[QUOTE=HaVIC5]The reason why you can play C Ionian (major) and D Dorian but not C dorian in that instance is because C Ionian and D Dorian have identical notes and imply a C major tonality - they are just arranged differently. C dorian both has different notes and implies a different tonality.

Think of it this way. Modes are just ways to rearrange the scale. In whatever order they're played, they will still all match the same tonal implication.[/QUOTE]
that works too... i'm not that great at explaining what i am thinking

[QUOTE=moghes69]in C major you would use a D dorian scale when the chord progression is on ii. modes are pretty much a way to make your solos and parts more tastefull than just sticking to a minor pentatonic or just the plain major scale of the key that you are in.[/QUOTE]

so, this II is part of the chord progression then?

Thanks for the info moghes and Havic

I'm still not completely sure on what the use of one is, and i'm guess the modes of the Ionian only apply if the song is written with a Major Tonality (does that make sense)

Sorry, I really don't know that much about this sorta thing.

So what would happen if the song isn't written in a Major Tonality?

[QUOTE=Phalanx]I've got a question on modes, i've been learning the scales of the C Major mode so i'm guessing they would all be the same if it was D Major or G Major etc? is that right?

My question is what the point in them is exactly, are they just a way of playing different scales in the same key, if the song was in the key of C Major, would I be able to play a D Dorian scale? why can't I play a C Dorian scale?

thanks[/QUOTE]

1: yeah they would all be the same the only thing that would change would be where the note starts

2: the point in modes is to give you more in key notes to work with in your songs

3: yes you would be able to do that

4: modes aply to the degrees of the scale. if you are playing in Cmaj the degrees would be CDEFGC first is ionian that applys to C. then theres DORIAN wich applys to D, and so on


.... so very very late

[QUOTE=moghes69]a chord is in inverted when a not other than the root is in the bass... the notes above the bass can be anywhere you desire... and as a tip, i suggest learning theory and applying it to the fretboard instead of learning it togeter. that'll make it easier in so many ways[/QUOTE]

.....

that doesnt really help.

i know what an inversion is .. im just wondering can i play the notes of that inversion anywhere id like

as long as the note that is supposed to be in the bass is

[QUOTE=Phalanx]so, this II is part of the chord progression then?

Thanks for the info moghes and Havic

I'm still not completely sure on what the use of one is, and i'm guess the modes of the Ionian only apply if the song is written with a Major Tonality (does that make sense)

Sorry, I really don't know that much about this sorta thing.

So what would happen if the song isn't written in a Major Tonality?[/QUOTE]
well if its in natural minor, that would be the same as playing in the aeolian mode so you would work from there deciding what modes to use

[QUOTE=muthafunkabass]i was doing this weird two-note run (on the D and G) yesterday. the pattern was "fifth-fifth-fifth-augmented fifth-augmented fifth-diminished fifth-fifth-fifth-augmented fifth-augmented fifth-diminshed fifth". and kept on doing that up and down the fretboard. then i added some tapping and slide harmonics and it created a pretty cool groove. if i add some touchstyle and some fingerstyle, i might be able to structure a song out of it.[/QUOTE]

I know what a plain old fifth is, but can you explain what augmented and diminshed are?

[QUOTE=chameleon13]I know what a plain old fifth is, but can you explain what augmented and diminshed are?[/QUOTE]
augmented 5th is a 5th that is raised one half step, and a diminished 5th is one that is lowered a half step.

[QUOTE=Left Shoe]augmented 5th is a 5th that is raised one half step, and a diminished 5th is one that is lowered a half step.[/QUOTE]
Just to expound on this, let me make this statement for this thread, since the old one got deleted.

In a scale, there are four perfect intervals, the unison, the fourth, the fifth and the octave. There are then four intervals that are qualified by being major or minor - the second, the third, the sixth and the seventh. Perfect intervals cannot be specified major or minor because in traditional, simple classical theory, they are found in both the major and minor keys.

When perfect intervals are altered, they are augmented (raised by a half step) or diminished (lowered by a half step). For example, a diminished 5th from G would be a Db and an augmented unison from A would be an A#. These terms can be used to describe non-perfect intervals also, albiet slightly different. Augmented non-perfect intervals are like augmented perfect intervals in that they are raised by one half-step. A common such interval is the augmented 9th (2nd), which, for example, for D would be an E#. Diminished non-perfect intervals, however, are flattened by a [i]whole[/i] step from the major interval. For example, in the key of C, the diminished 7th would be a Bbb (B double flat).

