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The Profit of Maine 05-24-2006 08:19 AM

Beat your kids!
 
I've been thinking lately that corporal punishment needs to be reinstituted in schools and that a little slapping around of your kid is a good thing in moderation. First off, Corporal punishment is the infliction of pain intended as correction or punishment. Maybe I'm generalizing this too much, but the kids now in Middle and High school in America (and I think this has applied to England for at least ten years with "hoodlums" and whatnot) have lost all respect for their elders. Kids think it's hilarious when they go around in gangs and beat up lone people (stupid chavs) or curse out their teacher for some stupid reason or other. I think we need to remind them of their own mortality.

When I say "we," I of course only mean DBoon, but still, kids are getting more and more defiant for the dumbest reasons nowadays. I certainly have no way of knowing if it's only nowadays, but that's in your court to argue against me. But I sincerely believe that the teenage trust in their own immortality has made them unnecessarily disrespectful to their elders on multiple levels. If they were reminded of the physical power their elders have then social nuances and its hierarchy would be implied.

I haven't researched this, but you can at [url]www.corpun.com[/url] and probably other sites.

What do you think?

Atomic Rain 05-24-2006 08:31 AM

I think that it's very dangerous because it can absolutely hammer a viewpoint into a child and basically what if you hammer the wrong viewpoint into them? You're kinda presuming that you're all correct for wanting children to srtand in a line and only speak when they're spoken to, but they think that school is irrelevant to them, that they've no hope in the future and that the state and society has let them down.

I don't agree iwth either of those viewpoints, but do you understand what I'm saying?

denboy 05-24-2006 08:35 AM

So you're advocating using violence to teach kids to respect their elders?.. oh yeah, that'll work

ringworm 05-24-2006 08:35 AM

I agree, a little *** whipping every now & then is needed.
Kids are getting more & more ignorant & defiant these days because of lack of discipline, plain & simple. Time out & expulsion or detention clearly aren't enough.

But the only problem is, the parents these days are just as ignorant & most wouldn't allow "the paddle" to be re-instituted because of a "stranger" inflicting pain to their child. It's been debated here a few times & most parents don't won't anybody else touching thier child because of fear of abuse from some crazy teacher.

But yeah, give em the paddle!!!

The Profit of Maine 05-24-2006 08:49 AM

[QUOTE=Atomic Rain]I think that it's very dangerous because it can absolutely hammer a viewpoint into a child and basically what if you hammer the wrong viewpoint into them? You're kinda presuming that you're all correct for wanting children to srtand in a line and only speak when they're spoken to, but they think that school is irrelevant to them, that they've no hope in the future and that the state and society has let them down.

I don't agree iwth either of those viewpoints, but do you understand what I'm saying?[/QUOTE]
It'd help if you expanded on it a little. But this is part joking and part "with parental knowledge."

I think it used to work and that it certainly would now after a short while, giving the stupid rebellious phase (that now sets in at ten instead of fifteen) a few years to calm down.



As a camp counselor, it pisses me off that a kid can get away with anything and all they get is a slap on the wrist. They can beat the hell out of another camper, but hey, they didn't want to be there anyway! And parents are so spastic about someone hurting their kid when their kid is ready to throw a punch on a whim. (I've had a camper attack me and all I could do was restrain the little fu[SIZE="2"]c[/SIZE]ker.)

Stevie 05-24-2006 08:55 AM

Yeah, sure, we need to scare kids into submission for life.

Dannyboy15 05-24-2006 08:59 AM

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]So you're advocating using violence to teach kids to respect their elders?.. oh yeah, that'll work[/QUOTE]

It has worked in society up until those hippies started raising killiers and junkies.

denboy 05-24-2006 09:13 AM

No.. It really hasn't

Edit: wait.. was that sarcasm?

Jude 05-24-2006 09:14 AM

What basis do you have for thinking that corporal punishment has even a small causational relationship to better behavior and lower crime? Actual empirical evidence please, not just "back in the day people slapped their kids around and their was no crime" which is nonsense and not even true.

Chrysostom 05-24-2006 09:17 AM

It did absolutely no one any harm in the 50s.

The Profit of Maine 05-24-2006 09:39 AM

[QUOTE=Jude]What basis do you have for thinking that corporal punishment has even a small causational relationship to better behavior and lower crime? Actual empirical evidence please, not just "back in the day people slapped their kids around and their was no crime" which is nonsense and not even true.[/QUOTE]
With how taboo real violence is at present, there is no way to show empirical evidence. How would I be able to prove anything with the laws as they are?

