The Scene
 

I thought about putting this in Punk and/or Hardcore, but I decided that at the core it would be best received here. I may repost it in another forum after I see how discussion goes here.

So, this is where I rant about the state of the scene, basically. I personally hate the modern day scene. I believe children coming into it have corrupted the nature of the scene and basically changed the meaning entirely in an entirely bad way.

The scene used to be a collection of diverse people united by their love of music, their choice of lifestyle and their beliefs. It didn't matter what you looked like, or what your social status was, everyone was friendly to one another and there was a sense of unity among all members of the scene.

Now that has been flipped around almost 180 degrees. It doesn't matter what you believe, and frankly most people don't even believe in anything. You don't have to like the music anymore, you just have to look like everyone else. The unity of ideals and the love of music is gone, to be replaced with a unity of appearances and in my experience, love of acting like a complete douche.

I've been to several shows where I overhear scenesters admitting they don't like the band that's playing, or don't even know who's playing. I love the band I'm coming to see, and they're coming to see a band to preserve their image. I can't unify myself with that.

Since when should appearance even matter? Who cares what you look like? An individual isn't made by what he looks like, an individual is made by how he thinks. The scene used to be full of individuals, sure they all loved the music, and shared ideals, but they didn't share ideals because the scene supported those ideals, they supported them because they believed in them.

Most kids in the scene nowadays aren't even old enough to care. Sure they jump on the anti-Bush bandwagon, but they really haven't even thought about it. Everyone in the scene now just conforms to non-conformity. Breaking the mold in the exact same way every other scenester does, listening to (or claiming to at least) the exact same bands, getting a crappy haircut, dying their hair, throwing on random mismatched clothing, and none of it matters. Who cares about any of that?

I personally cannot identify with the scene anymore. I can't stand the people I am sharing audience space with, I wish I felt a unity like I used to be able to, but now the only unity is a false one generated by people looking the same and acting the same. The anti-thesis of what the scene used to represent. At one time the scene was unified diversity, and now the scene is simply fake, on-the-surface unity.

Well, that's not entirely true. The scene is now socially united, it's full of privileged middle class suburban children looking for an identity and then stealing this one because it's convenient. There was a time when the poor and middle classes mixed in the scene. Now that you can only be part of the scene if you shop at Hot Topic the poorer classes have been thrust from the scene.

Anyways I'm ranting enough, my question to you is, how do you feel about this? Do you feel like you're part of the scene? DO you think it has changed for better or worse? Do you remember the scene before it became all about image? Anything else you want to discuss is welcome too.

tl;dr

I used fancy mx talk. Honestly I hate the word scene. People always say the hardcore scene this the indie scene that. I think it's a load of bull****. Maybe back in the day when there was a group of people making new music and exploring and creating new music like the early DC heads like Ian Mackaye and Henry Rollins. Other than that I am not part of a scene and no one is in my opinion. Sure people listen to music, go to the local show, wank over the local bands but I don't think that makes you part of a scene, just a fan of music.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]The scene used to be a collection of diverse people united by their love of music, their choice of lifestyle and their beliefs. It didn't matter what you looked like, or what your social status was, everyone was friendly to one another and there was a sense of unity among all members of the scene. [/QUOTE]

Do you personally remember this? Because I sure don't.

Honestly as far as I can tell, every musical movement's just been a sham because deep down you're never going to admit that people like music in the same way you do, or as much as you do.

Also, something I've noticed is that every music fan is a complete fag[size=2]g[/size]ot, so generally I try not to associate with them anyways and just do my own thang, it's a lot easier.

[QUOTE=Excursions]tl;dr

I used fancy mx talk. Honestly I hate the word scene. People always say the hardcore scene this the indie scene that. I think it's a load of bull****. Maybe back in the day when there was a group of people making new music and exploring and creating new music like the early DC heads like Ian Mackaye and Henry Rollins. Other than that I am not part of a scene and no one is in my opinion. Sure people listen to music, go to the local show, wank over the local bands but I don't think that makes you part of a scene, just a fan of music.[/QUOTE]
I use scene to mean the trendy "myspace" scene if that wasn't obvious. But why does not sharing a love of a certain type of music make you part of a scene? Sure you can divorce yourself from it, but the opportunity is there as well.
[QUOTE=PDWAB]Do you personally remember this? Because I sure don't.