When people say chord progresions are like I, II, IV. Are those the notes from a scale, so in that one, would it be the first, second and fourth making up the chord progression?

[QUOTE=Phalanx]When people say chord progresions are like I, II, IV. Are those the notes from a scale, so in that one, would it be the first, second and fourth making up the chord progression?[/QUOTE]

They are the chords or arpeggios in a scale, starting on the note of the scale indicated by the number, yes.

I - II - IV in the key of C;

C - Dm - F

you dig?

[QUOTE=Phalanx]When people say chord progresions are like I, II, IV. Are those the notes from a scale, so in that one, would it be the first, second and fourth making up the chord progression?[/QUOTE]

those are the chords you play the scales over

[QUOTE=basgitarist]I - II - IV in the key of C;

C - Dm - F

you dig?[/QUOTE]

ok, but why would it be Dm and not D?

[QUOTE=Phalanx]ok, but why would it be Dm and not D?[/QUOTE]

Because there is no D major in the key of C

[QUOTE=Phalanx]ok, but why would it be Dm and not D?[/QUOTE]
because the ii chord of c maj is d f a and that is d minor

[QUOTE=Pukeboy66]those are the chords you play the scales over[/QUOTE]

That doesnt make any sense. Those are the chords you play, but you dont play scales over anything. You dont really play scales at all, they are supposed to be a way of organazing the fretboard so that it can be easily used without having to know every note of every key and where it is. Music is constructed and played with chords, not scales.

[QUOTE=Phalanx]ok, but why would it be Dm and not D?[/QUOTE]

The key of C major contains all natural notes;
C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C

Dmajor:
D - F# - A

there is no F# in the key of C, so it get's lower half a step making it Dminor:
D - F - A

:thumb:

a simple chord formula to remember this;
I - IIm - IIIm - IV - V - VIm - VIIdim - VIII

:thumb:

...and for the 7th chords it's...

Imaj7 IIm7 IIIm7 IVmaj7 V7 VIm7 VIIm7b5 (half-diminished seventh

[QUOTE=FenderJazz]That doesnt make any sense. Those are the chords you play, but you dont play scales over anything. You dont really play scales at all, they are supposed to be a way of organazing the fretboard so that it can be easily used without having to know every note of every key and where it is. Music is constructed and played with chords, not scales.[/QUOTE]

when i say scales .. i mean modes .......

[QUOTE=FenderJazz]That doesnt make any sense. Those are the chords you play, but you dont play scales over anything. You dont really play scales at all, they are supposed to be a way of organazing the fretboard so that it can be easily used without having to know every note of every key and where it is. Music is constructed and played with chords, not scales.[/QUOTE]
A chord usually consists of three, four or maybe five notes. The purpose of a chord is to provide harmony and imply scalar melody for a given situation. I'm not quite sure where you got that notion from, because otherwise, how would you explain scalar artforms like modal jazz?

[QUOTE=HaVIC5]A chord usually consists of three, four or maybe five notes. The purpose of a chord is to provide harmony and imply scalar melody for a given situation. I'm not quite sure where you got that notion from, because otherwise, how would you explain scalar artforms like modal jazz?[/QUOTE]

I dont want to argue with you, or anything like that because you clearly know more than me (give me a couple more years) but MOST music atleast is based on chords, which is why chord symbols are usually placed over sheet music measures. Im not talking about actual chords and the playing of all of the chord's notes simmultaneously, but instead Im talking about the chord as a musical unit... or whatnot.

[QUOTE=FenderJazz]I dont want to argue with you, or anything like that because you clearly know more than me (give me a couple more years) but MOST music atleast is based on chords, which is why chord symbols are usually placed over sheet music measures. Im not talking about actual chords and the playing of all of the chord's notes simmultaneously, but instead Im talking about the chord as a musical unit... or whatnot.[/QUOTE]
and those chords are based around scales (modes) example a dominant seven chord is based around the mixolydian mode.

[QUOTE=moghes69]and those chords are based around scales (modes) example a dominant seven chord is based around the mixolydian mode.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I know. Chords are derived from scale degrees, but the important things here are chords, not scales. You dont play scales, you use them to know what chords are in the key that your playing in. That was the point.

Oh, and there are dominant seven chords in every mode..

