sense
Papa Universe 12.19.17	Yeah, but you can just see that Luke is a fucking Libertarian. "Ooh, I'mma slack off on this little island of mine, nobody messing with me and I'm messing with nobody too. Ooh, I don't think that the balance in the galaxy is any of my business. In fact I believe it will negatively target my financial individuality."
Faraudo 12.19.17	Luke's island is a metaphor for the UK.
JWT155 12.19.17	I thoroughly enjoyed the movie as a fan, but as a critic it was a very cluttered mess at times. Compared to other Star Wars movies it was way too busy at times, shuffling between who knows how many characters and settings with very little exposition at times, and when Princess Leia used the force in space to "float" back into the command deck that's where the movie jumped the shark for me. I felt the whole casino planet was unnecessary and was just a very poor job pigeonholing some political rhetoric and giving Rosie and Finn the backstory they needed for later. There's much more I felt wrong with the movie but I also feel the movie did a lot of things right. I still don't understand how through 2 movies now they've expedited Rey's abilities with very little to any setbacks to the point to wear she's lifting hordes of rocks with ease. Oh well, a lot here doesn't make sense or could have been done better but overall I can't complain, especially after surviving episodes I through III.
anarchistfish 12.19.17	"there is no way that kylo wasn't lying in regards to rey's parents" nah dude like they said in the angryjoe review he was all like "SEARCH IT IN UR FEELINGS U KNOW IT TO BE TRUE". plus it matches up with the fact disney can now go on and make as many star wars episodes as they want $$$
anarchistfish 12.19.17	then again JJ might say fuck you Rian Johnson and do it anyway since the reverse happened like 5 times this movie
anarchistfish 12.19.17	"except every possibility ever has been discussed to death, so who fucking cares if someone already guessed it?" yh exactly lol there was even this post on reddit of some highly upvoted comment predicting that kylo would turn on snoke. i remember that in the Rey theories her being a nobody was probably the 2nd most popular after being Luke's daughter. the point isn't necessarily what direction the writers take but how they justify it and link it into the story's world. in this sense TLJ didn't try to build on TFA in any regard.
JWT155 12.19.17	Snokes plotline was weak, he was propped up from the beginning for us to believe is some high and mighty leader of the first order without any context, and then he's essentially just used as a plot device to have kylo turn on someone to steal power for himself. Terribly disappointing characterization and writing.
anarchistfish 12.19.17	i tell you what though, this is the absolute ideal star wars film (aside from IV) for someone who's never seen a star wars film before $$$
JWT155 12.19.17	Oh for sure, that's why I think people having crazy theories about metaphors, and what things mean are just dumb; this movie wasn't made to have that kind of depth, they literally just filmed ideas they thought were cool and included characters and creatures they could use to sell toys. Hell, even Mark Hamill said the new films are purely made for the money they generate.
Kalopsia 12.19.17	" they literally just filmed ideas they thought were cool and included characters and creatures they could use to sell toys. " ^this. remember when C3PO had a red arm in TFA? gotta buy that new toy for the red arm. Now he doesn't have a red arm in TLJ. gotta buy that new toy.
anarchistfish 12.19.17	i thought the red arm was a cool little play on the "someone gets their arm cut off every movie" trope
JWT155 12.19.17	The more I think about this film the more I get frustrated... Like how is it that Rosie "saves" Finn mere feet away from the New Order army with blasters everywhere on their At-At's and yet he survives to drag her what seemed to be miles back to the now shot through rebel base? The whole casino planet was non-sense. Princess Leia using the force in space jumped the shark. Having Snoke killed in such a simplistic way crumbles the whole lacking story they even tried to piece together for him . The writing for these movies have been so poorly executed. Hell Luke's character in this is despicable compared to what he should be and what his characterizations in the original trilogy were, even Mark Hamill thought what they made Luke into was uncharacteristic and terrible. And even in the beginning of the movie, how can bombs be "dropped" in space?
anarchistfish 12.19.17	"Like how is it that Rosie "saves" Finn mere feet away from the New Order army with blasters everywhere on their At-At's and yet he survives to drag her what seemed to be miles back to the now shot through rebel base? " the conductors were just as shocked as us at how shit this plot line was "And even in the beginning of the movie, how can bombs be "dropped" in space?" magnets or something, it's not unbelievable
MO 12.19.17	damn opinion seems pretty divided on these eh
JS19 12.19.17	I genuinely enjoy how butthurt star wars fans get when they don't like something it's like another level compared to stuff like racial activism or entire countries rising up against fascist dictators
JWT155 12.19.17	I mean those two can be mutually exclusive, and it's seems pretty petty and disingenuous to conflate the two, as if you can't be politically up to speed and a participant and also think the movie can be poorly done.
sempiturtle 12.19.17	This movie has a lower audience score on RT than The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones. lol
TheSpirit 12.19.17	"And even in the beginning of the movie, how can bombs be "dropped" in space?" This is the kind of nitpicky bullshit that I can't stand. The rest of your points have merit, but if you want this scientifically correct BS watch Star Trek. This is universe with magical powers, space travel, and infinite other things, that "logically" make no sense, but we accept them. A point like this is like purposely looking for something to not like the movie over. Did you have a problem w/ the Tie Bombers in Empire Strikes Back?
JWT155 12.19.17	I conceded the point earlier, it is very nit picky but I think it's added to the generalities that a lot of the plot wasn't really thought through. Rosie and Finn escape Montico Casino place, are hunted down and then they say it was "worth it" because they saved a few animals? Hello, if you die without getting the code breaker then the rebellion is dead, your friends are dead, all was for nothing. Shoehorning a such a corny line and similar stuff throughout the movie to me just makes it frustrating. The whole Leia floating in space is another HUGE issue. We've never seen her use the force ever, yet she can be blown out of the control room of a space ship, be out in freezing space and then float to the door of a spaceship that's still conveniently close by? If jedi have the ability to "float/fly" then why didn't Darth Maul save himself in The Phantom Menace, or Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi? Introducing such a silly ability really undercuts the past events in the universe. These are the inconsistencies that just don't make sense to me and in the end is just poor writing.
sempiturtle 12.19.17	Yeah like... wasn't the spaceship moving? How did Leia float back to it?? What the fuckkkkk
JWT155 12.19.17	Like I mentioned earlier, that's where the movie jumped the shark for me. I almost busted out laughing in the theater at how it came so far out of left field and was just completely irrational.
wwf 12.19.17	I don't know if I would go as far as to say that it completely jumped the shark but it was definitely silly and killed the moment It was so well set up that they had all the shields on the back end and they were completely unprotected but then she just floats back in and sits the rest of the movie out Plus that moment of Kylo deciding whether or not to fire was gold too
JWT155 12.19.17	Hell even the idea that Kylo could fool Snokes is hilarious. All of last film and into this one the audience has seen that Kylo has been easily manipulated and can hardly keep a poker face, and that Snokes is a mastermind who has taken over the galaxy and manipulated Kylo to do his bidding. the idea that Kylo could hoodwink Snokes just seems disingenuous and unrealistic to the viewer knowing the background given to us.
AlexKzillion 12.19.17	"Introducing such a silly ability really undercuts the past events in the universe." 1234567890
Kalopsia 12.19.17	possibly nitpicky, but wouldn't it have been better if instead of them eventually "running out of fuel" being the crux of the tension.. that after the first jump they take the shields down thinking they're safe. then First Order jumps in and fires, damaging their thrusters and then they're continually loosing power on the ensuing escape?? as opposed to "oh shoot, Poe didn't gas up Home2 before we left"
anarchistfish 12.19.17	I liked the idea of showcasing Leia's relationship with the force since we've basically never seen it but the execution is a bit cheesy. I think it's nitpicking though, as are the bombs in space thing and the hyperdrive kamikaze. Complain about the stupid writing and trainwreck tone of the movie not that shit. This is a pretty decent levelheaded analysis of the movie. I only really disagree with him on the Rey/Snoke stuff (he also has a great video on criticism of TFA) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_3_W4GRb44
polyrhythm 12.19.17	"This movie has a lower audience score on RT than The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones" god help us all
polyrhythm 12.19.17	For an actual nuanced discussion of the film and not just "REEEEEE not muh force powers" bedshitting, check this article out: http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/
Ignimbrite 12.19.17	"This movie has a lower audience score on RT than The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones" yeah what the fuck is that i mean you can be disappointed with it but it's an objectively better movie in pretty much every way than either of those shitshows fucking fan culture man, i swear
RogueNine 12.20.17	Dunno if I like TFA or this one better yet; both have great qualities but also some things that really needed to be fixed. Leia saving herself indeed jumped the shark but by the end I think the film established a Star Wars-like feel. And my goodness if the lightspeed suicide wasn't one of the most gorgeous things ever.
AlexKzillion 12.20.17	Was just in Barnes n Noble and there was a 300+ page novel all about the Casino planet with a label saying "Road to The Last Jedi" lmao
zaruyache 12.20.17	"why not just gather them all up and go all Battle of Minas Tirith and blow the fuck up on the First Order?" Because as far as I know canonically Qui-Gon Jinn was the first to achieve oneness with the force, ie force ghost-status. Then Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vader/Anakin, and then presumably Luke. Not a big enough army, and if they can interact with the physical world at all, they can probably get blown away by force abilities of other people, too. They're more like poltergeists than wraiths. "I liked the idea of showcasing Leia's relationship with the force since we've basically never seen it" except she showed it like a bazillion times in TFA whenever something bad happened and it panned to her looking sad like she "knew" what was going on, bc she did, bc it firmly established she had power in the force.
Faraudo 12.20.17	"This movie has a lower audience score on RT than The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones" This is just too much butthurt. Even the most simpleton of simpletons knows that this movie is better than both of those CGI turds.
Faraudo 12.20.17	It's like they suddenly forgot about that Naboo sequence with Anakin and Padme, dear lord.
Faraudo 12.20.17	And that assembly line scene, and UGHH.
Devastator 12.20.17	TLJ is infinitely better than all 3 of the prequels.
Valkoor952 12.20.17	Duel of the fates is better than anything in the post-disney star wars movies.
AlexKzillion 12.20.17	I enjoy the prequels more just because in spite of some objectively poop movies it will never not be my personal favorite part of/time in the universe (specifically the clone wars) It's probably always gonna be "Star Wars movies that I grew up with and don't remember a time where they didn't exist > new Star Wars movies" for me
Koris 12.20.17	"TLJ is infinitely better than all 3 of the prequels." agreed, even though I do enjoy Revenge of the Sith a decent amount
foxblood 12.20.17	i loved the green milk shooting creatures and the little frog nun caretakers on lukes island. i liked the movie more than i expected. Rose was complete ASS and managed to derail the movie whenever she was included.
Devastator 12.20.17	The scene when Luke tells Rey to reach with the force but she literally reaches her hand out and his reaction to that was the funniest scene to me.
AlexKzillion 12.20.17	Yeah definitely the most well executed joke of the trilogy so far, very OT Obi Wan/Yoda-esque in the best way possible
Valkoor952 12.20.17	I enjoy the prequels more (2)
mifzal 12.20.17	end credits were the best part. apparently this movie raped all ya mama's
Kalopsia 12.20.17	"The scene when Luke tells Rey to reach with the force but she literally reaches her hand out and his reaction to that was the funniest scene to me." totally agree. I've seen some people online (of course) say it doesn't make sense for Luke to joke like that and the joke didn't work, but i 100% disagree. wonderful joke.
Tundra 12.20.17	its good lol
Drummerboy123 12.21.17	"We've never seen her use the force ever, yet she can be blown out of the control room of a space ship, be out in freezing space and then float to the door of a spaceship that's still conveniently close by? If jedi have the ability to "float/fly" then why didn't Darth Maul save himself in The Phantom Menace, or Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi?" You have to think that there is a first time for everything. Just cuz A used it doesn't mean B can use it. There was a point where someone used force lightning for the first time right? It hasn't existed for eternity. New powers are discovered and they get passed on. "has seen that Kylo has been easily manipulated and can hardly keep a poker face, and that Snokes is a mastermind who has taken over the galaxy and manipulated Kylo to do his bidding." Jeez you've got a Snoke hardon or what? You do remember Vader's whole plan was to overthrow the emperor right? It was Kylo's aswell. Playing dumb is a pretty smart move, fuck, it even fooled half the goddamn audience. ""This movie has a lower audience score on RT than The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones"" HURP DERP IT'S NOT MY STAR WARS ANYMORE AND DIDN'T DO WHAT I WANTED WHICH WAS PREDICTABLE AND GENERIC! ""The scene when Luke tells Rey to reach with the force but she literally reaches her hand out and his reaction to that was the funniest scene to me."" And that's classic Luke, the fact he played with her by brushing the leaf on her hand and being like "Do you feel it?", his reaction to Chewie and R2 makes me so annoyed when people say #notmyluke, fuck me people change after 30 years. Maybe Luke made the map to his location and then got cold feet and didn't want people to find him.
Space Jester 12.21.17	I think it’s pretty obvious that Leia was using the ship as an anchor and pulling herself towards it since she’s in the vacuum of space. She’s not just floating wherever she wants. And it’s perfectly reasonable to assume she’s gained some knowledge and control of the force in the last 30 years, like Luke said she would l in ROTJ. The film has some problems for sure but nit picky stuff like this is dumb to me.
Faraudo 12.21.17	""This movie has a lower audience score on RT than The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones"" Look that up on other sites like IMDB, and it has a higher score. Still, I know that there are opinions and whatnot, but most people with a functioning brain should be able to realize that Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace are both a disgrace and overall terrible movies.
Egarran 12.21.17	Their main achievement is making this movie look relatively good.
AlexKzillion 12.21.17	Lol @ people trying to defend Leia using the force
JWT155 12.21.17	Lol @ people defending Leia and Snoke You can admit it kids when the writing for something just isn't good. I hardly thought Snoke was a worthwhile character, but committing so much time to building him up only to have him so quickly snuffed out just makes all his screen time a complete waste.
AlexKzillion 12.21.17	"But he hardly had any screen time!!!1111 How can that be true when he's just a hologram most of the time!!!!!"
TheSpirit 12.21.17	Did they really commit so much time to building up Snoke, or was that the fans doing that over the passed two years?
Devastator 12.21.17	Now that I think about it, Snoke parallels the Emperor alot. In the OT we know nothing about the emperor. Hes just there looming as a greater power than Vader. Like Snoke he shows up as a hologram at first and even when he shows up in person what does he do? Sits in a chair taunting the protagonist. Using force abilities to prove his power briefly and ultimately is betrayed by his apprentice he thought was loyal. We didn't know anything about him until the prequels.
AlexKzillion 12.21.17	And that worked. The mere existence of the Emperor makes a Snoke backstory required.
JWT155 12.21.17	"Did they really commit so much time to building up Snoke, or was that the fans doing that over the passed two years?" He's the leader of the New Order, the Supreme Leader, doesn't such a character have legitimacy as a main character by default, especially in since the main forces clashing are the rebels against the New Order? His whole character was horribly butchered. We are given no back story, we are simply led to believe he's a supreme leader without context, both movies build him up to be character of great imprtanc ein terms of power and influence, and then he's casually done away with by a character who's main trait is that he wears his emotions on his sleeve and incapable of hiding away from it (his mask in point was to shield others from seeing who he truly is and he decides to destroy it whenever Snoke tells him it doesn't work).
SgtShock 12.21.17	This film had some of my favorite and least favorite SW moments. I really don't know what to say about it other than that it was NOT what I was expecting and I think that made it way more interesting than it would have been otherwise.
Devastator 12.21.17	@Alex I'm sure we'll get one. Probably in a comic series or they might do the same thing they did with the emperor and explain his backstory in the new trilogy that Rian is doing.
TheSpirit 12.21.17	"He's the leader of the New Order, the Supreme Leader, doesn't such a character have legitimacy as a main character by default, especially in since the main forces clashing are the rebels against the New Order? His whole character was horribly butchered. We are given no back story, we are simply led to believe he's a supreme leader without context, both movies build him up to be character of great imprtanc ein terms of power and influence, and then he's casually done away with by a character who's main trait is that he wears his emotions on his sleeve and incapable of hiding away from it (his mask in point was to shield others from seeing who he truly is and he decides to destroy it whenever Snoke tells him it doesn't work)." So do you have a problem with how Palpatine's character was handled in the original trilogy as well? Because they were literally treated the same.
JWT155 12.21.17	Not at all, because Vader's turn to the light side and the lead up were much better executed then Kylo. Vader had been loyal to the emperor for decades, his betrayal was much more subtle and unexpected then Kylo who Snoke himself knew was continuing to struggle with completely embracing the dark side. The whole point Snoke wanted Kylo to kill Rey was so he could finally prove once and for all he had completely accepted the dark side, Vader at no point had such an ultimatum. Snoke should have expected Kylo's betrayal, emperor palpatine rightfully shouldn't have.
AlexKzillion 12.21.17	The Emperor not having a lot of backstory in the OT worked because the universe was a fraction of what it is today. At this point (especially post-Emperor) you can't just introduce Emperor 2.0 with no backstory and expect everyone to blindly accept it
JWT155 12.21.17	And I do find it disengenious to say that both are exactly the same. In the original Star Wars we are immediatelly dropped into a world where there's an evil empire and a rebel force that have been fighting for years, Vader works for the Emperor who is all powerful and mighty foes for the rebels. That's a very believable pretense that the viewer doesn't need any more context to understand. The NEW trillogy are all built on the cornerstone the original trilogy built and the context it created. The viewer knows the rebellion overthrew the tyrannical emperor! Yet now there's a new empire that simply replaced the old one?And there's a new emperor? How did that happen so quickly? Why is it that Snoke is in control? Why does the New Order follow him? Why did the past rebellion fall back to an evil empire? That's the issue with the comparison, I'd make the analogy that it's like a court of law, the pressure to show evidence and prove will and intent is on the prosecutor, not the defendant. If you're building a sequel to a veyr popular franchise it's your job, especially when using many of the same characters, to explain the exposition of how things have changed since the original trilogy or at least have some logic with it, and I'd say the past two movies, while entertaining, have done a terrible job of creating exposition on how things have managed to come to be.
JWT155 12.21.17	"The Emperor not having a lot of backstory in the OT worked because the universe was a fraction of what it is today. At this point (especially post-Emperor) you can't just introduce Emperor 2.0 with no backstory and expect everyone to blindly accept it" My point exactly, especially when the OST was all about over throwing an empire, how did another one appear so quickly?
RogueNine 12.21.17	Leia having that ability should hardly be surprising. The issue is that it was handled rather poorly.
Egarran 12.21.17	Yeah it seems strange to draw a line of disbelief at her space travel. "Yoda's ghostlightning and Luke's force illusion is fine, but they crossed the line when Leia did a Poppins!" But it will be interesting how they handle her character in the next. I think they should just get another actor for Leia.
Kalopsia 12.21.17	they might as well go off the rails with the next one... how boring would it be just to see Kylo redeemed and go back to the light side? like who cares? and considering there's no weight or importance put him on killing Han Solo, that was a big fucking waste. like he did that to fully embrace the dark side, but wait now he's the exact same wishy-washy light vs dark he was before that.
