Underpowering Cabs?
 

What are the disadvantages of underpowering cabinets? Like what are the negative effects on the cabinet, if there are any at all. I have cabs in mind for my new rig, but they have a larger rms wattage then the head would put out.

While I'm at it, I might as well ask for some reccomendations as well. I need two 8 ohm cabs with at least 600 watts RMS handling, Preferably a 4x10 and a 2x12. Try to keep the total price of the 2 cabs below $1000 please(low as possible is nice too!).

Its greatly appreciated :thumb: :wave: .

[SIZE="7"]Clipping, clipping, and....more clipping.[/SIZE]

Underpowering a cabinet will cause you to lose significant amounts of headroom, depending on how much you're actually underpowering. This causes you to lose volume, which causes you to turn up, which causes clipping, etc, etc.

Awww, I was hoping for a "its not really that much of a problem" , but i guess I got the short end of the stick this time.

So I guess Im relying on reccomendations then... damn.

[quote=Sade][SIZE=2]Clipping, clipping, and....more clipping.[/SIZE]

Underpowering a cabinet will cause you to lose significant amounts of headroom, depending on how much you're actually underpowering. This causes you to lose volume, which causes you to turn up, which causes clipping, etc, etc.[/quote]

Depends on what we're talking about.

What youre talking about Sade is simply not having enough power. Doesnt really have much to do with the cab, outside of the fact that a more efficient cab would help. In a case like that, the fact of the matter is that no matter what cab youre hooked up to, not enough clean power is not enough clean power.



Sending less than the cabs rating to it, however, is fine. Does absolutely nothing to the cab, except maybe put less wear and tear on the cones than matching its rating. Were this not true, you could only ever play at one volume, since turning the volume down sends less wattage to the speaker.

IMHO, the real danger in using a cab with higher rating than the head is that you might think that no matter how much it clips or distorts you can't hurt the speakers. Clipped signals will damage your speakers no matter how big or small the amp is.

So if you run a 50 watt head into a 400 watt cab, and keep it clean, you'll be fine. But many people will just keep turning it louder, even though it sounds like crap, and end up blowing speakers.

Edit:
And, um, what LewsTherin said...

The cab isn't what suffers directly. The head will clip because the cab is rater higher than the head. This clipping will in turn, damage the cab. It doesn't matter how you look at it, underpowering a cab will cause, or has a high potential to cause clipping.

If you're just not turning up enough to experience any clipping, then it's pretty pointless to have the cab in the first place.

[QUOTE=SoM]IMHO, the real danger in using a cab with higher rating than the head is that you might think that no matter how much it clips or distorts you can't hurt the speakers. Clipped signals will damage your speakers no matter how big or small the amp is.

So if you run a 50 watt head into a 400 watt cab, and keep it clean, you'll be fine. But many people will just keep turning it louder, even though it sounds like crap, and end up blowing speakers.[/QUOTE]

There's another part of the vicious cycle of underpowering.

[QUOTE=Sade]The cab isn't what suffers directly. The head will clip because the cab is rater higher than the head...[/QUOTE]
This is a common misconception. The head cannot tell what the power capability of the speaker is. Only the load (measure in ohms).

[quote=SoM]This is a common misconception. The head cannot tell what the power capability of the speaker is. Only the load (measure in ohms).[/quote]


I was just about to say that, actually.

Like I said before, the cab has nothing to do with underpowering, outside of the fact that with a higher efficiency cab could do more with less power. Problems with DC clipping from your poweramp means its time for a more powerful poweramp.

[QUOTE=SoM]This is a common misconception. The head cannot tell what the power capability of the speaker is. Only the load (measure in ohms).[/QUOTE]

Wait, we wern't talking about consciously aware pieces of machinery, here?

It's a moot-point. If the head has a lower wattage than the rating of the cab, chances are there's going to be clipping at high volumes. That's the point, all technicality aside.