Of course there are tons of differences between the 50's/60's and now. More leisure time, changes in media and acceptable subjects, and tons of things that could also have an effect. The only thing I have to support this theory is my camp experience, where in the past ten years counselors have gone from being able to play fight with campers to a necessary shoulder squeeze instead of a hug. In the last ten years campers have gone from reverence and respect to violence and defiance. Most of the kids who perform the latter may have done so anyway no matter the circumstance, but in their lives of little parental supervision and lack of time to pay attention, I think a little rough-housing would do them good.

DBoons Ghost 05-24-2006 09:46 AM

That's moronic. It solved nothing then and will solve nothing now. You know what will? Decent parenting. It's not even something that requires some greater higher form of education. It's simply a matter of wanting to be somewhat involved in your child's life.


Thats all.

And I got beatings from both parents and teachers and it was the least helpful thing I can recall from those years. All it made me do was hate catholicism and hate my parents for not parenting. Everything was a beating. It didn't help at all.

I know you're half kidding. However, it's not anyone's responsibility but the parents to properly discipline and educate your child on matters of social responsibility. Respect for elders should come naturally, and kids who are decidedly going the "hoodlum" route are falling prey to MTV and the culture they are selling. It's up to parents to work those kids' brains otherwise, and it's not happening.


As a parent, I think beatings are retarded. As a child who was both beaten by parents and teachers alike, I can promise you it changed nothing. In fact, as stated, it made it worse.

denboy 05-24-2006 09:53 AM

Thank you DBoon, for saying what I tried to, a little more eloquently

coheneran 05-24-2006 09:54 AM

[QUOTE=The Profit of Maine]I think it used to work and that it certainly would now after a short while, giving the stupid rebellious phase (that now sets in at ten instead of fifteen) a few years to calm down.[/QUOTE]

How do you know it used to work? Because sixty years ago kids were beaten as a rule and also respected their elders means nothing. It's like that statistic that says TB rates went down steadily after the discovery of a vaccine in the early twentieth century, when in fact if you put the rates of TB going down against the rates of better housing quality and cleaner living conditions (which were going up just as steadily) you can see it could also be put down to better living conditions.

The Profit of Maine 05-24-2006 10:14 AM

Thanks, DBoon :)

dei 05-24-2006 10:17 AM

No one ever hit me and now I shout at people on the internet.

DBoon pretty much said everything I was going to say. He hacked my computer, and copied and pasted.

Jharaski 05-24-2006 10:26 AM

[QUOTE=DBoon's Ghost]That's moronic. It solved nothing then and will solve nothing now. You know what will? Decent parenting. It's not even something that requires some greater higher form of education. It's simply a matter of wanting to be somewhat involved in your child's life.


Thats all.

And I got beatings from both parents and teachers and it was the least helpful thing I can recall from those years. All it made me do was hate catholicism and hate my parents for not parenting. Everything was a beating. It didn't help at all.

I know you're half kidding. However, it's not anyone's responsibility but the parents to properly discipline and educate your child on matters of social responsibility. Respect for elders should come naturally, and kids who are decidedly going the "hoodlum" route are falling prey to MTV and the culture they are selling. It's up to parents to work those kids' brains otherwise, and it's not happening.


As a parent, I think beatings are retarded. As a child who was both beaten by parents and teachers alike, I can promise you it changed nothing. In fact, as stated, it made it worse.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he means beating girls for accidently letting their skirts go too high or beating a guy for coughing in the middle of a test, or whatever ridiculous things Catholic school beats you for. Just kids who are plain defiant jerks.

thedeadwalk! 05-24-2006 10:27 AM

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]I don't think he means beating girls for accidently letting their skirts go too high or beating a guy for coughing in the middle of a test, or whatever ridiculous things Catholic school beats you for. Just kids who are plain defiant jerks.[/QUOTE]
And these defiant jerks more than likely come from abusive or neglectful parents.

Jharaski 05-24-2006 10:30 AM

[QUOTE=thedeadwalk!]And these defiant jerks more than likely come from abusive or neglectful parents.[/QUOTE]

Not always. My brother in law knew this family and the kid was a rotten spoied brat. He was babysitting him once, and the kid was being very rude and nasty, so he hit him WHAM right across the face. That kid never acted out again, even his parents said so. They asked him what he did to make it stop, and he told them.. the mom flipped, but the dad was happy SOMEONE did it.

