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Old 06-05-2011, 06:00 PM   #1
Peytonnn
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where did the kick go?

i'm sick of hearing kick drums that sound like a hand clap with an oscillator to give it a sub push. where is the resonance. where is the actual kick. can we, engineers, please put an end to this and quit abusing this instrument. god damn
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:14 PM   #2
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I suspect that this is one of those fad things that will come and go from time to time.
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:29 PM   #3
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Its the D6 sound. All sub-bass, all click, nothing in between.
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:10 PM   #4
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I'm personally a fan of somewhat-clicky kick drum sounds. It's a necessity for most metal recordings: without the 'click', it's very hard to get the kick drum to have any presence in a dense wall of guitars without eating up loads of headroom. Yeah, for jazz and other types of music it can work fine to have a less-defined kick drum sound, but to say that that sound is a bad thing is short-sighted.

As a monitor engineer, a lot of the time when I can't turn up the kick drum any more (would clip the amps), I add high-end presence in order to make it perceptually louder to the artist without a significant increase in amplitude.

As for the D6, I think it's a terrific microphone for kick drum. I don't think that it is substantially clickier than a Beta 52 (though the click is a little higher, 3.5-4.5kHz vs. 2.5-3.5). The real win is in the low end where the D6 is much fatter than anything I've heard except for maybe the Sennheiser e602 or e902.

I'm curious what kind of sound you think of as ideal (recordings would be great).
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:19 PM   #5
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I didn't say the D6 was bad. I just said what the D6 is...all click, all sub-bass, nothing in between. It does make a good sound, but that's it...."a" good sound. Its a one-trick pony, and while it does it well, that's all you have.

As far as metal goes, yeah I understand that's the style, but I still don't like it. I like the pre-Justice Metallica albums drum sounds because the bass sounds a lot more natural.

I love my Beta 52, because I can get a pretty damn natural sounding tone out of it. i think it sounds terrible inside the bass drum, but a couple inches outside of the porthole and it sounds fantastic. Get a nice full tone with it.

The fattest bass tones are an LDC a few feet back, don't think any large diaphragm mics will get the bass response a good LDC would.

I use to add EQ to the 4 khz range to make it cut through, but I found I have a more pleasing, natural sounding tone if I boost much lower, like 2 khz. Again, this is with my bass drum, but while it won't be as in your face, it won't sound like clicking sticks. It has power, which is what rock 'n roll is about.
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:52 PM   #6
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I agree that it's very style-oriented. I'm not really a metal guy, so the most exposure I get to that super-clicky sound are in the more heavily produced mainstream "pop-hardcore" stuff that's out there. Though generally those are more "thuddy" than "clicky" for the most part.

The thing about a "thud" and "click" is that neither of those sounds are particularly natural, and I tend to prefer trying to capture what the drum actually sounds like (though I do like a good thud if it doesn't overpower the rest of the low-end for that style).

For less "modern" styles, you want a "boomier" sound. The thud/click is very in-your-face, but doesn't give the natural sense of "larger than life" to me. It mostly makes me feel like I'm sitting inside the drum kit (not that this is always bad).

I know it sounds cliche, but there's a reason John Bonham and Keith Moon get tossed around for this kind of thing. You get the right song cranked up nicely and the drums are huge-sounding while still giving the mix lots of room to give a sense of space. Equally cliched: the last two Nirvana albums I think do a nice job of giving a natural-sounding drum kit while still being more in your face.
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:04 AM   #7
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just skimmed the thread. been using the d6 on most kicks i've recorded.
i do hear some low/sub-ish end. but i put it about a fist away from the beater and pointed toward the very edge of the drum, for resonance. i will upload a track. it's totally capable of getting a very prominent sound without having that shitty slap/low-end mainstream sound that some many "kick drums" have now. its not the mic. its the assistant eng./ head eng. choice.

also. has anyone seen the "sub kick" mic? i see it everywhere. fucking hate that thing.
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:13 PM   #8
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I made my own subkick and it works great. If i had a better kick mic i don't know if i would use it very much though.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:28 PM   #9
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This seems like an appropriate place to show my bass drum mic shootout. The familiar Beta 52 verses an LDC, an AT 4047. Sounds pretty different (although they are in different locations).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BiLDXsSpcA&feature=related
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:04 PM   #10
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Who cares what mic you use on kick, it's just gonna get replaced by a sample or four anyhows
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:25 PM   #11
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room sounds guys, room sounds... it's ok to get click kique, but only if you comp and bump up them room mics; granting you the best of both worlds
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:18 AM   #12
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Only problem is, when's the last time you found a track with amazing room mic tracks?
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Convectuoso View Post
Only problem is, when's the last time you found a track with amazing room mic tracks?
i'll show you some in a few days.
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:41 PM   #14
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Only problem is, when's the last time you found a track with amazing room mic tracks?
every time? close mics are made to get attack, the rooms are THE most important part man, that's what makes a drumset sound like... a drumset


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i'll show you some in a few days.
new user has some conviction
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:12 PM   #15
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My little Naiant X-M gets pretty good room sounds....its been about two years since I used it, but maybe its time to try it out again!
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:57 PM   #16
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if you could get a match pair of those homeboys as overheads and a large diaphragm condenser for the mono room mic you'd have some pretty solid drum sounds. What have you been using on drums lately?
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:12 PM   #17
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every time? close mics are made to get attack, the rooms are THE most important part man, that's what makes a drumset sound like... a drumset




new user has some conviction
I think you misinterpreted my post.


