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Old 05-24-2006, 03:19 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by IdioticJester
The mother. After hearing about the incident, the father started spanking the kid too, and he's much better.
You mean that by beating him, he's become responsible and able to recognize and prevent himself from doing a selfish act? Or, more likely, is he scared shitless to do anything he thinks might get him beaten?
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:20 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by The Tway
don't raise kids who refused to listen to me by showing myself to be a subhuman neanderthal who can't communicate with language and just has to resort to hitting things.
What if they act out and don't respond to other discipline? I was brought up right, but I didn't always listen till I got hit. Then I learned.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:21 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by coheneran
You mean that by beating him, he's become responsible and able to recognize and prevent himself from doing a selfish act? Or, more likely, is he scared shitless to do anything he thinks might get him beaten?
The latter. But now he knows not to do it. As he grows up, he'll learn that he deserved it and what he did was not right. Unless he's a little retard or something.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:22 PM   #64
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And sometimes children need to be degraded if they do not respond to other discipline. There are far worse things that can happen to them than a little smack.
That's an empty statement. By that logic, we should use thumbscrews to stop toddlers from sucking their thumbs, because "there are far worse things that can happen to them."
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:22 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by coheneran
Yes it is. There's no such thing as a "little spanking". Even if it's not that painful, it's humiliating and it's degrading. Parents and teachers are in a position of power and responsibility, and to abuse that power on someone so vulnerable and inexperienced is plain wrong. Parenting and violence should not go hand in hand.
That's the idea. The idea of discipline is not to make the child feel happy. It's supposed to humiliate them and make them feel bad because they've done wrong. What argument do you have? You've never experienced it. it's not that bad. How many times do we have to say we turned out alright? You're thinking of extremes and it's not extreme. A smack on the hand is not emotionally scarring. It's not always neccessary but sometimes a child needs to know where they stand.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:22 PM   #66
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What if they act out and don't respond to other discipline? I was brought up right, but I didn't always listen till I got hit. Then I learned.
so you had bad parents. not my problem, take it up with them.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:23 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by IdioticJester
The latter. But now he knows not to do it. As he grows up, he'll learn that he deserved it and what he did was not right. Unless he's a little retard or something.
But he doesn't understand WHY, so he hasn't really learned. If I memorize the answers to a maths test and then pass it with full marks, have I learned anything? No, I didn't.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:23 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coheneran
That's an empty statement. By that logic, we should use thumbscrews to stop toddlers from sucking their thumbs, because "there are far worse things that can happen to them."
Thumbsucking doesn't hurt anybody and doesn't warrent punishment. Getting hit doesn't cause any psychological harm in a loving household. In an abusive home, yes, but not in a loving one. I dare you to prove otherwise with FACTS.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by The Tway
so you had bad parents. not my problem, take it up with them.
I had good parents. So any parent whose kids doesn't always listen to them is a bad parent?

Quote:
But he doesn't understand WHY, so he hasn't really learned. If I memorize the answers to a maths test and then pass it with full marks, have I learned anything? No, I didn't.
Any other forms of discipline will make children understand any more?
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:25 PM   #70
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Thumbsucking doesn't hurt anybody and doesn't warrent punishment. Getting hit doesn't cause any psychological harm in a loving household. In an abusive home, yes, but not in a loving one. I dare you to prove otherwise with FACTS.
hey buddy didn't you look at those links on the other page. I posted two very good proofs that it can cause psychological harm
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:25 PM   #71
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I had good parents
you just told me they beat you.

no wonder you hate freedom, you're some kind of masochist.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:26 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tway
so you had bad parents. not my problem, take it up with them.
It's obviously not bad parenting if the child turned out alright.

Quote:
But he doesn't understand WHY, so he hasn't really learned. If I memorize the answers to a maths test and then pass it with full marks, have I learned anything? No, I didn't.
When a child is young, whether they get shouted at or hit for doing something wrong all they know is that they've done something wrong and not to do it again. They don't know why, it's just wrong. As they grow up they understand and they learn why things are wrong and right, they make their own decisions and don't need to be punished anymore, they make their own mistakes.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:27 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tway
you just told me they beat you.

no wonder you hate freedom, you're some kind of masochist.
I was disciplined with a smack on the arm or leg to show me that what I was doing was wrong. Only when I did bad things though, severely acting up and not listening to what they said. But after being hit, I stopped.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:27 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coheneran
Yes it is. There's no such thing as a "little spanking". Even if it's not that painful, it's humiliating and it's degrading. Parents and teachers are in a position of power and responsibility, and to abuse that power on someone so vulnerable and inexperienced is plain wrong. Parenting and violence should not go hand in hand.
I really don't see some taps on the butt as violence, I really don't.