JWT155 12.21.17	"But it will be interesting how they handle her character in the next. I think they should just get another actor for Leia." I think they had a perfect opportunity just to have her kjilled off. They could have easilly reworked the script to have her be gone. "they might as well go off the rails with the next one... how boring would it be just to see Kylo redeemed and go back to the light side? like who cares? " They had a chance to really shake things up. What if Kylo decided to go good and have them all fight against the empire led by General Hux? What if Rey decided to be naive and join Jylo to forge their own path? They could have really shakne things up if they wanted and created a dynamic we've never seen but they chose to do the boring route and most likely see Kylo and Rey dual and the good guys prevail. At the end of the Empire Strikes Back Luke lost a hand, Solo was taken and the Empire was in full control. With the way The Last Jedi ended there's really no appeal to want to see what happens next.
Kalopsia 12.21.17	"but they chose to do the boring route and most likely see Kylo and Rey dual and the good guys prevail" yep, here's your outline for the next one: Hux and Kylo fight for control of the First Order. Finn and Rose continue their dumb, forced relationship. Poe struggles to become a leader after they write out Leia. Luke force ghost says some bullshit to Rey. Chewbacca gets a few token scenes but is largely forgotten. Rey (light side) fights Kylo (dark side) and Rey wins. "Rebels" destroy a 4th death star and meaningless space battles, and the New New Republic restores order to the galaxy. Rey has a revelation about who she is/her place with the force/universe, then has the old Jedi books and starts teaching Younglings for the next generation.
JWT155 12.21.17	"Chewbacca gets a few token scenes but is largely forgotten." Seriously, talk about a lost opportunity, Chewie just lost his best friend in the last film and they spend no time grieving or showing any changes to chewie as a character.
Devastator 12.21.17	And then meets up with one of his other best friends and the only interaction they have is Chewie breaks down his door. I would have liked to had a scene with Chewie trying to convince Luke to come back or them mourning Han or them just reminiscing and enjoying each others company since it's been decades since they last saw each other probably.
Kalopsia 12.21.17	^ yep, I think Han's name is spoken twice but in such throwaway lines it doesn't mean anything.
AlexKzillion 12.21.17	"Yeah it seems strange to draw a line of disbelief at her space travel. "Yoda's ghostlightning and Luke's force illusion is fine, but they crossed the line when Leia did a Poppins!"" See my last like 30 comments itt "What if Kylo decided to go good and have them all fight against the empire led by General Hux? What if Rey decided to be naive and join Jylo to forge their own path?" Seriously what they should've done. They even built up to it with Rey being pulled to the dark and the force connection with Kylo... But no, it was Snoke the whole time!!!11
Kalopsia 12.21.17	serious question here - but are they going for Rey being tempted by the dark side at all? i feel like all the marketing toys with that, but i didn't get anything from watching the movie. she wants "to know her place in all this" but it doesn't seem to be in context to choosing between the light and the dark. she just has the force in such a nothing way. she has the force, but has no motivation to do anything... to find her parents? oh, they're nobody i guess. that's done. to turn Kylo good again? why? why does she care at all about him beyond "cuz movie says so" and "someone has to redeem him" storyline? Luke made a big deal about her going to the dark force planet-butthole cave, like that was her actively pursuing some sort of dark/sith power. but she (i guess) just asked who her parents were? like you don't turn evil by asking Hitler for directions to the grocery store.
Faraudo 12.21.17	Snoke is an irrelevant, underwhelming, uninteresting, underdeveloped villain only hyped by the fans that had to theorize on who he was because he was introduced super poorly in TFA. The movie writers/director spent like 3 seconds building him up on the last movie. The fans are the ones that built an entire universe around him, theorizing he's Darth Plagueis, or the first Jedi, or any other mythological creature in the SW universe. Fuck Snoke, glad they chopped the fuck out of him.
AlexKzillion 12.21.17	He should have never existed in the first place.
anarchistfish 12.21.17	"serious question here - but are they going for Rey being tempted by the dark side at all? i feel like all the marketing toys with that, but i didn't get anything from watching the movie. she wants "to know her place in all this" but it doesn't seem to be in context to choosing between the light and the dark. she just has the force in such a nothing way. " yea yet another instance where this film goes nowhere
anarchistfish 12.21.17	like seriously. the whole first film was about finding the map to Luke. in the 2nd film they find Luke and he doesn't really do anything. so plot-wise have we actually significantly progressed in any particular way since the beginning of TFA?
AlexKzillion 12.21.17	Han and Luke died !
anarchistfish 12.21.17	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw
SgtShock 12.22.17	Anyone else realize that this entire film is about failure? Nearly everyone fails at whatever they were trying to accomplish. I don't know why I find that so awesome but when I realized that I loved the film even more.
Egarran 12.22.17	"See my last like 30 comments itt" True, I said in one post what you needed 30 attempts to do. Besides that, we are doing the cosmos a disservice by continuing this debate and using our limited lifespans to dissect a nerdy b-movie that is at least 25% advertisements for merchandise.
anarchistfish 12.22.17	dw everyone is gonna be sick of this franchise by 2019
americanohno 12.22.17	haven't seen this but is it true they didn't kill off leia in this?? oops if not
AlexKzillion 12.22.17	"dw everyone is gonna be sick of this franchise by 2019" Yeah can't help but think that at the rate these movies are coming out people are gradually just gonna stop caring (kinda like Transformers movies), especially when they inevitably cut off all the remnants of the OT and it's just Rey Fin Poe Rose(lol) etc that has to carry the movies "True, I said in one post what you needed 30 attempts to do" Glad were on the same page
Storm In A Teacup 12.22.17	They should have banked on Mark outliving Carrie
Toondude10 12.22.17	"Yeah can't help but think that at the rate these movies are coming out people are gradually just gonna stop caring" Tell that to Marvel
JWT155 12.22.17	Marvel is going to hit it's breaking point at some point.
Toondude10 12.23.17	probably after Captain America dies
zaruyache 12.23.17	"serious question here - but are they going for Rey being tempted by the dark side at all? i feel like all the marketing toys with that, but i didn't get anything from watching the movie." there's that part in TFA when she gets angry while fighting Kylo, but then (i think?) refocuses, and in the book it's noted that she heard voices telling her to give in to her aggression, and it's noted somewhere else that it was Snoke tempting her. So canonically they've been hinting that Rey could go dark (especially in TLJ) but unsurprisingly they didn't at all capitalize on it beyond just teasing us with it.
wwf 12.23.17	Marvel also actually has a lot more variety in styles of films than SW has up to this point
foxblood 12.23.17	the scenes with finn and rose on the casino planet were worse than anything in the prequels. yes, worse than jar jar fart jokes.
MO 12.23.17	finally saw it. It was ok, disjointed as fuck
Relinquished 12.23.17	pretty much, I'd watch it again on mute if anything. visually appealing but felt 'dumbed down'.
foxblood 12.23.17	it was visually appealing. definitely messy, disjointed, and unsure of itself. and it has a very poor sendoff for the most powerful being in the galaxy.
Ocean of Noise 12.23.17	My initial reaction to this movie was extremely positive but the more I think about it the more confused I get. There are definitely a lot of ideas that I liked but there was a lot of excess too. Much more interesting than TFA though, you have to give it that.
AlexKzillion 12.23.17	"and it has a very poor sendoff for the most powerful being in the galaxy." Hate to be that guy but man it gets me going when people act like Luke is the most powerful force user we've seen on screen... ROTS Anakin/Pre-suit Vader, Yoda, Palpatine, Obi-Wan, Dooku, Qui-Gon are all more powerful than ST Luke fr
zaruyache 12.23.17	they were better at fighting, but by pure force power nah not by a mile. Luke made a projection of himself appear across the galaxy. That's more than we saw any of those other characters do ever.
AlexKzillion 12.23.17	Oh god don't get me started with the astral projection thing again
zaruyache 12.23.17	wooOoOoOoOops
foxblood 12.23.17	alexk have you read any of the extended universe books? they were all thrown out by disney as cannon anyways. luke is literally the most powerful being in the galaxy, he grows so much in the books. he defeats abeloth, who is much more powerful than any of them.
AlexKzillion 12.23.17	But that's the eu... in ROTJ we see him be able to somewhat hold his own against Vader (who wasn't gonna aaccttuuaallyy do anything to him anyways)... and I just don't see how he could have made that huge jump from what he was then to "the most powerful being in the galaxy" with presumably nobody to mentor/train him, and if the answer is "oh ghost Obi-Wan/Yoda trained him" then their deaths kind of lose all their weight. The astral projection argument doesn't hold up because if Luke can do it, Yoda Palpatine Obi-Wan etc. can surely do it too, and that's my biggest problem with it... Luke doing it undercuts past events/decisions made by other characters
foxblood 12.23.17	i know but that's how i see luke and i can't help but be disappointed by the way they handled his character and story. luke wasn't a coward that hid on an island and then killed himself by holograming himself tupac style.
AlexKzillion 12.23.17	Even Mark Hamill himself hates what they did to Luke... can't help but feel bad for him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0biqMZrxJ0
foxblood 12.23.17	'undercuts past events/decisions' that happens a lot in the movie. for example, leia freezing in space, force pulling herself back into a blown up ship and she's fine.
foxblood 12.23.17	yeah i feel bad that he had no decision in ruining his own vision of his character.
wwf 12.23.17	I get the idea behind the projection thing, with Luke not wanting to send Kylo further down the dark side and all, and with Luke choosing a more peaceful resolution over a violent one, but goddamn was that death scene really poorly executed and overall just a really terrible send-off to an iconic character I don't know how they could've written it to make it more satisfying but it certainly just didn't feel right, it didn't feel like Luke died for any particular cause or even any particular reason I really, reallllllllyyy hope that they get their shit together writing-wise by the third movie; and with Luke almost inevitably showing up as a force ghost in the third one, there's still plenty of things they can really set right in the third movie if they give the writing team more than two days to write the script
unclereich 12.23.17	7.7 already lmao
Egarran 12.23.17	But that embarrassing 86 Metascore can never change.
anarchistfish 12.23.17	I don't mind what they did to Luke. I just hate how people including Rian himself act like the backlash is only about certain "directions" taken in this movie rather their poor execution and the messy inconsistent writing in general.
Toondude10 12.23.17	https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25446454_304326843410371_150387652294221200_n.jpg?oh=c27d526bda1e52b549830ff464a019c7&oe=5ACED145 lol
Desdinova 12.23.17	Star wards is fun
anarchistfish 12.23.17	"https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25446454_304326843410371_150387652294221200_n.jpg?oh=c27d526bda1e52b549830ff464a019c7&oe=5ACED145" herp derp TFA was actually well written
mvdu 12.23.17	It was fun, and the acting was good. The script had some holes/bad lines, and explosions sometimes took the place of plot development, but I give it an 8/10. Force Awakens is 9/10 with the 3 originals all being 10/10.
anarchistfish 12.23.17	i am definitely being too harsh on this film but it just has so much stupid shit in it
neekafat 12.23.17	I can't imagine thinking this is worse than TFA smh
anarchistfish 12.23.17	TFA was actually fun and had a plot that made sense
anarchistfish 12.23.17	ISNT THAT THE PIPIO)INT OF STAR WARS
neekafat 12.23.17	The plot was ass tho I will agree it was more fun
Papa Universe 12.23.17	okay, stop beating the dead horse let's focus on the good news that Tarantino will direct an episode of Star Trek..
anarchistfish 12.23.17	https://youtu.be/L9hwGZFPSmw?t=40m9s
anarchistfish 12.23.17	https://youtu.be/L9hwGZFPSmw?t=42m25s
anarchistfish 12.23.17	Denis Villeneuve Star Wars when
zaruyache 12.23.17	he's doing Dune so who tf cares about anything else?
zaruyache 12.23.17	Especially if he takes ideas from Jodorowsky it's guaranteed to be fantastic.
anarchistfish 12.23.17	i still need to finish the 1st chapter of that
zaruyache 12.23.17	It's kind of a slog bc it has all this political stuff and magic culty bs going on right from the get-go and it never feels inclined to explain any of it to you ever, so you just gotta figure it all out on your own. It's still rly rly good tho.
MO 12.23.17	at least we can all agree that when Dr. Sattler warp sped through the star destroyer it was too fucking dope
anarchistfish 12.23.17	i should like political and magic culty
anarchistfish 12.23.17	"at least we can all agree that when Dr. Sattler warp sped through the star destroyer it was too fucking dope" nah some ppl still bitch about that like YOU CANT BREAkE THE UNIVERSE RULES like it's sci fi
Space Jester 12.23.17	“Denis Villeneuve Star Wars when” I was just talking with a friend about that, would be sick. Blade Runner was my favorite film this year
anarchistfish 12.23.17	someone at disney will definitely think of this at some point it is inevitable
zaruyache 12.24.17	they plan on making movies for like the next 20 years so there's definitely enough room.
Source 12.24.17	Didn't think there could be a worse star wars movie than the force awakens. i was dead wrong
Egarran 12.24.17	Yeah that was pretty stupid, considering the prequels.
Egarran 12.24.17	That scene at the end with a dozen redesigned AT-ATs made me think of Malmsteen: "How can less be more? That's impossible. MORE IS MORE."
anarchistfish 12.24.17	the redlettermedia review says everything that has to be said about this movie
anarchistfish 12.24.17	how to fix this movie: cut out all the canto bight and OJ simpson chase trash. focus more on kylo/rey and luke's disconnection from the force. give leia finn and poe some side mission like, idk, they have to secure some border planet from the first order. put all your stupid goofy shit, explosions and merchandising in that. murder snoke if you want, dismiss rey's parentage if you want, kill off luke if you want, but build the main story on the main characters through these means rather than introducing side characters that mess with the structure of the main story and add nothing. kylo has his big revelation. rey can be left alienated and confused with the jedi (cos it's not like the actual movie even did that in the end despite "doing it's own thing"). luke dies. the side mission gives us the geospatial context this trilogy has direly needed and we're all set up for the next movie.
anarchistfish 12.24.17	they can even lose that border world if you want to amplify the theme of failure now that's more like the feeling of ESB
Source 12.24.17	"Yeah that was pretty stupid, considering the prequels." No this is garbage on a stick even compared to the awful prequels.
Faraudo 12.24.17	The only perpetually incorrect assessment about this movie is the one that actually dares to say that the prequels are somehow better.
Faraudo 12.24.17	"Denis Villeneuve Star Wars when" Lol, he would take double the risks than Rian Johnson (story-wise) did, and people would get even more pissed off at him. He's my favorite director but no, leave him alone.
Source 12.24.17	Nobody cares about your assessment of assessments.
Egarran 12.25.17	Don't be so aggressive when you are so wrong. Saying the prequels are better than this is some kind of cultural suicide.
Toondude10 12.25.17	saw this a second time, I love it even more now
Faraudo 12.25.17	It gets even better with repeated viewings.
LoLifant 12.25.17	So...your list titles trigger me.
AlexKzillion 12.25.17	"Saying the prequels are better than this is some kind of cultural suicide." Except it's actually lowkey true
TalonsOfFire 12.25.17	Villenueve already made a sci-fi masterpiece this year, and Rian Johnson did a fine job for the most part. Saying the prequels are better than this or TFA is laughable. After I've had a week to digest my feelings on TLJ, I think it's mostly an excellent movie with some of the series' best scenes (Rey and Kylo Ren's one-on-one moments, Luke's final scene), but wow, what a strange and messy plot progression. The casino scene was a low point for the series, and the characters besides Rey, Luke, and Kylo Ren just didn't have enough development or things to do to warrant much viewer investment imo. I have no idea where the story is going from here; honestly felt like a final film to me. So much setup from TFA was halted, and I was a little disappointed that Kylo Ren's apparent character development just resulted in him being even more evil by the end. Nothing really changed when the film ended, and everyone's pretty much at the same place they were before. A lot of feelings about this one, but mostly positive. At least there wasn't another death star to deal with lol
Toondude10 12.25.17	Well there was a mini-death star-like weapon tbh
TalonsOfFire 12.25.17	A few stories tall laser cannon is totally the same as a planet sized doomsday weapon yea
Storm In A Teacup 12.25.17	As long as they can get the words "death star" in the movie 😃
Toondude10 12.25.17	they technically did
TalonsOfFire 12.25.17	Anyways I think what's a little disappointing is that the movie gets really interesting, and things happen, and we learn more information in the middle, but by the end, nothing meaningful really happens and the situation hasn't really changed. Rey and Finn are still with a small group of rebels fighting the First Order, and Kylo Ren is more evil than ever and now leading them, even tho he basically said it was all bs and that he and Rey should tear it all down. That's what I wanted to see happen.
StarlessCore 12.25.17	prequels shit on this garbage
Storm In A Teacup 12.25.17	Sure give the guy who doesn't introduce anyone new for an audience to grow attached to a whole trilogy. Long love the Legends EU
unclereich 12.26.17	Down to a 7.6!!! Keep goin baby!!
Toondude10 12.26.17	dream all you like, I don't think that score is going down below at least a 7
sempiturtle 12.26.17	As long as its below ROTS I'm fine
Kalopsia 12.26.17	"but by the end, nothing meaningful really happens and the situation hasn't really changed" yep.. this almost feels like what Quantum of Solace did after Casino Royale.
JWT155 12.26.17	Like I mentioned earlier above, they had a great cyhance to create a new dynamic within the universe, either having Kylo join the good side and battle the empire for good or have Rey naivelly join Kylo and theink she could tunr him/join the dark side. Instead we get a very predictable final episode where most likely kylo fights rey and good prevails.
sempiturtle 12.26.17	Rey joining Kylo thinking she could turn him but then succumbing to the dark side herself would've been like 99999x more interesting. Who said Finn couldn't be made into the main goodie?
JWT155 12.26.17	Yes, but we can't let the lead heroine who sells a million toys turn into a baddie
Rolling Girl 12.26.17	TLJ is now probably my favorite star wars movie tbh
Kalopsia 12.26.17	then Finn would actually have a reason to be in the movies, beyond being the token black guy. we can't have that.
JWT155 12.26.17	him dying to save the rebellion would have given his character purpose.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	People who dont think Luke's character arc betrayed him clearly hasnt given much thought to the cyclical pattern of all the films to date. that was basically exactly where you should expect him to be at when you consider where you find Ben at the beginning of episode 4, after raising and failing Anakin, then hesitantly training Luke. Its literally the exact same shit but now Luke has failed Ben, and hesitantly trains Rey. and even with the entire first half of the movie being ham-fisted exposition for the lowest common denominator viewer so they dont get confused, the silent space explosion and the fight scene with Rey, Kylo, and Snoke's guards are two of the greatest things to happen in any of the star wars films. Also Leia force pulling herself into the space ship or whatever will probably go down as one of the greatest "I dont like sand" and "dont choke on your aspirations" moments of the franchise. that shit was hysterically cheesy. also Rian sent a cool character down a pit. Pretty sure you cant have a Star Wars movie without that
anarchistfish 12.26.17	this series is just a superhero franchise now that imdb review is correct
anarchistfish 12.26.17	i agree with pots kinda but that's really where the intricacies and legacy of the star wars saga complicate the writing. on it's own terms luke's arc here is some of the better character writing in the movie (apart from maybe kylo ren). if anything i think rian should've gone deeper into that at the expense of the fluff in the movie. if you want to try something new then you have to explore it more competently and with a stronger ear for tone. instead this movie gets tied up trying to be too many things at once and we don't really get enough time to get to know this aged Luke and buy his arc in the movie. Was that stuff at the end meant to be his redemption? But then nothing's changed? What are we supposed to have learnt the last 2 and a half hours? ppl say abrams set up too much mystery without proper direction but I think TFA set up a sequel better than this movie does. I don't envy abrams making IX and bringing this trilogy to cohesion. makes you wonder what it could've been like had he just been involved in writing each film. maybe even Rian Johnson and Abrams doing the whole trilogy. why did disney give the 3 films all to different people again?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	I agree with that, but tbh im also quite suspicious of disneys pressures on him and how that may have effected the film in the end
Kalopsia 12.26.17	Luke and Kylo are the only characters with any sort of arc, but as someone previously mentioned - Kylo's arc was nullified after his "destroy it all" speech and then he's just our big bad now. Luke's arc was so badly handled it was cringworthy, but i guess it's an actual arc at least.
anarchistfish 12.26.17	"I agree with that, but tbh im also quite suspicious of disneys pressures on him and how that may have effected the film in the end" oh yeah the whole superhero movie vibe stinks of disney.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	yeah, and the hamfisted exposition too, from what ive seen of rians other work thats not really his style. i have a hunch that he made coca-cola and then disney put it on diet.
anarchistfish 12.26.17	i would love to find out just what influences went into the writing of this movie cos Rian Johnson is credited as the sole writer of the film
anarchistfish 12.26.17	i wonder if stuff like the overcrowded cast is down to disney too maybe they promised to let him do something zanier with this trilogy (is that even official?)
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	totally
anarchistfish 12.26.17	*his trilogy
Koris 12.26.17	Carrie Fisher also assisted in the writing process
Gmork89 12.26.17	I usually don't like the whole idea of splitting the last movie into two movies, but I also think that might be the best way for Abrams to make sense of everything. I enjoyed this movie, but I feel like there is a lot of course correcting that needs to be done and a lot of questions that need to be answered, I don't see how they are going to do all of that with one more 2.5 hour movie.
Kalopsia 12.26.17	wont happen - then it wont be three trilogies DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH
Gmork89 12.26.17	I'm sure they will call it Episode 9 part one and two, so technically.....
Gmork89 12.26.17	Also, I don't know how in the hell Finns side quest didn't involve Phasma, that's so obviously the most interesting shit that could have happened with both of their characters. He should have been captured en-route to Vegas, and taken prisoner and had some cool interrogation shit where she explains why the first order rules and he refutes it and explains why he lost faith in the order and they get in each others heads and its some cool character development.
Kalopsia 12.26.17	ure so edgy plane
hal1ax 12.26.17	saw it last night. i liked every scene with both rey and kylo. i was into their dynamic. i also clicked with the snoke death, and i know a lot of people have been harping on that or on the way it happened yada yada. umm, fin / rose's side arc i thought was just uninteresting though. they needed way less screen time imo. maybe in exchange for some actual salient training moments between rey and luke, instead of the half-baked training sequence we got
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	"this movie was the best movie of a pretty bad franchise which hasn't been good since the first one which was good for every reason (goofy, fun, exciting) except the one rabid fans devoured it for (lore, character history, incest)" lmao i love u
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	and yeah snokes death was another one of the best parts of the film finn and rose are terrible characters agreed and the only way to have saved that is by having the girl who played rose's sister play rose instead of her and having finn and phasma's relationship actually amount to something.
Tyler. 12.26.17	really disliked this movie
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	first half i was more concerned with threatening the dumbfuck behind me to shut the fuck up but once that was sorted i liked the second half.
Kalopsia 12.26.17	noisy neckbeard?
hal1ax 12.26.17	"finn and rose are terrible characters agreed and the only way to have saved that is by having the girl who played rose's sister play rose instead of her and having finn and phasma's relationship actually amount to something." yea man i agree with this. and yea all of my friends took issue with snoke's death / or the manner in which they set it up, but i really liked it. was one of the more interesting parts of the film.
hal1ax 12.26.17	i hear people say it's lame that snoke, being as seemingly powerful as he was, wasn't able to presage kylo killing him. to me it just felt like he really underestimated kylo's ambivalence / inner-conflict and maybe this just clouded his clairvoyance ? or something lol.
Valkoor952 12.26.17	Kylo got his ass beaten by a scavenger girl who learned the force for about a day. How can someone like that be a threat to someone like Snoke, or be a big baddie in any way. I'm not buying it. They fucked up when they marry sued rey's ass. She was literally able to read Kylo's mind in the first one and she is a NOBODY. Snoke would have a field day with him. And yeah I've been saying Finn is an awful character since TFA.
Tyler. 12.26.17	snoke was fuckin retarded cause it turned out he was just some dude like ok and then he died in the most retarded way so ok doesnt even matter i guess
Tyler. 12.26.17	like in the previoous movie there was the build up cause he was a huge projection that made him look like a monster or someone with a really fucked up face but nope he is just some guy i guess idk super super dumb
Tyler. 12.26.17	finn/rose subplot was boring and uniteresting and i had to keep myself from laughing when they released the animals into the casino lmao yeah guys u go
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	"noisy neckbeard?" some stupid teenage asian kids that were presumably baked or drunk. kept talking loudly so i turned around and asked if they planned on talking through the whole movie and they shut up and didnt say anything for like 15 minutes and then started again so I turned around and asked them if we were gonna have a problem and then they shut up for the rest of the movie after letting out a snarky spineless teenage chortle
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	"i hear people say it's lame that snoke, being as seemingly powerful as he was, wasn't able to presage kylo killing him. to me it just felt like he really underestimated kylo's ambivalence / inner-conflict and maybe this just clouded his clairvoyance ? or something lol." agreed. it became pretty clear that snoke was a total power crazed hack when he started playing with rey like a toy. he had no idea what he was getting himself into. he dug his own grave.
ShitsofRain 12.26.17	50% trash, 50% tolerable
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	"snoke was fuckin retarded cause it turned out he was just some dude like ok and then he died in the most retarded way so ok doesnt even matter i guess" and why should it matter? do all villains have to turn out to be formidable? i find it infinitely more interesting that he turned out to pretty much be nothing but a red herring.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	"like in the previoous movie there was the build up cause he was a huge projection that made him look like a monster or someone with a really fucked up face but nope he is just some guy i guess idk super super dumb" why is that dumb to subvert your expectations and misdirect your attention to a false antagonist?
Valkoor952 12.26.17	Yeah well, I found the Mandarin red herring in Iron Man 3 interesting, but then again everyone shits on it so I guess no. Nothing about Snoke was explained he was just tossed out there and bam he's gone as useless as he appeared. Like where did he come from, how did he contact Kylo, where did he learn the force and from who. Questions that should have at least been answered. P.S Glad my 2000th comment was used to shit on TLJ
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	the mandarin red herring is one of the worst things thats ever happened to me "Nothing about Snoke was explained he was just tossed out there and bam he's gone as useless as he appeared. Like where did he come from, how did he contact Kylo, where did he learn the force and from who. Questions that should have at least been answered." ...its a trilogy. people were saying the same shit when episode 5 came out. patience yet my friend.
hal1ax 12.26.17	eh i'm not really sure how relevant those details would've been. i mean had you known snoke's backstory would that have made his relatively trivial death anymore excusable to you? i think his mystique was cool and it kind of added to his characters perceived gravitas.. which made his effortless demise the more interesting and really for me it just made kylo's character more interesting as well. i mean i can see why someone would be disappointed but i rly dug it
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	i agree with that as well
hal1ax 12.26.17	well said plane
Rowan5215 12.26.17	Dude plane's comment [2] [3] [4] up to fuckin [∞ ]
Rowan5215 12.26.17	I mainly meant his one about this being a bad franchise since New Hope but I'll also [2] that new comment
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	yeah i really couldnt care less about snokes back story tbqh
Rowan5215 12.26.17	I don't know if I have much to add that hasn't been said but I'll throw at least three cents in Star Wars movies have always had terrible writing. the original trilogy is full of ridiculous plot contrivances, out-of-character moments, anticlimax etc etc. the thing is New Hope, and to a lesser extent Empire leant into that and just accepted them as part and parcel of making movies about fuckin space cowboys fighting each other (and most importantly, running around bantering before and after fighting each other). once the movies lost that and pretended to be some nuanced Dune-style examination of space politicals, or worse just re-created it with none of the fun or joy or personality (fucking TFA) you have pure shit so yeah this movie was awfully paced, ridiculously scripted, and completely inane at times. and it completely leant into it and revelled in the joy of making a movie about fuckin' space cowboys again, and for that alone its the best since Empire easily
Rowan5215 12.26.17	on top of that, it was the first movie to be more than competently directed since....... probably Empire again. like Rian's visuals were so far ahead of anything in the last two trilogies... it's not just the chamber fight or the lightspeed suicide shot, though those were breathtaking, but even his use of colour just adds to the breathless fun of it all. tbh I don't even hate the Finn/Rose sideplot (though it could have been trimmed quite a lot) partially because of the stupid fun and partially because of Benicio Del Tero and as someone who hates original trilogy Luke with a fiery passion, adding some conflict to him was the best possible choice they could have made, and I found myself thinking Mark Hamill was the best part of this movie a lot of the time. (him throwing his lightsaber after the cliffhanger of TFA literally instantly sold me on this entire movie). plus Kylo Ren is the only actually interesting character in a traditional sense in the whole franchise - Abrams will definitely destroy that by villianising him then redeeming him in the last moments of the next Ep but whatever - his conflict and layers in this movie were really interesting
hal1ax 12.26.17	another aspect of the film i struggled with was how they wrote luke / kylo's falling out. i mean, in the original trilogy luke was this paragon of optimism and purity, being one of the only characters who discerned a tinge of hope in vader. even yoda and obi wan were cynical compared to luke. and then here we have him, in some extemporaneous moment, preparing to terminate this child to whom he is related, out of some prescient feeling that he possesses or has the capacity for some dark and terrible power?? does this seem like luke? to me it feels almost like they betrayed luke's character. what do u guys think?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	"and as someone who hates original trilogy Luke with a fiery passion, adding some conflict to him was the best possible choice they could have made, and I found myself thinking Mark Hamill was the best part of this movie a lot of the time. (him throwing his lightsaber after the cliffhanger of TFA literally instantly sold me on this entire movie)." yes. "i mean, in the original trilogy luke was this paragon of optimism and purity, being one of the only characters who discerned a tinge of hope in vader. even yoda and obi wan were cynical compared to luke. and then here we have him, in some extemporaneous moment, preparing to terminate this child to whom he is related, out of some prescient feeling that he possesses or has the capacity for some dark and terrible power?? does this seem like luke? to me it feels almost like they betrayed luke's character. what do u guys think?" i think his realization of the potential danger is just. if he actually killed Ben that would be a betrayal to his character but he realized the hypocrisy of that and decided against it. too bad ben saw anyways, and so even though that hope ended up shining through and correcting his choice, the very thing he worried about happened anyways. imagine being so hopeful your whole life and then having a second of self-doubt dismantle your entire empire. no wonder he fucked off. that would be heart-breaking.
hal1ax 12.26.17	yea that's a fair point. i guess i just go into these films with too high an expectation that they honor certain old star wars aspects, and when i saw luke the way he was i was almost unnerved. i think i need to watch it a second time with a diff attitude lol
Rowan5215 12.26.17	it's not like Luke is incapable of evil thoughts lmao he wasn't some perfect diamond of purity no matter how much the trilogy wanted us to think that I mean he considered killing the Emperor out of anger and fucked up Jabba's entire complex (arguably out of self-defense but still pretty brutally). what TLJ did really well was showing how one poor decision can ripple out - we start with this depressed angry Luke and are like "what the fuck happened to him", and then the way we gradually trace back to him making one bad choice in that moment was really cool
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	agreed hard
hal1ax 12.26.17	yea i mean him running amok at jabba's and lashing out toward the emperor were arguably moral decisions though. his momentary lapse with kylo was really the first deeply utilitarian / amoral thing i can recall seeing from him. again the complaint is more my perceptual problem than it is a problem with the film i think lol. but ya u guys make good points.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	yeah but he literally didnt even do it he just thought about it
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	its not like good people dont ever have bad thoughts.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	also he totally should have done it lmao.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	its not like he was like "wow ben just talked back to me i should probably kill him before intergalactic genocide" it was more like "i have this deep connection to a magical force and can literally see this person bubbling over with darkness and terrible power."
hal1ax 12.26.17	for me it's not as simple as good people can't have bad thoughts. it's more about a character who has never shown an ounce of cynicism is having a deeply sordid and pessimistic episode. i'm not saying this is impossible or even unrealistic it just felt odd to me i guess.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	thats hardly even an amoral thought. killing one man to potentially save thousands? pretty standard philosophical conundrum.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	ok well you saw optimism in luke where i saw a blundering idiot.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	literally stumbling his way through the galaxy fucking shit up
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	im glad he had a moment of clarity amongst his history of naivety
hal1ax 12.26.17	no that is amoral ... to murder a child based on a forecast of the future that isn't set in stone is absolutely amoral.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	provide me the universal value system that dictates that that is amoral. your values arent the only values. and again, this is a prophetic vision of the dude literally exploding with dark energy. its not a hunch.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	if you were presented with a kid that had an 80% chance of murdering millions of people it would be amoral to NOT consider killing him.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	I M O
Rowan5215 12.26.17	agreed, but literally just a second's contemplation of that amoral action was enough to send him into depression and isolation for, I don't understand the timeline but like at least a hundred years or whatever seems pretty in character that he would be so hurt by that darkness he would just retreat. the original trilogy sort of vaguely grapples with the idea that he doesn't want to be a hero but TLJ actually shows us the consequence of being a legend in your universe
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	""absolutely amoral" yes, luke thinks so too... regardless of whichever line Pots actually falls on, this is still a "pretty standard philosophical conundrum" that we see him deal with. we've also seen with kenobi that just living to any adult age makes a mockery of your youthful optimism. shit came full circle, which is also a point that the film made." 123. he decided it was amoral to kill the child that was probably gonna kill everyone because there was a small chance he wouldnt. and it got millions killed. either stance can be argued.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.26.17	"agreed, but literally just a second's contemplation of that amoral action was enough to send him into depression and isolation for, I don't understand the timeline but like at least a hundred years or whatever" but didnt ben wake up seeing Luke over him with the lightsaber and pretty much promptly burn everything to the ground?
hal1ax 12.27.17	are these visions infallible ? if they were, u would be right, it would be an easy utilitarian solution, kill a boy to save thousands or millions whatever, but u cannot say with assuredness that this prescient feeling was inevitable truth, and so to act on it is amoral. i'm not projecting my values on to anything lol. my point is that luke isn't god nor are his visions concrete
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	not infallible. very probable. hope is literally what stopped him from doing it and also what in turn broke him. "but u cannot say with assuredness that this prescient feeling was inevitable truth, and so to act on it is amoral." yes i can say with extreme confidence that if there is a minute chance that you are wrong about someone growing up to slaughter the entire galaxy that it is not inherently amoral to consider euthanizing him. again its not like he walked in and saw the kid masturbating and decided he was going to hell.
hal1ax 12.27.17	but yea luke being thrown into reclusiveness and depression just for considering acting on this urge reinforces him as being a truly good character or whatever. i was just saying hypothetically acting on that would be amoral imo
hal1ax 12.27.17	haha yea i see your point
Rowan5215 12.27.17	lmao this is why I hate the force awakens so much plane. the only good thing it did for the universe was setting us up for that lightsaber toss. and even then you know abrams just thought "oh well how can I build some anticipation for Luke's appearance? I know he's hiding out on some obscure ass island. why? not my problem lmao have fun Rian" and ye Pots you're right but I'm still a little unclear on what Ben actually, y'know, did at that point did he actually kill the students or did they become the Knights of Ren or whatever did he immediately go to Snoke and help bring down the Jedi order or was Snoke already making moves? I think it's not clear enough what happened to determine Luke's culpability in the events - but either way he knows he fucked up which is whats important to this movie
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	"my point is that luke isn't god nor are his visions concrete" what does god have to do with anything? you'd get a different argument and perspective for this from every different religion. how is having a hunch and literally being connected to a prophetic force that is empirically verifiable in this universe the same?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	" this. plus luke the optimist thought it was his duty to create this place for jedis to learn and he got high off his own fumes which eventually led to feeling like he has to be the authority on a lot of things, namely killing his nephew because a really strong feeling told him to. that would fuck up a lot of people. what else could possibly have driven him to hiding that would satisfy people and not make luke look like a total cowardly jagweed? thanks abrams with your fucking mystery box" lmao yaaas slay
hal1ax 12.27.17	ugh. when i say god i mean he isn't infallible. how can you say empirically verifiable? how can u say there would've been a minute chance of him being wrong? this is conjecture. we don't even know if this was a prophetic vision maybe he sensed power and acted out of emotion or stress.. you are presuming
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	@rowan im pretty positive he converted some of the jedi to the ren, and then slaughtered everyone else with them and burned the temple down.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	"ugh. when i say god i mean he isn't infallible. how can you say empirically verifiable? how can u say there would've been a minute chance of him being wrong? this is conjecture. we don't even know if this was a prophetic vision maybe he sensed power and acted out of emotion or stress.. you are presuming" i can say empirically verifiable because the force is a scientific real quantifiable thing in this universe, not some voodoo astrology. i can say that the chance of him being wrong was minute because he is extremely in touch with a scientifically sound force in the universe that showed him a vision of Ben murdering the galaxy. not conjecture. observation. and alas, the prophetic vision was to be true, he's already murdered millions. even if he gets redemption you cant bring those people back.
Rowan5215 12.27.17	so was Kylo actually the one who brought down the Jedi order then? I feel like I might have missed that if it was ever said but I haven't watched TFA in two years so it's faded a bit
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	there is proof and evidence that the force is prophetic and real all across the star wars universe. i mean you can watch it literally be a thing. its not the same as saying jesus whispered in your ear.
hal1ax 12.27.17	empirical huh? so no jedi or sith has ever had an apocryphal vision ? they're all tried and true. everyone attuned to the force is impeccably clairvoyant? you also know that he acted out of his force presaging powers and not out of impulsivity and emotion? your observations are conjecture.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	"so was Kylo actually the one who brought down the Jedi order then? I feel like I might have missed that if it was ever said but I haven't watched TFA in two years so it's faded a bit" thats my understanding so far but maybe ive missed something. i thought he brought it all down with the rens and then went off looking for more power.
zaruyache 12.27.17	kylo ended the jedi only if you consider makeshift padawans to be jedi
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	"empirical huh? so no jedi or sith has ever had an apocryphal vision ? they're all tried and true. everyone attuned to the force is impeccably clairvoyant? you also know that he acted out of his force presaging powers and not out of impulsivity and emotion? your observations are conjecture." as ive said approximately 5000x, there is truth to the force in that universe to substantiate that the visions are true, human interpretation is the problem. and as ive also said about 5000x i dont think the humans are infallible. not conjecture. observation from watching the movies.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	i can tell you are getting a bit upset hal1 because you are arguing against things that i havent even said at this point so we can just discontinue this conversation if you want.
hal1ax 12.27.17	right and my point is that unless it is a certainty , imo, u have to go with not terminating him. which he did make the right choice. this turned into a weird moral argument lol. sry
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	ok and i agree that if there isnt enough certainty then it is amoral but in this universe where the force is a 'real' scientific phenomena, the minute chance that his interpretation of the vision was incorrect (and as it turned out, the vision was spot on) is different than interpreting the visions of a god that you have no way of proving is real. thats all
hal1ax 12.27.17	that's fair
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	like yeah we shouldnt be killing kids on a hunch but like if a doctor tells me theres an 80% chance i have the clap i'll probably take the medication lmao
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	a doctor is just using his best understanding of science and biology to make the right call. a religious preacher is using dogma and ideas seemingly pulled out of thin air to make the right call. different in my eyes. its not like doctors always make the right call, they fuck people up all the time by accident but as professionals its their duty to use their knowledge to make the right call.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	i see luke as a doctor not a preacher
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	needless to say that would be a rough call.
Rowan5215 12.27.17	or Luke was a doctor who thought he was a preacher damn thas gettin deep
hal1ax 12.27.17	Haha yea i understand. I guess I’m just confused as to how we are generating statistical odds of his vision being correct (despite the fact that it was correct). I just feel like maybe an objective utilization of the force can maybe yield the correct forecasting of events but how do emotions play a role in this ? Can they cloud the visions drawn from the force driven presaging ? I guess I don’t know enough about Star Wars and it seems like u know a lot so I’ll leave it alone.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	haha well i made the odds up of course but it was just to make my point. emotions are obviously the part that clouds sith and jedi's interpretations and thats why they cant be infallible. maybe they should have gotten a jedi with less of an emotional connection to ponder it. perhaps a conflict of interest lmaoo.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	lmao rowan
hal1ax 12.27.17	Haha
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	luke got himself into a melisandre
hal1ax 12.27.17	Did u like it better than TFA pots ?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	i liked the second half of it better than TFA but was bored to tears by the first half save a few moments. TFA was good nostalgic for me, i dont have much to say about it other than that i enjoyed it.
hal1ax 12.27.17	Yea agreed. Second half was much better
hal1ax 12.27.17	Overall I guess it had much higher highs than TFA and a few lower lows. I prob enjoyed TLJ a little more collectively though. Despite the glaring flaws.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	last jedi definitely had higher highs but actually had more lower lows. like i was thinking of walking out during the first half but i was entertained for the entire duration of TFA
TalonsOfFire 12.27.17	I don't see the Force as being scientific; if anything, these new movies (rightfully) throw out the nonsense explanation in the prequels, and it's back to essentially being magic. How these humans, who train to essentially be disciplined space ninjas/samurais in a vast universe, deal with human flaws that corrupt them or cause miscalculation is what makes things interesting, like where Luke is at in this film dealing with Kylo Ren, the most interesting character of both these movies, and how Anakin turned to the dark side if they got a different actor and writer to pull that story off and make it really compelling and interesting. I think that's as far as understanding of the Force can get without getting into guesswork. I still really enjoyed this movie, its 8/10, but it was messy. That whole B-story with Finn really got lame at times. Pretty much all the humor fell flat for me too. I really hope they tie this all together in IX, because TFA and this barely really hold up on their own in a lot of ways, despite still being great movies, but I feel like other modern sci-fi films are able to really focus and stand on their own as fantastic, original movies like Ex Machina, Blade Runner 2049, Max Max, Arrival, etc. and I honestly get more satisfaction out of those. If IX is able to tie it all together then it'll be worth it though. Like who really cares who Snoke is and if Rey's parents are no one special. I just wish she and Kylo Ren tried teaming up and rejecting both good and evil, like what had been building up to between them, and getting to see where that would go.
AlexKzillion 12.27.17	I didn't really have a huge problem with Luke almost killing Kylo in his sleep as much as I had a problem with the idea of having flashbacks (and slow motion) in a star wars movie
sempiturtle 12.27.17	Flashbacks and slow motion gives me that LOTR vibe lol
polyrhythm 12.27.17	"Saying the prequels are better than this is some kind of cultural suicide" "I still really enjoyed this movie, its 8/10, but it was messy." [2s] to you both
Valkoor952 12.27.17	Luke's arc was handled very badly, even Mark Hamill himself said that he disagreed with virtually every decision Rian Johnson took with his character. For me they completely shitted on every resolution and victory he had achieved in the original saga.
Valkoor952 12.27.17	Rots is easily better than this and TFA, sorry.
polyrhythm 12.27.17	Just saw it a second time and honestly, this is one of the better films in the series. Probably the 3rd or 4th best one. Some cheesy and nonsensical moments, but as others have said in this thread, every SW movie has those. I liked Luke ending up a bitter and regretful old man, Rey being an incredibly force-sensitive nobody, and Snoke getting a lightsaber up his ass before his archvillain origins and plans were disclosed. Did people honestly want Luke to be the same chipper farmboy, Rey to be Rey Skywalker and Emperor Snoke the villain of the third film? Those surprises were all very much welcome, and best for the story Tried to rewatch the prequels recently and that was the most joyless experience ever. Faux-politics and ugly CGI, all filmed like a daytime soap opera. Fuck man, I'd take Kylo and Luke's "battle" over the ridiculous helicopter lightsaber fights of II and III. Duel of the Fates is awesome, but that's one cool scene in a dire movie. TJL had half a dozen scenes that rank among the series' best
polyrhythm 12.27.17	ROTS is a dumpster fire
Valkoor952 12.27.17	This already has a 7.5 on imdb lmao.
Valkoor952 12.27.17	"Did people honestly want Luke to be the same chipper farmboy, Rey to be Rey Skywalker and Emperor Snoke the villain of the third film?" See what you're doing is narrowing it down, instead neglecting that there were 100 directions they could have taken with these characters that would've been imminently better than the one they did, or the dire ones you list as if they're the only possible outcomes that could've happened.
unclereich 12.27.17	Besides some awkward moments due to writing ep 3 is a great movie. Way better than this or tfa but thats not saying much. Id still say ep 2 is the worst though 7 and 8 are prettttty fucking bad.
Egarran 12.27.17	"I don't see the Force as being scientific" Ah, you are blissfully ignorant of midi-chlorians. Small dudes living in your blood, the more you have, the more Force you have.
polyrhythm 12.27.17	Imminently better? Tf does that mean I don't think the direction they took those characters in was THE best direction they could have gone in, no. There are certainly things I would have done differently myself. Nor were the routes they took the craziest ones. They could have had Snoke be Mace Windu, Rey be Sheev's transgender daughter and Luke be Luuuke if they really wanted to. Joking aside, I've seen numerous posts around the web from people who are specifically upset at Rey not being a Skywalker (something something why is she so powerful otherwise), Snoke not being Plagueis, and Luke being grumpy and cynical and "out of character", by which they mean he's acting unlike his hopeful, youthful old self... which is answered by a simple "he isn't that person anymore"
unclereich 12.27.17	Its salt
unclereich 12.27.17	Not hoth its salt we're not copying ep 5
unclereich 12.27.17	Can you please put a towel on No
unclereich 12.27.17	Hey chewie han solo your best friend died how you feelin? Good imma eat this porg then stay on this ship the rest of the film
polyrhythm 12.27.17	Chewie didn't have an arc! 0/10 Seriously, go through the OT with a comb that fine, and you'll tear them to shreds
Rowan5215 12.27.17	yeah where was Chewie's sad monologue about his feelings scored by sombre violins unwatchable
polyrhythm 12.27.17	ROTS' only flaw was some bad writing? You seem to have forgotten a consistently horrible script, shit pacing, a wasted nothing villain, the tacky plastic aesthetic in general, some truly dated PS2 cutscene CGI, claw-your-eyes-out acting and flat direction. If you can just look past those flaws, though, it's a great film! Kashyyyk is so epic xD
polyrhythm 12.27.17	Though ROTS does deserve some special recognition, I mean for half an hour it actually felt like a Star Wars movie
unclereich 12.27.17	The plot can have no actual direction or point as long as the cgi is good 8/10 - rotten tomatoes
Faraudo 12.27.17	TLJ is the 3rd better movie of the whole saga. Everyone sets their expectations way to high. It's not art house cinema, it's fucking Star Wars, and the whiny ass fandom has to stop. It's ok to hate the movie, but gimme some good fucking reasons for it.
Koris 12.27.17	Honestly, I think a lot of the hate on Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes is from people using bots to constantly review-bomb the score. Especially since polls like CinemaScore reflect a much higher audience reception
Faraudo 12.27.17	Actually, several people have admitted to use bots to bomb the score... And that speaks quite a lot on how fucking lame the SW fanbase is.
anarchistfish 12.27.17	people have claimed that they have done that but RT say their systems haven't detected anything out of place and why would ppl admit to doing that anyway read the reviews and you see just how many people are unhappy with the film for good reasons or bad
Faraudo 12.27.17	There's also a thing called "alt accounts." Believe me, this fanbase is capable of creating fake Email adresses just to make infinite RT accounts to bomb it. Yeah, I know there's plenty of people that's unhappy, I've read PLENTY of reviews (Good and bad). Do you know there's also a whole fucking lot of people that really liked the movie; to the extent of calling it the best since Empire?
anarchistfish 12.27.17	yh and apparently many of those people would rather believe that the criticism is exaggerated and to an extent fabricated rather than face up to the serious flaws in the writing of this movie
anarchistfish 12.27.17	i wasn't even that mad after watching the movie but the kind of attitude exemplified in this bbc article really grinds my gears www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42424445
unclereich 12.27.17	Russian collusion
anarchistfish 12.27.17	mainstream media is determined to bounce on this movie's dick
Koris 12.27.17	I can admit the flaws of the film, and am completely willing to do so. But I also think the Star Wars fanbase takes shit way too seriously. I grew up with the franchise too, and I never saw the original trilogy as movies to worship and praise as the most incredible space operas. They're just fun sci-fi movies
Faraudo 12.27.17	"I can admit the flaws of the film, and am completely willing to do so. But I also think the Star Wars fanbase takes shit way too seriously. I grew up with the franchise too, and I never saw the original trilogy as movies to worship and praise as the most incredible space operas. They're just fun sci-fi movies" Exactly, I'm not saying the movie's perfect, it has a whole lot of fucking flaws, and I could definitely sit down and talk about them. I could also sit down and talk about all the flaws in Empire, so on and so on. My point is that despite the flaws, there is a pretty fucking entertaining film in there that took plenty of risks and looked for a new direction, because JJ was fucking taking it to the point of irrelevance.
Toondude10 12.27.17	And I thought the Undertale fanbase was toxic as fuck, this almost takes it to a whole new level.
Ocean of Noise 12.27.17	I liked TLJ a lot. It was a lot of fun, messy, but ultimately more engaging than TFA. My only real concern is that there isn't a lot of setup for what really happens in the next episode but I'm sure Abrams will figure something out and make it good
anarchistfish 12.27.17	i think we can all agree that disney should've got jj abrams and rian johnson locked in a room in 2014/15 to work all this shit out in the first place. since rian was chosen as the director for VIII in like what, 2014?
anarchistfish 12.27.17	"And I thought the Undertale fanbase was toxic as fuck, this almost takes it to a whole new level." sorry, it's actually one of the voices in my head. i should probably get that checked out too cos they only started after i watched this fucking star wars movie
AlexKzillion 12.27.17	I wish this movie was as good as some you guys are making it out to be fr but it just isn't
Kalopsia 12.27.17	"But I also think the Star Wars fanbase takes shit way too seriously" yep, it's like being a Tool fan.
Faraudo 12.27.17	"I wish this movie was as good as some you guys are making it out to be fr but it just isn't" It isn't for you, my dude.
AlexKzillion 12.27.17	It really isn't
Valkoor952 12.27.17	"I wish this movie was as good as some you guys are making it out to be fr but it just isn't" Word Also " the ratings on every single review site are low gurrrrr lame auto bots gurrrrrr there's no way people have a different opinion than me gurrr" I fucking hate that logic. A lot of people don't like the movie period, stop trying to make excuses. RT themselves said that their systems haven't been touched. And don't give me that alt account bullshit cause this isn't sputnik where you can change the rating with 10 votes or some shit. The majority of people dislike this movie, why's that so hard to understand.
Kalopsia 12.27.17	"It doesn't set up "a lot of things," it sets up anything, and that's an important and awesome distinction." except it's Disney and JJ Abrams, so it's going to be safe as fuck especially in response to TLJ.
CygnusX1 12.27.17	Why do people keep expecting a good story in a Star Wars film? Every movie since the OT has been garbage story wise.
Valkoor952 12.27.17	Actually the prequels had a good story, it was just badly executed.
Kalopsia 12.27.17	lol @ prequels having a good story
hal1ax 12.27.17	"yeah where was Chewie's sad monologue about his feelings scored by sombre violins unwatchable" lmao
Kalopsia 12.27.17	i'd watch a Chewie movie in the vein of Dawn/War for the Planet of the Apes
AlexKzillion 12.27.17	Chewie spinoff placed in between episode III and IV Battle of Kashyyyk... bring back some eu with the Wookies being enslaved to build the death star or whatever have a scene where Vader fucks some shit up maybe a Han cameo fanbase would eat it up yeah
anarchistfish 12.27.17	"it sets up anything, and that's an important and awesome distinction." this is exactly my worry though. this is just a superhero franchise now.
Kalopsia 12.27.17	what movie did you watch?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.27.17	"RT themselves said that their systems haven't been touched." I DID NOT SLEEP WITH THAT WOMAN
theacademy 12.27.17	why are people making the 'i wish blockbusters would be self contained stories again" argument in the context of star wars, a property designed from inception as a saga lol
Toondude10 12.27.17	"this is exactly my worry though. this is just a superhero franchise now." if that's the argument you're going for then Star Wars was a superhero franchise to begin with
TalonsOfFire 12.28.17	What plane said [2] The best, or at least the most solid, sci-fi and fantasy sagas all had films that stood on their own while at the same time servicing a larger, more ambitious narrative, like Harry Potter, TLotR, Hunger Games I suppose, and plenty of others. There need to be strong stand-alone films that have at least some sense of completion and getting somewhere, while still having a large, compelling goal to achieve as the backdrop. The original trilogy did this very well. That's what makes the viewer or reader coming back for more, but they shouldn't be strung along and cheated, like in the recent seasons of The Walking Dead TV show for example. Even though I really liked TLJ and had some of my favorite scenes of the whole series, my main gripe, besides the humor and overall messiness, is how little actually changed from the beginning of the movie to the end. Pretty much everyone is in the same place as before, which for all that we see happen over the 2 1/2+ hours, is a little disappointing in retrospect. Like I and others have said, hopefully IX will bring it all together, and my bet is that Abrams will pull it off given his track record. Both TFA and this are excellent, but they are certainly not without their flaws.
polyrhythm 12.28.17	Of course they have their flaws, but they're entertaining movies with heart and with flair, which cannot be said of eps I-III. As far as story goes, the prequels had easily the most substantial overarching narrative, but failed to be engaging. The new trilogy is more like the OT, in that the story is pretty much the rebels versus the fascists, with the palpable change between one installment and the next being character development, rather than a radically different state of the universe. Sure, TJL ends roughly where it starts as far as the conflict goes, but the main characters (Kylo and Rey) deepened and grew. Kylo's the most interesting character in the whole franchise, and Rey's been significantly more tempted to the dark than Luke had been by this point in the OT. These two leads, and the universe as a whole, can go anywhere from here. There's a rare untethered freedom here that Star Wars hasn't possessed since ANH, and that's all thanks to TJL.
TalonsOfFire 12.28.17	These are light years ahead of the prequels, and have more heart and engagement yea. There was character development in TLJ, and Kylo Ren is the most interesting, but he just ended up being even more evil. The potential for him and Rey to do something different together was so promising after killing Snoke, and it kinda got squandered. Rey went through a lot, but what about her is different now? She's still fighting the same fight, and is just as powerful as before; these movies don't really show her progression as a Jedi the way the OT did with Luke. That and the state of the galaxy with who's in charge & who's the underdog, the First Order or the Resistance, seems more up to interpretation.
theacademy 12.28.17	ugh potter and hunger games fucking sucked ass in the aggregate (and odd choices for examples here given that both shamelessly split last entries into two movies) @plane - agree to disagree i suppose... imo this suits star wars... suits comic book movies too... harmful in plenty of other contexts
sempiturtle 12.28.17	Didn't Potter sorta start the two part thing though
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.28.17	ok so i saw this retarded article about how star wars has been basically a feminist anti-authoritarian pro-racial diversity masterpiece culminating in the last jedi, apparently a subversive story about WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE and RACIAL EQUALITY and FEMINISM and now i have aids.
hal1ax 12.28.17	"Kylo's the most interesting character in the whole franchise" ya i actually think i agree with this.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.28.17	everyone loves kylo now but everyone complained about him being an emo bitch in tfa im confused
Rowan5215 12.28.17	I thought he was laughable in TFA (the moment when he took his helmet off for the first time is one of the funniest things I've ever seen) but TLJ gave him much more interesting layers and took him beyond emo budget Vader 2.0
hal1ax 12.28.17	he kinda was a bitch in TFA but he's always been interesting imo. love his inner-turmoil and ambivalence. like he's just constantly being racked in this force-moratorium state
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.28.17	he was literally the same in tfa
hal1ax 12.28.17	Um ok he’s still a bitch then. Can he be both a bitch and interesting ? What’s the deal here
Trophycase 12.28.17	Was pleasantly surprised by TLJ in that it seems like the director had far more vision than JJ. Enjoyed the movie, but there were obviously scenes where you're left wondering what the hell Johnson was thinking. Also Kylo felt like less of a bitch. Hard to explain why but I definitely felt that way.
Faraudo 12.28.17	"Sure, TJL ends roughly where it starts as far as the conflict goes, but the main characters (Kylo and Rey) deepened and grew. Kylo's the most interesting character in the whole franchise, and Rey's been significantly more tempted to the dark than Luke had been by this point in the OT. These two leads, and the universe as a whole, can go anywhere from here. There's a rare untethered freedom here that Star Wars hasn't possessed since ANH, and that's all thanks to TJL." Yes.
polyrhythm 12.28.17	Kylo was always pretty much Milhouse trying to cosplay as Vader tbh
Hep Kat 12.28.17	It was amazing. And I do not wish to palaver about how amazing it was.
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	Never felt like Kylo was ever a bitch (or OT Luke for that matter which I see a lot of people say)... but gotta agree with Pots he's like exactly the same in both movies
Toondude10 12.28.17	The thing about Kylo is that he tried to be Vader 2.0 In this one I felt like he's trying to now be more than that when Snoke insulted him in the beginning. Keyword "trying"
Kalopsia 12.28.17	"and Rey's been significantly more tempted to the dark than Luke had been by this point in the OT" she has? where? when? to what end? tempted just to be dark? she has no motivation to do anything through two movies, except find out who her parents were and oh they're nobody. now what?
