EyeForAnEye: France Knows How To Pick A President

AGuyIsWatchingYou 05.06.12	American politicians, are you even trying?
eternium 05.06.12	We are but the Christians are holding us back.
LifeAsAChipmunk 05.06.12	I think you mean them Republicans.
EyeForAnEye 05.06.12	Republicans used to be cool. Look at Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt all around badasses. And even though John Mccain sucks, he got beat up for eight years in a Vietnamese prison.
AGuyIsWatchingYou 05.06.12	Republican is the way to go. You know what they say, if it aint on the verge of absolute breakdown and chaos, don't fix it. Who needs advancement anyway?
AGuyIsWatchingYou 05.06.12	Who am I kidding I don't know shit about politics.
Trebor. 05.06.12	Well then he shouldn't have gone to Vietnam That was his own fault
Eclecticist 05.06.12	I am really interested in seeing what Hollande ends up doing during his presidency, But I am even more interested in seeing what the fuck happens to Greece. I thought that they all just kind of killed themselves in those riots but I am still getting twitter updates about how each of their 300 MP's are all fucking the country up hard.
EyeForAnEye 05.06.12	They should just nuke Greece.
Eclecticist 05.06.12	They did one even better by proposing that they leave the European Union and find themselves a new form of currency that they can fuck themselves up with instead of the euro.
EyeForAnEye 05.06.12	Seriously, fuck Greece.
wabbit 05.06.12	Greece is so dumb. I know this 75 year old greek lady who left greece when she was like 7 and she gets $300 a month from the government cause she's old
Eclecticist 05.06.12	Yea they are pretty fucked but I would say that there are countries that are even worse off right now, like... Kazbekistan Mali North Korea Mexico Syria Spain
EyeForAnEye 05.06.12	Mexico would be fine if they stopped the drug war.
Eclecticist 05.06.12	South American leaders met back in March to discuss legalizing all drugs to end the war. It's coming, don't worry. Although, Central America may be fucked because they are heavily influenced by North America and both Stephen Harper and Obama have firmly said "no" to the issue.
eternium 05.06.12	South American countries legalizing drugs would help a lot but it's still based mostly on U.S. demand. People are slowly realizing that prohibition only makes matters worse.
Eclecticist 05.06.12	Well it would be nice to have certain drugs off of the market... like crystal meth... but drugs like Opiates and Cocaine have been around for hundreds of years so I don't understand why over the past century people have been so obsessed about eliminating them? They say that most of the Pharaohs of Egypt enjoyed the luxury of cocaine and opiates were a common painkiller for a very long time.
Grimlin 05.07.12	in addition to the money made from the drug "war", medicinal benefits of a lot of natural drugs are a big reason why a lot of it is illegal. there's too much money in the pharmaceutical business.
Grimlin 05.07.12	and really, you shouldn't have to be told not to do crystal meth. if it were legal tomorrow, would you do it? we can let the idiots weed themselves out, but i'd like to be able to choose for myself whether or not i do it, and not have someone decide for me.
Eclecticist 05.07.12	lol I could break into a 6 hour lecture about the pharmaceutics industry. In psychology one of the biggest problems is the pressure to make money by signing to different psychopharmaceutical companies that will give several hundred grand just for you okaying their product.
Dashy 05.07.12	All 5 of these are good reasons and all 5 will never happen in the US. 1 would most likely be proclaimed a "satanist uprising" or some shit and shot down immediately. 2 isn't too much of a problem here so no one would care. In 3 at least one crazy ass politician would say they are giving jobs to non-americans or some crazy shit. 4 can't happen because of the religious. 5 can't happen because we need oil and they need "freedom." I'm glad France can actually elect a president that sounds good. Hopefully the US will get a good president some day.
eternium 05.07.12	"2 isn't too much of a problem here so no one would care." You haven't been paying attention much to the news, have you? War on women?
Trebor. 05.07.12	We like to pretend we are more civilized than those druggies back in the day
Dashy 05.07.12	This, for the most part, discredits the whole "war on women" thing. http://www.factcheck.org/2012/04/obamas-war-on-women/
Deviant. 05.07.12	"Greece is so dumb. I know this 75 year old greek lady who left greece when she was like 7 and she gets $300 a month from the government cause she's old " How does this make an entire country, or even one elderly lady, dumb?
