is it really necessary for there to be two mics? i have an sm57 that i'm gonna mic with. can i track rhythms with it, then do the double track with the same mic or will that sound weird?

[quote=The Transporter;17830637]is it really necessary for there to be two mics? i have an sm57 that i'm gonna mic with. can i track rhythms with it, then do the double track with the same mic or will that sound weird?[/quote]

I don't know why it would sound "weird", if anything it'll sound pretty consistent with the first take, since the only real differences will be the nuances of your playing.

I outlined the way I like to do things largely because I like having 2 separate cuts with different timbres, which allows me to blend them into a desirable tone however I like later. I also like that I can probably [I]avoid[/I] the extra time and talent required for a good double-tracking procedure by having multiple timbres available. It's a different, more mechanical way of getting a "different sounding" take to emulate the double-tracking method. In my opinion, the nuances between takes usually do make the two tracks distinct from each other, but in a different way than the multi-timbre method.

[QUOTE=The Transporter;17830637]is it really necessary for there to be two mics? i have an sm57 that i'm gonna mic with. can i track rhythms with it, then do the double track with the same mic or will that sound weird?[/QUOTE]

when a mic colors a sound its eqing it a bit, too much color of the same mic and you're going to have a hard time mixing. Using a bunch of different mics with the right req responses you won't have to do as much eq surgery. personally i think it sounds better when you use mics or a console's electronics to color the sound on the way in. I still don't know enough about gear to really put together a nice mic/ preamp combo and not have to mix it really hard in post... but it's getting there

well see, my plan is to hook my jsx up to a mesa 4x12, mic it with the sm57 and get all my tracks down.

i was gonna do the same for my other guitarist only he uses a krank (lol)

do you think maybe it'd be best to do the double track with the opposite amp hooked up?

umm, don't use the krank? try using different guitars and different channels for each guitar player on that jsx and it doesn't hurt to use a 57, but if you're already micing up the drums with a bunch of 57's there's a lot more more signal at around 8k

for example, if both your guitars are mic'd up by a 57 both of their inherent eq's are goign to look like this:
[img]http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/studio-microphones/images/freq.jpg[/img]
and if you mic'd up the drums with that same mic, those are going to be the same way, so already you've got a big a[SIZE="2"]s[/SIZE]s boost in the 8k range

now say if you use a 57 with a pr-20
[img]http://www.heilsound.com/pro/products/pr20/pr20-frequency.jpg[/img]

you'll see the pr-20 cuts that same frequency that the 57 boosts and boosts right there the 57 cuts. even if your tone and guitar is exactly the same they'll fit together better in a mix. but if your toms and snare were also mic'd up with a 57 i'd avoid both of these mics completely OR compensate by shelfing 2k and bringing it down 0.5 or 1db on either both the guitars or snare etc, either way you're going to be doing eq surgery

if it were me i'd never let an engi use 57's on drums it makes everything sound super tinny and thin... ESPECIALLY on toms, i'd rather have that low end and cut it myself than have a mic do it and with toms you WANT that lower end and only really cut at around 500hz

ps i'm not referring to the red line for the pr-20 freq chart... i'm refering to the blue line in comparison with the sm57 freq chart, though it might not be a bad idea to try inverting the phase of one of your guitar mics ;)

the krank isnt bad. it's like one of those mini head ones. not sure what flavor edit:
[IMG]http://www.krankamps.com/wp-content/uploads/krank_revjrpro50.jpg[/IMG]

also, drums are gonna be all midi sequenced into Superior 2.0 with Metal Foundry add-on.

but what i'm gathering from you is to: mic the cab with sm57, record once playing with my Eclipse-II, then do another take of the track using my Xtone.

do the same thing for other guitarist only he will be using krank instead of jsx. also he will use an EC-1000 and a Heritage Les Paul (they were who used to make gibsons before their QC went to ****)

i'm planning on doing this all at home FYI. i have one mic input, that's it. (line6 toneport lol)

what happened to those recordings you did when i was in town?

[quote=Xomblies;17831301]what happened to those recordings you did when i was in town?[/quote]
basically we had Saturday, Sunday, and Monday to do three songs. We finished drums/bass for 4 songs. (we just did live takes where only drums and bass were recorded). That took up all of Saturday. Sunday, my other guitarist went first. It took him forever to track the first song due to a sweeping line, he eventually knocked everything out. I had two hours to finish all three of my tracks. Basically I one-taked all of my tracks. I had to punch in a few notes here and there. It wasn't flawless, but it was as good as I could do in the time we had. Then the vocalist did all his stuff on Monday morning, which mornings don't really give you time to have your vocal chords warm, so they didn't turn out the best (not completely bad though). And we basically had half a day to do mixing and what not. I got one song sounding pretty good and the other two are just so-so. (one you could barely hear guitars on) None of them had that "studio" polish. It definitely just sounds like a demo.

tl;dr: I feel like the quality we got wasn't worth the $1200ish we payed. I think with a little practice I can do better on my own. Basically recording costs a **** ton, and none of us have that kind of money. I have a few friends who are going to help me with the "home recording process".