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	Luke's long lost father revealed himself to be part of the darkside and asked Luke to join him so they could rule the galaxy as father and son... Rey fell into a dark pit of darkside only to snap out of it after like ten seconds or something... one was much more tempting than the other
Prancer 12.28.17	Leia scene solidified this movie as hot garbage for me. I'll suspend my disbelief, but when Hollywood expects me to completely disregard my disbelief because it's Star Wars then it's not a good movie. Movie had two cool scenes (Kylo and Rey vs Snoke's goons scene/Luke vs Kylo scene). Movie had so much ex machina moments, plot armor, mediocre acting performances, and Luke's "death" made no sense. This movie stooped to a Fast & Furious level of Hollywood.
CygnusX1 12.28.17	For a Star Wars movie it's a 8/10. For an actual movie, it's a rough 6/10. Enjoyable popcorn flick, but quite a mess of a script.
Gmork89 12.28.17	Jesus the Leia thing wasnt even that crazy in concept everyone needs to chill out, yeah it was executed awkwardly and didn't really work, but FFS she has the force, she survived in space for a few minutes and floated in USING THE MAGICAL FORCE, if that's the straw that broke the camels back for weird shit in a science fiction movie people have ever seen I don't know what to say. You can choke someone out, lift giant objects, read and control peoples minds, but oh man float through space fuck that they took it way too far!
Prancer 12.28.17	mainly because you would survive a few seconds if exposed in space which is what made the scene cringey. at least the force is explained with energy, but when did Leia even learn the force?
Kalopsia 12.28.17	"when did Leia even learn the force?" the same time Rey has done apparently - which is instantly and for whatever immediate purpose they need it for
Gmork89 12.28.17	So it needs to be spelled out that maybe she used the force to survive in space? Do you think the writers didn't know that people die is space or is it more likely using the force was implied? People are reading way too much into this shit.
Gmork89 12.28.17	Hearing peoples scientific analysis of a fantasy movie about battles in space and magic has gotten old fast. Like this is the first sci-fi movie to feature outlandish unrealistic bullshit.
Kalopsia 12.28.17	my amusement from everything is that people on both sides (heroes on both sides?? lawl amiright??) seem to sidestep the core argument and details of the other in favor of their own opinions.
Kalopsia 12.28.17	movie looked amazing story and characters were shit meh /thread
Toondude10 12.28.17	"but when did Leia even learn the force?" Luke did technically tell her that she could learn the same abilities
Gmork89 12.28.17	Yeah absolutely, I think that many aspects of the film were executed in a very bizarre way and a lot of time was wasted on boring shit. I think scrutinizing the science of it is just fruitless, you could run through the original trilogy with that mind frame and pick it to death, people need to focus on plot holes and flat out bizarre story decisions over the logic or science of it, if the counter argument is "its magic it can do anything" you're just wasting time pointing out how the physics of outer-space work. I use "You" generally not at you directly Kalopsia.
Toondude10 12.28.17	If you want to pick at the science in a film, go watch Interstellar
Egarran 12.28.17	It is another galaxy after all. The laws of science might be different.
TalonsOfFire 12.28.17	Getting worked up over the science of Star Wars isn't worth it. Egarran makes a good point, this takes place elsewhere anyways. Just enjoy the vistas and space battles. The Leia scene was strange and kinda came out of nowhere, but maybe they just wanted to give her a special moment or something to show she has some Force powers, idk.
Gmork89 12.28.17	I agree it was an awkward as hell scene but not because the science didn't make sense. I think the force and ghosts summoning lightning pretty much confirms that science is different in their galaxy haha.
CygnusX1 12.28.17	Science aside, seeing a CGI Carrie Fisher fly like Marry Poppins through space was dumb as hell
Gmork89 12.28.17	Yes that's exactly why it didn't work, it looked ridiculous.
Egarran 12.28.17	My thoughts were something like 'people are going to meme the shit out of this'.
Kalopsia 12.28.17	it might have been less awkward had we not just had Michael Rooker scream "I'M MARY POPPINS Y'ALL" just a few months ago
hal1ax 12.28.17	yea i think all of the physics arguments people are making are really dumb, but yea the scene just didn't even look good. can't believe they were ok with it lol.. like i saw very young kids in the theater laughing during the mary poppins force glide scene.
anarchistfish 12.28.17	ppl complaining about the leia scene are seriously nitpicking. she was always force sensitive so that potential was always there and rian johnson obviously wanted to exemplify this and bring back some of the mystery of the force. it's not always about "learning it" ffs
anarchistfish 12.28.17	"everyone loves kylo now but everyone complained about him being an emo bitch in tfa im confused" that is not how i remember things. i thought it was generally agreed he was one of the most interesting parts of TFA
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	"but oh man float through space fuck that they took it way too far!" It's a problem because a) It's not what happened it's who did it (if Luke did it would prob be fine) and b) it undercuts past events (if Leia can do it and then the Emperor can do it and nobody should be surprised if Ian Mcdiarmid gets second billing for the next movie)
hal1ax 12.28.17	i didn't even have a problem with what happened in the Leia scene per se, i just thought it looked bad. they could've made it look way better imo. and yea i remember ppl always thinking kylo was interesting too.
anarchistfish 12.28.17	"What superhero franchises are you watching? They're all daisy chained for Untitled Avengers Project 2021. TLJ completes an arc, and leaves a few strands that can go in an unexpected direction (not unlike ESB), versus some inevitable collision of signifiers and MacGuffins." the whole time i was thinking "this is an x men film." that redlettermedia review says it best: this is the prelude to the saturday morning tv show where Rey and the Rebellion fight the evil forces of Kylo Ren and the First Order. Although i admire some of the directions Johnson took on this movie i just don't see what arcs were meant to have been resolved in a coherent way. Good Star Wars film, bad sequel. Although they could go "anywhere" with the next movie what I fear is that they haven't really set up anything particularly interesting. I have no expectations to be subverted. I appreciate Johnson wanted to take Star Wars in a new direction but when EVERY SINGLE strand from TFA is dropped and Johnson tries to subvert SO MUCH and the message of the TLJ itself is so ambiguous I just don't care what this trilogy's resolution will look like. I fear whatever direction they take with the next movie will just feel arbitrary and hollow, or just hopelessly derivative
anarchistfish 12.28.17	this film felt like the kickstarter to a star wars movie every 2 years for the next 20 years which I assume is exactly what disney wants
anarchistfish 12.28.17	""but oh man float through space fuck that they took it way too far!" It's a problem because a) It's not what happened it's who did it (if Luke did it would prob be fine)" but leia's force sensitivity has been exemplified before..
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	Not to that extreme, nowhere near
anarchistfish 12.28.17	it's not that extreme "The idea is comparable to amazing feats of strength by humans under duress: lifting a car off a child, etc. About as farfetched as explosions in space." this^
hal1ax 12.28.17	eh and i mean if you're ok with Rey's inexplicable force aptitude you should def be ok with Leia activating some intrinsic force ability in a moment of life or death
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	I wasn't okay with that either
JWT155 12.28.17	It's the fact she floated after literally having the control room blown up (she should be in a million pieces or at least scratched up, but no she's all in one piece) and then after being blasted into space she's conveniently only mere feet away instead of you know, off in a distance after being blown out of a spaceship going who knows how fast. And she's stuck in outer space, with no protection, for who knows how long and survives to the point where she uses the force. Her using the force at that point is the least optimal part of the situation. It's like Indie surviving without a scratch after crawling out of a refrigerator after being blown up after a nuclear blast, it's jumping the shark. You kids can defend it, but it's simply bad writing pure and simple.
hal1ax 12.28.17	you must rly dislike the new star wars films then lol @alex
anarchistfish 12.28.17	sounds like you just have a stricter interpretation of the force than the writers do
anarchistfish 12.28.17	"You kids can defend it, but it's simply bad writing pure and simple." u can attack it but it's simply nitpicking pure and simple
JWT155 12.28.17	"The idea is comparable to amazing feats of strength by humans under duress: lifting a car off a child, etc. About as farfetched as explosions in space." Except lifting a car off a child is under assumable normal circumstances like normal day and gravity on earth, not in outer space in lethal temperatures and unable to breathe
hal1ax 12.28.17	@jwt - i mean this is a fantasy/sci-fi film... can the laws of physics maybe be different in this universe? i feel like these realism arguments are just rly weird. like why are we judging scenes in a star wars film based on a projected newtonian physics model?
Kalopsia 12.28.17	can we put the damn Leia scene to rest? it's plausible she could have explored using the force by herself or with Luke after the OT when she realized she could use it. No one should debate this. The problem is HOW the scene was depicted, in such a cartooney way. (I did actually lol in the theater) Fine idea, terrible execution. /Leia Poppins
JWT155 12.28.17	I guess we just don't see eye to eye then, but I'd hardly call my opinion "simply nitpicking pure and simple"
JWT155 12.28.17	@Kalopsia - I agree
anarchistfish 12.28.17	"I guess we just don't see eye to eye then, but I'd hardly call my opinion "simply nitpicking pure and simple"" i totally would. argue with the execution but if you wanna go down this rabbit-hole picking out the plausibility of star wars scenes then we're gonna be here forever based on this. the real problems with this film are much more engrained, in the structure, the tone, the dialogue, the general direction of the film darth vader had 3 limbs cut off, was set on fire and left to die and he survived but no one gives a shit
JWT155 12.28.17	"@jwt - i mean this is a fantasy/sci-fi film... can the laws of physics maybe be different in this universe? i feel like these realism arguments are just rly weird. like why are we judging scenes in a star wars film based on a projected newtonian physics model?" I'm all for having a universe that's completely different then ours, but unless the plot and writing has expressed either directly or through specific scenes how the universe is different, then I think it's more than plausible to say that everything else replicates our universe and using such an argument as "it's not using our universes physics logic/etc" is an outrageously shitty argument for bad writing. Any piece of art is viewed through the audiences eyes and applied to the logic they know, if we're going to argue that the Star Wars universe isn't bound by any of the ideas/laws/logic of our universe then anything goes I guess.
anarchistfish 12.28.17	the whole point of that kind of scene is an attempt by the writers to de-midichlorianise the concept of the force, explore its mystery and re introduce a sense of it's nebulousness and the relationship between force and force-user. in that context this is nothing but nitpicking. the writers setting out exactly what are the rules of the force, as you suggest, run totally counteractive to that
hal1ax 12.28.17	wait so they haven't yet expressed using a different physics model to ours? are u sure about that?? u gonna make me cite specific scenes?
JWT155 12.28.17	"darth vader had 3 limbs cut off, was set on fire and left to die and he survived but no one gives a shit" I mean there can at least be some logic applied to that, with lightsabers cauterization closes the wound, a person can survive without limbs, I'd hardly call that far fetched.
anarchistfish 12.28.17	this isnt sci fi
JWT155 12.28.17	I'll agree explosions in space, but that's also a trope that nearly all sci fi science fiction films follow and audiences seem to think should happen.
hal1ax 12.28.17	didn't they drop bombs in space in this film as well? does that not show us that physics in this universe works differently than our own? i'm sure there are many more examples. i mean i see your point but i just am not sure how u can say this hasn't yet been expressed
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	"you must rly dislike the new star wars films then lol @alex" Not the biggest fan yeah. I did kinda like Rogue One tho. "sounds like you just have a stricter interpretation of the force than the writers do" Good way to put it. "it's plausible she could have explored using the force by herself or with Luke after the OT when she realized she could use it. No one should debate this." This should be told to us... no reason why this should be inferred like at all, and if that's the writer's intent than they did a bad job "darth vader had 3 limbs cut off, was set on fire and left to die and he survived but no one gives a shit" That is not the same thing
anarchistfish 12.28.17	"I'll agree explosions in space, but that's also a trope that nearly all sci fi science fiction films follow and audiences seem to think should happen." the trope in this particular sci fi but-not-rly-sci-fi film is that the force is something mysterious and alien to ordinary human paradigms
TalonsOfFire 12.28.17	Kalopsia and plane are right on point. The flaws of TLJ or any other SW film have nothing to do with scientific accuracy, that's ridiculous to expect from a fantasy space saga set in another time and place. Getting hung up on that stuff is nitpicking.
anarchistfish 12.28.17	"didn't they drop bombs in space in this film as well? does that not show us that physics in this universe works differently than our own?" the bombs were magnetised or something but i have seen people complain about that scene too like HOLY FUCK PEOPLE USE YOUR FUCKING BRAINS
hal1ax 12.28.17	yea lmao i heard someone complaining about the bombs too. so fucking absurd.
Kalopsia 12.28.17	"This should be told to us" nope, show don't tell buddy. movies 101
AlexKzillion 12.28.17
JWT155 12.28.17	I think you're all getting me wrong, the science parts are the last thing I'm worried about in this movie being poor, and I've mentioned that time and time again. It is the writing. The fact that they chose to write scenes that stretch the boundaries of what the audience finds plausible is just another caveat to the poor writing and I expounded on it to show how ridiculous some think it is. Having explosions in space and bombs that drop is not the crux of my argument.
TalonsOfFire 12.28.17	Sandra Bullock using a fire extinguisher in space to propel herself to a spacecraft in Gravity is an example worth complaining about the scientific inaccuracy, but a fantasy saga in a mysterious galaxy about warriors and space wizards using laser swords and the Force in an epic fight of good vs. evil makes for a heightened reality to say the least. All kinds of fantasy and sci-fi movies take this liberty, SW is just one of them. You can either accept all of it, or none of it (in that case you should stop watching movies altogether, b/c they'd just cause frustration).
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	Yeah dude ten fucking feature films in we are now gonna have to start infering the events that take place between movies to better understand the actual movies when we never had to before
wham49 12.28.17	saw it in 3d today for second time, IDK it is fine the battle scenes are cool, could be much better
frozencarl 12.28.17	liked the movie even more on my second viewing
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.28.17	Um leia was low key using the force back when she saved luke in the original trilogy how do you even miss that
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	I didn't?
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	How is her making essentially a phone call through the force comparable to her doing... whatever that was in this movie?
Gmork89 12.28.17	I'd say they are comparable, transferring your voice directly into someones mind over a great distance could arguably be more powerful than just floating or moving objects.
hal1ax 12.28.17	yea.. they seem comparable to me
Valkoor952 12.28.17	Leia's scene while awful is something I can get past, but the crappy and lazy writing, the absolutely horrendous humor, and the whole action scenes created for the sake of comedy and flashy action instead of making actual sense in the overall story/plot is so retarded. Literally Marvel's Mightiest Jedis.
AlexKzillion 12.28.17	"transferring your voice directly into someones mind over a great distance could arguably be more powerful than just floating or moving objects." It always seemed to me that talking to people through the force or w/e was like the easiest thing for new force users to do but okay (like wasn't Rey doing that in TFA and this movie with relatively no training at all? And it's not like Luke was a Jedi master in Empire either. Or Kylo)... not to mention Leia and Luke are both extremely force sensative and are blood related so it's not really out of the realm of possibility... which is why literally nobody ever has said that that was farfetched
polyrhythm 12.29.17	Honestly I feel these movies are good films with bad moments, rather than bad films with good moments. Blows my mind that Disney knows what they're doing better than Lucas did, but there you are
sempiturtle 12.29.17	Actually Lucas's overarching narrative for the prequels was actually quite decent but the screenwriting and directing (which he never should've done in the first place) was shite.
polyrhythm 12.29.17	Agreed that the story had massive potential, but almost every aspect of those movies was executed poorly. Like an apple which is 80% bruised (and counting, those green screens get worse each day)
unclereich 12.29.17	Ive never seen such intense discussion for such a horrible movie
insomniac15 12.29.17	Meh, it's the worst of all the Star Wars movies.
Krvst 12.29.17	Films great, get over it ya nerds
Lord(e)Po)))ts 12.29.17	@alex disagreed.
DoofusWainwright 12.29.17	Big improvement on the first Disney one...not as good as Rogue One though. Mark Hamill stole the show here, although that Marilyn Manson kid won me over as a villain this time (didn't really get him in the first one). The Yoda/Skywalker scene/dialogue actually even gave the film some sort of emotional grounding/resonance. The preachy 'Casino World' segment and Leia's music video out in space shoot were the low points.
DoofusWainwright 12.29.17	Force Awakens = 5/10 Rogue One = 9/10 The Last Jedi = 7/10 (maybe more like 7.5/10)
Valkoor952 12.29.17	Rogue one was so bland and inoffensively boring, I almost fell asleep halfway through the movie.
unclereich 12.29.17	Rogue one = 9/10 (2)
Toondude10 12.29.17	Rogue One was definitely better than TFA, though I like both. I mean that Vader scene at the end is probably the best part out of any of the new Star Wars films.
DoofusWainwright 12.29.17	Rogue One was just a slightly toned down version of these other Disney movies and I liked that, seemed more jeopardy and less overly child-friendly/silly stuff. I mean I get why there's so much child-friendly/silly stuff in the other two films (this is Star Wars, it IS an (older?) kid's movie franchise) but I like that they put out a slightly (yes, just slightly) grittier SW movie. I liked Rogue anyway, my third favourite SW film out of the whole series...
DoofusWainwright 12.29.17	1. Star Wars [9/10] 2. Empire Strikes Back [9/10] 3. Rogue One [9/10] 4. Return of the Jedi [7/10] 5. The Last Jedi [7/10] 6. Force Awakens [5/10] 7. Revenge of the Sith [4/10] 8. Phantom Menace [3/10] 9. Clones [3/10] (barely)
Egarran 12.29.17	You are better than this, doof.
Rowan5215 12.29.17	Return of the Jedi is a 1/10. absolute fucking garbage
wwf 12.29.17	'Return of the Jedi is a 1/10. absolute fucking garbage' whoa seriously, how could you watch that movie and at least not think the Luke/ Emperor scenes are enough to warrant a higher score than that
Rowan5215 12.29.17	cos it all sucks. for those particular scenes: the dialogue is over-written and garbage, there's nothing close to nuance in what's supposed to be the big foreshadowed "Luke gets tempted" moment - it's literally just the Emperor going HUEHUE YEEES LUUKE UUUUUUUSE YOUR AAANGER while Mark Hamill tries and fails to act. Darth Vader shouting NOOOO is one of the worst things I've ever seen in any piece of cinema. the random appearance of Force electricity is fucking stupid and completely unnecessary - just have the Emperor force choke him ffs. nothing suggests Vader would ever turn on the Emperor at literally any point, other than like one line earlier in the film where Luke's like "oh yea he's conflicted" and no other setup is given. the cinematography sucks. the Ewoks suck. everything about that movie sucks
theBoneyKing 12.29.17	Saw the movie yesterday, loved it. 8/10. Definitely an improvement on TFA. Judging from what I've scanned itt people still don't know how to just enjoy things (or how to let other people just enjoy things, for that matter).