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Oh boy. I see we're having a severe case of specialists right here.
Satellite 05.07.12	knowing how to surrender properly is chief among virtues for french presidents
eternium 05.07.12	Obama is waging a war on women, the GOP is... Restricting abortion access, proposing that women seeking abortions must have an instrument stuck up their happy places as a means of a sonogram (almost passed but failed after media coverage), etc. What Romney said was bullshit. http://pol.moveon.org/waronwomen/
eternium 05.07.12	*Obama isn't Can't edit or else it'll fuck up the spacing.
bakkermaarten007 05.07.12	No they don't . They voted for a socialist, in times of crisis that's the last thing they should do. They voted in a state of fear, fear of losing their pioneering role in Europe, fear of seeing their incomes reduce. So they though " Hey, why not vote for socialism, after all socialists ARE the givers right?" "But the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." --Margaret Thatcher
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	"They voted in a state of fear, fear of losing their pioneering role in Europe, fear of seeing their incomes reduce" True, the rest reads more like a generalized dogmatic (ancient Greece style) hyperbole.
Tyrael 05.07.12	'Supports Women's equality' I'm sorry but why is this even an argument?
bakkermaarten007 05.07.12	And also: -"Supports a secularized system of Government" -"Supports Women's equality" -"Supports Gay Rights" The whole European Union does that.... (maybe except for gay rights, not 100% sure there) and that was already the case before he made it president. Do you try to sound smart? And this one: "The creation of over 60,000 Teaching jobs" Welcome to politics, been having a hard time to remember a politician in an election campaign not saying that cliché...
bakkermaarten007 05.07.12	No, I like them females.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Because people are idiots and "equality" 'sounds good'. Already the Nazis used that for the "Gleichschaltung".
Keyblade 05.07.12	"'Supports Women's equality' I'm sorry but why is this even an argument?" lol exactly what I thought
bakkermaarten007 05.07.12	"Because people are idiots and "equality" 'sounds good'. Already the Nazis used that for the "Gleichschaltung"." [2]
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Officially the EU does. What that implies socially should be rather obvious.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	yeah, great president. let's continue spend a shitload of money we don't have and then stuff more into state bureaucracy. short term, his plans are good. long term, france is fucked. I think most decent country leaders already have 1 2 4 and 5. Besides, the vote for Hollande was more a vote against Sarkozy than anything else
Tyrael 05.07.12	But in all seriousness I don't think anything is gonna change under Hollande I remember him saying to the press in the UK that he's 'just as left as Obama'
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Well, duh. If everytime someone new was elected things would start changing the face of politics would change quite often. Shouldn't be big news that most of the "promises" are more program than anything else.
Tyrael 05.07.12	I'm actually more worried about greece, if you look at how crazy the political landscape has become after yesterday's elections
anarchistfish 05.07.12	Greece was fucked even before the elections. The elections just reinforced it
anarchistfish 05.07.12	hang on just seen this "knowing how to surrender properly is chief among virtues for french presidents" fuck you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_France first paragraph bitch bambam "But the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." lol this is just dumb
scissorlocked 05.07.12	"I'm actually more worried about greece, if you look at how crazy the political landscape has become after yesterday's elections" yeah, it's like a circus here nowadays! Probably we'll go to new elections in about a month - there's no party with rate higher than 20%, and the two major ones ( right wingers and pseudo-socialists) have been literally crashed down but maybe the most annoying thing is the rise of the neonazi party to 8% things are gonna be hot here
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Greece seems to be one of the favorite topics for "outsiders" that don't actually have any idea of what's happening there.
Voivod 05.07.12	France Knows How To Pick A President We will see about that in the near future...
MO 05.07.12	"And even though John Mccain sucks, he got beat up for eight years in a Vietnamese prison." yep that's definitely a reason to pick him!
anarchistfish 05.07.12	"Greece seems to be one of the favorite topics for "outsiders" that don't actually have any idea of what's happening there." educate us
Voivod 05.07.12	As for Hellas, the prevailing Hellenic political parties, also driven by their European bosses (see Commission and Germany), have stepped on the toes of Greek people and now their are reaping what they have sown... Unlike what the world of finance believes, the first three Hellenic political parties at yesterdays' elections want Hellas to be a part of Europe, although they want the austerity measure to get loosened up to a certain degree...