[QUOTE=FenderJazz]I dont want to argue with you, or anything like that because you clearly know more than me (give me a couple more years) but MOST music atleast is based on chords, which is why chord symbols are usually placed over sheet music measures. Im not talking about actual chords and the playing of all of the chord's notes simmultaneously, but instead Im talking about the chord as a musical unit... or whatnot.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that most music is based upon chords, but you're confusing the fuction of a chord to the function of a scale. Chords provide harmony and imply melody in the form of scales. Each has their own purpose.

[QUOTE=HaVIC5]I'm not saying that most music is based upon chords, but you're confusing the fuction of a chord to the function of a scale. Chords provide harmony and imply melody in the form of scales. Each has their own purpose.[/QUOTE]

Did you mean to say "Im not saying that most music isn't based upon chords?" If so, then I think I get what your saying, and I agree. I have all these concepts down, I just have trouble trying to get across what Im trying to say in this situation, and also in understanding what your trying to say.

I don't know
 

Would tunings be a type of theory? Or would theory be on the topic of chord progressions and such?

[QUOTE=xbmunky]Would tunings be a type of theory? Or would theory be on the topic of chord progressions and such?[/QUOTE]
tunings would just be for the ease of reaching certain notes in a pattern you play, or to reach some notes that you wouldn't otherwise be able to. the theory stays the same if you are in drop d or in normal tuning.

The theory stays exactly the same G major is G major. The appliance however changes.
Take for example this G major scale. In normal tuning it would be played like this;

[FONT="Courier New"]G|-----------------|
D|-----------2-4-5-|
A|-----2-3-5-------|
E|-3-5-------------|[/FONT]

If you would lower your 4th-String by a whole step, you would play the same scale like this. Same notes, different patterns.

[FONT="Courier New"]G|-----------------|
D|-----------2-4-5-|
A|-----2-3-5-------|
D|-5-7-------------|[/FONT]

:thumb:

hi
 

can some please tell me how u play and scales eg
|--2--|-----|--3--|--4--| -1st string
|--6--|-----|--1--|-----|
|--3--|--4--|--5--|-----|
|--1--|-----|-----|--2--| -4th string
do u play 2 6 3 1 4 5 1 3 or what
and when using them to create do u follow the pattern and change the notes or use the notes and the pattern doesnt matter? im a noob btw if u didnt guess

[QUOTE=Raz-The-Bass]can some please tell me how u play and scales eg
|--2--|-----|--3--|--4--| -1st string
|--6--|-----|--1--|-----|
|--3--|--4--|--5--|-----|
|--1--|-----|-----|--2--| -4th string
do u play 2 6 3 1 4 5 1 3 or what
and when using them to create do u follow the pattern and change the notes or use the notes and the pattern doesnt matter? im a noob btw if u didnt guess[/QUOTE]

hi, I love noobs like myself. If I understand what you are saying, you want to keep the notes the same and change the order in which you play them. I don't get what your tabs are supposed to mean, though. I like the G Major tabs from a couple posts up:

G|-----------------|
D|-----------2-4-5-|
A|-----2-3-5-------|
E|-3-5-------------|

This is one octave (the basic octave for a bassist) of the G Major scale. you can play any combination of those notes and still be in the scale, however chords and stuff (one of my noobish areas) allow you to play other stuff and still sound good, and to get different sounds.

hope that made sense, helped, and was right.

thanks and so the shapes dont matter right u just play those notes in any order ?

im not sure i have the right scales could some 1 post the blues scale for me plaese

G blues minor scale

l--------------------l
l------------ --3-5--l
l------3-4-5---------l
l--3-6---------------l

thanks man anyone got a blues in D

just shift that pattern up a string and start on the fifth fret

i c so u dont have to change the notes just move up or down the fretboard thanks:)

don t spose i can b cheaky and ask for the pentatonic and major scales
please

pentatonic minor is the same as the blues minor just without the 4th note in ghe case of G you would omit the 4th fret on the A string

c major

l------------2-4-5-l
l-----2-3-5--------l
l-3-5--------------l
l------------------l

[QUOTE=moghes69]pentatonic minor is the same as the blues minor just without the 4th note in ghe case of G you would omit the 4th fret on the A string[/QUOTE]
if you could do me a favor and speak in the alphabet rather than frets. i'm having a hard time following what you're talking about:thumb: