Do you know about any good jazz guitar book? I already know about scales, modes, arpegios, etc. I have an intermediate level, but I play metal and i also want to learn how to play jazz. Thanks

[QUOTE=Pete Down I Go;14920552]Damn there's a lot of writing in this thread!

In my experience, it's really important to get your scales down, but at the end of the day, on the bandstand, it's your ear that's going to guide you.

Personally, I find it really useful to draw a BIG distinction between approaches to playing in practise and playing onstage: Practise is all about enlarging your vocabulary and playing is all about not thinking about that stuff: if it's in your language, it'll come out on its own.

In short, it's often really unconvincing to impose pre prepared harmonic or rhythmic features in a solo as opposed to simply following your ear.

The best analogy I can think of for this is if you learn a long word and try to use it to sound clever: everyone will know you're doing it, and you're fairly likely to use the word in an unneccesary context where you could have used something more concise and understandable HOWEVER, if that word sits comfortably in your vocabulary, it'll come out when it's needed and sound perfectly at home within the phrase without a second thought or a concious decision to use it.

Sunstitute 'long word' for 'harmonic or rhythmic technique' (yucky term though it is) and you come to how I think about my playing.

Sorry if I've covered repetitive ground here, I just skim read the thread.[/QUOTE]

Amen.
It's so important to learn your modes and cop licks from people. But you can't depend on them or it sounds like someone running a bunch of scales.
Learn it all - but don't depend on it.

[QUOTE=mrcarter;16588019]Amen.
It's so important to learn your modes and cop licks from people. But you can't depend on them or it sounds like someone running a bunch of scales.
Learn it all - but don't depend on it.[/QUOTE]

i think learning basic chord theory is more important than learning modes. so many musicians don't know a M7 from an m7

[QUOTE=yontar;16627853]i think learning basic chord theory is more important than learning modes. so many musicians don't know a M7 from an m7[/QUOTE]

Those chords are derrived from the modes

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[quote=mrcarter;16628187]Those chords are derrived from the modes[/quote]

They can be but that's just one way to look at it, you can think of it as every other note of a mode

D E F G A B C - D F A C
dorian - m7


or a major scale with diatonic thirds stacked on top.

B C D E F G A B
G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C


note the symmetrical patterns..

[quote=spastic;12414889]and the 7th chords

1: Min(Maj7)
2: Min7
3: Maj7#5
4: 7 #11 (Dominant)
5: 7 b13 (Dominant)
6: Min7 b5
7: Min7 b5

however, the 7th degree is better characterized as a dominant 7 with every possible tension (b9 #9 #11 b13). Also known as the altered scale, so whenever you see something like G7alt. it is referring to this scale.[/quote]

Also b5 and #5, although some would argue those are enharmonic equivalents.

nitpicky..

[QUOTE=EADGC;16792408]They can be but that's just one way to look at it, you can think of it as every other note of a mode

D E F G A B C - D F A C
dorian - m7


or a major scale with diatonic thirds stacked on top.

B C D E F G A B
G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C


note the symmetrical patterns..[/QUOTE]

ahah man
that's what I said

[quote=mrcarter;16794410]ahah man
that's what I said[/quote]

Yes but you don't need to use or even understand the diatonic modes at all to build chords. Although it is a totally valid way to look at it.

I'm horrible at improvisation. I play Trumpet. Suggestions?

[quote=0m3ga0n3;16885314]I'm horrible at improvisation. I play Trumpet. Suggestions?[/quote]

Learn your scales and play around them for a month, only playing scales and improvising. The only way to improve your improvisation is to learn theory (so that you have a basis of what works and what you should never do), and to improvise non-stop. Think about what you're playing though, don't just subconsciously play the same notes/rhythmic patterns ad infinitum.

why is this stickied?

Why the **** is this stickied?

its too gatdamn sticky up in this bitch

how do substitutions work?

i always here jazzers talking about that.

Any a fan of Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra? Played some 'Us,' at a jazz club the other day, they loved, but never heard of him before, I was shocked!