Tyrael 05.07.12	"Greece seems to be one of the favorite topics for "outsiders" that don't actually have any idea of what's happening there." I had a long talk with someone from the KKE about the situation in greece but if you know more of it, please do share it with us
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Never said I was an expert on the topic. I just stated that it seems to attract radical/exaggerated opinions, which - obviously - are probably not the most educated ones. Edit: What is it today that makes people think I'm talking them? For the love of satans wide beard, not everything I say has some kind of subtext.
Tyrael 05.07.12	Oh I was actually hoping you were an expert on the matter lol but anyways, the Neo-nazi party getting 8% of the votes in the elections is something to be scared of regardless
Voivod 05.07.12	the KKE The worst political party in the left wing by far..... These guys are still stuck in the "glorious" (according to them) epoch of Stalin and the gulags... Plus they want Hellas out of the EU. In order to get elected in its chain of command one has to at least 50 years old... They don't want to be in command and they only know how to criticize everything by being outsiders. That's why in yesterday's elections there were at least three political parties from the left asking for vote. The second party yesterday SIRIZA is mildly left and wants Hellas to be a part of Europe.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	Yeah I don't like the sound of Golden Dawn or whoever they are. As far as I can see though, Greece really needs to reform itself if it wants to survive. Sure, the European austerity programmes might be a bit overzealous, especially right now when economies aren't exactly growing that well, but I get the feeling they're in denial. Correct me if I'm wrong. "I had a long talk with someone from the KKE about the situation in greece but if you know more of it, please do share it with us" Would be interested to hear what they had to say.
Motiv3 05.07.12	"But the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." THIS.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	"but anyways, the Neo-nazi party getting 8% of the votes in the elections is something to be scared of regardless" A) Don't use the word "Neo-nazi" if it's probably not appropriate. B) No, it isn't.
Voivod 05.07.12	the Neo-nazi party getting 8% of the votes in the elections is something to be scared of regardless... I couldn't agree more... This guys got 8% from elderly people in the big cities who, unfortunately represent a good portion of the general population in Hellas. Big cities in Greece are flooded with illegal immigrants that go and rob pensions of elderly people. As police doesn't do anything to fix that, the neonazi's have cleared the neighborhoods off immigrants and the serve as escort for the elderly each time the latter are going to the bank to get their pension. That's why the neonazi got 8% yesterday.... The elderly people of Greece got to know nazis during the WW2 and now are voting their native descendants.....
scissorlocked 05.07.12	^ this is a very complicated issue wolfhorde. Many of those exaggerated opinions manifested in the Ultra-nationalists' huge numbers- of course most of the people voting for it had no idea what they were voting for, and this usually applies to most of the parties nowadays. It's a period of constant turmoil which inevitably shapes- sometimes viciously, sometimes with rush- opinions. Imo it's still very early to draw conclusions, but things in Greece will surely continue to worsen (with Spain and Italy following). That's something almost clear I think. From then and on, every analysis will differ, and that's where the political awareness is needed, something that Greeks( and not only) have buried under some decades of fake wealthiness, consumerism and social cannibalism
anarchistfish 05.07.12	""But the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." THIS." Many socialist systems, and arguably the purer ones, are moneyless anyway
Tyrael 05.07.12	'Many socialist systems, and arguably the purer ones, are moneyless anyway' You also don't have any problems with running out of money if everyone gets more or less equal pay but yes, money is just a way of making the trade of goods easier. You don't actually need it to run a society.
