You can if you were mislead in the first place. When you sign up, they do not tell you what war really is. They tell you about glory and honour and Queen and country and terrorists and dictators, they don't tell you about DU and massacres and shoddy equipment and friends dying and bullying. People have serious misconceptions about the armed forces.

Yes yes, fine.

But if I ever joined the army to protect my country and then realised my job was to protect my leaders' money, I would desert like that (*Snaps fingers*).

[QUOTE]But if I ever joined the army to protect my country and then realised my job was to protect my leaders' money, I would desert like that (*Snaps fingers*).[/QUOTE]the job of the army isn't just to protect the country.

[QUOTE=coheneran]You can if you were mislead in the first place. When you sign up, they do not tell you what war really is. They tell you about glory and honour and Queen and country and terrorists and dictators, they don't tell you about DU and massacres and shoddy equipment and friends dying and bullying. People have serious misconceptions about the armed forces.[/QUOTE]

Right. So you being the smart kid you are know all about the horrors of the army, but all those that sign up are misled. Of course. Makes sense.

Anyone signing up thinking the army is about fun and dancing through the freshly liberated streets is an idiot. People sign up for the army fully informed of the fact that they will become a trained killer. They sign up for a minimum service time and under are obliged to fulfill their contract.

[QUOTE=PerpetualBurn]How can someone justify voluntarily joining the army and then expecting to become a conscientious objector when they don't like the politics involved?[/QUOTE]
Exactly...if you're a conscientious objector, you go about explaining that BEFORE getting drafted into an army (and if there's no draft, which there isn't, there's no need for anybody to declare themself a CO). Once you're in the army you've agreed that they own you for whatever period of time is specified. If you don't like it, you can desert or mutiny, but don't expect legal sanction.

[QUOTE=MegaPhony]From the point of view of the government, the Iraq War is protection against further events such as 9/11. So in a way, they are protecting the nation.[/QUOTE]

Iraq had nothing to do with any terrorist bombings during 9/11 nor were they any threat to either US or UK.

But I agree, if you sign up for military, you basically agree you'll go to war to die for your country, or to damage thousands of innocent foreigners' lives.

[quote]I don't like arguing with people who use the Stalinism argument against communism,[/quote]
Its a prefectly valid argument against Marxism though... The problem is people just don't understand what Communism is exactly...

[QUOTE]You can if you were mislead in the first place. When you sign up, they do not tell you what war really is. They tell you about glory and honour and Queen and country and terrorists and dictators, they don't tell you about DU and massacres and shoddy equipment and friends dying and bullying. People have serious misconceptions about the armed forces.
[/QUOTE]
somebody doesn't know any actual soldiers

[QUOTE=coheneran]Because the whole reason people join the army nowadays is to defend their country, and people can see Iraq has nowt to do with defence![/QUOTE]

Actually, the reason people sign up is to get paid. And the reason they get paid is for providing a service which co-incidentally happens to involve following orders and occasionally protecting the country. If you disobey orders, you're in breach of contract and when that could result in the deaths of other servicemen and women, it is well within reasonable bounds to consider it a criminal offence. The only time you're absolved of this obligation is when you know that carrying out orders will result in a breach of a treaty to which your nation is party.