My plan is to tab everything out in guitar pro, export midi drums, import them into cubase 5, then use the Superior 2.0 with Metal Foundry addon for my drum vsti. After that, DI the bass lines. Once bass and drums are good, do one guitar, double track as necessary, then do the other. I'll then work on getting the mix a little better by EQing and what not. I haven't decided if i'm gonna mic the amps or use line6 modeling for guitars. Maybe both...dunno

Vocals are gonna take longer because i need to convince my singer to stop yelling so much. At a minimum i want it to be 75% singing. I'll sit down with him and help him tweak melodies and what not.

help me out here you guys

what are those square dynamic mics called? they're square and kinda flat, direction is perpendicular to cable, typically used for guitar amps

okay nm i think they're just called guitar microphones, or "cab" microphones

though i really prefer the way they sound as a general dynamic mic

it's a senheiser e609

[QUOTE=The Transporter;17832400]basically we had Saturday, Sunday, and Monday to do three songs. We finished drums/bass for 4 songs. (we just did live takes where only drums and bass were recorded). That took up all of Saturday. Sunday, my other guitarist went first. It took him forever to track the first song due to a sweeping line, he eventually knocked everything out. I had two hours to finish all three of my tracks. Basically I one-taked all of my tracks. I had to punch in a few notes here and there. It wasn't flawless, but it was as good as I could do in the time we had. Then the vocalist did all his stuff on Monday morning, which mornings don't really give you time to have your vocal chords warm, so they didn't turn out the best (not completely bad though). And we basically had half a day to do mixing and what not. I got one song sounding pretty good and the other two are just so-so. (one you could barely hear guitars on) None of them had that "studio" polish. It definitely just sounds like a demo.

tl;dr: I feel like the quality we got wasn't worth the $1200ish we payed. I think with a little practice I can do better on my own. Basically recording costs a **** ton, and none of us have that kind of money. I have a few friends who are going to help me with the "home recording process".

My plan is to tab everything out in guitar pro, export midi drums, import them into cubase 5, then use the Superior 2.0 with Metal Foundry addon for my drum vsti. After that, DI the bass lines. Once bass and drums are good, do one guitar, double track as necessary, then do the other. I'll then work on getting the mix a little better by EQing and what not. I haven't decided if i'm gonna mic the amps or use line6 modeling for guitars. Maybe both...dunno

Vocals are gonna take longer because i need to convince my singer to stop yelling so much. At a minimum i want it to be 75% singing. I'll sit down with him and help him tweak melodies and what not.[/QUOTE]

keep the drums you did... re track everything else

[quote=Xomblies;17836956]keep the drums you did... re track everything else[/quote]
snare tone was reminiscent of st. anger

also, question, how do you guy do effects like delay when recording? do you just run them through your amp and mic the cab or do you do them in your DAW? if doing the former, do you set it up to tap tempo to the beat or what? please elaborate as much as possible, not just on the questions i asked

i wouldn't give up on those recordings right away man, how do the overheads sound? wanna send me the session files? you tha homie, i'd hook it up sick :)

for fx it's a mix of both, the gear i have i try to keep analog, but rather than running it through my rig i use my delay etc as outboard gear with two Di boxen, one to change the impedance from line level to instrument, then from instrument level back to line level. i just like the way boss pedals color the sound. does that make sense? i have one main guitar track and then my boss delay is a secondary track underneath the main one. for things like flange or phase, keep it in the box

back to what i was saying, keep the real drums, i can fix them up for you and you'll **** bricks k? just send me the session files or audio stems of each recording, then you can do guitars, make sure you give me a Di track, i'd be able to reamp them for you sound cool?

not sure i understand what you mean by "overheads". the tracks don't sound bad per se, but it seems like everything is fighting for a place in the mix.

i'll try to get a copy of the protools session from my drummer at practice tonight. the only problem is I don't have a protools rig, so i may need you to bounce me back the drum tracks as raw audio so i can do the stuff in cubase.

btw thx :-)

the overhead mics on teh dramz is what i mean,

and don't worry i'll print out audio so all you have to do is change the levels

[quote=Xomblies;17853510]the overhead mics on teh dramz is what i mean,

and don't worry i'll print out audio so all you have to do is change the levels[/quote]
that's what i figured you meant. drums sound pretty decent except the snare is terrible. it's seriously straight out of st. anger. I'm sure they still need EQing and compressing and what not, but they sound alright to me other than the snare.