Tyrael 05.07.12	Don't forget that money is only worth anything because we gave it that meaning. In that sense it's almost a sort of religion, as in you believe that this piece of paper is worth anything as opposed to say, gold, which is actually a valuable material.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Ultra-nationalists, now that sounds like something way more appropriate. Well, the rush opinions or not much of an idea what exactly people are voting for is not rarely the case. Especially since you can't predict certain political outcomes, no matter what parties say. Reality will always differ from the ideal and projections. Well, things always get worse first before they get better but yeah it will probably deteroriate a bit more before it (might) get better in any shape or way. What nags me is the fact that people from the outside go along with radical opinions and phrasemongering like headlines of boulevard papers. "Pointing fingers" at one party who has "total fault" - despite that kind of thinking being obsolete and unreasonable.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	"Don't forget that money is only worth anything because we gave it that meaning. In that sense it's almost a sort of religion, as in you believe that this piece of paper is worth anything as opposed to say, gold, which is actually a valuable material." Yeah. Think of all the electronic money in the world that people put so much faith in even though it doesn't really exist. I think the concept of money has lost its true and original purpose. It's meant to be something that values the work you've done to then trade for something else, but it's become something much more twisted and big than that.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Do you seriously believe that "money corrupts" ? That it would make any difference if you would substitute money with anything else or that history doesn't prove that this wasn't any different in the beginnings of civilization? Sure, the scales and the currencies changed, but the principles stayed the same. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of this whole thing either but is most definitely not a new phenomenon. That being said, the thing about electronic currency definitely nailed it. Not only it is basically just 1's and 0's it's also way easer to fiddle with those.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	As long as it exists in the form of something, yes.
MO 05.07.12	"Do you seriously believe that "money corrupts" ? That it would make any difference if you would substitute money with anything else or that history doesn't prove that this wasn't any different in the beginnings of civilization? Sure, the scales and the currencies changed, but the principles stayed the same. " agree. because there has been and always will be humans competing with other humans, for bigger, better and newer things. It's just the way we are. Someone does something awesome, it's in someone else's natural instinct to best that person and get recognition. This has evolved with technology and will always continue. So I wouldn't say that money corrupts people, people are naturally "corrupted" by wanting to be better than someone else.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Well, power in any form has a tendency to "take over" or "corrupt" or however you want to call it. Some would just call it the "way things work" (in our current system). But that's nothing specific or exclusive to money, let alone currencies.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	The potential for "corruption" is there but that doesn't mean you have to feed it. It's born out of materialism, and money just helps breed that.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	No, it's not "born" out of "materialism". Materialism is merely a tool or subject that helps drive this principle forward.
deathofasalesman 05.07.12	We have better discussions about politics on this site than we do about music.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	That's because we're a bunch of madmen.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	Either way, this 'principle' is only pushed forward because of societal conditions
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	That kind of thinking is incredibly lazy. No offense, I know it's nice and comfortable but it's far from reality. In reality things rarely ever happen because of one cause, because of one "simple thing", one root. Things happen because of complex causal chains, chains of events and interlocking causes to form the results we perceive. And any attempt to simplify that whole thing to a nice concept is ultimately increasing distance between reality and perception. You just need to go a bit deeper into history to notice that there's mostly way more to certain historical events than one might think, the best and most recent example being the 3rd. Reich and WWII.
Tyrael 05.07.12	Reading all of Wolf's posts in this thread makes me feel dumb
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Not intentional.
Tyrael 05.07.12	no I just have to read your more 'fleshed out' posts like 3 times before I understand them
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Oh believe me, it's way worse in German. Longer sentences, more complex grammar and a whole buckload words more to describe "scienc-y" stuff into the last detail. "Talking" like that kind of comes with the field. (Seriously, I read some of Wittgenstein's original versions, THAT is confusing)
Tyrael 05.07.12	"Talking" like that kind of comes with the field. what did you study again?
rasputin 05.07.12	'Kazbekistan' this is not a country
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Nothing atm but I like science, reading and pondering things with academics for hours. Also, my school has partly university-like standards.
rasputin 05.07.12	'Many socialist systems, and arguably the purer ones, are moneyless anyway' wrong has anyone in this thread even read marx
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	'Kazbekistan' lol wtf why didn't I notice this earlier.
rasputin 05.07.12	also sarkozy was a fuckhead but he had some backbone hollande will achieve nothing, particularly if he actually believes he can renegotiate anything at all with the germans though that's not as ridiculous as the dipshit greeks who actually think they have grounds to negotiate their agreement
alachlahol 05.07.12	dont read sermonizings from communist pigs
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	"hollande will achieve nothing, particularly if he actually believes he can renegotiate anything at all with the germans" Probably true.