ExhaleTheLight 12.29.17	Eliminate the Rose and Finn subplot, you would've had a better movie.
insomniac15 12.29.17	"Eliminate the Rose and Finn subplot, you would've had a better movie." Exactly
Egarran 12.29.17	But the piercing social commentary would have been lost. Horse slaves = bad, child slaves = good.
insomniac15 12.29.17	Yeah, more merch for Disney - https://www.shopdisney.com/fathier-plush-star-wars-the-last-jedi-medium-1456576
MO 12.29.17	"no movie is worth this much of bitching and crying" this, calm down people holy fuck
TalonsOfFire 12.29.17	1. Empire Strikes Back [10/10] 2. Star Wars [9/10] = 3. Return of the Jedi [9/10] 4. The Last Jedi [8/10] 5. The Force Awakens [7.8/10] 6. Revenge of the Sith [6.5/10] 7. Clones [6/10] 8. Rogue One [5.5-6/10] 9. Phantom Menace [5/10] I haven't seen the prequels in many years, so my scores are probably higher than they would be if I re-watched. R1 is around that level of quality but I might need a re-watch
Toondude10 12.29.17	"no movie is worth this much of bitching and crying" you forget which fanbase you're talking about
frozencarl 12.29.17	STOP LIKING WHAT I DONT LIKE > : (
DoofusWainwright 12.29.17	'You are better than this, doof.' What I do now?
Egarran 12.29.17	"no movie is worth this much of bitching and crying" Show us your calculations. You seem to think these posts have value.
DoofusWainwright 12.29.17	'Rogue One' below 'Clones' is something I could NEVER get behind lol
Egarran 12.29.17	"What I do now?" Edit your post to reflect how sorry you are about all this.
DoofusWainwright 12.29.17	I literally don't know what opinion in particular has upset you the most ;P
TalonsOfFire 12.29.17	Rogue One is technically better made, but it's so dreary and boring at times that it's ultimately a little inferior. Clones has more entertainment value imo, even though the effects are dated now and the romance dialogue is cringe. I doubt any of the prequels would do much for me now, but they have nostalgia for me. If I watched them for the first time in the past 5-10 years, there's a good chance I'd think they sucked. One of the reasons I'm apprehensive about rewatching any of them.
Egarran 12.29.17	Doof, everything - including that one ^ where you said 'literally' like some annoying millennial.
BlackwaterPork 12.29.17	Salt... everywhere
Egarran 12.29.17	Yall thought it was snow just like Hoth but lemme tellya!
polyrhythm 12.29.17	Funny how Rogue One is regularly at the top or the bottom of people's lists
theBoneyKing 12.29.17	How come nobody's ranking the Clone Wars movie
BigBlob 12.29.17	jumping into this thread blind but the new star wars movie was fking shit. bye
Toondude10 12.29.17	"How come nobody's ranking the Clone Wars movie" that was a movie?
hal1ax 12.29.17	V > VI > IV > RO > VII = VIII > III > I > II
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	Loose ranking based purely off personal enjoyment: III > V > IV > VI > II > VII > I > VIII
Kalopsia 12.29.17	for as much as I dislike TLJ, it still ends up middle of the pack for just how bad the prequels are. this really is a strange franchise where half (OT, kinda but not really but almost TFA) are godly and the other half are nearly complete shit. 1. Empire Strikes Back 2. A New Hope 3. Return of the Jedi 4. The Force Awakens 5. The Last Jedi 6. Revenge of the Sith 7. Phantom Menace 8. Rogue One 9. Attack of the Clones
sempiturtle 12.29.17	V>R1>IV>VII>VI>III>VIII>II>I is my personal ranking probably.
DoofusWainwright 12.29.17	If you're actually being literal then you can use the word literally
Gmork89 12.29.17	1. A New Hope 2. Empire Strikes Back 3. Return of the Jedi 4. The Force Awakens 5. The Last Jedi 6. Revenge of the Sith 7.Rouge One 8. Attack of the Clones 9.Phantom Menace
Gmork89 12.29.17	Sometimes I feel like i REALLY dislike Rouge One as it has almost 0 personality or soul to it a lot of the time.
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	I have no personality or soul either so I can identify with R1 (and the prequels)
MO 12.29.17	gmork bro switch 1 and 2 and that is the perfect ranking
Gmork89 12.29.17	Ah man I struggle with that part of the ranking to be honest, A New Hope just brings those feelings of a huge adventure beginning that just gets me every time I watch it. It's really close between the two.
Valkoor952 12.29.17	1. Return of the jedi 2. Empire Strikes Back ( it was hard not placing this 1st but I love ROTJ) 3. A New Hope 4. Revenge of the sith 5. Rogue One 6. The Phantom Menace 7. The Force Awakens 8. Attack of the clones 9. The last jedi.
TalonsOfFire 12.29.17	"gmork bro switch 1 and 2 and that is the perfect ranking" That's my ranking haha
Valkoor952 12.29.17	"cos it all sucks. for those particular scenes: the dialogue is over-written and garbage, there's nothing close to nuance in what's supposed to be the big foreshadowed "Luke gets tempted" moment - it's literally just the Emperor going HUEHUE YEEES LUUKE UUUUUUUSE YOUR AAANGER while Mark Hamill tries and fails to act. Darth Vader shouting NOOOO is one of the worst things I've ever seen in any piece of cinema. the random appearance of Force electricity is fucking stupid and completely unnecessary - just have the Emperor force choke him ffs. nothing suggests Vader would ever turn on the Emperor at literally any point, other than like one line earlier in the film where Luke's like "oh yea he's conflicted" and no other setup is given. the cinematography sucks. the Ewoks suck. everything about that movie sucks" There was not one correct sentence in this entire paragraph.
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	Feeling an OG Battlefront 2 binge coming on
TalonsOfFire 12.29.17	I suppose the only other difference is that I have Clones above Rogue One. It could go either way tbh How could anyone criticize the lightning in TRotJ. If anything the prequels cheapened force lightning by basically establishing that you can get sith lightning by reaching sith power level 10 or something, whereas in the OT it was unique to the emperor.
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	I agree with like everything but the electricity thing and the Vader conflict thing... still really like ROTJ tho To be fair the NOOO wasn't in the first like five versions of rotj pretty sure (not on my copy at least)
Valkoor952 12.29.17	^ I'm not sure what you're talking about, aside from the emperor only Dooku had the lightning and he was a pretty powerful force user as yoda had said, so I don't see the big deal.
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	^agreed If anything the video games are what cheapened it
Valkoor952 12.29.17	"I agree with like everything but the electricity thing and the Vader conflict thing... still really like ROTJ tho " You agree that Mark Hamill couldn't act ? Or that Luke's temptation was poorly done,or that the writing was garbage, really ? I thought those parts were easily the best in the entire movie.
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	I thought it was generally agreed upon that the acting and writing in ROTJ was a step down from Empire and ANH... the scene with Luke and Leia on Endor is on par with "I don't like sand..." if were being honest... and then Han comes in like WHAT and Leia's like NOTHING and Han's like COME ON and Leia's like I JUST WANT TO BE ALONE And yeah I do... Luke never seemed tempted to the darkside like at all
TalonsOfFire 12.29.17	It's not really an issue itself when Dooku and Yoda fight with lightning, but each time it comes up in the prequels makes it less mysterious and special; The emperor was this interesting, menacing figure in the OT, and the lightning coming out of nowhere after his spiteful words to Luke really made for a powerful scene. You could think it was a unique power only for him, and wonder what else he can do.
Valkoor952 12.29.17	I think Hamill's performance was great tbh. It was in such a stark contrast than Luke in episode 5, like you can actually feel he got wiser, calmer and more powerful. Also, it wasn't an overlong temptation, it was a momentary thing where Vader mentioned Leia going to the dark side and Luke in a fit of rage went at him pretty hard, until he stopped.
TalonsOfFire 12.29.17	Valkoor is right. Everything with Vader, Luke, and the emperor in TRoftJ is amazing.
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	I can agree with that forsure... Hamill probably has the best performance of the whole movie other than that aformentioned scene Kinda like how the Luke/Kylo/Rey scenes are the best scenes in this movie
Kalopsia 12.29.17	"Luke never seemed tempted to the darkside like at all" lol what movie did you watch? cuz it definitely wasn't RotJ. Luke is using force choke, threatening to murder Jabba, him being all cocky and arrogant, and lets his anger take control while almost destroying Vader in the end. then luke realizing his temptation and what he could become by looking at his hand while Vader is defeated on the ground in front of him.
TalonsOfFire 12.29.17	"If anything the video games are what cheapened it" I suppose that's what I'm complaining about more than the prequels use of lightning. But in the end who cares about EU, and many of GL's ideas in the prequels can be tossed out the window now that this new trilogy exists. Nothing can take away from the greatness of the OT.
MrSirLordGentleman 12.29.17	No one's gonna talk about how interesting of a character Holdo was and how the kamikaze scene was probably the best one in the movie?
Valkoor952 12.29.17	Yeah the force choke is a nice little detail I had forgotten about
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	I guess it's just I've seen the movie so many times that I overlook some of that, plus yeah Luke does that stuff but he actually possesses self control unlike say Anakin in the prequels. But didn't Yoda do some kind of force choke thing in ROTS? I know it's inherently a "dark side power" but
Kalopsia 12.29.17	Nostalgia Critic review has ruined how I view Holdo (that she's a mother trying to keep her cool with a bastard little teenage kid)
BlackwaterPork 12.29.17	I know this has probably been said numerous times but I’m still pissed at what happened with snoke
MrSirLordGentleman 12.29.17	I honestly expected Holdo to last longer, I hoped for her to be a more important character in the next movie
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	Who is Holdo again? Can't match the name with a face right now lol Wait fuck that she was a bitch like the whole movie
MrSirLordGentleman 12.29.17	Purple hair lady
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	I found it really annoying how she wouldn't tell Poe the plan
MrSirLordGentleman 12.29.17	But if she let him probably everything would've gone to hell In the end, Holdo's sacrifice was way more helpful for the resistance than anything Poe did in the whole movie
Valkoor952 12.29.17	Hmm, I don't recall Yoda doing a force choke. There was one badass scene where he took out both of Palpatine's guards by pushing them against the wall but that was different
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	Yeah that's the one I meant, couldn't really remember how he actually did it tho... Just for the sake or argument... Mace Windu? Dude decapitated Jango and prob would have chopped up Sidious if it wasn't for Anakin... yet he was always an unquestioned Jedi through and through
Kalopsia 12.29.17	Side-note: but i fucking love the sound effect when someone uses force choke really all the sound effects (weapons, vehicles/ships, etc) are so iconic and just damn awesome
Valkoor952 12.29.17	I actually have read a lot about Windu and I remember that (there are 7 lightsabre styles btw) he had created and mastered his own lightsabre style, where the whole idea of this style is that it drains, sort of uses and channels his user's anger and inner darkness and thus is a very effective and probably the most powerful offensive style. Hence Windu being incredibly powerful in combat. Also it is S.Jackson, when has he ever NOT been angry ?
CygnusX1 12.29.17	Does anyone else think that Poe was terrible in TLJ? Like he really started a mutiny when the remaining resistance is running for their lives just because nobody would listen to him? Why does anyone think that's a good idea? I'm not sure if it was the terrible writing or what but I couldn't stand any scene he was in. Not to mention how much of a bad idea those salt-skiing ships were
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	Good point about the SLJ thing I don't think Poe (or Fin) are bad characters, in fact I like them quite a lot, but I feel like they've been wasting them somewhat (especially Poe). It feels like they're just kinda "there" in comparison to Rey and Kylo
Kalopsia 12.29.17	well as someone pointed out somewhere, the entire movie is about failure. CUZ DA MOVIE IS PRO-FEMINIST CUZ ONLY DA GURLS ARE SHOWN AS BEING RIGHT AND DA MEN R SHIT ON. #justkidding but really isn't there some truth to that? Poe is wrong (about there not being a plan) and is shown up by Leia and Holdo. Luke is wrong (about not re-joining the fight/giving up) and is shown up by Rey. Finn is wrong (about sacrificing himself, instead of saving love) and is shown up by Rose. Kylo is wrong (about being evil I guess?) and is shown up by Rey.
MrSirLordGentleman 12.29.17	"Finn is wrong (about sacrificing himself, instead of saving love) and is shown up by Rose." Except he wasn't. Fuck Rose. Terrible character (Finn isn't way better though)
Kalopsia 12.29.17	and Chewbacca is wrong (about eating Porgs) and shown up by what I can only assume are female Porgs. #againkidding
Valkoor952 12.29.17	Sad thing is it's not a joke Rey has literally never made 1 mistake and has been perfect at everything she has ever attempted.
TalonsOfFire 12.29.17	I think Rey is supposed to be a force of total goodness (tho she can be reckless, since Luke was disturbed by her allowing the mysterious darkness on their island into her mind), whereas Kylo Ren is so torn and chaotic. This is why he's the most interesting character. Snoke was basically totally evil, and KR killing him and attempting a new path with Rey was a really interesting move. It lead to him taking Snoke's place and being even more chaotically evil when Rey rejected him, which I suppose makes sense, so hopefully IX makes it worth it b/c KR teaming up with Rey to do something new could've been really interesting.
Kalopsia 12.29.17	"b/c KR teaming up with Rey to do something new could've been really interesting." yep, would've been really interesting to see them team up and have this uneasy balance where they're trying to meet in the middle but keep trying to fully pull the other to their respective light/dark side. but nope.
AlexKzillion 12.29.17	It's sad because I felt like they set it up really really well only for Rey to be like "lol don't do this"
ExhaleTheLight 12.29.17	Whatever character arcs Abrams established in GTA was halted by Johnson. Kylo is the only character whose development makes actual sense, I think this is his story and not Rey's.
ChoccyPhilly 12.29.17	Just watched it again. Dislike it even more, especially Rose. Wasted 12 quid.
TalonsOfFire 12.30.17	This makes me even more interested in IX for what Abrams will do with the story, since he returns after Johnson halted so much of what he set up.
hal1ax 12.30.17	little surprising to me how many ppl ranked R1 so low. i love that film.
Rowan5215 12.30.17	"There was not one correct sentence in this entire paragraph" lmao alright dude. enjoy your "let's do the climax of A New Hope again for two and a half hours with none of the thrill or freshness of the original" movie then
AlexKzillion 12.30.17	That describes TFA a lot more than it describes ROTJ
Papa Universe 12.30.17	I don't know if you remember correctly, but the original trilogy only had some vague lore and daddy issues.
polyrhythm 12.30.17	1) Empire Strikes Back... no more needs to be said. 10/10. 2) Return of the Jedi... admittedly very silly in parts, but I adore it all the same. You can't beat Vader's redemption and the ensuing intergalactic rave. 9/10. 3) A New Hope... a fantastic beginning to the adventure, though I can't say I'm crazy about the third act. Loses steam a bit after Obi Wan dies, and as a result my attention. 8.5/10. 4) The Last Jedi... flawed as heck, but stunning, fun and filled with classic moments. Soars whenever Rey, Luke or Kylo are onscreen. 8/10. 5) The Force Awakens... people think they are somehow insightful for pointing out parallels with A New Hope, which were obviously intended. A nostalgic palette-cleanser after the prequels, with just enough identity of its own. 7.5/10. 6) Rogue One... neither the best nor worst Star Wars movie. Had the central characters been developed a little better, the heroic sacrifice in the end would have had more weight, and carried this up a couple of spots. Bonus points for visual flair, and Vader's cameo as the angel of death. 7.5/10. 7) Revenge Of The Sith... the best of the worst. Though still tacky and poorly scripted, for half an hour this actually feels like a Star Wars film. Some great individual scenes. 5.5/10. 8) The Phantom Menace... Jar Jar, muh trade negotiations, and the droid vs gungan fight on the Windows 98 background are truly awful. Such long stretches of tedium. Redeemed somewhat by Darth Maul, some cool aesthetics on Naboo, and the podracing. 4.5/10. 9) Attack of the Clones... a joyless, deadening plod from one glossy CGI backdrop to the next. The romance scenes, backflipping Yoda, and everything to do with Geonosis hurt my soul. There is absolutely no fun, excitement, danger, revelation or emotion in this thing. It felt way too bombastic and loud when I first saw it, and I was seven years old. Seven. 2/10.
sempiturtle 12.30.17	Intergalactic rave is only on the special edition tho, doesn't count.
polyrhythm 12.30.17	Even without those added scenes of Naboo and Coruscant, the sense of triumph is amazing. Real old-fashioned good trumping evil, with the added bonus of redemption for the big bad. Can't help but choke up
Allergist 12.30.17	Saw it, what a shock! The movie was awful!
hal1ax 12.30.17	yea i've always been a massive RotJ fan. idgaf about the ewoks
hal1ax 12.30.17	i actually know quite a few people who dislike RotJ . ewoks are always one of their main complaints lol.
polyrhythm 12.30.17	... plot contrivances, Death Star 2, a boring first hour. All are valid complaints. I just don't care
Rowan5215 12.30.17	ewoks are comparatively one of the redeeming features of that overblown trash to be fair
hal1ax 12.30.17	man i love the first hour. i would feel compelled to physically attack anyone who complained about the first hour of rotj
polyrhythm 12.30.17	Maybe you could make an argument for the delayed gratification of Luke's dark arrival. Idk I think seeing Lando, Leia, Han and the droids in varying states of distress for 40 minutes, all while Jabba laughs like a perv, is a little patience-testing
hal1ax 12.30.17	haha yea i see your point. guess i never had a problem with the waiting.
polyrhythm 12.30.17	I think the fact our heroes are already at rock-bottom as of the end of ESB makes it seem a little gratuitous. Comparably, if at the beginning of episode IX, the dozen remaining Resistance members suffered a further setback, it'd be sort of ridiculous
AlexKzillion 12.30.17	Pretty much how I feel about this movie/new trilogy as of now: https://youtu.be/MeJf-MCXF-0?t=461
hal1ax 12.30.17	@ poly: hmm, do you think there's much disparity between the luke at the end of ESB and the luke at the beginning of RotJ? it always felt to me like there was appreciable variance there, and maybe it can be attributed to the protracted distress and suffering of luke's friends. perhaps he felt more incumbent to become as powerful and adept as he could as quickly as he could, because of their extended precarious position.
hal1ax 12.30.17	< 3
Valkoor952 12.30.17	Yeah, Jeremy Jahns and the guys from cinemasins pretty much have the right idea about this movie.
polyrhythm 12.30.17	Again, apply that level of nitpicking and criticism and you'll tear the OT apart, ROTJ especially. It's about forgiving little things for the sake of the bigger picture, and not letting a goofy scene or silly b-plot ruin the full experience. The OT is full of dumbass moments
Egarran 12.30.17	Especially with added CGI.
Valkoor952 12.30.17	Apply the level of forgiving shitty writing and nonsensical things in the first 2 prequels and you'll have really great movies.
polyrhythm 12.30.17	Not even remotely comparable. We're talking a pimple versus a brain tumour
anarchistfish 12.30.17	ctrl+f prequels 45 results
anarchistfish 12.30.17	actually that's not as impressive with the number of comments in this thread
zaruyache 12.30.17	prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel prequel
anarchistfish 12.30.17	"How you gonna let ewoks ruin the movie for you when the rest of it was so quality" what like that plan on tattoine that made no sense and took up the first 40 minutes of the movie?