[QUOTE=embouchuregirl;17364853]how do substitutions work?

i always here jazzers talking about that.[/QUOTE]

Well, opening the doors to chord subs will lead you on a huge journey. Substitutions work by replacing the implied harmony with something new (yet that works with the melody). Most of the time, these chords will share some of the same notes as the chords before, but will have others that imply a new, interesting sound.

For example:

Tritone Substitutions: Lets say you are playing over a basic IIm, V7, I. In C, it'd look something like, Dmin7 G7 Cmaj7. Well, the dominant chord (V) spelled out would be "G B D F." If we decide to substitute that chord with a dominant based on its tritone (C#/Db), we'd get "C# F G# B." I'd like to draw your attention to the guide tones (3rds/7ths). Notice that, C#7 has the exact same guide tones as G7, the only difference being that they switched places (3-7, 7-3). Therefore, we could play the same progression, but sub in this chord for the G7 - giving a nice chromatic movement to the bassline.

Dm7, G7, Cmaj7 => Dm7, [B]C#7[/B], Cmaj7

Of course, the same can be done with almost anything, you just need to try everything that comes to mind, and hear what works. However, it is good to consider the root movement of your substitutions (random illogical progressions that work with the melody will indeed sound random. Therefore, substitutions are best used in areas that will enhance the piece, and not just to be 'out there')

Hi All of you,
( sorry for my english)

I would like to have some help for tune analysis.
The tune is called "Sunshine Song" ( Keith Jarrett from "Nude Ants")
In fact, i'm working to find the different tonal centers and the modulation trough the tune.
I' can't find what's happend in the middle of that song..Some chords progressions which are too complex to understand to me.
Somebody could have any idea about it ?

( I'cant publish any sounds or any score of that tune because there are copyrighted, but here is the basic chord progression)

| Gmi7 ___ | C7 ___ | Fmaj7 Cmi7| Bmi7b5 ___|

| Bmi7b5 E7 | Ami7 D7 | Eb/Db ___ | Gmi7b5 C7 |

| Bbmi7 Eb7 | Ami7 D7 | Abmi7 ___ | Db7 ___ |

| F#mi7b5 __| B7 ___ | Bb7sus ___| Eb7 ___ |

| Abmaj7 Ami| Ami7 D7 | Gmaj7 ___ | C#mi7 ___ |

| F#7 ____ | Bmi7 ___ | Bmi7 ____ | C7 D7 |




And here is the way that i would find different tonal centers.



_F maj______________________| G maj ______

| Gmi7 ___ | C7 ___ | Fmaj7 Cmi7| Bmi7b5 ___|


_________________ ??? _______ ??? ______
| Bmi7b5 E7 | Ami7 D7 | Eb/Db ___ | Gmi7b5 C7 |


_???_______???______???_________________
| Bbmi7 Eb7 | Ami7 D7 | Abmi7 ___ | Db7 ___ |


_???______________| Ab maj _____________
| F#mi7b5 __| B7 ___ | Bb7sus ___| Eb7 ___ |


_______| G maj _______________| Bmin ______
| Abmaj7 Ami| Ami7 D7 | Gmaj7 ___ | C#mi7 ___ |


____________________________| G min _____
| F#7 ____ | Bmi7 ___ | Bmi7 ____ | C7 D7 |



Thanks you for your help...

[QUOTE=Stig Caraveo;17360653]Why the **** is this stickied?[/QUOTE]

:eek: Because it's jazz(!)

Anyway, I had this question about tritone substitution; You know when you have II - V - I in, say C major, so you have Dm7, G7 and C maj7, am I correct in thinking that it is only the V7 chord that may be substituted (in this case for Db7), so C maj7 can NOT be substituted for Gbmaj7 and Dm7 can NOT be substituted for Abm7.

Also, does the melody have to be 'far out', so to speak to use a tritone substitution or are you allowed to use it anyway? For the sake of improvisation which scales work over say Db7 when used as a tritone substitution? Db mixolydian? Db bebop mixolydian? Db diminished scale? Or should you stick to these scales starting on G.

In composing,should the bass change note as well to Db, or can it stay on a G, while the piano is playing some Db voicing and the melody above sticking to G mixolydian or whatever.

Also can you apply all of the above to reharmonization in general?

Thanks a lot.

Of what I know...