Honestly as far as I can tell, every musical movement's just been a sham because deep down you're never going to admit that people like music in the same way you do, or as much as you do.

Also, something I've noticed is that every music fan is a complete fag[size=2]g[/size]ot, so generally I try not to associate with them anyways and just do my own thang, it's a lot easier.[/QUOTE]
I do. I still experience it to a degree. I work with/have in the past worked with many musicians who are unified through their love of music and share the same political ideologies etc. In fact the scene I was familiar with through my job was one of the most diverse, but unified I've ever had the luck to be part of.

There's a difference between not wanting to admit people like music as much as you, and people outright saying they don't like the band they're paying money to see.

That's just because you listen to bad music dear :-*

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]I do. I still experience it to a degree. I work with/have in the past worked with many musicians who are unified through their love of music and share the same political ideologies etc. In fact the scene I was familiar with through my job was one of the most diverse, but unified I've ever had the luck to be part of.

There's a difference between not wanting to admit people like music as much as you, and people outright saying they don't like the band they're paying money to see.

That's just because you listen to bad music dear :-*[/QUOTE]

That's interesting because as far as I've been able to tell most scenes that combine music with actual progress and political idealism just result in a whole bunch of bullsh[size=2]i[/size]t from people that don't really know what they're talking about. Again, that's just what studying the various countercultures in the 60s and 70s said to me, so your own experience might be a little different.

People just like hanging out, and all ages shows are pretty decent for that. It's their money, not yours.

Mr. "I like everything as long as it's rock" strikes again!

[QUOTE=PDWAB]That's interesting because as far as I've been able to tell most scenes that combine music with actual progress and political idealism just result in a whole bunch of bullsh[size=2]i[/size]t from people that don't really know what they're talking about. Again, that's just what studying the various countercultures in the 60s and 70s said to me, so your own experience might be a little different.

People just like hanging out, and all ages shows are pretty decent for that. It's their money, not yours.

Mr. "I like everything as long as it's rock" strikes again![/QUOTE]
What about the original Punk culture? Hippies started out well but as soon as it became a large trend that problem plagued the movement. I think that's common to any movement though. Once it becomes large enough, people don't know what they're fighting for.

I just have an aversion to spending time listening to music I love, while the kid next to me hates the band and is only there because his friends are going to be there.

/me puts on some Schubert to spite you

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]What about the original Punk culture? Hippies started out well but as soon as it became a large trend that problem plagued the movement. I think that's common to any movement though. Once it becomes large enough, people don't know what they're fighting for.

I just have an aversion to spending time listening to music I love, while the kid next to me hates the band and is only there because his friends are going to be there.

/me puts on some Schubert to spite you[/QUOTE]

What about the original Punk culture? The earliest parts of it were just people trying to play rock and roll, they weren't trying to change the world. As soon as it moved past that it became a sham. The hippies were full of it too, they only thought they were smart because they used so many drugs.

Eh, that's life. I honestly wouldn't let it bother me, because it's honestly not that big of a deal.

Well well well, if it isn't Mr. "I have some classical stuff so I can pretend to like it and discuss the virtures of the Romantic period and sound smart"

[QUOTE=PDWAB]What about the original Punk culture? The earliest parts of it were just people trying to play rock and roll, they weren't trying to change the world. As soon as it moved past that it became a sham. The hippies were full of it too, they only thought they were smart because they used so many drugs.

Eh, that's life. I honestly wouldn't let it bother me, because it's honestly not that big of a deal.

Well well well, if it isn't Mr. "I have some classical stuff so I can pretend to like it and discuss the virtures of the Romantic period and sound smart"[/QUOTE]
Exactly. It's not about trying to change anything, it's about just being yourself. Nowadays that sense of individual is what has died. Back then they did what they want, and sometimes it meshed with what other people were doing and sometimes it didn't. The only progressive idea being pushed forward was the individual ideology, but it was the most important one.

To you :p I don't know, shows aren't as fun if everyone doesn't dig the music, you know?

I do like Classical :-\ I actually prefer the Baroque I think, but I don't recal what era it all is, I just put on what I like. I could also put on some Flamenco if that suits you better. Incredible music. :)

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Exactly. It's not about trying to change anything, it's about just being yourself. Nowadays that sense of individual is what has died. Back then they did what they want, and sometimes it meshed with what other people were doing and sometimes it didn't. The only progressive idea being pushed forward was the individual ideology, but it was the most important one.