[QUOTE=LewsTherin]I was just about to say that, actually.

Like I said before, the cab has nothing to do with underpowering, outside of the fact that with a higher efficiency cab could do more with less power. Problems with DC clipping from your poweramp means its time for a more powerful poweramp.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Which would solve the "underpowering" issue and the "clipping" issue.

[quote=Sade]Wait, we wern't talking about consciously aware pieces of machinery, here?

It's a moot-point. If the head has a lower wattage than the rating of the cab, chances are there's going to be clipping at high volumes. That's the point, all technicality aside.[/quote]


And chances are, if you hook one of those 5,000W QSC poweramps up to a Marshall 1960A cab loaded with Vintage 30s, and crank it up all the way, youll still have poweramp clipping.

The cab has nothing to do with it.

[QUOTE=LewsTherin]And chances are, if you hook one of those 5,000W QSC poweramps up to a Marshall 1960A cab loaded with Vintage 30s, and crank it up all the way, youll still have poweramp clipping.

The cab has nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE]

Right. The lack of power is the problem. This thread is about cabs, not power amps. I'm simply reiterating a point that if you don't have enough power where you have to constantly turn up to be heard, then get more. Otherwise, be ready for some clipping.

Overpowering a cab, however; will leave you lots of headroom, and more volume. (depending of course on how much power you actually have, and considering the fact that more power does not necessarily mean more volume.) However, you also run the risk of damaging your speakers this way, as well.

Either way, more power=not bad.

[QUOTE=Sade]Wait, we wern't talking about consciously aware pieces of machinery, here?...[/QUOTE]
Lol, yeah I guess I worded that a little oddly. I mean that from the perspective of the amp the power rating of the speaker makes no difference. The amp "sees" the same load regardless of the speaker's power handling capability.

Edit:
And if you turn it up enough to blow the speaker, it also would blow any lower powered speaker too...

[quote=Sade]Right. The lack of power is the problem. This thread is about cabs, not power amps. I'm simply reiterating a point that if you don't have enough power where you have to constantly turn up to be heard, then get more. Otherwise, be ready for some clipping.

Overpowering a cab, however; will leave you lots of headroom, and more volume. (depending of course on how much power you actually have, and considering the fact that more power does not necessarily mean more volume.) However, you also run the risk of damaging your speakers this way, as well.

Either way, more power=not bad.[/quote]

I know this thread is about cabs. But you, not I, made it about poweramp power.


And your right, there is no such thing as too much clean power. Unless, of course, youre a blues guitarist.

[QUOTE=SoM]Lol, yeah I guess I worded that a little oddly. I mean that from the perspective of the amp the power rating of the speaker makes no difference. The amp "sees" the same load regardless of the speaker's power handling capability.[/QUOTE]

I realize this. I was simply using the cab as a way for the threadstarter to understand the need for headroom and sufficient wattage.

You're basically argueing the same point as I am.

[quote=SoM]
And if you turn it up enough to blow the speaker, it also would blow any lower powered speaker too...[/quote]


sssh, old man. thats besides the point. besides, he didnt seem to notice....:thumb:

[quote=Sade]I realize this. I was simply using the cab as a way for the threadstarter to understand the need for headroom and sufficient wattage.

You're basically argueing the same point as I am.[/quote]


True, we're mostly just arguing about the way you put your point forward. You made it sound like headroom is a function of cab power handling, which its not.

[QUOTE=LewsTherin]I know this thread is about cabs. But you, not I, made it about poweramp power.


And your right, there is no such thing as too much clean power. Unless, of course, youre a blues guitarist.[/QUOTE]

I suppose you're right. :lol:

That's the point I so often try to make. Get more power. I realize completely the cab's power rating capacity isn't registered by the power amp section of any amplifier. That's pretty much a given. However, it's never good to have to turn up constantly to 9/10 to be heard, which is so often the case when the cab's power rating isn't met by the poweramp.

