dathvada321: Tom Brady Vs. Joe Montana

dathvada321 01.15.13	list is some digs
MikeC26 01.15.13	Brady for sure. The records speak for themselves.
Trebor. 01.15.13	Joe Montana /thread
WeepingBanana 01.15.13	Brady is a better athlete obviously
Trebor. 01.15.13	If Brady does win another (Please dear god no) then yeah there's an argument there
WeepingBanana 01.15.13	If Joe Montana in his prime played in today's NFL he wouldn't even be that good. Tom Brady, and I say that and I hate the guy.
dathvada321 01.15.13	"If Brady does win another (Please dear god no) then yeah there's an argument there" i think he is the undisputed best if he wins another. 4-2 is better than 4-0 in superbowls. plus he has a better overall playoff record, more td passes, more passing yards, etc. plus he plays in an era where it is harder to dominate because of salary caps, free agency, etc.
Satellite 01.15.13	brady because go blue
evilford 01.15.13	Joe Montana /thread [2]
evilford 01.15.13	fuk tom brady
WeepingBanana 01.15.13	in the past 11 years the patriots finished first in their division 9 times. the other two, placing in 2nd from a tiebreaker cmon guys...
darkthrone1 01.15.13	fuk tom brady [2]
dathvada321 01.15.13	@everyone picking montana care to explain why? i agree, but i think Brady is VERY close to passing him.
WeepingBanana 01.15.13	fuckin idiots in this thread can't keep their emotions separate from the facts
dathvada321 01.15.13	plus the guy isnt even done yet he could win 1 or even 2 more superbowls (i hope not though lol im tired of seeing the pats in the superbowl)
evilford 01.15.13	facts don't answer this question, facts just support our subjective answers to this question
Calc 01.15.13	since i was old enough to actually see tom brady play so well over such a long time while only reading/hearing about montana's ima say brady
evilford 01.15.13	Joe has 4 rings, Brady has 3, and Joe has more (imo) clutch moments in big games. plus, I love how the Patriots were favored in probably the majority of games they played from 2002-2010 (somewhere in there) and maybe even up until now, and yet they claim that no one respects them or thinks they can win. I guess if they want to convince themselves that they're the underdogs so they have a reason to have a chip on their shoulder, that's fine I guess, they just looked like idiots claiming that no one thought they would win the superbowl (the two most recent ones) when I'm pretty sure they were favorites before and throughout the entire season and playoffs
evilford 01.15.13	I know that has nothing to do with the question at hand. but damn the patriots are lame
Calc 01.15.13	i care not for the patriots but i appreciate exemplary players regardless of the team they are on.
dathvada321 01.15.13	the pats have been to the superbowl 5 out of 10 times in the past 10 years. brady has the highest winning percentage ever for any qb, and the best playoff record. hes had to play against tough teams as well, having to play at least the 8th toughest schedule in the league 7 times out of 11.
WeepingBanana 01.15.13	"yet they claim that no one respects them or thinks they can win." i'd say that more of a reaction to all the hate they get from common nfl fans, myself included
henryChinaski 01.15.13	Football sucks.
evilford 01.15.13	@ weeping, oh, lol I thought that was the cause of the hate
dathvada321 01.15.13	for the record i dont like the patriots either, but i accept greatness when i see it
evilford 01.15.13	yeah I accept greatness when I see it too, I consider Tom Brady to be the 2nd best QB ever behind Montana
dathvada321 01.15.13	@evilford agreed. i think he will earn the top spot if he wins one more though
WeepingBanana 01.15.13	"@ weeping, oh, lol I thought that was the cause of the hate" probably some sort of vicious cycle
nononsense 01.15.13	1. Joe Montana 2. Tom Brady 3. Johnny Unitas 4. John Elway 5. Dan Marino
Trebor. 01.15.13	OK Tom Brady is great, but he's in the era of great QBs, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Rodgers are not that far removed from him talent wise, this is the quarterback era Montana was THE quarterback when he was in his prime
dathvada321 01.15.13	"OK Tom Brady is great, but he's in the era of great QBs, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Rodgers are not that far removed from him talent wise, this is the quarterback era Montana was THE quarterback when he was in his prime" true, but brady has been the most successful in the playoffs out of all of those. by far. the nfl is about winning championships. and the fact that he can still dominate no matter how much talent he has around him is amazing. he has had to play under three different types of offenses but he was amazing in every one. when the pats had a good d he was a game manager, when they had randy moss for the deep threat he was a big play qb, and now he thrown the dump off passes to the slot recievers and tight ends. he can do it all.
evilford 01.15.13	I saw him play in all of his super bowls
nononsense 01.15.13	He also benefits of a terrific offensive line.
evilford 01.15.13	on reruns of course
WeepingBanana 01.15.13	"OK Tom Brady is great, but he's in the era of great QBs, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Rodgers are not that far removed from him talent wise, this is the quarterback era Montana was THE quarterback when he was in his prime" Wouldn't being in a league with tougher QBs make his job harder...