alachlahol 05.07.12	isnt hollande actually being nicknamed "the socialist"
alachlahol 05.07.12	havent followed much of the french elections since reading articles on sarkozys mistress
chambered69 05.07.12	alalaclhaclahalaokloaolaocahachaolol
Tyrael 05.07.12	'has anyone in this thread even read marx' I have, didn't you read my comment about wosrhipping money becoming a quasi-religion
Tyrael 05.07.12	worshipping*
kris. 05.07.12	its france who gives a fuck #ignorantamerican
Ire 05.07.12	thank u kris
rasputin 05.07.12	'I have, didn't you read my comment about wosrhipping money becoming a quasi-religion' I was being facetious, I haven't read any comments in this thread other than the ones I've quoted. But I just read your comment, and wholeheartedly disagree.
chambered69 05.07.12	who cares we'll all be dead one day and none of this matter who cares live your life fuck bitches get money and shit
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	Sam being appropriate.
Hyperion1001 05.07.12	trve
Tyrael 05.07.12	'But I just read your comment, and wholeheartedly disagree.' All right, could you offer me some criticism then? I'd love to know what your point of view on this matter is like.
Quen 05.07.12	"who cares we'll all be dead one day and none of this matter who cares live your life fuck bitches get money and shit" swag swag swag swag swoop swoop swoop swag swag swag
MO 05.07.12	"who cares we'll all be dead one day and none of this matter who cares live your life fuck bitches get money and shit" can't tell if serious or not but if so that's a bad way of looking at things
anarchistfish 05.07.12	Marx is a bitch to read
bakkermaarten007 05.07.12	Funny enough, it's those who live by those principles that have the power lol
bakkermaarten007 05.07.12	Marx is a bitch to read. Lenin and Stalin were just bitches.
rasputin 05.07.12	'All right, could you offer me some criticism then? I'd love to know what your point of view on this matter is like.' You claim worshipping money is akin to worshipping religion - I would say that such an analogy is ridiculously general, doesn't really make sense and contributes nothing to whatever discussion it was mentioned in. For one thing, following a religion is voluntary and methodical brainwashing - using money is not. Spreading the gospel is absurd - teaching economics is not. I could point out lots of examples which contradict the analogy but you get my point, plus I don't really want to talk much more about it because it's pointless. For the record, I would like to point out that one of the biggest reasons humans have progressed so much over the last half a century is because of 'electronic money'. There is no valid argument against the current financial system - it seems all of you are blaming economic crises on the concept of credit etc., when in actual fact the crises stem from misuse and misconduct. Plus it's a common principle in economics that the downside of experiencing booms is the possibility of recession.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	"Marx is a bitch to read" Try Nietzsche, Kafka or Wittgenstein. Lots of fun.
bakkermaarten007 05.07.12	I'm having trouble to tell if you mean that or you're just being sarcastic. Been wanting to read Nietzsche for a while.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	"Try Nietzsche, Kafka or Wittgenstein. Lots of fun." At least you're reading stuff that was originally written in your own language. When things get translated they get 10x more awkward.
Dev518 05.07.12	Has anyone in this thread even read Böhm-Bawerk?
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	"I'm having trouble to tell if you mean that or you're just being sarcastic. Been wanting to read Nietzsche for a while." Both. Kafka is classic German literature, known for writing incredibly long and grammatically complicated sentences, hence the word "kafkaesque" (kafkaesk). Nietzsche's writing style is INCREDIBLY rhetorical, especially metaphorical and hard to analyze since there is a lot of room to interpret (why the Nazis later misused his concept of the "Übermensch") but it's also very interesting if you're into philosophy. Wittgenstein is maybe the most complicated read of all of them, where you always have to read back and forth to fully understand what exactly he's getting at. But what I said for Nietzsche also goes for the other two. They are definitely interesting/good reads if a certain interest is there. "At least you're reading stuff that was originally written in your own language. When things get translated they get 10x more awkward." Maybe true, but German is a quite complicated language. Even more on a scientific level, especially considering the possibilities you have when writing with a rather high standard/about scientifical/philosophical. The sentence structure gets more complicated, the vocabulary gets more complicated. That being said I do get the point you're making though, I'm not sure if reading things like Nietzsche in English would be same as in German because of what I mentioned above.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	*about scientifical/philosophical issues.