To you :p I don't know, shows aren't as fun if everyone doesn't dig the music, you know?

I do like Classical :-\ I actually prefer the Baroque I think, but I don't recal what era it all is, I just put on what I like. I could also put on some Flamenco if that suits you better. Incredible music. :)[/QUOTE]

If the individual is so important, then what's the point of the scene?

It's true, the best shows are when everyone is enjoying the music, but that doesn't always happen. Make a thread about it... whoops.

See now you're just trying too hard.

Also this thread looks hella schizophrenic.

People bash me here for liking the music I like, to no fault of my own.

[QUOTE=PDWAB]If the individual is so important, then what's the point of the scene?

It's true, the best shows are when everyone is enjoying the music, but that doesn't always happen. Make a thread about it... whoops.

See now you're just trying too hard.

Also this thread looks hella schizophrenic.[/QUOTE]
Finding other individuals like yourself. The point is to get to where you want to be, and then find other people you connect with.

*shrug* Close it if you dont think it's providing good discussion. I mainly made it because I'm in a bad mood so I wanted something to debate, I'm not going to lie. :)

I can't win :(

I know, change your avatar nub :-\

Adam: Which music? Most of the time when I make fun it's joking, I hope you know that :-\

Eh, I don't care. I'd like to see what other people think, I am kind of a jerk about these things anyways because I really can't stand music fans.

People seem to have a problem with me liking Kelly Clarkson and having a Black Flag avatar.

Vince: Not you.

Hell fu[SIZE="2"]c[/SIZE]king yeah PDWAB. I'm only 20 and I see what you're seeing. However I still think there's hope. I just went to Fall Fest yesterday to see Bad Religion headline, and while there were a lot of stupid people, by the end of the day it was the true, unified diehards for the mostpart that were left. I totally agree with what you said. I'll probably post my own rant later when I have more time.

I didnt read the majority of that, i will later, bu i must say i do realy hate the scene atm. Well the kids, some of the bands are ok i guess.

I've gotten so sick of hearing about the scene I just don't notice it anymore, like Hollywood movies and Big Brother. It just flies by me.

People complaining about dress codes, discussing the number of Myspace comments they got for their latest picture and how they "stole someone's comment virginity". It's ridiculous sometimes, and has gotten to the point where the scene is just a group of people who decide on incoming trends and music for everyone else to love.

I think one reason for this however is the over-exposure of talentless bands. OK, talentless might be a bit harsh, but unoriginal definately. Purevolume and Myspace have opened the window for homegrown bands to advertise, even though a lot just sound like their favourite bands. I do it, my music sounds similar to bands. Not necessarily my favourite ones, but bands that inspire me to write music, their traits are certainly in the music I write.

And of course, it's the bands that set these fashions. You get bands like My American Heart, Funeral For A Friend, Bullet For My Valentine, Senses Fail. They all look similar, with black band tees/clothing company tees with pictures of bleeding hearts and whatnot. Tight jeans and Converse shoes.

Like I said, I don't like discussing the scene because to me it's pretty non-existent. I listen to music I love, dress how I want to dress and act like I want to act. Of course, it's not completely my own because we are all influenced by the media and things like websites, our friends telling us about bands and stuff. I think that's the reason I don't like talking about the scene, because I don't want to get sucked into a lifestyle I don't want to live in.

I don't care about the "scene". I don't even know if there's a scene, all I know is I go to the shows I want, just because it's good fun.

And if I go to a show I might not love it's because a friend asked me to go with him and because even if I don't love it I like to dance to da music.

Its true, when I started into "The Scene", there was about 12 of us in my area, and none of us looked the same as each[i]other[/i] let alone the other kids. Now I walk around, and being "Different" or "Alternative", is the new cool thing, and if everyones doing it, how can it be different?

I gave up caring a long time ago. I still wear the clothes I always wore, I continue to like the bands I liked before half these kids could even spell. It dosn't bother me anymore.

[QUOTE=albert_bass]I don't care about the "scene". I don't even know if there's a scene, all I know is I go to the shows I want, just because it's good fun.

And if I go to a show I might not love it's because a friend asked me to go with him and because even if I don't love it I like to dance to da music.[/QUOTE]
If you want to see the scene in all its wrath, go to the millenium gardens in manchester, on a saterday, AKA, THE UBRIS!!

I know its a bit of a treck for you.