Some mild, rare spanks will teach the kid things that a parent that is too soft and hands off won't.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:28 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Herbert_da_fish
That's the idea. The idea of discipline is not to make the child feel happy. It's supposed to humiliate them and make them feel bad because they've done wrong. What argument do you have? You've never experienced it. it's not that bad. How many times do we have to say we turned out alright? You're thinking of extremes and it's not extreme. A smack on the hand is not emotionally scarring. It's not always neccessary but sometimes a child needs to know where they stand.
I've been beaten. My parents were stressed out (this was when we were still living in Israel) and unhappy, and I was a little git. Once we emigrated from Israel, my parents became happier, they stopped beating me (not that it was a common thing in the first place), I was happier and looking back on it now, I started acting like a "good little boy" once we moved away. I guess in my case, my behaviour depended on my parents' behaviour.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:28 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdioticJester
I was disciplined with a smack on the arm or leg to show me that what I was doing was wrong. Only when I did bad things though, severely acting up and not listening to what they said. But after being hit, I stopped.
Precisely.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:28 PM   #77
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It's obviously not bad parenting if the child turned out alright.
he didn't turn out right he's got a rick santorum avatar.

Quote:
I was disciplined with a smack on the arm or leg to show me that what I was doing was wrong. Only when I did bad things though, severely acting up and not listening to what they said. But after being hit, I stopped.
If I were you I would sue them.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:28 PM   #78
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it seems to me that the ones opposed to spanking kids ar ethe ones that were beaten, not spanked. They are two different things.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:29 PM   #79
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When a child is young, whether they get shouted at or hit for doing something wrong all they know is that they've done something wrong and not to do it again. They don't know why, it's just wrong. As they grow up they understand and they learn why things are wrong and right, they make their own decisions and don't need to be punished anymore, they make their own mistakes.
That's not right. Kids should understand why things are wrong when they are getting punished for them so they can realise that its not just arbitrary violence being inflicted on them. Cause that will really screw them up. You say when they grow up they can make their own decisions, but honestly kids are constatnly making decisions and they should be aware of the repercussions and morals associated with them as soon as possible.

Quote:
It's obviously not bad parenting if the child turned out alright.
thats false
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:29 PM   #80
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he didn't turn out right he's got a rick santorum avatar.
I just don't like the other guy. Santorum is a douche too.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:30 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coheneran
I've been beaten. My parents were stressed out (this was when we were still living in Israel) and unhappy, and I was a little git. Once we emigrated from Israel, my parents became happier, they stopped beating me (not that it was a common thing in the first place), I was happier and looking back on it now, I started acting like a "good little boy" once we moved away. I guess in my case, my behaviour depended on my parents' behaviour.
That is bad parenting. That is losing control. If it's a stable environment and the sanctions are consistent then it's only going to depend on one thing. Whether you do something bad or good.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:31 PM   #82
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Thumbsucking doesn't hurt anybody and doesn't warrent punishment. Getting hit doesn't cause any psychological harm in a loving household. In an abusive home, yes, but not in a loving one. I dare you to prove otherwise with FACTS.
That's impossible to prove and you know it. And you can't prove that either. You're expecting me to come up with something like "1 in 5 children who are beaten in a loving household don't retain psychological damage." How do you judge that? Don't ask me to source something you couldn't source either.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:31 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by lfantwister
That's not right. Kids should understand why things are wrong when they are getting punished for them so they can realise that its not just arbitrary violence being inflicted on them. Cause that will really screw them up. You say when they grow up they can make their own decisions, but honestly kids are constatnly making decisions and they should be aware of the repercussions and morals associated with them as soon as possible.


thats false
How? The purpose of a parent is to bring up their child and that they turn out alright. Bad parenting is where they don't. Please- feel free to expand on your already detailed argument.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:32 PM   #84
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mild Spanking Is Not Beating A Kid.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Mr. Ron
mild Spanking Is Not Beating A Kid.
one two three
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:33 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by coheneran
That's impossible to prove and you know it. And you can't prove that either. You're expecting me to come up with something like "1 in 5 children who are beaten in a loving household don't retain psychological damage." How do you judge that? Don't ask me to source something you couldn't source either.
If you can't prove that spanking doesn't cause problems, then what's wrong with it. I don't need to prove that it DOESN'T to support it. Everyone who I know who was spanked turned out alright. My brother in law and his sisters were spanked, and they're terrific and nonviolent people now. I was spanked and I'm not some warped freak. Same with my friends.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:34 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Herbert_da_fish
one two three
It's like syaing a pillow fight is the equivalent to a boxing match.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:35 PM   #88
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It's obviously not bad parenting if the child turned out alright.


When a child is young, whether they get shouted at or hit for doing something wrong all they know is that they've done something wrong and not to do it again. They don't know why, it's just wrong. As they grow up they understand and they learn why things are wrong and right, they make their own decisions and don't need to be punished anymore, they make their own mistakes.
I know loads of children (some of them toddlers) who wouldn't hurt a fly, let alone tease another child or whine for candy, and I know most of their parents well. Pacifist parents whose voices I've only heard raised at demonstrations. You're wrong.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:36 PM   #89
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mild Spanking Is Not Beating A Kid.
yeah it actually is
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:36 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by coheneran
I know loads of children (some of them toddlers) who wouldn't hurt a fly, let alone tease another child or whine for candy, and I know most of their parents well. Pacifist parents whose voices I've only heard raised at demonstrations. You're wrong.
Not all kids are perfect, simple as that.
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