Only the V7 chord can be substituted in that context, so there is a resolution to the tonic chord, in your example Cmaj7. The melody doesn't have to be 'far out' or really technical or so forth, it can be as simple as you want or as tough as you want, but you would have to check and make sure the notes used in the melody work over the substituted chord. The bass should ideally play the Db.

Tritone substitution works best with dominant chords because of the common tones. There are plenty of other substitutions, just look for common tones. E.g. a C6 (I6) could comfortably be substituted for a Fmaj 7 (IVmaj7)

C6 - C E G A
Fmaj7 - F A C E

Would work well with Fmaj9 too, I guess.

For the record this is all theory off the top of my head, not exactly sure how it sounds. Might be completely awful. I'd like to experiment with this, maj7 chords kick ***.

And yes, don't substitute for the sake of it, obviously only do this kinda stuff if it really seems to work better.

I need help understanding chord inversions.

I understand you just raise the lower note up an octave.

1357 becomes 3571 (first inversion) and then 5713 (2nd inv) and then 7135 (3rd inv).

but what about 1375 and 1537. what inversion are these? is the inversion name based off of the lowest bass note, making both of them root inversions?

i've compiled a list of all the inversions:
1357 3571 5713 7135
1375 3517 5731 7153
1735 3157 5137 7351
1753 3175 5173 7315
1573 3751 5371 7513
1537 3715 5317 7531

is it normal for a jazz musician to know all of these for all chords (substituting 3's and 7's for b3's and b7's etc)?

New member
 

Hi, I m new to this forum. I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of a jazz guitarist named Linc Chamberland? He died in 1987 and had only a few albums. I believe he was from Connecticut.

Joe

Resolved and unresolved chords...
 

Hi. I was researching some music theory, specifically in the area of the harmonized scale. I stumbled upon something that is totally new to me and I am not really sure if anyone uses this concept for chord progressions.

The article uses the C Ionian scale to make its point. The article indicates that in the 7 chords derived from the C Ionian scale, three chords do NOT have the F note in them and four chords DO have the F note.

Case and point. C Maj7 E minor7 Aminor7. There is NO F in these three chords and the other four chords DO have F in them.

Dminor7 FMajor7 G7 and Bminor7b5.

The article then proceeds to say that in the C Ionian scale the interval C to F is a Perfect fourth, it is also an Unresolved interval. The 4 chords that have the F in them are considered Unresolved. Even though G7 and Bminor7b5 do NOT have C, it still refers back to the C ionian root, C to F is unresolved.

The "hands on" practical application of this is explained as follows:

Take the typical II V I which would be Dmin7 G7 CMaj7. Based on the "F" logic, we have three chords. Unresolved Dmin7 Unresolved G7 and Resolved CMaj7.

As you probably know, CMaj7 Emin7 and Amin7 can all act as C. The remaining 4 chords can also be used as a sort of "Sub" for the II V I progression in this key. The Unresolved chords can all be utilized.

If you play a V IV III progression, it is still Unresolved, unresolved, resolved. G7 FMaj7 Emin7.

There are two more possibilities. You can play a II VII VI progression also.
Once again, unresolved, unresolve, resolved. Dmin7 Bminor7b5 Amin7.
(Bminor7b5 is basically G9, I love harmony.

The last option to play "Unresolved, unresolved, resolved is
FMaj7 G7 CMaj7

Maybe this is old news for experienced jazz players, but its new to me and I like how it gives me options, very cool indeed. Finally, something I "get". haha. Joe

I love jazz music, it make me relax.. even though i don't know the theory or what so ever but jazz is really a good music, it help you relax and think well.. :)

thats some interesting stuff joe, something ive seen a bit but never thought much about.

sad to see this thread full of unanswered old posts and spam. need more jazz up in here.

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Kind of Blue 50th Anniversary Tour featuring Jimmy Cobb's So What Band
with Jeremy Pelt, Vincent Herring, Javon Jackson, Buster Williams, and Larry Willis
Sunday, February 13, 2011, 3:00 PM

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featuring Jimmy Cobb's So What Band
With Jeremy Pelt, Vincent Herring, Javon Jackson, Buster Williams, and Larry Willis


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