I meant how many non professionally recorded drums are in a decent room?


Everyone skimps out on the tracking phase and expects some dude in his basement on Pro Tools to fix it all.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:27 PM   #18
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I think you misinterpreted my post.


I meant how many non professionally recorded drums are in a decent room?


Everyone skimps out on the tracking phase and expects some dude in his basement on Pro Tools to fix it all.
well thats the difference between a professional sounding track and a mediocre sounding track. A "decent" room is difficult to come by, especially if you want 100% natural reverb a la when the levee breaks
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:07 PM   #19
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The funny thing about that song, it wasn't even a decent room. Wasn't it a stairwell?

Surprisingly, my garage has pretty decent acoustics. My drums sound great in here....pretty dry without any muffling or gating whatsoever.

Quote:
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if you could get a match pair of those homeboys as overheads and a large diaphragm condenser for the mono room mic you'd have some pretty solid drum sounds. What have you been using on drums lately?
The XM's are no longer in production. I am seriously considering picking up at least 3 of the new X-O's, for drum spot miking. It may work better on snare than my SM57 and i5! And I can try out tom close miking, something I've never done (but never had to do, either).

For about the past year I was using 2 RODE NT2-a's as overheads, Beta 52 on bass, and Audix i5 on snare. I decided to dust off my 57's and now using those on snare, and will probably be using my new AT 4047 on bass from here on out.

Last edited by Seafroggys; 06-15-2011 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:17 PM   #20
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For about the past year I was using 2 RODE NT2-a's as overheads, Beta 52 on bass, and Audix i5 on snare. I decided to dust off my 57's and now using those on snare, and will probably be using my new AT 4047 on bass from here on out.

I am envious of your ability to make lots of noise. Townhouse living is great for most people, but is less fun for home studio stuff.

Normally doesn't bother me too much, but lately I've been hankering for a nice big session...
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:17 AM   #21
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heh, still living at home has its perks.

I am almost able to afford to move out (just need a few more students), but when I do, I have to leave my studio here. But I teach here two days a week, and my band reherses here once a week, so its not like one of those situations where I'll only be able to record/play once every 2 months. Besides, that's usually how often I practice on my drumset anyway (3-4 days a week), so it wouldn't be a drastic change (I mostly practice on drum pads nowadays anyway, less noisy and less distracting and I've actually been improving faster)
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:49 PM   #22
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Serious question.

If I just got a practice pad, two drums sticks and a metronome. Practiced rudiments like at least an hour a day for 6 months. Without ever touching a drumkit, do you think I would actually get better?


And this isn't a dig on you only practicing on pads now at all, just sparked an idea in my head.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:23 PM   #23
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Hour a day is kind of long unless you were really hardcore. I usually do 20 minutes a day on the pad, but I do a specific workout regimen and it ends up lasting roughly that long.

What does improve is your speed, dexterity, power, dynamics, and control on your hands. When playing grooves and fills on the drumset, I can play things I was playing before with more fluidity, more speed, and I don't get tired as easily. My drags now actually sound like drags instead of buzzes.

Now the downside is you aren't working your feet, so my bass drum is lagging behind my hands farther than it was before but oh well, I'm still better overall.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:15 PM   #24
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The XM's are no longer in production. I am seriously considering picking up at least 3 of the new X-O's, for drum spot miking. It may work better on snare than my SM57 and i5! And I can try out tom close miking, something I've never done (but never had to do, either).

For about the past year I was using 2 RODE NT2-a's as overheads, Beta 52 on bass, and Audix i5 on snare. I decided to dust off my 57's and now using those on snare, and will probably be using my new AT 4047 on bass from here on out.
sounds like a pretty slick setup, i'd say use the 57's over an i5 and YES beta52 on bass is amazing, i actually like it better on bass than on kick :P
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:42 AM   #25
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Sorry when I say bass I generally mean "kick" drum, I just never call it kick, since I come from an orchestral/marching background. Its a bass drum to me, always will be.

I've never tried a Beta 52 on bass amp. I usually DI my bass guitar but I've had success with my D112 on bass amp.
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:05 AM   #26
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Sorry when I say bass I generally mean "kick" drum, I just never call it kick, since I come from an orchestral/marching background. Its a bass drum to me, always will be.
I dislike "kick drum" as a term. I understand it and all, and communication is the essence of language, but I just dislike it. I mean, who actually kicks the drum?
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:08 AM   #27
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I dislike "kick drum" as a term. I understand it and all, and communication is the essence of language, but I just dislike it. I mean, who actually kicks the drum?
people who use their feet to play drums
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