DBoons Ghost 05-24-2006 10:38 AM

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]I don't think he means beating girls for accidently letting their skirts go too high or beating a guy for coughing in the middle of a test, or whatever ridiculous things Catholic school beats you for. Just kids who are plain defiant jerks.[/QUOTE]

Define for us "defiance" and from what social malfunction it stems from and therein lies your answer. Lack of attention? My defiance in school and at home came from lots of stuff, most of which is very personal to me, but there it is all the same. I was a violent rude obnoxious little bastard in both grammar school and high school. I had to learn for myself though, and lucky for me it was early enough to make a change. I didn't get smacked for coughing or dress codes though. That much I can tell you.

It's a double edged sword if you look too deeply into it. Both parents working their butts off trying to make a better life for themselves and their families means less hands on parenting. You cannot rely on your local government and local community to parent for you, like it used to be in the old days. Now? If an adult decides to discipline a child in the community he gets sued, or shot by the kid. No one wants to die over someone else's child. Nor get sued. It aint worth it anymore. Everyone's lookin for that quick cash in. Or some other form of recognition.

Things are out of hand though. Too many kids are throwing their lives away just to get a rep. I've never seen so many young people so willing to throw their lives away simply so they can be remembered for some idiotic reputation or some form of respect or street cred. Kids want to get shot. They want scars. They want to get killed and have other people remember them as a thug or rough kid. That's insane, but that's what it's come to.

FVG27 05-24-2006 10:54 AM

The kids that are starting to appear in today's society in the last couple of years are awful. I'm not sure if it's the same in the states but their attitude and outlook on life is appauling(sp?). They get off on making other people's lives miserable and have no respect for anyone. It's absolutely disgusting. I've spoken to loads of teachers about it at my school and they've said that the kids in the past couple of years have been the worst they've ever seen. These kids that just have no respect need something to get them in their place. They have no fear of what will happen to them if they do something wrong and they know they can get away with everything. Some of them need to be put in their place.

Jharaski 05-24-2006 11:06 AM

[QUOTE=DBoon's Ghost]Define for us "defiance" and from what social malfunction it stems from and therein lies your answer. Lack of attention? My defiance in school and at home came from lots of stuff, most of which is very personal to me, but there it is all the same. I was a violent rude obnoxious little bastard in both grammar school and high school. I had to learn for myself though, and lucky for me it was early enough to make a change. I didn't get smacked for coughing or dress codes though. That much I can tell you.

It's a double edged sword if you look too deeply into it. Both parents working their butts off trying to make a better life for themselves and their families means less hands on parenting. You cannot rely on your local government and local community to parent for you, like it used to be in the old days. Now? If an adult decides to discipline a child in the community he gets sued, or shot by the kid. No one wants to die over someone else's child. Nor get sued. It aint worth it anymore. Everyone's lookin for that quick cash in. Or some other form of recognition.

Things are out of hand though. Too many kids are throwing their lives away just to get a rep. I've never seen so many young people so willing to throw their lives away simply so they can be remembered for some idiotic reputation or some form of respect or street cred. Kids want to get shot. They want scars. They want to get killed and have other people remember them as a thug or rough kid. That's insane, but that's what it's come to.[/QUOTE]

Of course. I do understand that viewpoint. But there is no perfect system. I just think that all in all, things will be better. Getting hit is what kept me in line when I was a little kid.

DBoons Ghost 05-24-2006 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]Of course. I do understand that viewpoint. But there is no perfect system. I just think that all in all, things will be better. Getting hit is what kept me in line when I was a little kid.[/QUOTE]

If getting hit is what kept you in line, will you use the same pratice on your children?

If so, think of how they will come to understand conflict resolution. Within their social circles and as well, when they get older and find themselves in situations which will require some communication to resolve as oppsoed to beating the crap out of someone.

See my point?

If we end the ignorance of physical discipline, we can start to build a better world, simply by teaching our children how to resolve conflict without beating the crap out of everyone we see. That will end a great deal of violence in our society. Though, in the same token, less kids are raising their hands to one another and simply opt to shoot that person instead.

So.. What the hell do I know.

Jharaski 05-24-2006 12:43 PM

[QUOTE=DBoon's Ghost]If getting hit is what kept you in line, will you use the same pratice on your children?

If so, think of how they will come to understand conflict resolution. Within their social circles and as well, when they get older and find themselves in situations which will require some communication to resolve as oppsoed to beating the crap out of someone.