There is no scene here.

Well, kinda but they are all gay and i don't mix with them really...

In the end it's just a craze (I'm not saying fad, it's a stupid word). There was that skater craze that hit a while back, and accompanying that was the goth craze. Both are pretty extinct now, so all we have to do is wait for these bands to go out of fashion.

Id rather have a skater craze, after all, people look a whole lot hotter like that, insted of everyone in stupid tight shirts and pants, and stupid hair cuts. One of the reasons im dying my hair brown is cause im sick to the back teeth of being called scene.

I've been called emo and scene quite a bit, but only from people who I know and try to bunch me into the group, and because of my FOB "You are SO scene" shirt.

I don't mind that much, but it bugs me when people call themselves scene or emo, especially if they are my friends. I don't feel like explaining with emo is to people who believe Bullet For My Valentine is hardcore.

I agree with everything said. It seems the heart of the music scene in general these days is hating George Bush and wearing tight trousers.

I'm not gonna lie, i wear drainpipes. Why? Because i like them. I don't hand around with stereotypical emo people, i don't go to scene gigs when i don't even know the band, i try to listen to everything.

I think that one exception of the whole scene thing is in extreme metal of some kinds. I went to an Arcturus show and met so many people, it was so cool.

Soon it's going to get to the stage where I go to gigs just for the support bands. God knows The Fall Of Troy are the only reason I will sit through Fear Before The March Of Flames.

[QUOTE=Kif]Soon it's going to get to the stage where I go to gigs just for the support bands. God knows The Fall Of Troy are the only reason I will sit through Fear Before The March Of Flames.[/QUOTE]
Ive done that before, im going P!ATD to see TAI...

[QUOTE=Kif]Soon it's going to get to the stage where I go to gigs just for the support bands. God knows The Fall Of Troy are the only reason I will sit through Fear Before The March Of Flames.[/QUOTE]
I went to an MCR show to see Alk3 :-\

We left in the middle of MCR's set.

I go to loads of punk shows to see bands like Freaks Union and SMP support.

I agree with everything you say, it's annoying to get to school and people telling me i'm a metal head because i appeared it. I mean 'what', 1. i dont. 2. i like prog metal, nothing to do with all the other crap that's around. 3. you're an idiot.

There are too many people judging these days, judging on first impressions, not caring about what they believe and want inside, it's all about the appearance, looking cool if you hang around with people who look cool. I resent all this.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]
I've been to several shows where I overhear scenesters admitting they don't like the band that's playing, or don't even know who's playing. I love the band I'm coming to see, and they're coming to see a band to preserve their image. I can't unify myself with that.
.[/QUOTE]

You can't gripe about this. It's perfectly valid, regardless of who you are.

The first gig I ever went to was Boxcar Racer/New Found Glory/Throne.

I had idea who the **** Throne was. I didn't particularly like them either, they didn't even have a bassist. I told my sister this, outloud, during the show. Does that mean a I'm a horrible scene child destroying all that you know and love? No, it means that I don't know the band that's playing.

Did you know that some people enjoy going to shows? You don't have to know a band to enjoy a show, and just because you ended up not enjoying the band doesn't mean you're a bad person. I walked around at Warped Tour last year and when I saw a band I'd never heard of, I'd go over and listen.

I like to listen to new music. I may not end up liking it, but for 12$ I'll check out 4 new bands.

-

There is no scene where I live. There are two stereotypical psuedo-scene kids, though. One silly fake goth chick who calls herself mature all the time, and listens to MCR and Atreyu. Another is a self-proclaimed emo kid who loves Death Cab For Cutie. He knows who Rites Of Spring are, so I talk **** about him though.

And then there's me. I listen to heavy **** at school, and moderate-to-light stuff at home. That's how I roll. No one cares.

(I don't have much to add to this discussion :( )

There are loads of people i know, who claim they like a certain type of music, yet they only like for example one commercialised band of that genre, and probably loads of other bands, of different genres, that they've only heard on the radio, and they have ipods and they think they're the best music fans.

There's nothing wrong with liking different genres, of course not, because having a diverse taste in music is better than being a narrowminded faggot. But if you're going to harp on about a specific genre, at least have the decency to check out different bands of that genre, the bands that are probably much better than the ones they listen to already. And i know they do have the facilities to do it, but they just don't, because they're a bunch of posers. One of them actually asked me to tell her how to look more emo, i slapped her round the face of course.