Faraudo 12.31.17	"Not even remotely comparable. We're talking a pimple versus a brain tumour" Pretty stupid comparison, agreed.
AlexKzillion 12.31.17	"Again, apply that level of nitpicking and criticism and you'll tear the OT apart, ROTJ especially. It's about forgiving little things for the sake of the bigger picture, and not letting a goofy scene or silly b-plot ruin the full experience. The OT is full of dumbass moments" Not even remotely comparable. We're talking a pimple versus a brain tumour
ArsMoriendi 12.31.17	Saw it today. A lot of the plot points made no sense within in the Star Wars canon, but it was enjoyable somehow still Laura Dern rules anyway
polyrhythm 12.31.17	^ something I hope we can all agree on
Egarran 12.31.17	I thought she was miscast and her character was an annoying asshole. But then again I last saw her being an awesome asshole in Twin Peaks, which is so far above this movie they almost belong to different realities.
polyrhythm 12.31.17	Eh I love both, Peaks especially
Egarran 12.31.17	You're a good guy. Now, what the hell was up with those caretakers on Luke's island? They seemed shoehorned into the movie to get a cheap laugh.
zaruyache 12.31.17	Well duh. They were the ewok equivalents.
Toondude10 12.31.17	I thought that was supposed to be the Porgs
hal1ax 12.31.17	The milking and consuming of the green shit scene was .. odd, lol.
zaruyache 12.31.17	Ewoks were able to communicate their language with other lifeforms; porgs cannot, or did now show an equal capacity to. It's implied they have enough intelligence to mourn their dead and communicate a sense of loss, but i don't think that compares to the villagers or ewoks.
unclereich 12.31.17	Star wars is like that band you love thats still living off their impressive debut but hasnt done shit in 30 years and you just keep hoping they can somehow recreate that magic.
unclereich 12.31.17	Like nas
Egarran 01.01.18	Unlike the bands, I'm paying to consume Star Wars.
TheArtofTheGanja 01.01.18	don't care about laser wars
Egarran 01.01.18	It's for people who have no other means of escape.
TheArtofTheGanja 01.01.18	lsd is the best means of escape imo
Gmork89 01.02.18	I watched Rouge One for the third time over the weekend and for some reason it just clicked this time. I feel like its filmed in a way where most of the dialogue comes across in a very uneventful way and I couldn't even remember the majority of the move the first two times I watched it. This time I picked up on everything though and now I appreciate it a lot more
wwf 01.02.18	I'm still a little bit confused why so many people were really ambivalent about Rogue One; and I'm guessing it's almost all because the first act is really mediocre and doesn't flow well and doesn't set up the characters well But I think the last two acts are almost completely fantastic, some weird missteps aside
Kalopsia 01.02.18	"and I'm guessing it's almost all because the first act is really mediocre and doesn't flow well and doesn't set up the characters well" umm... there's your answer right there buddy. Rogue One was a story that didn't need to be told, but it was.. and in such a terrible way. i'd love to read the original storyboards/script cuz that first trailer looked a lot more interesting than what we got.
AlexKzillion 01.02.18	They had to do a fuck ton of re-shoots too apparently
Gmork89 01.02.18	That's interesting, nothing in my mind pointed to re-shoots, if anything it felt very cohesive and had decent pacing even if people found the overall story and characters felt boring. I feel like the buildup to that last battle was very well done.
Kalopsia 01.02.18	there was nothing clever about the story or the writing to R1. we know the end result - they get the plans. so you either need well-written characters or a well-written story. and we got neither. the first trailer made it seem like it would be this big heist movie, with going undercover, maybe turncoat-double agent style... but nope. they go from point A to point B and get the thing. then they get that thing from person A to person B. boring.
Gmork89 01.02.18	Yeah that's fair, I had the exact same opinion until I watched it again last weekend like I said, for some reason I enjoyed it throughout this time.
anarchistfish 01.02.18	the characters in R1 are so unbelievably dull
Kalopsia 01.02.18	Jyn is boring and we don't learn anything about her - her 'arc' doesn't make sense from what little we know about her. Blind not-Jedi guy has one cool action scene, but does nothing else after that, just walks to his death. Why? Gun Buddy has guns... okay, pointless. Pilot guy... gets raped by a cgi-squid..... wut Kinda hero guy - murders someone.. why? dunno. he's boring. Saw Gerrera just decides to give up... because... um... wut. It's sad when your most interesting character is a lifeless droid who quite literally is programmed to be the edgy-humor side-character
Gmork89 01.02.18	That's a little harsh but I don't have it in me to write a counter argument atm haha.
Toondude10 01.02.18	"Blind not-Jedi guy has one cool action scene, but does nothing else after that, just walks to his death. Why?" They were cornered and had to reach a power switch while being suppressed. No one else was going to do it so he volunteered.
Gyromania 01.03.18	think i prefer force tbh. last jedi was stuffed with a whole lotta nothing. really lacking an awesome lightsaber duel as well. the lightspeed crash was fucking epic tho
sempiturtle 01.03.18	Maybe I like Rogue One so much because I can't separate the film characters from the novel characters.
Kalopsia 01.03.18	"They were cornered and had to reach a power switch while being suppressed. No one else was going to do it so he volunteered." i'm not arguing that. i'm saying why show him having these amazing combat skills if he literally does nothing else the rest of the movie? why couldn't he have fought his way to that power switch? why did he walk? to show he's kinda maybe connected to the force but kinda not? who cares? he went out like a bitch for no reason.
TalonsOfFire 01.03.18	R1 wasn't a bad film but there were so many dumb moments and pretty much all of the characters were handled poorly or were boring/forgettable. Pretty much agreed with Kalopsia.
Gmork89 01.03.18	"to show he's kinda maybe connected to the force but kinda not?" I think that's exactly why, I thought it was a cool scene.
AlexKzillion 01.03.18	It had that one Vader scene tho Thought the Leia/Tarkin cgi was kinda creepy tho
TalonsOfFire 01.03.18	The Vader scenes were fine but fit in with much of the film feeling like fan service. It was cool to know why the death star had that flaw able to be destroyed in A New Hope, but this story was not one that really needed to be told. We knew what would happen, & the characters were pretty shallow & with hardly any development. There should've been 3 or 4, with time to get to know each one. Also the dumb parts and fan service stuck out b/c the rest was a gritty war movie. It was a Star Wars film version of Halo: Reach, except the soldiers there had more personalities and development, so their sacrifices felt like they had more weight.
Kalopsia 01.04.18	been seeing some articles (because clickbait of course) that Snoke isn't really dead and might have been projecting himself as Luke was, but just to a more convincing degree... don't know if I believe that, but could be cool if true. wishful bollocks imo.
AlexKzillion 01.04.18	Lmao please no
Kalopsia 01.04.18	BUT IF DERTH MAULZ CAN SURVIVE AFTUR BEING CUT IN HALF, SO CAN SNOKESNOKESNOKE
AlexKzillion 01.04.18	But Snoke was projecting himself so e didn't actuallly dei!!!
Faraudo 01.04.18	Hopefully Snoke is absolutely dead and gone, what an uninteresting character.
Kalopsia 01.04.18	they could have made him interesting if they put any effort into his character. but now he'll forever just be a discount Palpatine rehash.
Gmork89 01.04.18	Yeah if you think about it, Snoke didn't do a god damn thing in either movie. The more I think about some of the decisions in TLJ the more it seems ridiculous. Oh snoke is mysterious hes a big hologram, and then they just show him unceremoniously as a normal guy like the mystery of what he looked like in person never existed. I seriously don't know how in the hell a lot of that movie made it through quality control.
zaruyache 01.04.18	i don't know how they thought some guy with little in the way of a directorial filmography should get to helm one of the single biggest franchises ever in the first place. But they picked rian anyway, so idek
Gmork89 01.04.18	Hell we pretty much have that technology in our own universe, not impressed.
Gmork89 01.04.18	I read what you said wrong, I was just meaning that making yourself a hologram wouldn't really be impressive in the Star Wars universe unless you were hiding something significant, not just oh he's a normal sized guy. Like maybe he's a severed head or something kept alive by the force and hidden away on somewhere I don't know. I feel like there could have been a reveal there other than him just being normal sized, felt like a dropped element of TFA.
Gmork89 01.04.18	Yep I see what you mean for sure.
polyrhythm 01.05.18	Themes of failure and hubris. Not every mission ends with triumph and a medal ceremony. Some people die glorious deaths, others sudden and unceremonious ones. Some characters are important, others are total nobodies. You don't need to be a Palpatine, a Skywalker or a Kenobi to be force-sensitive or important to the story. Those that bear those surnames err as much as anyone else. These are ideas and themes new to the Star War universe. They are not sacrilege and vandalism, but expansion and deconstruction. Ten films in, we don't need another Chosen One. We need iconoclasm. Of course, these forays into new ground are going massively unappreciated by a fan base to whom additions to the Star Wars universe mean new starships, shapes of lightsaber and classes of droid.
Egarran 01.05.18	If they're so edgy now, why didn't those AT-ATs kill Finn and Rose after their stupid stunt?
Faraudo 01.05.18	"The milking and consuming of the green shit scene was .. odd, lol." It was great, Star Wars embraced it's weirdness again.
AlexKzillion 01.05.18	"Themes of failure and hubris. Not every mission ends with triumph and a medal ceremony. Some people die glorious deaths, others sudden and unceremonious ones. Some characters are important, others are total nobodies. You don't need to be a Palpatine, a Skywalker or a Kenobi to be force-sensitive or important to the story. Those that bear those surnames err as much as anyone else. These are ideas and themes new to the Star War universe. They are not sacrilege and vandalism, but expansion and deconstruction. Ten films in, we don't need another Chosen One. We need iconoclasm. Of course, these forays into new ground are going massively unappreciated by a fan base to whom additions to the Star Wars universe mean new starships, shapes of lightsaber and classes of droid." fucking lol literally none of that is new in star wars try again
AlexKzillion 01.05.18	Failure is a new concept in Star Wars? All they do in Empire is fail. The whole entire crux of the prequel trilogy is failure. Did like a million non-important characters not die throughout the prequels? There's never been an important character who wasn't part of the skywalker bloodline OR force sensitive?
polyrhythm 01.05.18	I probably should have written that as "you don't need to be a Skywalker to be the main character." These new movies break that mould and I think that's a good thing. Also, of course failure occurs in the other movies, Empire being an example, but I really don't think failure is a theme in any of the other films. TJL was all about characters experiencing or being haunted by failure, reckoning with it, and moving forward. It is present in just about every arc. It is a motivator, and a destroyer. In the other films, when the good guys fuck up, it doesn't form part of a larger thematic framework, it just sort of... happens. That's completely different.
Gmork89 01.05.18	I just didn't get any of that in a believable way to be honest, maybe that was their intention but really it just came across and anti-climactic and clumsy. I don't want to have to spend all of this time dissecting character motivations and "maybe it was because of this" type scenarios when I watch StarWars, especially considering that was never the case in any of the other films. I want to be entertained by an exciting Sci-Fi movie with memorable characters, unexpected reveals and some heart to it, and that's about it. I dont want to delve into Star Wars-ception levels of scrutiny just to make sense of shit that appears totally random and conflicting with every other film in the franchise as far as pacing, tone, and character development. I'm pretty sure like redlettermedia said, Rian Johnson just looked at what people expected concerning characters and plot, and picked some random shit nobody would expect and just threw it in there and most of it just felt awkward to me.
Gmork89 01.05.18	I enjoyed the movie to be honest but I feel like it could have been a lot better, and a lot of it felt pretty strange. I have no idea how in the hell they will wrap this up in a cohesive way with one more film, probably the one case where an Episode 9 part one and two might come in handy.
polyrhythm 01.06.18	This movie wanted to reach beyond "an exciting Sci-Fi movie" into meta and deconstructive territory, which it could have done better admittedly but I really admired that. Rather than slapping more planets, species and spaceships atop the Star Wars pile, it wanted to cut to the roots of what this universe is and means, what the Force actually represents, the what and the why of the whole thing. It would have been a more conventionally enjoyable and slick film if it hadn't bothered to do that, but then it would have just been another Star Wars movie. I prefer messy and ambitious to orderly and safe (Interstellar versus Gravity is a parallel that oddly springs to mind). As far as how Ep IX turns out and what the trilogy ends up looking like, your guess is as good as mine. I'll just hope for the best, and try enjoy it for what it is.
Gyromania 01.06.18	Snoke should have been developed more, he died in a pretty retarded way. And that lightsaber battle was pretty w.e. movie is honestly filled with so much useless shit
Faraudo 01.06.18	Shit, that Snoke fixation has gone too far. Why are you all longing for another Emperor like figure? At least they got rid of him quickly to adress more interesting characters/matters.
Toondude10 01.06.18	still though, it would've been nice to at least address how Snoke got to Kylo Ren, I think that needs to at least be established in Ep 9.
unclereich 01.06.18	Interesting characters is oxymoronic
Faraudo 01.06.18	That will probably be a thing in Ep IX, as we'll discover what happens (or happened) with the knights of Ren
unclereich 01.06.18	They were thrown off a cliff and died the end now back to the slow spaceship chase
Egarran 01.06.18	Note: The knights died on the way to their home planet.
unclereich 01.06.18	That planet being hoth but salt
AlexKzillion 01.06.18	I don't ever remember the Knights of Ren being mentioned in either movie. I guess you see them in Rey's vision in TFA for like a second but... I don't know for sure but I heard there's some Knights of Ren stuff in the Rebels tv show
zaruyache 01.06.18	Snoke mentions that Kylo is the head of the knights of ren, but otherwise there's only the rey vision that shows them.
ExhaleTheLight 01.09.18	I can't believe I didn't catch Finn hiding the Jedi texts when I saw it the first time.
BeyondCosby 01.09.18	Movie was garbage. Editing was atrocious, characters have no arc, literally exhausting to watch. The director destroyed characters trying to be an edge lord.
Toondude10 01.09.18	Impressive... Every word in that sentence was wrong :-)
AlexKzillion 01.09.18	Shit is so divisive lol
polyrhythm 01.09.18	Really is man, I've heard it called the best and worst Star Wars ever. Same thing with Rogue One. The'yre both in the middle of my ranking
Gmork89 01.09.18	I don't see how anyone could find it to be the best Star Wars, so much of it was awkward and pointless. I probably need to watch it again though.
TalonsOfFire 01.09.18	It's the best Star Wars not counting the OT (maybe tied with Force Awakens), though there isn't much competition after the OT. TLJ has some problems for sure, but so many people dislike it for the wrong reasons. The weakest parts of the movie are the spinning wheels with hardly anything changed or revealed by the end, and the awkward handling of the main story switching back-and-forth with the uneven B-story with Finn, with the low point being that casino planet. Despite those issues, it's an excellent film with some of the best scenes and most interesting character moments of the franchise.
Gmork89 01.09.18	My ranking has changed, I would put it above the prequels but still lower than Rouge One and TFA, the more I have thought about it the more I realize how much I disliked it.
TalonsOfFire 01.09.18	I understand putting it below The Force Awakens, which is a more consistent and traditional SW film. R1 is more at the bottom for me.
Gmork89 01.09.18	I used to have R1 really low but it grew on me the last time I watched it.
TalonsOfFire 01.09.18	I don't really want to watch it again, but maybe I will and see if it grows on me. It is on Netflix.
Gmork89 01.09.18	The characters are definitely flat and honestly a lot of the movie went by without even making an impression the first couple of times. I think I was more able to pay attention to the smaller parts the the third time and I actually appreciated the characters and acting, they're just really subdued compared to the more grandiose characters you usually get in StarWars.
BeyondCosby 01.09.18	"Every word in that sentence was wrong" One of the worst movie quotes ever conceived. Like... did the writers even think about what it meant?
CygnusX1 01.09.18	The writers don't have to think about it, they'll just slap "Star Wars" on any pile of crap and it'll make millions. But yeah, that sentence made me laugh in the theater. Horrible writing seems to be the overall theme of TLJ.
BeyondCosby 01.10.18	^ Every word in that sentence is right.
Deathconscious 04.16.19	only a quarter way through Solo, and wow. i knew it wasnt going to be great but i thought all the hate might be a little undeserved. i was wrong.
neekafat 04.16.19	This is way better than Solo
Kalopsia 04.16.19	that's not saying much
Kalopsia 04.16.19	also, check out The Fallen Knight fan edit. it's really professionally done, cuts this bloated mess down to 1hr30mins and really streamlines the movie. i'm honestly going to burn that edit to a dvd, and it will be my new 'normal' when watching this new trilogy
Tundra 04.16.19	I got no desire to watch Solo, give me a live-action film of The Clone Wars, please
TalonsOfFire 04.16.19	Solo gets better as it goes. Last third is really enjoyable I remember.
Deathconscious 04.16.19	I was so glad when that four armed guy and L3 died.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.16.19	I dont know what L3 is but u best not be talking about the homie grevious
TheSpirit 04.16.19	Solo was pretty good, but the most compelling scenes were the war scenes. Give me some actual in the trenches warfare with crazy planet backdrops and nutty technology, and i will eat it up. Clone Wars did a great job establishing the scale at which battles can be fought in the SW universe, but there's really been no platform or piece expounding on it. I wanna see 10,000 star destroyers battling 10,0000 Mon Cal cruisers right on the outskirts of a black hole or a star or some shit. GIve me an ACTUAL WAR.
Emim 04.16.19	God this movie was disappointing.
Source 04.16.19	Star Wars fans had no clue what was about to hit them when this thread was created
BeyondCosby 04.16.19	I wasn't really interested in finishing the series after watching The Force Awakens, but after Last Jedi.... man I have no interest in finishing the series. And when the Emperor laughed... man, could they be any more creatively bankrupt? I suppose Abrams is trying to salvage it but... come on. Don't tell me it was the Emperor this whole time. Please...
AlexKzillion 04.16.19	"Clone Wars did a great job establishing the scale at which battles can be fought in the SW universe, but there's really been no platform or piece expounding on it. I wanna see 10,000 star destroyers battling 10,0000 Mon Cal cruisers right on the outskirts of a black hole or a star or some shit." Honestly, the Clone Wars is probably peak star wars.
Deathconscious 04.16.19	The prequels are good.
dathvada321 04.16.19	This movie is ass.
JWT155 04.16.19	These newer movies are a classic example of the realistic flaws of writers. The direction they've taken in these films have just been terrible. They build up Snoke only to have him easilly killed in the 2nd installment. The writing has been predicatable and unineteresting, if they wanted an intriguing premise they should have had Rey naively join Kylo Ren to right the universe, or have kylo ren join the good side. I'm genuinelly uninterested in this final episode 9.