Trebor. 01.15.13	Brady has the luxury of being on the team that's best at drafting players and always having elite players all around him, he doesn't win all the games by himself If Manning were on the Pats instead he would probably have just as many championships
Curse. 01.15.13	Montana was lucky enough to have the greatest receiver ever though
Trebor. 01.15.13	I don't know guys, losing twice to Eli Manning kind of tarnishes your legacy a lot
WeepingBanana 01.15.13	He didn't lose to Eli Manning, he lost to the Giants who were, at the time, the only team with a good enough D line to overcome their O line I say this as a Giants fan.
nononsense 01.15.13	Peyton chokes in the playoffs. Not just this year.
Trebor. 01.15.13	It seems like winning a superbowl comes down to the head coach more than the quarterback John Fox is obviously the kind of coach that will probably never win a super bowl The Harboughs seem like the kind of guys who can get it down Mike Smith doesn't seem like a super bowl winner to me either
toxin. 01.15.13	yea I remember when Peyton choked against the Chargers aka the kings of choking so that makes him chokier than the Chargers which is lol
Storm In A Teacup 01.15.13	Yeah Eli is elite imo fo sho. If the Ravens beat the Pats AND Flacco plays good (no tos) and he plays good in the Superbowl and if it is a close game against the 49ers I will consider Flacco elite too.
dathvada321 01.15.13	"If Manning were on the Pats instead he would probably have just as many championships" manning chokes consistently in the playoffs
Trebor. 01.15.13	dude I'm telling you, it's all about the coach Manning won under Dungy, but lost under that dude that's like the liquid snake version of Dungy
dathvada321 01.15.13	"I don't know guys, losing twice to Eli Manning kind of tarnishes your legacy a lot" idk man, eli is pretty great.
dathvada321 01.15.13	"Manning won under Dungy, but lost under that dude that's like the liquid snake version of Dungy" true but manning played poorly in the post season in which he won (4 tds to 7 ints) he has 29 tds to 19 ints in the playoffs, which is not very good
evilford 01.15.13	but wait liquid was the superior one....
Trebor. 01.15.13	Nah Liquid had all the recessive traits, and Snake kicked his ass dude
evilford 01.15.13	yeah solid snake won cuz he was more of a badass. but technically, if you listen to the short after the credits, ocelot reveals that liquid was actually the superior one cuz he was apparently privy to the details of the les enfants terribles project. this is all pretty well documented too
Trebor. 01.15.13	Superior on paper maybe, but he didn't have the heart, just like the Dungy clone dude
kingsoby1 01.15.13	the pats coaching staff is unparalleled in the NFL
Curse. 01.15.13	"dude I'm telling you, it's all about the coach Manning won under Dungy, but lost under that dude that's like the liquid snake version of Dungy" yeah but Dungy couldn't get it done in TB and Grud did the very next year
evilford 01.15.13	you make it sound like everyone thought tony dungy was a wimp who couldn't win and jim caldwell was going to save the franchise
Trebor. 01.15.13	"yeah but Dungy couldn't get it done in TB and Grud did the very next year" Gruden won with Dungy's team though
Curse. 01.15.13	Yeah but Dungy couldn't win with Dungy's team
Trebor. 01.15.13	Well he did win eventually
Curse. 01.15.13	I'm not arguing the it's all about the coach part, more the Dungy is a great coach part
ChopSuey 01.15.13	G-ayest O-of A-ll T-ime
Trebor. 01.15.13	I'll say it's about a great coach/quarterback tandem them Except for when Baltimore and TB won and it was all about coach plus defense
dathvada321 01.15.13	"I'll say it's about a great coach/quarterback tandem them" yeah most great qbs had great coaches when they won superbowls
evilford 01.15.13	name a bad coach that won a super bowl
Trebor. 01.15.13	did you know a Harbough has never missed the playoffs as a head coach? Jim is going to back to back NFC title games his first two years holy fuck
dathvada321 01.15.13	"name a bad coach that won a super bowl" i cant think of any lol. i just said most because i dont know about every single team whos has won a superbowl's coach.
dathvada321 01.15.13	@trebor yeah dude the harbaughs are fantastic coaches
Trebor. 01.15.13	That pretty much helps my coach point cuz bad/average quarterbacks have won bowls but not really bad/average coaches
Satellite 01.15.13	i saw montana play for the chiefs in his later yrs
Curse. 01.15.13	Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl as an average coach, but those were very special circumstances, because he inherited Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys. I also wouldn't call Brian Billick a great coach
dathvada321 01.15.13	it takes a great coach to win a superbowl because the superbowl isnt all about the qb. your team needs to be disciplined in every area in order to get through the playoffs, and a lot of that has to do with coaching. any time you see a team with heaps of talent under perform, it is usually because of a poor coach.
dathvada321 01.15.13	on the flip side, it is hard to get a team to the super bowl without an elite qb because of how much a qb does for an offense. it is almost impossible to have a great offense without a great quarterback.