See my point?

If we end the ignorance of physical discipline, we can start to build a better world, simply by teaching our children how to resolve conflict without beating the crap out of everyone we see. That will end a great deal of violence in our society. Though, in the same token, less kids are raising their hands to one another and simply opt to shoot that person instead.

So.. What the hell do I know.[/QUOTE]

I will absolutely hit my kids. Everyone I know who was hit turned out great. It's obviously not going to be the first thing I do. I'm not going to be like "omg you're up 30 minutes past bedtime" and smack. It's when they refuse to listen that they will get hit. That doesn't mean you're teaching them violence. It just means you're showing them who's in charge. I understood that concept even when I was a little kid. I never once raised my fist against another kid.

FVG27 05-24-2006 01:03 PM

[QUOTE=DBoon's Ghost]If getting hit is what kept you in line, will you use the same pratice on your children?

If so, think of how they will come to understand conflict resolution. Within their social circles and as well, when they get older and find themselves in situations which will require some communication to resolve as oppsoed to beating the crap out of someone.

See my point?

If we end the ignorance of physical discipline, we can start to build a better world, simply by teaching our children how to resolve conflict without beating the crap out of everyone we see. That will end a great deal of violence in our society. Though, in the same token, less kids are raising their hands to one another and simply opt to shoot that person instead.

So.. What the hell do I know.[/QUOTE]
I got hit as a kid but I don't use violence to solve problems and nither do my friends that were hit. I had an argument with a few girls once about it, they were never smacked as kids and the amount of fights they've been in is unbelievable. As a child it was something to fear- I would get punished if I did something wrong. The fear of get a smacked hand stopped me doing wrong rather than having TV banned for a week. It hasn't done me harm.

nowhesingsnowhesobs 05-24-2006 01:11 PM

[QUOTE]I will absolutely hit my kids. Everyone I know who was hit turned out great. It's obviously not going to be the first thing I do. I'm not going to be like "omg you're up 30 minutes past bedtime" and smack. It's when they refuse to listen that they will get hit. That doesn't mean you're teaching them violence. It just means you're showing them who's in charge. I understood that concept even when I was a little kid. I never once raised my fist against another kid.[/QUOTE]In short, you're a moron.

Doesn't it occur to you that your personal observations might be suspect?

DBoons Ghost 05-24-2006 01:12 PM

I'm glad it worked out to your benefit.

I sorta feel the same way both of you do. I wasn't abused as a child in either school or at home. I got beatings when I deserved them. It hasn't made me a monster or anything.

Violence tends to beget violence though. Just because a select few of us who were "properly" disciplined physically understood the hows and whys doesn't mean the few that don't aren't gonna come out of an abusive household ok.

Thats what I suppose I was trying to say.

I tend to justify the really harsh beatings that way, but he didn't have to beat. A good smack is all you really need. There were times when I didn't deserve the beating I got, but I took it. It wasn't just me though. Whenever my mom did something he didn't like, he gave her the same.

So, I dunno.

Jharaski 05-24-2006 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=nowhesingsnowhesobs]In short, you're a moron.

Doesn't it occur to you that your personal observations might be suspect?[/QUOTE]

Uh kids need discipline. And getting hit is sometimes the only way to do it. Hitting =/= abuse. There's a difference between abusing your kids, such as by hitting them for accidently dropping the dishes, and hitting them for intentionally violating a rule.

Jharaski 05-24-2006 01:41 PM

[QUOTE=DBoon's Ghost]I'm glad it worked out to your benefit.

I sorta feel the same way both of you do. I wasn't abused as a child in either school or at home. I got beatings when I deserved them. It hasn't made me a monster or anything.

Violence tends to beget violence though. Just because a select few of us who were "properly" disciplined physically understood the hows and whys doesn't mean the few that don't aren't gonna come out of an abusive household ok.

Thats what I suppose I was trying to say.

I tend to justify the really harsh beatings that way, but he didn't have to beat. A good smack is all you really need. There were times when I didn't deserve the beating I got, but I took it. It wasn't just me though. Whenever my mom did something he didn't like, he gave her the same.

So, I dunno.[/QUOTE]

I think it's the other way around. MOST who are disciplined with being hit understand it and turn out ok. As I said, there's a difference between abuse and hitting.

RouteOne 05-24-2006 02:02 PM

Sometimes kids need a little slap on the butt. It does no harm when in moderation.


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