scissorlocked 05.07.12	Wolfhorde's words are true but all of them are pieces of cake in front of Heidegger- who also suffers from weak translations,not to mention the interpretations...
eternium 05.07.12	It's 2012 and Americans still associate socialism with communism as well as huge debts. A big part of this guy's platform is to lower France's debt, helped by a maximum 75% tax on the richest citizens.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	I wouldn't say they are pieces of cake, there is quite a bit of time between some of them and they're quite different stylistically but yeah Heidegger is a lot to take. Don't know about the translations though but let us not get started on misinterpretations, complicated literature is bound to be misinterpreted. I already mentioned one of the prime examples with Nietzsche.
Tyrael 05.07.12	'A big part of this guy's platform is to lower France's debt, helped by a maximum 75% tax on the richest citizens.' A belgian journalist examined this 'tax' a little closer and he said it's just a symbolic measure tho
scissorlocked 05.07.12	France's left Nietzcheans restored his memory for us let us be grateful
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	"A belgian journalist examined this 'tax' a little closer and he said it's just a symbolic measure tho" Anything else would be utterly ludicrous anyway. Try taxing the elites with 75% and that shit's gonna get bad before you can say "taking showers is something for the bourgeoisie".
anarchistfish 05.07.12	"A big part of this guy's platform is to lower France's debt, helped by a maximum 75% tax on the richest citizens." That tax will do practically nothing. The number of people it will affect is tiny (3500 or something), so it's just a tax for him to say "hey look I'm a socialist". And the whole point of his plans is that he's gonna spend more (hence the 60k teachers etc), which coincidentally goes against current european austerity, which is actually a good thing (for now). What will happen afterwards is gonna be interesting though.
Satellite 05.07.12	he's going to install rearview mirrors in all french tanks to give their armies a better view of the enemy forces
anarchistfish 05.07.12	ninja'd I think he announced it in an interview without his party knowing too. Seemed quite spontaneous
anarchistfish 05.07.12	"he's going to install rearview mirrors in all french tanks to give their armies a better view of the enemy forces" that one's old
eternium 05.07.12	The austerity is what is currently fucking Europe's economy. Yes they need to solve their debt problems but they need to wait until the economy is gold to do it. You can't retract government spending during economic woes. That is where European countries and U.S. states are messing up.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	You're right, it's just that it doesn't seem like Hollande intends to spend because he's specifically against austerity; he would anyway. Cos he wants to raise taxes as well, which is another thing you shouldn't do in an economic situation like this.
johnnyblaze 05.07.12	i would love to be a fly on the wall when hollande meets with merkel in a few weeks and tries to convince her that austerity measures are bad. lmao - this is going to be a disaster.
eternium 05.07.12	Apparently the French and Greek people feel that the austerity measures are bad.... you know, since they're the ones directly affected by them.
Wolfhorde 05.07.12	It's not going to be a "disaster", he's just gonna be stonewalled. Merkel already made pretty clear that she won't change course in that topic. Also, I wouldn't say "fucking Europe's economy" - although we're all in this shit whether we want it or not it sounds a bit like the whole thing would be "even" which it is most definitely not. While the economies in other countries suffered e.g. our economy started to recover from 2008 and nothing has really changed in terms of wealth. This whole thing is mainly a gripe of the coast line, namely Greece, Italy and Spain (and well, maybe now France too) but doesn't affect the the economy or well, let's rather say average wealth in most of the central ones.
johnnyblaze 05.07.12	you know, when govt spending is already 55% of GDP maybe austerity is a good thing for a country like france, especially considering their deficit... eternium if you think this is purely keynesian and they can spend their way out of this recession youre crazy. i'd say the bigger factors at play now are more political and have mainly to do with the survival /stability of the euro.. but who the fuck knows, it's sure be an interesting presidency.
anarchistfish 05.07.12	France have a relatively low retirement age and working hours too. I hate to admit it, but if they expect to be able to spend that much in the long term they can't afford that kind of lifestyle
drewcordova 05.08.12	Here we go again....