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]You can't gripe about this. It's perfectly valid, regardless of who you are.
[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between not knowing a band, and actively disliking them.

"Who is playing this show?"
"Such and such bands"
"Oh, man they suck."

I've been to shows with conversations almost exactly like that.

[QUOTE=firecrackercheese]There are loads of people i know, who claim they like a certain type of music, yet they only like for example one commercialised band of that genre, and probably loads of other bands, of different genres, that they've only heard on the radio, and they have ipods and they think they're the best music fans.

There's nothing wrong with liking different genres, of course not, because having a diverse taste in music is better than being a narrowminded large bundle of sticks. [B]But if you're going to harp on about a specific genre, at least have the decency to check out different bands of that genre, the bands that are probably much better than the ones they listen to already.[/B] And i know they do have the facilities to do it, but they just don't, because they're a bunch of posers. One of them actually asked me to tell her how to look more emo, i slapped her round the face of course.[/QUOTE]


Why should they? If they aren't doing it, it's obviously because they don't want to. Why does it matter to you if people say they like a genre yet they only like a few bands?

To make them seem cool to [I]you[/I]?

Here's how it's become:

There's the mainstream people. Watch MTV, listen to pop music and what not, etc.

Then there's the scene kids. These are the non conformist people who are all the same. The one's we're bitching about now.

And then there's a uber scene kids. Us. The kids bitching about the scene kids not being scene enough, not liking enough music in a certain genre, not doing the things at shows that we'd like them to, or buying into fads and what not. Couldn't this be considered how the scene kids treat mainstream people?

That's all we are, just another group. No better, no worse. Stop your bitching, everyone.

-

And for the record, I love ska, I just don't listen to much of it. Just Big D and Bandits Of The Acoustic Revolution, generally. Although I'll skank out to Keasby Nights every so often.

There's nothing wrong with that at all.

Jons the daddy.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]There's a difference between not knowing a band, and actively disliking them.

"Who is playing this show?"
"Such and such bands"
"Oh, man they suck."

I've been to shows with conversations almost exactly like that.[/QUOTE]

So what? It's good for the band - they get paid whether people enjoy them or not. I'd rather a band prosper because people are stupid than a band suffer because it pisses you off to overhear someone's conversation.

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]So what? It's good for the band - they get paid whether people enjoy them or not. I'd rather a band prosper because people are stupid than a band suffer because it pisses you off to overhear someone's conversation.[/QUOTE]
Usually that's how I think of it, but I'm prone to bouts of anger at it all. (For instance this thread) Either way, I'm allowed to be mad so quiet nig :mad:

(:-*)

The music scene has for the most part become more about the fashion than the music, and that really sucks.

A lot of these kids who dress the part and don't know the music are the same ones who go to shows and really don't know what they're doing. They're the ones who have no pit etiquette, and who truly serve no positive purpose in the scene. It gets kind of annoying after a while.

I think I'm the only person ever who goes to shows just for music.

I avoid the pit as much as possible. I don't want to worry about being punched the face, or even unintentionally getting pushed while I'll I'm trying to enjoy music.

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]I think I'm the only person ever who goes to shows just for music.

I avoid the pit as much as possible. I don't want to worry about being punched the face, or even unintentionally getting pushed while I'll I'm trying to enjoy music.[/QUOTE]
I think you'll find, that me and my mates just stant at the back of the pit and listens to the music, im sure kif can vouce for me on this because he walked past me doing such a think, I think.

I've seen plenty of bands I don't like at shows, and a few of those I've spent at the back because I don't feel like volunterily getting my lungs collapsed against the railing and a few hundred kids. Jimmy Eat World was a good example. My friend was in the pit, right near the front, and I was at the back enjoying the show with a drink. You can't really mosh to Jimmy Eat World, so I thought I'd enjoy listening to it from the back.

It depends on the band. I'm going to Taste Of Chaos for Reggie And The Full Effect. That's it. But I'll gladly watch the other bands, maybe get into the pit for one if they are good live.
[QUOTE=Untitled]I think you'll find, that me and my mates just stant at the back of the pit and listens to the music, im sure kif can vouce for me on this because he walked past me doing such a think, I think.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think I saw you, I'm not sure. I don't even know if I know what you look like. Either way, I hung out at the back for Pennywise near the end. "Bro Hymn" was mental that night, and the pit was just insane.