Again, not saying that the cab's power rating has anything to actually do with the poweramp, but rather simply "shows" whoever we're talking about that they need more power.

So...reccomendations?

The head gives out
600W @ 8 ohms
800W @ 4 ohms
600W @ 2 ohms

Im looking for 8 ohm cabs, preferably 4x10 and 2x12, as I said before.

[quote=Sade]I suppose you're right. :lol:

That's the point I so often try to make. Get more power. I realize completely the cab's power rating capacity isn't registered by the power amp section of any amplifier. That's pretty much a given. However, it's never good to have to turn up constantly to 9/10 to be heard, which is so often the case when the cab's power rating isn't met by the poweramp.[/quote]


Right. I was at a show friday, and for one band that was playing the limiter LED on the bassists amp was on about 3/4 of the time. I cringed every time I saw it go off.

So, moral of this story:

[SIZE=4]You can't underpower a cab. In fact, speakers like not getting that much wattage. It makes the little buggers happy.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]Anyway, you can [I]never [/I]have enough clean amplifier power. More power = teh secks. You can always turn it down, but the knob [I]does [/I]only go up to 10*. And it shouldnt go past 6 or 7, really.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][size=2]*unless its a Fender, a lot of those go up to 12 for some reason[/size][/SIZE]

[QUOTE=bassistuvdoom731]So...reccomendations?

The head gives out
600W @ 8 ohms
800W @ 4 ohms
600W @ 2 ohms

Im looking for 8 ohm cabs, preferably 4x10 and 2x12, as I said before.[/QUOTE]

800W @ 4 ohms and 600 @ 2? That's...interesting.

[quote=bassistuvdoom731]So...reccomendations?

The head gives out
600W @ 8 ohms
800W @ 4 ohms
600W @ 2 ohms

Im looking for 8 ohm cabs, preferably 4x10 and 2x12, as I said before.[/quote]


Avatar.

[QUOTE=LewsTherin]Right. I was at a show friday, and for one band that was playing the limiter LED on the bassists amp was on about 3/4 of the time. I cringed every time I saw it go off.

So, moral of this story:

[SIZE=4]You can't underpower a cab. In fact, speakers like not getting that much wattage. It makes the little buggers happy.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Anyway, you can [I]never [/I]have enough clean amplifier power. More power = teh secks. You can always turn it down, but the knob [I]does [/I]only go up to 10. And it shouldnt go past 6 or 7, really.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Thank you for summarizing the point I believe three people attempted to make in different ways. Bahaha.

[quote=Sade]800W @ 4 ohms and 600 @ 2? That's...interesting.[/quote]

perhaps he missed a digit? because that [I]would [/I]be a marvel of modern technology :lol:

[quote=Sade]Thank you for summarizing the point I believe three people attempted to make in different ways. Bahaha.[/quote]


No problem.

[QUOTE=LewsTherin]Avatar.[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

If you're putting out 800 watts at 4 ohms through a couple of 4x10s, you won't have much trouble being heard.

Avatar is fine.

[QUOTE=Sade]800W @ 4 ohms and 600 @ 2? That's...interesting.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I said...And lews, I was considering avatar, but the cabs i found were all too powerful, thus this thread.:)

[quote=bassistuvdoom731]Thats what I said...And lews, I was considering avatar, but the cabs i found were all too powerful, thus this thread.:)[/quote]


Like we all finally got around to saying, it won't be a problem. Avatars are pretty efficient, and with that poweramp, you should be all set on volume.

[QUOTE=bassistuvdoom731]Thats what I said...And lews, I was considering avatar, but the cabs i found were all too powerful, thus this thread.:)[/QUOTE]

Realize that cabs don't actually have any power at all. It's simply a rating of how much they "generally" can handle. It's often a bunch of crap, anyways. Plus, the amp doesn't really care about the cab's rating, as was mentioned earlier.

Avatar is fine.