[QUOTE=The Transporter;17853514]that's what i figured you meant. drums sound pretty decent except the snare is terrible. it's seriously straight out of st. anger. I'm sure they still need EQing and compressing and what not, but they sound alright to me other than the snare.[/QUOTE]

i'll do some good work to your drums, you won't even recognize them when you get them back, all you'd have to do is track guitars, bass n vox and change the levels

sweet, thanks man.

btw, let me know when you want to head out this way and so we can book a show with a bunch of bands

fairly soon, though the next time i come out that way it'll most likely be on tour, i'll see what i can work out with the booking agent for the show we play out there so you kids can get on... that is... if everything goes to plan...

I like using Cakewalk Sonar 7.. you know you could use any virtual amplifier like Guitar Rig, Peavey Revalver, Studio Devil (it rocks). They sound really cool and you can get really pro tones. You can also use VSTi which are softwares that basically make midi sound real :P so you write down things in midi, and then this softwares will make the midi sound very very real. I like using EzDrummer to compose drums, Spectrasonic Trilogy for Bass, B4 by native instruments for hammond, and many others. Try to get a nice sound card, e.g. a Fast Track by M-audio could work very well. Emu sound cards are cheaper and also sound great.

i've yet to try trilogy, how is it?

my drummer is such a n00b, he can't find the master tracks

man, you best find them son, it won't matter if the rest of the recordings are incrediblalls if the drums sound like programmed dramz. it's the most important part of a recording (not a band)

Iv decided im buying a pod, so my question is this. Can i use it as a soundcard for recording into studio software on my computer (cubase 5) or would i have to buy a seperate interface to run the pod through?

Also, what modelling software would you guys reccomend for super awesome tonez? I know some guys on here use Axe FX to get their guitar sounds but what are some other options?

Cheers

[url]http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17818948&postcount=20[/url]

quoting yourself is a bit cold when you could have spent the same amount of time replying with a unique response...

benfan, you can technically use any sound card to get an audio signal into your computer. the pod is line level, so you'd use the "line" input on the card with the appropriate 1/4 inch to 1/8 inch converter.

Although this is easily possible to accomplish i wouldn't recommend such a set up. Good audio comes from preamps, quality A/D and D/A converters (a= analog, d= digital). Along with good mics (or the right mics rather) good cables, good instruments, good amplifiers. I would also strongly advise not using the pod, i once used one myself to record guitar and as cool as it may sound by itself... in a mix that tone requires a lot of eq surgery. Then again, the necessity for high grade audio equipment is highly subjective to what you want to do... are you looking to just get ideas out or are you trying to get the tone you hear on a high production album?

I think it's lazy not reading my posts that I've written in the same topic. It's even on the first page!
I linked to tons of free popular modelling software for guitars in that post. Not much has changed since that post, perhaps some new amps especially from Lepou (That sounds great). But I linked to his site so he could've probably figure it out. Most of them sounds much better than pod, but it demands that he can record DI, witch he can with the pod.

Well this thread was old so i had to google search it and then skipped to the last so i could bump it. Bitchez.

Xomblies - Cheers for the insight. Im planning on recording the guitars for my band and working on an E.P. We both use high watt tube heads so its hard to find anywhere to crank them to get them sounding sweet. I was planning on doing it all using a pod and equipment geared for that kind of thing. Iv read a **** tonne of stuff Bulb posted about recording Periphery's album so im gonna give it a try.
Im just a clown at the minute who doesnt really know much about this side of recording.

i'd be careful with using only a pod. Maybe use a livewire di box, one going to the pod, one going straight in via xlr. That way you have the option of micing the amps up using a reamped Di signal. Hell i've seen producers use a pod mixed with a mic'd recording to really fill out the guitar sound.

How to di a guitar/ reamp it:

Di is pretty easy if you use the livewire Direct box, Set the pad to 0db run your guitar into the quarter inch and out from the xlr to the di of an interface of your choice. Make sure you get the hottest signal possible without clipping. the cool thing about the livewire box is it's got 2 i/o quarter inch jacks, so in for one can be out for the other, thus splitting the signal to an amp, or a pod or anything you want really. Your pod would be ideal for something like this.

It's wise to group the di and audio tracks together so when you're editing you use the audio track as reference and the di track gets the same edits.

i hope i don't sound like i'm rambling or have lost you yet, but the part you REALLY have to pay attention during is REAMPING. so you have your Di signal going out one of the outputs of your interface, set the fader in pro tools or whatever program you're using to 0 and keep the out volume at 0 as well. use a trs to xlr female from the interface to the di box and

SET THE DI BOX PAD TO -40DB this is so you don't destroy your amp

the reason you use the di box backwards has to do with impedance. your guitar is instrument level, your interface is line level, the di when in the set up properly keeps things at the right impedance and saves your gear from blowing up. there's more to it that i'm sure an electrician can tell you but for now that's all you really need to know.

mic up your amp the way you want it and press play :)