AngelofDeath 01.15.13	Falcons are gonna go to the Superdome and curb-stomp Tom Brady. There. I said it.
dathvada321 01.15.13	@angel lol i wouldnt even put my money on them getting past the niners
Curse. 01.15.13	"on the flip side, it is hard to get a team to the super bowl without an elite qb because of how much a qb does for an offense. it is almost impossible to have a good offense without a great quarterback." that is more of a thing in the past ten years, I mean, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are Super Bowl winning quarterbacks. You can't do it now with the rise of unbelievably talented quarterbacks, but you could certainly do it in the past
dathvada321 01.15.13	"that is more of a thing in the past ten years, I mean, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are Super Bowl winning quarterbacks. You can't do it now with the rise of unbelievably talented quarterbacks, but you could certainly do it in the past" i said it was hard, but not impossible. in order to do it, you have to have an elite defense and a heavily run oriented offense with a great back
Trebor. 01.15.13	None of the quarterbacks in it right now are slouches at all But I just don't see Mike Smith winning a superbowl, I could see the other guys doing it though easily
AngelofDeath 01.15.13	"@angel lol i wouldnt even put my money on them getting past the niners" Definitely going to be an uphill battle, but I have faith. Plus, I just don't like Kaepernick for some reason. Maybe because he looks like he should be in an R&B supergroup.
klap 01.15.13	tom brady has one less pick in playoff games then manning does
AngelofDeath 01.15.13	"But I just don't see Mike Smith winning a superbowl, I could see the other guys doing it though easily" But Dirk Koetter and Mike Nolan, man...
Trebor. 01.15.13	I'm rooting hard for the Falcons hard man, but I just don't see it Falcons/Ravens bowl would be nice cuz the Pats and Niners don't need any more rings
Curse. 01.15.13	"Plus, I just don't like Kaepernick for some reason. Maybe because he looks like he should be in an R&B supergroup." Or it could be because he is an arrogant dickhead. I would love to see an Atlanta-Baltimore SB. Two surefire HOFers fighting each other over the middle of the field on the biggest stage in their last games
Trebor. 01.15.13	I kind of hate Ray Lewis for his religious bullshit Like God gives a fuck whether you win a football game, it's not there are people out there with real problems he could be helping I always thought praying to win a football game or something like that is really fucked up
klap 01.15.13	yeah praying is srs business
Trebor. 01.15.13	God cares more about my team than the other team
AngelofDeath 01.15.13	Yeah, who deserves a ring more than Tony Gonzalez?
Curse. 01.15.13	They can pray all they want, personally I would like to see more athletes pray to Jo-Bu
Trebor. 01.15.13	Dan Marino
kingsoby1 01.15.13	name a bad coach that won: gruden and the weasel looking guy from the giants
kingsoby1 01.15.13	coughlin
SowingSeason 01.15.13	I despise Tom Brady's arrogance, but I respect him. I think if you get down to each player's physical tools and mental capabilities, Brady is better. He is also better statistically speaking (I believe, I didn't look anything up) than Montana. Montana was the best of his generation and the greatest in history up until that point, but as the game evolves players become better. If Brady gets a fourth ring (and that will be 6 superbowl appearances), I don't think you can make an argument for Montana anymore. Even as it stands now though, I'd pick Brady.
savagecabbage 01.15.13	montana
dathvada321 01.15.13	the more i look at brady's accomplishments, the more i think he is going to surpass Montana. hes just a hair worse now
PayneTiger777 01.15.13	Montana is undefeated in the superbowl. He also led one of the greatest superbowl drives of all time against the Bengals. Nowadays we have a pass happy league in which anyone can pass over 4,000 yards a season. Montana played in the days in which defenses were considered unstoppable, and I believe that today there aren't many defenses like that anymore. I'd like to see Brady go up against the great LT or Reggie White and survive.
dathvada321 01.15.13	"Montana is undefeated in the superbowl. He also led one of the greatest superbowl drives of all time against the Bengals." i would rather win 4 super bowls and lose two than just win four. "Nowadays we have a pass happy league in which anyone can pass over 4,000 yards a season. Montana played in the days in which defenses were considered unstoppable, and I believe that today there aren't many defenses like that anymore. I'd like to see Brady go up against the great LT or Reggie White and survive." true, but brady is playing in an era with salary cap and free agency, which makes teams more even than they were back then, plus players are more talented nowadays. it is far harder for a team to dominate nowadays then it was back then. the pats are the only dynasty of this century, and other teams arent close. its hard to make that argument because we have no idea how brady would do in that era and vice versa.
jrm96 01.15.13	Brady, and if he wins another ring theres no doubt about it
Storm In A Teacup 01.15.13	Tebow could play QB for the 49ers if they didn't have Alex or Colin. :)
GnarlyShillelagh 01.15.13	what an awful post tebow could play for anyone if they didn't have ___ or ___ duh
DominionMM1 01.15.13	ray lewis better than lawrence taylor? lolololol