Wildcardbitchesss 04.16.19	Predictable? Are you kidding? Say what you want about the Last Jedi but its anything but predictable.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.16.19	There were certainly many predictable moments
BeyondCosby 04.16.19	I didn't mind the predictability so much as the the terrible writing. Why do they go to a casino planet? Like, why do they REALLY go? How come it takes them like 12 hrs to do this side mission and the rebels are still getting blown out of space Why didn't lady kamikaze earlier to save more people if that was her plan the whole time? What is Rey's arc? Why kill off Snoke? Why even have Snoke? How can Leia access the force when she has done zero training? Why can Rey access the force when she's done zero training? How does Luke die if he's just a projection?
Tyler. 04.16.19	really hated rogue 1, and really disliked the last jedi. i used to love star wars but im just so uninterested in this movie
Deathconscious 04.16.19	"How does Luke die if he's just a projection?" i thought it was pretty obvious that maintaining a projection from such a distance was what drained his strength and killed him. the rest of those questions are valid though.
Deathconscious 04.16.19	i was pissed that they didnt show Luke do any truly badass shit. what a fucking waste.
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.16.19	The projection battle was kinda cool though.
Deathconscious 04.16.19	it was alright, but he didnt fuck any shit up. he just had a fake short lightsaber battle as a projection and then, instead of buying the rebels the maximum amount of time to escape, he just sits there and allows Kylo to poke him with his saber and reveal that he's just a projection.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.16.19	So much wasted potential on that scene, I wanted to see Luke fucking wreck a bunch of at ats
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.16.19	Instead we got to watch phantom luke do the limbo
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.16.19	lmao
Deathconscious 04.16.19	oh shit, we're actually gonna be able to see Luke go all out, holy shit he's walking out there omg they tried blasting him to hell and he acted like it was nothing holy shit what a badass holy shit this makes up for everything this movie did wrong i dont even care right now, ok theyre gonna duel alright this is ok, i mean he's gonna defeat him for sure cause Kylo is a bitch and then he's gonna have to fuck up the rest of those guys- Luke's a fuckin projection and then he dies. i had to pause the movie there and facepalm because my entire being was tasked with being disappointed at this astoundingly stupid writing decision.
Source 04.16.19	definitely a wtf moment to end all wtf moments
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	a lot of mega-nerds hated it but i honestly kind of liked the premise of Luke becoming an embittered hermit who's disenchanted with the force. its just that rian did such a fucking terrible job of it.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	yo also if there isn't any pay-off with the knights of ren in the final ep ima be IRRITATED
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.17.19	"a lot of mega-nerds hated it but i honestly kind of liked the premise of Luke becoming an embittered hermit who's disenchanted with the force. its just that rian did such a fucking terrible job of it." I love the idea too because it's realistic. Not every hero is going to stay happy, go-lucky and optimistic their life. That scene with him drinking that creatures milk kinda killed the resonance of those scenes too.
Deathconscious 04.17.19	why didnt they have him die trying to take on a whole army to buy them time instead? wouldnt that have had the same outcome, just a whole lot more eye candy and badassery? i just cant get over this.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	@strike yeah, and especially with the story being that the one time his optimism faltered and he ~almost~ went out of character to perform beam-sword death-murder on yung ren to trope-block him from performing potential naughty future-deeds it cost him _everything_ who wouldn't be rattled in their faith? it's easy, solid, relatable, redemption arch material. how do you fuck that up?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	@adolf i guess they decided we'd rather watch an old man do yoga on a fucking cliff
zakalwe 04.17.19	What the fuck are you nerds prattling on about?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	fucking your dad
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.17.19	Disney probably had a few too many of their hands in the cookie jar with the decision making regarding that.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	honestly letting rian "shake things up" so catastrophically is probably the biggest creative liberty they, or marvel for that matter, has ever given a director, and thanks to his failure, it will probably be the last
zakalwe 04.17.19	don’t make me watch that again, his technique is useless.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	LOL
Tyler. 04.17.19	"honestly letting rian "shake things up" so catastrophically is probably the biggest creative liberty they, or marvel for that matter, has ever given a director, and thanks to his failure, it will probably be the last" yeah man thats what bothers me the most. they shouldve given the movie to someone other than the dude who dude looper lol
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	i mean i didnt mind looper but what the fuck is with this trend of huge studios handing the reigns to massive franchise instalments to random directors who like ~accidentally~ did ONE good thing. anyone could tell these fuckers how big a risk that is. and then they realize what the fuck they've done half-way through and step back in to try and ~save~ it and just fuck it up even worse.
Tyler. 04.17.19	i agree with everything u just said and do not have much more to add to the conversation at this moment
BeyondCosby 04.17.19	"i guess they decided we'd rather watch an old man do yoga on a fucking cliff" That got me. I think, overall, they needed to slow the movie down. Get them to the planet after the bomb raid, give Rey some time to actually LEARN THE FORCE, give time for Kylo to really stew in whether he wants to continue to be Snoke's bitch, and then bring them back together for the grand finale. Luke being a grumpy hermit is fucking perfect as a concept, but why have him force project? Why not have him actually show up and just be so in one with the force that he stalls the First Order, force destroys some AT-ATs, and then collapse because he'd an old man? Also, when Finn was lightsabered in the back they should have taken that time to make him an interesting character by giving him robot legs or something. Like, you gotta sell toys somehow right?
Deathconscious 04.17.19	paradoxically, i think if Hollywood stopped putting a stranglehold on the creative process in order to make some calculated attempt at making as much money as possible, they would make better movies and in turn they would make more money.
polyrhythm 04.17.19	With a bit of distance I'd say this movie was a 7/10. Plenty of shit I would have done differently, but nothing bad enough to warrant the backlash it got. Really one of the most hyperbolic meltdowns in pop culture history
BeyondCosby 04.17.19	This was the only movie I've ever watched that I received a headache from. So... no higher than a 5/10 for me
Faraudo 04.17.19	It's an 8/10 lol, Star Wars was getting incredibly stagnant.
zaruyache 04.17.19	"Really one of the most hyperbolic meltdowns in pop culture history" i mean it's literally a billion dollar franchise, so how is a giant meltdown actually unfitting in this sense? ;3
Meridiu5 04.17.19	i'd rather watch the view
Gmork89 04.17.19	They blew it big time with TLJ, I thought it was awful in pretty much every way other than the visuals. The story, tone, characters, all of it was a huge WTF.
Wildcardbitchesss 04.17.19	I disagree with literally everyone in this thead. Having Luke die by being overwhelmed by the first order would’ve been cliched as shit. His story arc was absolutely perfect, Kylo literally mentions that force projection is a fatal exercise. watching an old man do yoga off a cliff lol fuck off. Him disappearing while looking at the dual sunset was the perfect sendoff for a perfectly executed arc. Cut out all the shit with Canto Blight and TLJ is a 5/5 film
MyNameIsPencil 04.17.19	nerds
Wildcardbitchesss 04.17.19	NERDS
Deathconscious 04.17.19	"Having Luke die by being overwhelmed by the first order would’ve been cliched as shit" I really dont care. The movie was already stupid and its far from high art, just gimme some cool shit.
MyNameIsPencil 04.17.19	at least these movies are way more enjoyable than the prequels
Deathconscious 04.17.19	The prequels are way better.
Wildcardbitchesss 04.17.19	You’re smoking crack if you legitimately think that
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	Calm down
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	U can like your laser sword movie
unclereich 04.17.19	it's 2am and im ready to argue that the prequels are better
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.17.19	no
Egarran 04.17.19	"it was pretty obvious that maintaining a projection from such a distance was what drained his strength and killed him" I appreciate living in a world where such a sentence is possible.
BeyondCosby 04.17.19	"The prequels are way better." [2]
Egarran 04.17.19	The prequels brought us the Plinkett reviews and for that we should be eternally grateful. TLJ wasn't bad enough to matter in the same way.
polyrhythm 04.17.19	"The prequels are way better" No amount of nostalgia you have for those films and their associated Lego sets can make that true
WatchItExplode 04.17.19	Attack of the Clones is the best Star Wars Movie.
Gmork89 04.17.19	Prequels sucked, TLJ sucked, basically the original 3 and KOTOR are the best we will ever get from starwars and I really don't care that much about it anymore.
Source 04.17.19	The original 3 without the random cgi
Kalopsia 04.17.19	"yo also if there isn't any pay-off with the knights of ren in the final ep ima be IRRITATED " lol pay off to what? the one line of off-hand dialogue that snoke, another nothing character said?
Kalopsia 04.17.19	"Having Luke die by being overwhelmed by the first order would’ve been cliched as shit" at least that would have made some narrative sense and forward momentum to the 'no one is coming to help' plot... the legendary Luke Skywalker coming back to offer aid to the Resistance and word of his heroic sacrifice getting out around the galaxy would have been a much better "spark to light the fire" than what we got
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	There is flashback scenes with them as well as Luke mentioning them etc across both new films. Pay off to then even existing and looking cool instead of being disregarded like tlj
Gyromania 04.17.19	This movie is embarrassing to watch, not even slightly excited for the 3rd one now
twlight 04.17.19	i mean the real issue is they didn't even have a fucking overarching story idea planned out for the new trilogy. they just winged it. how the fuck do you handle the most beloved movie franchise of all time like that?
Deathconscious 04.17.19	"I will have killed the last Jedi!" That part made me laugh, Adam Driver sucks and Kylo is one of the worst villains ever.
Kalopsia 04.17.19	Adam Driver is a decent actor. And Kylo could have been a cool character if they did the whole "vader wannabe" angle correctly. not Driver's fault he has to play a half-baked character
BeyondCosby 04.17.19	^ I actually think Kylo is well done. Probably the best part of any of the new movies.
Deathconscious 04.17.19	Idk i havent seen Driver in anything else.
TalonsOfFire 04.17.19	Kylo Ren is one of the best parts of the new films. The bratty wannabe evil character that Anakin should've been in the prequels, instead of what we got. Force Awakens & Last Jedi have their problems, but they're still better than any of the prequel films (including R1 & Solo) imo
Source 04.17.19	MC Ren
osmark86 04.17.19	Still haven't seen it. Star Wars blows. Soz for the hot take, but seriously what is the appeal?
Nomos2 04.17.19	The appeal, much like if you're 14 and like Marvel movies, is that they're aimed straight at that target demo. They're just embarrassing bad. Can't refute the importance of the early ones and what they did for blockbuster films, but since 1999 onwards and especially with this new batch of films, they make me cringe and rely 100% on narrow callbacks to the same few species, the same few planets, the same few alliances, the same few spaceships. It's really boring and bizarre. A whole Galaxy and they can't get over lightsabers and jedi and boring shit like that. I feel sorry for grown adults who endlessly debate the lore and wait in line for this shit.
osmark86 04.17.19	Star Wars ep 14: I member
Faraudo 04.17.19	"Kylo Ren is one of the best parts of the new films. The bratty wannabe evil character that Anakin should've been in the prequels, instead of what we got. Force Awakens & Last Jedi have their problems, but they're still better than any of the prequel films (including R1 & Solo) imo" Basically, but Solo is a good, standalone adventure sci-fi film.
Deathconscious 04.17.19	Solo is the one SW movie that i actually thought sucked with hardly any redeeming factors.
AlexKzillion 04.17.19	I think you could easily make the argument that Solo ruins as much lore and spits in the face of "old star wars" just as much/maybe more than TLJ did. I do find Solo much more likable than TLJ though, which probably has to do with it coming out after TLJ.
Kalopsia 04.17.19	HEY GUYS OSMARK AND NOMOS ARE TOO KEWL FOR STAR WARS
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.17.19	prolly cus theyre turbo virgins
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.17.19	Solo is the worst of the entire lot of new ones by a large margin
DoofDoof 04.17.19	Pots agreed, classic example of movie producers failing to realise a character’s appeal is based entirely on the original actor’s performance. Chewie threatens to become the lead in Solo. ‘On paper’ Han is just ‘any cool rebel’, a cliche
Source 04.17.19	user Nomos2 calm down
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.17.19	yikers
JWT155 04.17.19	Solo really just came off as a parody of itself.
TalonsOfFire 04.17.19	At least Solo was more enjoyable than R1, the last third especially was good I remember. Still pretty middle-of-the-road a lot of the time tho.
AlexKzillion 04.17.19	Solo is like every problem fans have had with post-1999 star wars culminated into one full length film. Good looking but flimsy characters that the audience struggles to connect to and often loathes? Style over substance? Taking one throwaway sentence from the OT and making entire plot points out of them? Butchering characters from the OT? Plot twists? Lore-breaking? Humor that is too seeded in the real world? Virtue signaling/obvious left wing pandering? Explicit fan-service? It's all there.
Deathconscious 04.18.19	The humor in these movies is stupid as fuck and not fitting with Star Wars at all. Not only that but they can never turn it off, its like they think their audience cant handle a heavy scene without some shitty comic relief in the very next scene.
Greyvy 04.18.19	there's grown ass men itt that watch star wars lmaooooo
Greyvy 04.18.19	how you gonna be older than 16 and get excited about this shit is beyond me
Deathconscious 04.18.19	I bet youre one of those people who thinks quitting video games makes you mature but you still act like youre 16 in the aspects of your life that actually matter.
AlexKzillion 04.18.19	Imagine 5-ing Bonito Generation while also being above Star Wars
TalonsOfFire 04.18.19	The constant attempts at humor is definitely one of the main problems with TLJ, TFA, and Solo. Especially TLJ with how serious and dire the actual plotlines are. The b-story with Finn was also pretty pointless iirc
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	Greyvy needs sex like a small penis needs a big truck
zaruyache 04.18.19	"but people liked the humor in the avengers so they must like in in outer space too"
Wildcardbitchesss 04.18.19	“Virtue signaling/obvious left wing pandering?” lol there it is
AlexKzillion 04.18.19	Uh yeah it's pretty clearly right there in the movies? lol. Like you don't exactly need to be on a certain side of the aisle or be pro/con these new movies to believe that.
Deathconscious 04.18.19	yeah, it's pretty obvious.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	It's not like the movie fueled an onslaught of reviews and musings deeming it a feminist masterpiece or anything....
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	Oh wait it totes did
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	celebrities take a break from raping each other to make Hollywood feminist laser sword masterpiece
unclereich 04.18.19	Where the fucking fuck did greyvy come from havent seen him in years
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	he just reemerged from a neverland-esque timeline where kids exposed to star wars in the 70s never aged past 16
Deathconscious 04.18.19	i just bought my first tie. i'm an adult now!
Egarran 04.18.19	Can you say more about the political angle? The fascist Empire is clearly right wing - but is this a fair representation? And if the rebellion is left wing, they imply that lefties are actually also ok with mass murder as long as it's bad people dying - you know like people with an income - and historically this also seems correct. SW is showing us that both sides must be shunned and ep.9 will be about dismantling all this crap and everyone joining together to make a LOVESTAR to conquer the galaxy.
JayEnder 04.18.19	Hot take - Star Wars is and always has been lame
Egarran 04.18.19	Typical elitist left wing comment.
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.18.19	"Hot take - Star Wars is and always has been lame" no
kalkwiese 04.18.19	yes
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.18.19	no
StrikeOfTheBeast 04.18.19	It was lame from 1999 to 2005 though
kalkwiese 04.18.19	Jarjar Bings is their best character. period.
Egarran 04.18.19	JarJar is the key to all this.
AlexKzillion 04.18.19	@Egarran When I say that stuff I’m talking about the Canto Bight sequence that exists more so for Disney to tell us that animal cruelty and wealth inequality is big bad than it does to further the plot, L3 leaning super hard into being quite literally a social justice warrior who fights to end droid slavery and for equal rights (in a series where nobody has ever given a fuck about that stuff no less), Lando and L3’s affection for each other clearly being an allusion to all the unique sexualities and things you can identify as in 2019, and of course their absolute need to have strong female characters who do big things because feminism, and prob some other stuff that isn’t coming to mind at 9:30 AM, all in an effort to come off as progressive in a society that hails social progressivism above everything. These messages are great and all but they stick out like a sore thumb, like the multi-billion dollar corporation is bending over backwards to make sure that we know they are for these causes, even sacrificing quality to do so. EDIT: I don’t want to come off as “make mu star wars apolitical again”... just not a fan of Disney’s execution. The Clone Wars did similar things in a much more nuanced way that didn’t insult the intelligence of the audience.
Egarran 04.18.19	Welcome to Hollywood. Have you ever seen an Oscar ceremony? So calm down, also anyone who complains about SJWs are impotent/have low self-esteem.
AlexKzillion 04.18.19	I’m not doing anything of that nature. My use of “social justice warrior” was to describe L3 in the most literal sense I could, and how Disney kind of gave L3 all the most stereotypical “sjw” tropes possible for whatever reason. I wasn’t using it as an insult or “complaining” about them at all.
Egarran 04.18.19	Are perchance a white male?
AlexKzillion 04.18.19	Lol what the fuck is this? Was unaware that criticising Disney’s pandering makes me some Trumpian right winger. As stated before, its not as if there hasn’t been similar political commentary in Star Wars before, as the Clone Wars definitely had it, and even the prequels did with Lucas’s whole “Palpatine is Bush” thing. They just did it in a better and more authentic way than Disney.
Kalopsia 04.18.19	i blame kathleen kennedy for everything
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	Shut up egaran
Kalopsia 04.18.19	"that stuff I’m talking about the Canto Bight sequence that exists more so for Disney to tell us that animal cruelty and wealth inequality is big bad than it does to further the plot, L3 leaning super hard into being quite literally a social justice warrior who fights to end droid slavery and for equal rights (in a series where nobody has ever given a fuck about that stuff no less), Lando and L3’s affection for each other clearly being an allusion to all the unique sexualities and things you can identify as in 2019, and of course their absolute need to have strong female characters who do big things because feminism […] all in an effort to come off as progressive in a society that hails social progressivism above everything. These messages are great and all " all things that don't belong in a star wars movie, a fun sci-fi action adventure story. not that you can't have these sort of messages, but when it's so poorly handled and blatant, it really detracts from the film.
Source 04.18.19	Jarjar Bings
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	L3 was the worst droid ever ya
Deathconscious 04.18.19	The relief i felt when they killed her off is indescribable.
Egarran 04.18.19	"Lol what the fuck is this?" Your lack of humor. Can you take a joke about identity politics or does it jerk your little snowflake knees? That was also a joke. I thought you knew I was on your side.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	lets get back on topic jar jar binks rules
Egarran 04.18.19	You like the theory where he is the master sith pulling all the strings?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	its pretty fucking hilarious
Egarran 04.18.19	Did you know he's a racist rastafari stereotype?
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	plot twist: the laugh at the end of the new teaser isn't darth sidious, its darth bing bings
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	all the aliens in star wars are racist stereotypes bruh
Egarran 04.18.19	omg that would be amazing Yeah those evil asians in Phantom Menace.
Lord(e)Po)))ts 04.18.19	just imagine those menacing jar jar snail eyes looming from the shadowy depths of a sith cloak
Deathconscious 04.18.19	I would for real be ok with that, if they changed his voice as if that was an act as well.
Kalopsia 04.18.19	NOW YOOSA MY HUMBLE SERVANT
Source 04.18.19	https://youtu.be/GgoC9ocahYM
polyrhythm 04.20.19	Can’t wait for three trilogies to culminate in an ultimate showdown with Darth Darth Binks